The APL/FA Management Thread

[AntiScum]

21 minutes ago, hakz7 said:

I'd rather cop 5 goals in a derby again than "get together" with that mob.

The fans are the voice of football (no fans no football), to send a clear message to the tiprat scumbag Gallop, its no bigger stage.

One big banner or one big walk out would send a statement to all!!!

[n i k o]

Simon Hill is great:

http://www.fiveaa.com.au/fiveaa/shows/rowey-and-bicks

[thisphantomfortress]

2 minutes ago, AntiScum said:

The fans are the voice of football (no fans no football), to send a clear message to the tiprat scumbag Gallop, its no bigger stage.

One big banner or one big walk out would send a statement to all!!!

Although I support your enthusiasm the logistics of a derby just wouldn't allow it IMO. Hopefully this will all be resolved before it gets to that though

[hakz7]

Just now, AntiScum said:

The fans are the voice of football (no fans no football), to send a clear message to the tiprat scumbag Gallop, its no bigger stage.

One big banner or one big walk out would send a statement to all!!!

I wouldn't mind large banners from both sides but I wouldn't want a silent protest or walkout on such an occasion despite how deep the sent message would be.

[AntiScum]

6 minutes ago, hakz7 said:

I wouldn't mind large banners from both sides but I wouldn't want a silent protest or walkout on such an occasion despite how deep the sent message would be.

banners would send the message required.

[n i k o]

How many suburban terrorists will be attending the CCM game? 

[AntiScum]

16 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Simon Hill is great:

http://www.fiveaa.com.au/fiveaa/shows/rowey-and-bicks

interesting to hear the interview. i hope those who are on that list and those who have lost their jobs take legal action. (stealing images, accusations & assumptions)

[Jestr]

well done FFA for selecting this idiot......enjoy the ride!

 

[Peter]

Out with old A-League and in with new NSL!

[n i k o]

In response to David Gallop’s press conference on Dec 1st 2015, The Cove will be boycotting our next home game, against Newcastle Jets on Dec 4th at Allianz stadium. We have consulted with numerous other fan groups most of whom will do the same.

This is not an action taken lightly, we have tried to discuss issues with the FFA directly, this did not work, what we were told was quickly contradicted and contradicted again, while we made it easy for all to see the lies we were fed, it appears that the FFA needs to better understand how serious the issues are.

It is clear from Gallops words that not only does he not have the answers, he is yet to comprehend the questions.

Our issues are as follows:
The FFA has failed miserably in its duty to protect the game from those who wish to harm it, staying silent as gutter press and talk show mouth-breathers trampled the reputation of the game, preferring to protect personal relationships over their relationship with the fans who power the game, then having the audacity to insult us by telling us to move on. The FFA MUST make a stand on fans behalf and refute the disgusting and sociopathic name calling and breech of privacy that we have been subject to. The FFA’s unwillingness to do so compromises their right to claim leadership.

The FFA refuses to acknowledge that they have not treated fans as stakeholders in our sport, the most obvious and egregious evidence is in the banning and appeals process. NO-ONE is saying that fans who break the rules should not be punished, but the entire process shows contempt for basic human rights, massive hubris in the assumption that they are never wrong and a thoroughly medieval grasp of basic concepts of justice, demanding that we accept their decision without any access to evidence and demand that those condemned provide overwhelming proof of innocence despite never being allowed to understand the basis of their bans. The continued use of Hatamoto and the absolute absence of any insight into their role, activities or methods again shows contempt for fans.

The FFA must provide:
A Transparent and documented process for banning fans with defined standards of evidence
A fair appeals process that provides access to evidence used to ban.
A full and frank explanation of the role of Hatamoto and the scope of their remit in ALL aspects of fan management
A commitment to transparent practices at all levels.
A consultative framework that engages all stakeholders in the game.
A demonstrable willingness to stand up to the lies and defamation that football bigots in the media throw at us, stand up for our sport every day or get out of the way and let someone who loves the sport do it.

We respect the rights of every fan group to decide how they wish to protest against fans treatment and we respect the right of every fan to decide whether to participate. However we ask that those Sydney FC fans who do not wish to participate not undermine our protest and to leave the active bays empty.

The Cove
 

[Jestr]

out with modern football!

back to tribal, passionate, local suburban roots of the game!!

[AntiScum]

#GALLOPOUT

incompetent - gutless - spineless typical NRL mentality .......

Edited December 1, 2015 by AntiScum

[n i k o]

Apparently a league wide boycott is happening from all supporter groups this round. 

FFA seriously dropped the ball on this.

[Jimmy]

This is fucking brilliant and horrible at the same time. I'm pretty glad I don't have a leadership role anymore and can just watch all this unfold and piece together all the inside stuff from what I can pry from various contacts. The absolute shit storm that would hit this forum if something like a derby boycott were to happen would make for great viewing lol. 

Super interesting month ahead. 

[Falastur]

First of all, I'm writing this in my lunch break. I know this thread has exploded since Silva's comment but I don't have time to review the rest of the thread and reply so I'll have to read it later. I apologise if anything I say has already been said or is irrelevant in the later conversation. 

4 hours ago, silva10 said:

lol

I have no clue about the FFA, however, the FA have no power on the English leagues

I don't think the FA know what they do, but they are supposed to grow the game from the bottom by investing in the community  and youth.

I also have little idea about the FFA but your comments about the FA are a little off here, although kind of accurate in their sentiment. 

The FA is a corporation existing for the purposes of governance, the same as the FFA I'm sure. How they do that is essentially by acting as a sort of membership organisation. They administer football in its entirety for the country while not operating any of the leagues. The only competition they do administer is the FA Cup. They exert no control over the various English leagues but those leagues have to affiliate to the FA in order to be recognised. As the FA is FIFA/UEFA's own affiliate organisation for the country in turn, the only way that clubs and leagues can operate under the umbrella of organised football is by being an affiliate of the FA. Refusing to affiliate means that you cannot receive FIFA refereeing support, nor are you officially bound by the Laws of the Game, and as the government recognises the FA's authority, they will also not recognise you as being a true football club. You might as well be playing a different code of football. 

It should be said that because the FA I'd a governing body it controls all player registrations. If a club wants to buy or loan a player they MUST fill in FA paperwork. Therefore if you are not under the FA then your ability to register players becomes questionable, and FIFA affiliated players (I.e. everyone) will be reluctant at best to join you. They also control all the coaching qualifications under UEFA level, so they technically are the sole body capable of dictating whether a coach or manager is qualified to work. 

It's also worth noting at this point that clubs do not affiliate to their leagues in turn, they affiliate to their County FAs, which are powerless organisations entirely controlled by the FA while not technically part of it. 

Yes,the FA does not try to control the leagues but they are still bound by its authority. The leagues have to use any laws the FA insists on and all punishments are done by the FA not the leagues. While the FA recognises the Premier League and the Football League as essentially its money spinners and will defer somewhat to their guidance at the end of the day it retains the ability to essentially exile any club or organisation from football by revoking their membership. In practice this never happens but a League could not operate if it resigned from the FA. It would turn into a massive mess. 

[silva10]

5 minutes ago, Falastur said:

First of all, I'm writing this in my lunch break. I know this thread has exploded since Silva's comment but I don't have time to review the rest of the thread and reply so I'll have to read it later. I apologise if anything I say has already been said or is irrelevant in the later conversation. 

I also have little idea about the FFA but your comments about the FA are a little off here, although kind of accurate in their sentiment. 

The FA is a corporation existing for the purposes of governance, the same as the FFA I'm sure. How they do that is essentially by acting as a sort of membership organisation. They administer football in its entirety for the country while not operating any of the leagues. The only competition they do administer is the FA Cup. They exert no control over the various English leagues but those leagues have to affiliate to the FA in order to be recognised. As the FA is FIFA/UEFA's own affiliate organisation for the country in turn, the only way that clubs and leagues can operate under the umbrella of organised football is by being an affiliate of the FA. Refusing to affiliate means that you cannot receive FIFA refereeing support, nor are you officially bound by the Laws of the Game, and as the government recognises the FA's authority, they will also not recognise you as being a true football club. You might as well be playing a different code of football. 

It should be said that because the FA I'd a governing body it controls all player registrations. If a club wants to buy or loan a player they MUST fill in FA paperwork. Therefore if you are not under the FA then your ability to register players becomes questionable, and FIFA affiliated players (I.e. everyone) will be reluctant at best to join you. They also control all the coaching qualifications under UEFA level, so they technically are the sole body capable of dictating whether a coach or manager is qualified to work. 

It's also worth noting at this point that clubs do not affiliate to their leagues in turn, they affiliate to their County FAs, which are powerless organisations entirely controlled by the FA while not technically part of it. 

Yes,the FA does not try to control the leagues but they are still bound by its authority. The leagues have to use any laws the FA insists on and all punishments are done by the FA not the leagues. While the FA recognises the Premier League and the Football League as essentially its money spinners and will defer somewhat to their guidance at the end of the day it retains the ability to essentially exile any club or organisation from football by revoking their membership. In practice this never happens but a League could not operate if it resigned from the FA. It would turn into a massive mess. 

I knows about the registration and affiliation Falastur, but in essence the FA don't really have any say in the running of the clubs or leagues as they seem to do in Australia.

I don't have any idea how the grass roots of the game is run, except everyone seems to say it is run very poorly.

 

 

[Falastur]

3 hours ago, silva10 said:

I knows about the registration and affiliation Falastur, but in essence the FA don't really have any say in the running of the clubs or leagues as they seem to do in Australia.

I don't have any idea how the grass roots of the game is run, except everyone seems to say it is run very poorly.

Completely agree, but the essence of my point is that people here are talking like the a-league might cut ties with the FFA, not entirely unlike in American sports where it's historically been fairly common for two organisations to be in active competition over which one is the true national authority for the sport in that country. That simply wouldn't work in football. 

[Shahanga]

1 hour ago, Falastur said:

Completely agree, but the essence of my point is that people here are talking like the a-league might cut ties with the FFA, not entirely unlike in American sports where it's historically been fairly common for two organisations to be in active competition over which one is the true national authority for the sport in that country. That simply wouldn't work in football. 

To be honest I'm not sure people are suggesting a complete break from the FFA (well maybe 1 or 2 but only because they don't know what they are saying). The Crawford report recommended that a new league, referred to in the press as "the Australian premier league"  be established that was run as an independent body - ie like the EPL. This new league became the A League. The management of it though hasn't become independent yet for various reasons that others have touched on, but the clubs are starting to get frustrated. Not least of all Melbourne City FC, who think an independent league would give less weight to the desires of Sydney FC and thus allow them to also play in their beloved and sacred Sky blue (the colours of NSW since 1857). The current inability of the FFA to defuse this situation (in fact they seem to be only making it worse) means that something big is going to have to give. Frankly I suspect if the FFA don't cede control, it might be the end of the A League.

[Falastur]

Just now, Shahanga said:

To be honest I'm not sure people are suggesting a complete break from the FFA (well maybe 1 or 2 but only because they don't know what they are saying). The Crawford report recommended that a new league, referred to in the press as "the Australian premier league"  be established that was run as an independent body - ie like the EPL. This new league became the A League. The management of it though hasn't become independent yet for various reasons that others have touched on, but the clubs are starting to get frustrated. Not least of all Melbourne City FC, who think an independent league would give less weight to the desires of Sydney FC and thus allow them to also play in their beloved and sacred Sky blue (the colours of NSW since 1857). The current inability of the FFA to defuse this situation (in fact they seem to be only making it worse) means that something big is going to have to give. Frankly I suspect if the FFA don't cede control, it might be the end of the A League.

Yeah, again, I responded to the second post having only read part of the thread. The early messages very much seemed to be along the lines of "the A-League's relationship with the FFA could collapse over this" and "what would happen if the A-League went indepedent?" By the previous page then yeah, people seemed to have moved more to a questioning of how the new relationship would work if the A-League governed itself, at which point again my comment became less well-aimed.

[thisphantomfortress]

Seems our brother in Manchester are boycotting too!

https://mobile.twitter.com/timbolton1/status/671778265976184833/photo/1

[mattyh001]

Not that I agree that muppet Gallop, but the way I see it the FFA response comes down to broadcast deals - of which the current deal is due to finish at the end of next season (mid 2017). 

Both the AFL and NRL have signed deals this year that start in 2017 and 2018 respectively, indicating the FFA will want the next broadcasting deal locked in at least one season in advance - that is to say the end of the season. So negotiations should be well under way. 

And of course with Foxtel owned by none other than NewsCorp (cue the arsehole of a journo who started the whole issue) so I'm sure Gallop et al are trying not finger themselves or the broadcast deal by slagging off NewsCorp journos. 

So I kinda get Gallops position. 

If only he wasn't such a fucking moron. Talk about biting the hand that feeds!!

There were so many better ways to go in getting a neutral comment out there. More than anything, surely he could of shut the issue down by putting out how well the fans generally behave. Change the focal point completely. Give the media something really positive to report. In other words drown the son of a bitches that want to drag us down through wide spread positive news stories. 

A one liner about how disappointing it is that some deem invading privacy for personal gain above journalistic integrity (coupled with how good Australian media is / provide some examples of such) would keep the media onside while giving others a subtle back hander. 

And while zero tolerance is there for serious offenders (something all parties agree with - including many if not all on here), the FFA will make the process of banning more transparent. 

Problem fixed. 

Fucking Muppets at FFA but!!  I wanna see them dig there way out of this 

[cadete]

I wonder if those members of the Melbourne based 198 will be boycotting coming to The Gimp after the Derby... 

[jw1739]

The A-League clubs have pushed for the league to be run by a commission, rather than direct by FFA, for some time. It is extremely difficult for the league to "break away" from FFA, because it is FFA who represent football in this country to FIFA, so any one playing in a rebel league would immediately become ineligible to represent Australia in the World Cup.

How astonishing that an issue that was so easy to actually fix has gone out of control in the past 24 hours. I can hardly believe it.

[cadete]

9 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

The A-League clubs have pushed for the league to be run by a commission, rather than direct by FFA, for some time. It is extremely difficult for the league to "break away" from FFA, because it is FFA who represent football in this country to FIFA, so any one playing in a rebel league would immediately become ineligible to represent Australia in the World Cup.

How astonishing that an issue that was so easy to actually fix has gone out of control in the past 24 hours. I can hardly believe it.

It's like the collapse of the USSR in how things have crumbled so fast, things have gone from discussing banned fans being named in a paper (Most of whom deserved to be banned) to questioning the entire legitimacy of the FFA as an organisation capable of running the Domestic Game in a couple of days.

[hedaik]

To those supporting the protests and right to appeal (which seems to be everybody now), would you be happy if an independent body, or a whole new respected soccer administration decided that the current process is the best way to protect the games image and stop the ALeague from gaining the same reputation as the NSL?

[jw1739]

3 minutes ago, hedaik said:

To those supporting the protests and right to appeal (which seems to be everybody now), would you be happy if an independent body, or a whole new respected soccer administration decided that the current process is the best way to protect the games image and stop the ALeague from gaining the same reputation as the NSL?

I don't think that's a reasonable hypothetical to put, because I don't believe that a "whole new respected soccer administration" could possibly perform in the same way as FFA has or come to the same conclusions on a whole raft of matters. The list of recent bungles is just too long.

[Nate]

this whole sequence of events is truly fascinating

I can't believe how badly the FFA have fucked up something as simple as public relations to such a great extent, as Jimmy said it's both brilliant and horrible. 

Simon Hill articulated it the best (as he always does) in today's article

[sheepdog]

2 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I don't think that's a reasonable hypothetical to put, because I don't believe that a "whole new respected soccer administration" could possibly perform in the same way as FFA has or come to the same conclusions on a whole raft of matters. The list of recent bungles is just too long.

People were saying exact same thing when FFA took over from soccer Australia. 

 

[cadete]

12 minutes ago, Nate said:

this whole sequence of events is truly fascinating

I can't believe how badly the FFA have fucked up something as simple as public relations to such a great extent, as Jimmy said it's both brilliant and horrible. 

Simon Hill articulated it the best (as he always does) in today's article

FWIW I can't really take Simon Hill's comments seriously and feel they are as biased towards the game as Rebecca Wilson's are against it... and facts are facts and its a fact that AFL fans and NRL fans dont attack Pubs containing Opposition fans on purpose.

The reason for this is because the bloke was having a beer at the Gimp when a number of the Melbourne based 198 with longer bans turned up and performed the acts that saw them get their actual bans for very valid reasons.

(It should also be noted that MVFC had played SFC at home that day and that these PPL's arrival at The Gimp to greet a small number of MHFC watching their side play WSW on TV was there desert for the evening rather than the main course they had enjoyed earlier in the day.) 

Edited December 2, 2015 by cadete

[hedaik]

11 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I don't think that's a reasonable hypothetical to put, because I don't believe that a "whole new respected soccer administration" could possibly perform in the same way as FFA has or come to the same conclusions on a whole raft of matters. The list of recent bungles is just too long.

Im only referring to the appeals process, I don't think its that unrealistic to think that an independent person could find the current process is the best for weeding out the troublemakers 

[n i k o]

Susie o'Brien:

https://audioboom.com/boos/3894002-susie-o-brien-talks-to-morning-glory-about-her-a-league-fan-walk-out-article

 

Bozza in response this morning:

https://audioboom.com/boos/3894063-mark-bosnich-talks-to-morning-glory

Edited December 2, 2015 by n i k o

[Nate]

1 minute ago, cadete said:

FWIW I can't really take Simon Hill's comments seriously and feel they are as biased towards the game as Rebecca Wilson's are against it...

The reason for this is because the bloke was having a beer at the Gimp when a number of the Melbourne based 198 with longer bans turned up and performed the acts that saw them get their actual bans for very valid reasons.

(It should also be noted that MVFC had played SFC at home that day and that these PPL's arrival at The Gimp to greet a small number of MHFC watching their side play WSW on TV was there desert for the evening rather than the main course they had enjoyed earlier in the day.) 

yeah, but that's the whole point of this isn't it? 

It's a small minority, but everyone's been painted with the same brush.

[cadete]

16 minutes ago, Nate said:

yeah, but that's the whole point of this isn't it? 

It's a small minority, but everyone's been painted with the same brush.

No, I actually dont think everyone is being painted with the same brush in these articles...

I think the articles are terribly worded (One obvious word comes to mind) and sensationalist but the only people being painted as idiots are those on the banned list and those who then sent death threats to Rebecca Wilson.

There is a minute portion of PPL in the 198 who probably dont deserve to be referred to like the majority of the bunch which is unfortunate but the reality is that this is going to happen when they are a small majority of those on the list.

Also it makes sense that PPL who know nothing about Soccer are not going to understand why PPL are protesting in support of a list of 198 names who have the word Flare or in more cases Affray next to their name. PPL dont know that the protest is also about Active Support in fact I think you would find even your average EPL fanboy probably doesn't even really know what the word "Active Support" means as its a word for fairly serious A-League Fans.

I am sorry I know PPL are making good points about how Active Support is being limited in its ability to provide Atmosphere and the League has some serious Administrative Issues but its interesting how nobody who has actually come across the PPL in the 198 who posts on this forum has made any comments about them being dealt with too harshly. (In fact it has been the opposite.)

Edited December 2, 2015 by cadete

[strider]

loves a good shit storm 

[belaguttman]

One of the big problems is the Murdoch influence in Australia in general but on our game in this instance, dealing with them is like holding a multi-headed snake by the tail, at least one of those heads will bite you for its own reasons. I certainly hope that the broadcast deal goes to a FTA broadcaster, I'd even be happy to see less money if it freed us up from the Murdoch monopoly.

[Tesla]

Glad to see my season long boycott has lead to such a shit storm.  

I take full credit  

[belaguttman]

1 hour ago, hedaik said:

To those supporting the protests and right to appeal (which seems to be everybody now), would you be happy if an independent body, or a whole new respected soccer administration decided that the current process is the best way to protect the games image and stop the ALeague from gaining the same reputation as the NSL?

No, because the process is not transparent and denies natural justice, its not about FFA, it wouldn't matter who administered the same process. Its really the issue that it is though in its context of the global issue of the relationship between FFA and fans that is expressed through the bans process, ground security, lack of consultation and collective punishment

[Tonyboozeadams]

1 hour ago, cadete said:

It's like the collapse of the USSR in how things have crumbled so fast, things have gone from discussing banned fans being named in a paper (Most of whom deserved to be banned) to questioning the entire legitimacy of the FFA as an organisation capable of running the Domestic Game in a couple of days.

*CCCP

[hedaik]

23 minutes ago, Tesla said:

Glad to see my season long boycott has lead to such a shit storm.  

I take full credit  

You should join up with the Perth Terrace. They released a statement saying they'll be boycotting even though they havent attended a game all year. 

[jw1739]

This is from Wikipedia. Highlighting is mine.

In April 2010, in the greatest sporting scandal in NRL history, he announced the stripping of two premierships and three minor premierships from the Melbourne Storm team. He further announced they would play out the remainder of the 2010 season for no points. Gallop was widely criticised by many for these heavy penalties with much of the criticism directed at the apparent conflict of interest. Gallop's employer - News Limited - was also the owner of the Melbourne Storm. Gallop was also close friends^[3] with John Hartigan - the then Chairman of News Limited Australia. Hartigan identified Storm's ex-CEO Brian Waldron as the 'chief rat'. All penalties were handed down despite Gallop not seeking board approval prior to doing so, and were handed down before any investigation was conducted. In order to diffuse some of this criticism, the NRL Board finally came out a month later and backed Gallop's stance.^[4] This was the second major salary cap scandal under Gallop's leadership. In 2002, the then table-topping Canterbury Bulldogs were stripped of all competition points and finished wooden spooners after being found cheating the salary cap. However, just two years later they won the premiership with largely the same playing roster.^[5] Gallop also had to deal with the controversial mid-season defection of Bulldogs star Sonny Bill Williams to French rugby union.^[6][7]

In 2011 he again fell into hot water in his first visit to Melbourne after the Storm salary cap scandal of 2010, when he likened Melbourne Storm fans to terrorists after they booed him during the presentation of the 2011 Minor Premiership. This coming after the Storm were presented the minor premiership on 11 September, exactly the tenth anniversary of the September 11 attacks in America. He was forced later to clarify his comments^[8] which did little to ease the already fractured relations between the NRL and the Melbourne Storm fans.

In February 2012, co-inciding with the formation of the new NRL independent commission and the exit of News Limited from its control of the game, Gallop's contract as CEO was formally extended a further four years. His contract extension was a condition placed by News Limited with the ARL.^[9] 2012 was Gallop's 10th year in charge of Rugby League in Australia; however, on Tuesday, 5 June 2012 Gallop's reign as NRL CEO came to an end when the new Independent Commission announced his immediate departure. This was mostly due to the fact that the ARL wanted to go 'in a different direction'.