John Aloisi

[natalie182]

If I remember correctly, he said ADP is costing $3 million a season, but the club is still losing $6 million a season. Something like that.

[biancorosso7]

I want to know how they justify ADP is losing Sydney money also. Direct cost for ADP vs what? Attendance?

 

Without Sydney's account book, would have to imagine it is something like this:

 

ADP = minus $3 million

plus     other peripheral contract requirements (if any)

plus     rebranding of marketing and associated costs (if any)

 

Less,

 

-     increase in ticket sales (if any) less extra stadium costs (if any)

-     increase in merchandise sales (if any) less production costs and shipping etc (if any)

-     increase in ADP related sponsorship

-     media/3rd party payments/miscellaneous

 

EQUALS still a loss?

 

Again, speculation entirely. Depends on Sydney's account book and their expectations.

[biancorosso7]

If I remember correctly, he said ADP is costing $3 million a season, but the club is still losing $6 million a season. Something like that.

 

I believe this figure included all other expenses, i.e. Neill, Griffiths etc.

[Kiro Kompiro]

Not sure where this $3 mill figure comes from.  ADP has been widely reported to cost around the $2 million mark per season.

 

According to this site http://www.ultimatealeague.com/records.php?type=att&season=2012-13 SFC's attendance average has gone from about 12,000 last season to 18,000 this season. Extra 6000@$25 each@13 home games is about $2 million.  The guy pays for himself.

 

Increased sponsorship, shirt sales, brand awareness- whats all this worth?

 

If they are still losing money, then its because they are inept at running the club, (which is not something new to them).  Now imagine if they had a board with a clue to appoint a decent coach, and recruit some decent players?

 

If we spend $1 mill on a marquee and get average up by another 3,000 @$25 then that covers his wage. Plus we get an extra derby and-I'm ready to be flogged-sell the game to Etihad so we get an attendance of 45,000 and we can make 300k more just out of this one game.

[Melburnian]

I'm with Kiro.

This is what I was getting at. Attendances are up, from what I believe sponsorship is up all due to ADP.

What Sydney are doing with the other factors of their business is not a direct link with ADP. For Munn to say the club is losing $6 million and ADP cost $3 million therefor its not worth it is a fallacy.

There is direct association with ADP and indirect association. Sydney are running their business badly, but ADP has proven to be a remarkable success.

I have deep concerns for our club with thinking like this from Munn.

If we get a Marquee that brings in 6,000 extra people a game we would be celebrating.

[mulhollanddrive]

The lack of ambition of the club since JVS left is worrying.

[biancorosso7]

Not sure where this $3 mill figure comes from.  ADP has been widely reported to cost around the $2 million mark per season.

 

According to this site http://www.ultimatealeague.com/records.php?type=att&season=2012-13 SFC's attendance average has gone from about 12,000 last season to 18,000 this season. Extra 6000@$25 each@13 home games is about $2 million.  The guy pays for himself.

 

Increased sponsorship, shirt sales, brand awareness- whats all this worth?

 

If they are still losing money, then its because they are inept at running the club, (which is not something new to them).  Now imagine if they had a board with a clue to appoint a decent coach, and recruit some decent players?

 

If we spend $1 mill on a marquee and get average up by another 3,000 @$25 then that covers his wage. Plus we get an extra derby and-I'm ready to be flogged-sell the game to Etihad so we get an attendance of 45,000 and we can make 300k more just out of this one game.

 

The $3million dollar figure comes from Scott Munn and John Aloisi and what their knowledge and understanding of the ADP deal and its worth.

 

It's important to remember that just because a ticket is $25, doesn't mean the club gets the whole $25. Plus, there would be extra operating costs for the venues which need to be paid.

 

I certainly would like a marquee at our Club, and I think we will get one. Do I think it will be an "ADP" marquee? No.

[dazman]

He basically said that they've discussed it, and gave the example of ADP, that they are still losing money because of him, and we can't afford to do that. He said that we will only be getting a marquee if its the perfect person and we will be guaranteed not to lose money by getting them. He didn't straight out say it won't happen, but I can't see that this perfect marquee actually exists.

so what the hell happened to Heart supposedly vowing to sign a marquee player a few weeks ago? Have they backflipped that quickly?  My god this is a joke...

[Jake]

Scott said in the after match function that he didn't say that personally. I think it was Sidwell that made that statement.

[dazman]

Scott said in the after match function that he didn't say that personally. I think it was Sidwell that made that statement.

Ah, i see.  But in that case it shows dysfunctionality within the club

[dazman]

aaand back on topic - aloisi has another 2 years to run on his contract, so unfortunately i doubt he'll be sacked cos its too expensive.  but i think some people here have mentioned a 'reshuffle'.  would the club be able to employ a new manager, whilst 'reshuffling' aloisi into an assisstant role to see out his contract like what Roar did with Vidosic?  I reckon that'd be the best outcome .

[jw1739]

Scott said in the after match function that he didn't say that personally. I think it was Sidwell that made that statement.

Look at the OP in the 'Our Marquee Man' thread...the statement was made by Peter Sidwell.

 

Munn would appear to be at odds with his Chairman on this issue.

[HEARTinator]

From SMH on March 1, 2013

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/football/flexible-cap-is-a-lesson-in-global-soccernomics-20130301-2fbjo.html

 

"The world game challenges Australia's geographical parochialism. Del Piero is Italian, as was most of the crowd at Crown. Globalism also explains the bizarre nature of A-League economics. Sydney FC's purchase of Brett Emerton, Del Piero and Lucas Neill was part bankrolled by $500,000 from the Football Federation Australia. Sydney FC's salary bill is $7 million. Heart's is $2.6 million.

 

The FFA assisted the Western Sydney Wanderers by allowing them seven overseas players, two more than the regulation five. A system of "marquee", "local marquee", "guest" and "visa" players is used to justify the A-League's flexibility with its salary cap and imports. In fact, we are entitled to wonder if the creative crowd-counters who once worked at NRL stadiums are now employed at FFA headquarters."

 

Both WSW and SydneyFC have been given a helping hand by FFA to land extra players in one case, and marquee signings for SFC (as if they needed the money with their Russian millionaire owner - gosh). So SFC has an annual wages bill of 2.5 times HeartFC. ADP wages is probably a combination of SFC directly (extra crowds helps), sale of shirts etc, ADP's extra sponsorship deals and maybe Foxtel (?). The bloke has just about paid for himself it's the other ~$5M per year that SFC have to find to fund Emo, etc. Maybe Munn is confused

 

I recommend you read the SMH article.

[MrAiDaN66]

LOL coming from a rugby league columnist

[HEARTinator]

Yeah, his numbers are what we've heard elsewhere but it's his take on the FFA's handling of Sydney based clubs compared to Melbourne that's interesting  - and particularly from what I see little assistance given to HeartFC compared to the easy ride that WSW have had and the extra $$$$ handed over to SFC for marquee signings. Now how about handing over some $$$$ to us FFA HQ !!

Edited March 18, 2013 by HEARTinator

[jw1739]

There are a lot of things that people ought to read.

 

WSW owned lock stock and barrel by FFA - http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/western-sydney-team-confirmed-for-a-league-in-2012-2013-federal-government-pledges-8-million/story-e6frf4gl-1226318691212#.UUbt9RfTxDQ

 

SFC's owner David Traktovenko - http://www.rumafia.com/person.php?id=1876

 

Brisbane Roar owned by Indonesia's Bakrie Group (70%) and FFA (30%) - http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/bakries-snap-up-a-league-champion/470314

[Red or Dead]

There are a lot of things that people ought to read.

 

WSW owned lock stock and barrel by FFA - http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/western-sydney-team-confirmed-for-a-league-in-2012-2013-federal-government-pledges-8-million/story-e6frf4gl-1226318691212#.UUbt9RfTxDQ

 

SFC's owner David Traktovenko - http://www.rumafia.com/person.php?id=1876

 

Brisbane Roar owned by Indonesia's Bakrie Group (70%) and FFA (30%) - http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/bakries-snap-up-a-league-champion/470314

David Tranktovenko "In 2011 his wealth was estimated at $ 550 million." - like he cares if he doesn't get his ADP investment back, Del Piero is playing at his club!!

[YFC]

Few things right on point from Scott Munn last night post match:

 

• JA will be there next season.
•  
• There were 5 objectives from the Board upon foundation:
• 1) Financial stability
• 2) Youth player promotion and development
• 3) Training facility base at La Trobe
• 4) NYL and W-League side
• 5) Promotion of young and promising coaches
•  
• The Board are also keen to get a marquee for the right price. But it was specifically stated that the Board would not and could not operate like Sydney FC at a $6 mill loss each year. 

 

The spill of a board and/or key personnel would not help the club in anyway at all. 

Nothing about winning titles?

[tachycardia]

Few things right on point from Scott Munn last night post match:

 

• JA will be there next season.
•  
• There were 5 objectives from the Board upon foundation:
• 1) Financial stability
• 2) Youth player promotion and development
• 3) Training facility base at La Trobe
• 4) NYL and W-League side
• 5) Promotion of young and promising coaches
•  
• The Board are also keen to get a marquee for the right price. But it was specifically stated that the Board would not and could not operate like Sydney FC at a $6 mill loss each year. 

 

The spill of a board and/or key personnel would not help the club in anyway at all. 

Nothing about winning titles?

 

The aim of the board is to run a football club, not a football team.

 

Those in charge want a stable club, of course they want success, but at this stage, what good is a title if the club folds in 3 years because it over reached?

 

The titles come when there is stability at the top - and the original objectives have been met.

[moops]

Very true tachycardia.

I have been reading about youth development and came across a great source of information

http://www.ecaeurope.com/Global/Research/ECA%20Report%20on%20Youth%20Academies.pdf

There is the link if anyone want to read.

While I think an accadamy would be awesome, it's not the point I want to make. It's all well and good having objectives, but there must be plans implemented for them to become reality.

Take Ajax, they have objectives in developing quick, technical players and have plans and assesments down to the pedantic to suit the way they want to play.

Now the list of objectives given by the heart board are very basic and generalised and I do not need to know everything down to the nth degree, but i do hope they have more than that, as I am sure they do. But Just like the game of football, you don't just chuck 11 players on a field and wish them luck, you train the players and during a game there is tactics which hopefully see you win. Just like running a club, as in player development (where you hope to mold players to how you play, while giving them the tools to implement it) there has to be plans, assesments and time.

The heart club seems to have given alot of the last, yet I do wonder how

much planning and assesing has gone on in the background to help JA. He is only one guy with so many minutes to dedicate.

Next season see's the FFA paying the cap, I hope the extra money this eleviates helps the club to be more proffesional in it's approach and succesfull in all areas.

[tachycardia]

Next season see's the FFA paying the cap, I hope the extra money this eleviates helps the club to be more proffesional in it's approach and succesfull in all areas.

 

Is the FFA paying our wage bill next season? Or every team's?

[moops]

Every teams.

[moops]

From memory, they announced:

All HAL clubs would be given the 2.2M to cover the cap.

More funding for the states to help grass roots football.

More friendlies for the socceroos.

Two extra subs on the bench in the HAL.

SBS showing a game a week on FTA and a HAL highlight show.

There was more said, but thats all I remember.

[Red or Dead]

I don't think they've decided on the subs rule yet. They were talking about extending it from four to 5 or 6. This is where I think the A-League and the coaches will either flourish or flounder!

 

Aloisi will no longer be able to blame it on the players because now he has a bigger pool to select from. If we're down 2-0, he can take off his defensive mids or a defender and sub on an attacker. If we're down 3-0 he can take off an attacker for a defensive mid, etc... This will separate the boys from the men in the coaching circle! I can see Ange, Arnold and Poppa flourishing...I put Aloisi in the other bucket after what we've seen this season, but I'm all too happy to be proven wrong!

[moops]

Realy? Danm, 4 subs is realy poor and I agree, with more subs comes even more tactical nouse. It also means players like Tompson or maybe Hoff will not be as valued, becuase the need for a versatile player is less needed than a talented player who can play in one or two positions. Plus it gives more oppotunities to fringe players, change of formation.....

[heart_fan10]

I don't think they've decided on the subs rule yet. They were talking about extending it from four to 5 or 6. This is where I think the A-League and the coaches will either flourish or flounder!

 

Aloisi will no longer be able to blame it on the players because now he has a bigger pool to select from. If we're down 2-0, he can take off his defensive mids or a defender and sub on an attacker. If we're down 3-0 he can take off an attacker for a defensive mid, etc... This will separate the boys from the men in the coaching circle! I can see Ange, Arnold and Poppa flourishing...I put Aloisi in the other bucket after what we've seen this season, but I'm all too happy to be proven wrong!

 

2 extra subs would be brilliant, i've always thought we needed it not only for coaches to flourish as you say, but also for the development of younger players. The only thing stopping this in the past has been the cost of it but hopefully next season with the TV rights it can become a possibility.

 

I think we'd see more young players given a go off the bench, because at the moment coaches are too scared to put young, inexperienced players on the bench as they see it as a waste with only 3 outfield player bench spots available to them.

[Attack11]

What I can see happening is Heart once again next season struggling to attract supporters whilst there will be supporters out there that will my membership unconditionally I can tell you that my supports is conditional, and so it should be... My support at the beginning was about faith that this club was going to achieve and produce something special, that time has come and gone and now it's about results and silvawear. This isnt the AFL, I'm not going to wait 10yrs before I see my team lift the cup once... The pool of talent is far greater in our code and the A-league is an even competition but its the 1%ers that will make the difference, so coaching, team selection, player recruitment, fitness & conditioning are all majore elements that contribute to a successful side... IMO the heart has failed in all these departments in particular Player and team selection, fitness & conditioning and that falls on the shoulder of JA and his assistant, he had this team for 6months... How he can keep his job after this season is mind boggling to me.

[theresonlyonebzamora]

go support someone else then ya fucken glory hunter.

 

as much as i'd like my side to do well (as does everyone), being a fan/member isn't reliant on success.

[Kiro Kompiro]

go support someone else then ya fucken glory hunter.

 

as much as i'd like my side to do well (as does everyone), being a fan/member isn't reliant on success.

 

 

What are your KPI's for assessing where the club is at? 

[Attack11]

go support someone else then ya fucken glory hunter.

as much as i'd like my side to do well (as does everyone), being a fan/member isn't reliant on success.

Maybe you should follow another fucking code. So you want your team to do well yet you don't object to any of shit we have seen this year... It's supporters like you that keep everyone at the club in a comfertable position... All other supporters from other sides in the comp demand results from there clubs, players and coaches...

So I guess your happy watching the same shit year after year... Fuck!

Edited March 22, 2013 by Attack11

[theresonlyonebzamora]

Mate i'm a fucken demons supporter - you think i'd abandon them cause they've been mostly shit for 20 years? of course not.

 

In terms of my level of support, i don't care if the club finishes last five years in a row and gets relegated to the under 14's league, i would still be as passionate about it as ever. does that mean i don't want my club to win something? of course not. it just means i don't cut up my membership or refuse to support a club if they're doing shite.

[hedaik]

Attack11 sounds like an enraged talkback caller whos had a couple too many at the game.

[theresonlyonebzamora]

And thinks that supporting a club has to be based around them being successful

[Defibrillator]

“You can change your wife, your politics, your religion, but never, never can you change your favourite football team.” – Eric Cantona.

He made some mistakes in his time, but he got this one right.

[Attack11]

Mate i'm a fucken demons supporter - you think i'd abandon them cause they've been mostly shit for 20 years? of course not.

In terms of my level of support, i don't care if the club finishes last five years in a row and gets relegated to the under 14's league, i would still be as passionate about it as ever. does that mean i don't want my club to win something? of course not. it just means i don't cut up my membership or refuse to support a club if they're doing shite.

Well that's the difference between you and me. I can't believe and I will NEVER understand how you can support a team in any code for such a long periode of time and in returne you get nothing... So you have never experienced the ultimate joy that a supporter can feel? To explain its like when we beat the Victory, now times that feeling by 10...

So you have paid on Average $450 on membership per year for the Demond's for 20yrs... That's $9,000 you have given the club plus whatever else you have bought off them and you have received nothing in returne ... Not even the hope that in your life time you will see your team lift the cup....

Me! I could never support such a thing and by support I mean buying membership... Don't get me wrong I will always follow and support the Heart but I will not let the club take me for a fool... If the plan is to be sustainable 1st and silvaware 2nd then say that, or if there is a plan then tell us... But to blindly give $$$ way and have the board think that I support what they are doing or lack there of... No chance...

[biancorosso7]

Mate i'm a fucken demons supporter - you think i'd abandon them cause they've been mostly shit for 20 years? of course not.

In terms of my level of support, i don't care if the club finishes last five years in a row and gets relegated to the under 14's league, i would still be as passionate about it as ever. does that mean i don't want my club to win something? of course not. it just means i don't cut up my membership or refuse to support a club if they're doing shite.

Well that's the difference between you and me. I can't believe and I will NEVER understand how you can support a team in any code for such a long periode of time and in returne you get nothing... So you have never experienced the ultimate joy that a supporter can feel? To explain its like when we beat the Victory, now times that feeling by 10...

So you have paid on Average $450 on membership per year for the Demond's for 20yrs... That's $9,000 you have given the club plus whatever else you have bought off them and you have received nothing in returne ... Not even the hope that in your life time you will see your team lift the cup....

Me! I could never support such a thing and by support I mean buying membership... Don't get me wrong I will always follow and support the Heart but I will not let the club take me for a fool... If the plan is to be sustainable 1st and silvaware 2nd then say that, or if there is a plan then tell us... But to blindly give $$$ way and have the board think that I support what they are doing or lack there of... No chance...

 

On that basis, how will you (personally) know when to buy a membership in a winning year for any code?

[Attack11]

And thinks that supporting a club has to be based around them being successful

So when the club started 3yrs ago were they successful ?

What about year 2?

What about this year? Have we been successful in any why shape or form?

What's the plan going forward...

I don't think you understand anything about football, you don't have passion you just go with the flow ... You don't care if we win, lose, draw, finish last, or first ... This is entertainment for you... Well for me it's much much more.... and THAT you will never understand...

[Attack11]

Mate i'm a fucken demons supporter - you think i'd abandon them cause they've been mostly shit for 20 years? of course not.

In terms of my level of support, i don't care if the club finishes last five years in a row and gets relegated to the under 14's league, i would still be as passionate about it as ever. does that mean i don't want my club to win something? of course not. it just means i don't cut up my membership or refuse to support a club if they're doing shite.

Well that's the difference between you and me. I can't believe and I will NEVER understand how you can support a team in any code for such a long periode of time and in returne you get nothing... So you have never experienced the ultimate joy that a supporter can feel? To explain its like when we beat the Victory, now times that feeling by 10...

So you have paid on Average $450 on membership per year for the Demond's for 20yrs... That's $9,000 you have given the club plus whatever else you have bought off them and you have received nothing in returne ... Not even the hope that in your life time you will see your team lift the cup....

Me! I could never support such a thing and by support I mean buying membership... Don't get me wrong I will always follow and support the Heart but I will not let the club take me for a fool... If the plan is to be sustainable 1st and silvaware 2nd then say that, or if there is a plan then tell us... But to blindly give $$$ way and have the board think that I support what they are doing or lack there of... No chance...

On that basis, how will you (personally) know when to buy a membership in a winning year for any code?

I have mentioned this before many times. If we as a team are competitive on the field I will buy my membership every year and I will win and lose every game with the boys but I believe that if the heart get there football right we will be the biggest club in Melbourne I have no doubt about that. Our membership represents support for the club and decisions that are being made (essentially our vote of approval) and at this time I don't approve of what the heart is doing football wise and I don't approve of JA as head coach... If he magically turns it around then great but IMO I can't see that happening ...

[kingofhearts]

And thinks that supporting a club has to be based around them being successful

So when the club started 3yrs ago were they successful ?

What about year 2?

What about this year? Have we been successful in any why shape or form?

What's the plan going forward...

I don't think you understand anything about football, you don't have passion you just go with the flow ... You don't care if we win, lose, draw, finish last, or first ... This is entertainment for you... Well for me it's much much more.... and THAT you will never understand...

Hold on mate. Your completely out of line here. It's supporters like bzamora who keep this club together, willing to support through thick and thin.

 

Is winning on the pitch the only thing you care about in regards to supporting a club??

 

What about yarraside who provide the amazing atmosphere every home match??? Being a member is much more than simply supporting on field performance. I've been lucky enough

to meet some great people in yarraside in this year and more or less i'm getting a membership just to be able to see them again.

 

Your clearly not a western bulldogs supporter or a st.kilda supporter, my pop has been a saints member for 40 odd years, and even though they have won jack shit, has always stuck with them.

 

We all demand success mate, but when you chose to support our club you knew what you were getting. Melbourne's 'little brother' so to speak. If you wish to stop supporting thats fine, your loss champ

[marn11]

Mate i'm a fucken demons supporter - you think i'd abandon them cause they've been mostly shit for 20 years? of course not.

In terms of my level of support, i don't care if the club finishes last five years in a row and gets relegated to the under 14's league, i would still be as passionate about it as ever. does that mean i don't want my club to win something? of course not. it just means i don't cut up my membership or refuse to support a club if they're doing shite.

There's a few fellow Dees supporters on here!

Anyway, you're spot on. If you only follow a club for results, you aren't a fan for the right reasons.