The APL/FA Management Thread

[agoalie]

When people question the reasoning for this protest then boo it and say we are doing this for ourselves has absolutely no idea what commitment, effort and passion the terrace leaders have for our club. 

i spent almost 3 weeks of my life sewing and painting a 20m x 15m tifo for the derby in a dusty warehouse were i would wake up blowing out black from my nose and barely able to talk for it to be banned 2 days before the game. ive probably spent minimum $300 on supplies for making flags to make the terrace colourful and i havent asked for a cent in return and dont expect one. the one day off i have which isnt a public holiday in 3 months i spent it making the message banners with 3 others who are just as committed. there is many other things i do for the terrace which i wont list but when you are in my position you can comment on whether the terrace should protest or not. 

the fact remains is FFA treat active supporters extremely poor. the amount of restriction that are placed on us it is amazing that anything gets done. they use us to promote the game as what we have is unique and no other sport in the country can match that no matter how hard they try to recreate it. the FFA have to protect all its stakeholders and its response to this whole situation has been disgraceful. Showing the FFA what exactly a game would be like without active support was needed, fans are the game, my commitment to the club and game is stronger than ever but with continuing restrictions and without support from the FFA to stick up for us the commitment and passion can only last for so long. 

[SHERLOCK]

5 hours ago, sheepdog said:

Yeah, so?

You cunts got a problem? 

 

Yeah. Get a haircut punk.

[dconder13]

On 27 November 2015 at 8:39:34 PM, KSK_47 said:

They got the whole stadium going at the ffa cup game against the nix. Its actually not that difficult to get people chanting when we play really well. Thats why it hardly ever happens

Decent effort without the 'core', drums & mega I would've thought 

[hakz7]

What's the status on the drums by the way? Have we got a new one?

[thisphantomfortress]

28 minutes ago, hakz7 said:

What's the status on the drums by the way? Have we got a new one?

For Tommos sake (he's not on forum so I can talk shit about him) we've organised two of our drums to be ready for next game 

[Torn Asunder]

Positive coverage on the Melburnian's actions on the ABC's Saturday night 7pm news. They showed the partially empty active area, the banners/messages and they talked with accuracy about the reason for the protest.

So despite some saying it was a waste of time, it appears the message was delivered successfully and noted beyond just the people close to the game.

[thisphantomfortress]

7 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

Positive coverage on the Melburnian's actions on the ABC's Saturday night 7pm news. They showed the partially empty active area, the banners/messages and they talked with accuracy about the reason for the protest.

So despite some saying it was a waste of time, it appears the message was delivered successfully and noted beyond just the people close to the game.

For anyone that's interested TA put it to me big time at FRG on Thursday and put me under the pump face to face. We had a very honest and open chat be about the motives behind the protest in a very open forum. So if anyone has all sides and everyone's views it's him.

[dr lime]

3 hours ago, agoalie said:

When people question the reasoning for this protest then boo it and say we are doing this for ourselves has absolutely no idea what commitment, effort and passion the terrace leaders have for our club. 

i spent almost 3 weeks of my life sewing and painting a 20m x 15m tifo for the derby in a dusty warehouse were i would wake up blowing out black from my nose and barely able to talk for it to be banned 2 days before the game. ive probably spent minimum $300 on supplies for making flags to make the terrace colourful and i havent asked for a cent in return and dont expect one. the one day off i have which isnt a public holiday in 3 months i spent it making the message banners with 3 others who are just as committed. there is many other things i do for the terrace which i wont list but when you are in my position you can comment on whether the terrace should protest or not. 

the fact remains is FFA treat active supporters extremely poor. the amount of restriction that are placed on us it is amazing that anything gets done. they use us to promote the game as what we have is unique and no other sport in the country can match that no matter how hard they try to recreate it. the FFA have to protect all its stakeholders and its response to this whole situation has been disgraceful. Showing the FFA what exactly a game would be like without active support was needed, fans are the game, my commitment to the club and game is stronger than ever but with continuing restrictions and without support from the FFA to stick up for us the commitment and passion can only last for so long. 

Sigh. Okay, I'll respond for the last time and after that I'll stay out of the argument. 

1. Your service to the terrace and, by extension, to the club is admirable. But it is no better or worse than the hundreds, if not thousands of people working at local clubs coaching kids or senior teams, running coaching clinics, administering hundreds of thousands of people to be able to play each weekend, sitting on club Committees, etc. all around the land. They (and you) all contribute to the game in this country. Many of these people attend games and some support Melb City and want to be able to come to games with their kids without dickheads letting off flares and without being told their opinion is not as important as someone who is in an "active" group. Active support is worthwhile and adds to the game. But a very small minority also cause trouble to the game that it doesn't need. But that is just my opinion, you are entitled to disagree. 

2. Actually having an influence and creating change is hard work. Getting access to the leaders of the club, the stadium and the football powers, engaging with them and arguing a coherent case takes sustained effort and a lot more than a few banners. Don't get me wrong, the banners are fine. Protests are fine. My argument has been that not showing up doesn't really hurt anyone except the club. I reckon the protest would have been just as effective if you all turned up with the same banners and continued your active support. But that is just my opinion, you are entitled to disagree. 

3. Far from proving that "active support" is the most important aspect of the club, the fact that 6k turned up, created a bit of atmosphere (granted, it wasn't perhaps as good as normal), the team played well and the sky didn't fall in probably shows, to some extent, that if active supporters walk away, it will be a loss to us all but the club and the game will survive. So in a small way, the protest was perhaps actually a bit counter productive to the cause of active support. But that is just my opinion, you are entitled to disagree. 

4 hours ago, Jimmy said:

You're delusional if you think terrace leaders will give the same weight to opinions of those who sit on the wing and soak up the atmosphere as those who are in the terrace week in week out actually putting in.

No I'm not delusional. It is pretty much what I expected. Which kind of supports my "self-importance" argument (again...).

If you want to protest, then protest. Kudos to you for giving a shit. Just don't expect everyone to have the same opinions as to what we should be protesting about and/or the effectiveness of the protest. And don't disparage those who sit nearby and "soak up the atmosphere without putting in". Many of them have put in for many years to get the game to the stage where you are able to go to a good stadium and watch a well-organised league of full-time professionals play a reasonable standard of football and the major issues you have to worry about is whether the appeals process for a handful of antisocial fuckers could do with some improvement or whether you are allowed to have a very very big banner rather than just a fairly big one. 

[Embee]

16 minutes ago, dr lime said:

And don't disparage those who sit nearby and "soak up the atmosphere without putting in". 

Yet it's perfectly fine for you to come on here and throw out comments like  "One of the most useless, impotent, pointless exercises in deluded self-importance I have seen in a long time. Our active support crew are now officially almost as arrogant and self-absorbed as the tossers at WSW and Victory, whose heads are so far up their own arses they can't see daylight". You hardly seem in a position to be able to get on a pedestal about someone making disparaging comments towards someone else's opinions or experiences.

You come across as a bit of a self-important, arrogant tosser to me to be honest. But that is just my opinion, you are entitled to disagree.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Embee

[dr lime]

6 minutes ago, Embee said:

Yet it's perfectly fine for you to come on here and throw out comments like  "One of the most useless, impotent, pointless exercises in deluded self-importance I have seen in a long time. Our active support crew are now officially almost as arrogant and self-absorbed as the tossers at WSW and Victory, whose heads are so far up their own arses they can't see daylight"

You come accross as a bit of self-important, arrogant tosser to me to be honest mate. But that is just my opinion, you are entitled to disagree.

Yes, you make a good point. I shouldn't have personalised things. It was my initial reaction to us (in my opinion) starting to become what I despise about some aspects of the WSW and Victory supporters groups. I take it back. I will refrain from gratuitous slagging of active support, it is no better than gratuitous slagging of non-active support. I was wrong to do it. Now I will move on. 

[strider]

can we all just kiss and make up

[SF33]

16 hours ago, dr lime said:

Yes, I suppose the informed will know what it was all about. But one banner seemed to be aimed at News Ltd/Alan Jones (Terrorists one), who are unlikely to be watching as they are not "interested". And there was nothing that specifically (or even obliquely) referred to release/misuse of confidential information by FFA. So, my point is, if you have a short message to get across, make it clear. Like "JVS OUT". I am prepared to accept the "198" banner may have been a different group. But that is my point. A mish mash of different messages means the protest is really not worth the trouble. If it made the Melburnians feel good about themselves, that's great. But that's why I think this kind of thing smacks of deluded self-importance. If no-one other than fans/A League people are watching, you are either preaching to the converted or sending a message to people who don't give a shit anyway.    

Honestly, I had no idea what it was all about, or that the Wilson article existed on Friday night. I finally got around to jumping on here to be filled in this morning.

Shitful piece of journalism by Wilson, but for the Melbourne City active area to jump on this 'issue' harder than any other club...from where I'm sitting, it just seems as though the active area was hanging out for a 'big issue' to get behind. And the 'we support the 198' banner at the start of the second half would be a disgrace, if it wasn't so laughable. To be fair, we can't really be certain who had the inspiration for that one.

It irritates me that people would assume that Melburnians speak for me in any way, shape or form. I'm only speaking for myself here, but my advice would be to spend a bit more time getting changing the royal blue in the big tricolour flag to sky blue and giving it to easy targets like Andrew Redmayne. Again, speaking for myself here: I really couldn't care less if you're there or not.

 

[Kiro Kompiro]

41 minutes ago, SF33 said:

Honestly, I had no idea what it was all about, or that the Wilson article existed on Friday night. I finally got around to jumping on here to be filled in this morning.

Shitful piece of journalism by Wilson, but for the Melbourne City active area to jump on this 'issue' harder than any other club...from where I'm sitting, it just seems as though the active area was hanging out for a 'big issue' to get behind. And the 'we support the 198' banner at the start of the second half would be a disgrace, if it wasn't so laughable. To be fair, we can't really be certain who had the inspiration for that one.

It irritates me that people would assume that Melburnians speak for me in any way, shape or form. I'm only speaking for myself here, but my advice would be to spend a bit more time getting changing the royal blue in the big tricolour flag to sky blue and giving it to easy targets like Andrew Redmayne. Again, speaking for myself here: I really couldn't care less if you're there or not.

 

Is that you Mr Gallop?

[agoalie]

1 hour ago, SF33 said:

my advice would be to spend a bit more time getting changing the royal blue in the big tricolour flag to sky blue 

 

It was sky blue but it shows as white on TV so I changed it to melburnian blue.

[Tommykins]

Offsiders.

Now.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Tommykins

[jw1739]

Balanced coverage here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-28/melbourne-victory-fans-stage-walk-out-protest-over-ffa-treatment/6983762

[RFC56]

Once again Waleed Aly speaks with a calm, rational voice about the protest, where the others still don't get it. For those that missed it, he basically said the denigration of fans by the media is what upsets us.

[Tommykins]

Just now, RFC56 said:

Once again Waleed Aly speaks with a calm, rational voice about the protest, where the others still don't get it. For those that missed it, he basically said the denigration of fans by the media is what upsets us.

First time I've ever heard Gerard Whatley completely misunderstand a sporting argument.

[n i k o]

By Rebecca Wilson...

THOSE soccer fans who took great pride in their vile and toxic abuse of me (and others) this week have spelt out even more clearly than ever just how truly bad elements of the soccer community within Australia remain.
Publishing a fact sheet which contained 198 names and faces of banned soccer hooligans meant I became a victim and accused perpetrator by the worst elements of fan groups who refuse to bow to normally acceptable standards of behaviour.
No blame is accepted by those in the file, the ones who have been handed up to 20 year bans for their behaviour at and around soccer games. No liability is accepted from within the Western Sydney Wanderers, who now want those banned fans to have the right of appeal.
Voices in the game such as Simon Hill are meant to have a responsible and informed attitude to events within their sport, proved their siege mentality overrides all common sense and decency.
They have behaved disgracefully, attacking me for being on the “periphery”, for having a bias against their sport. None of them acknowledges that the file of 198 banned fans reflects the dangerous element in soccer. It is a fact file, not a fantasy.
What I also know is that the 3000 or so email senders and thousands more anonymous social media abusers jumped on troubling chat rooms to find out what personal line of attack to take against me. These people, all of them, merely underline why there is a shame file in the first place.
They are, as the police said, pack animals. Many of the emails have threatened to kill or castrate or maim me. All debased me. Not one was civil.
The new chairman, Steven Lowy, who I was told would not reply to my phone calls because this “was not a chairman’s issue” will most certainly be incapable of fixing it if he maintains that attitude.
No, while the FFA, the troublesome clubs and the people who work within the game continue to push their belief that publishing these files is somehow a sign of an irrational war against soccer, the problem will never be fixed.
Newly elected FFA boss Steven Lowy. The behaviour of some (and I will say there are more than a few, or that old favourite a “minority”), belies the efforts by those who are normal, decent fans to have their voice.
The Western Sydney Wanderers have a large number of fans who are good people. None of them sent me an email this week. They are being overshadowed by elements of an RBB intent on generating hatred and division.
For the club boss, sourcing the leak of the document has become the focal point, rather than the document itself. That there are more than 60 banned Wanderers fans was of no consequence to John Tsatsimas, who seemed to think the leaker deserved more punishment that any fan who’d thrown a flare or engaged in violence.
David Gallop felt compelled to issue a media release denying his organisation was the leak, to stem the ugliness coming from fans. It took him until Wednesday night to publicly urge the haters to stop threatening me.
How does the sport address its issues, underlined this week by a social media tribe who have no intention of complying with any rules of a civil society? Even this weekend, the RBB will stage walkouts aimed at having the bans lifted and the files kept private.
The RBB cheer at Hunter Stadium. Sydney FC fans, for example, have taken to booing every time a flare is thrown onto the ground by a Wanderers’ RBB member. 20,000 booing fans are having an impact. They are saying we will not tolerate this at our game, at an event where we want to enjoy ourselves in a safe environment.
The fear factor has a huge impact on soccer bosses. Fearful of fan reactions, fearful of trying too hard to weed out the baddies, they cower at the feet of the radical element.
Steven Lowy has been in the chair for a week. His first priority must be to put denial aside to confront head on the issues that dog his sport. A-League crowds are down. Does placing stadiums in 24-hour lockdown before matches or a police presence that rivals the worst days of the EPL keep genuinely good people from attending matches? Apparently not, according to the FFA.
Lowy cannot afford to adopt the same siege mentality that says a banned fan file is not a reflection of something wrong in soccer.
If rugby league or AFL or cricket had a file like this, it would be front page news for months. Instead, soccer pretends the problem isn’t the file, or how many other fans are doing the wrong thing.
No, soccer just pulls up the moat up throws more poisonous barbs at those peripheral messengers.

[HEARTinator]

19 minutes ago, Tommykins said:

First time I've ever heard Gerard Whatley completely misunderstand a sporting argument.

He disappointed me this morning. Waleed got to the point and said it really well. He spoke about the undertone of the article written by Rebecca and the commentary from Jones as being disturbing (can't recall exact words) and that 's what the fans were reacting to - not just the release of the names. Gerard didn't get it because, I guess, as a broad sports fan and primarily an avid Geelong/AFL supporter, this kind of constant, age old, anti-football 'bile' is not a part of the Melbourne sports media landscape as experienced by AFL supporters.

 

Oh and Rebecca Wilson feels fine releasing confidential information and then blaming others for get into a lather over it. Surely a person who is without critical self awareness.

Edited November 28, 2015 by HEARTinator

[Jimmy]

12 hours ago, dr lime said:

No I'm not delusional. It is pretty much what I expected. Which kind of supports my "self-importance" argument (again...).

If you want to protest, then protest. Kudos to you for giving a shit. Just don't expect everyone to have the same opinions as to what we should be protesting about and/or the effectiveness of the protest. And don't disparage those who sit nearby and "soak up the atmosphere without putting in". Many of them have put in for many years to get the game to the stage where you are able to go to a good stadium and watch a well-organised league of full-time professionals play a reasonable standard of football and the major issues you have to worry about is whether the appeals process for a handful of antisocial fuckers could do with some improvement or whether you are allowed to have a very very big banner rather than just a fairly big one. 

When did anyone from the leadership group say anyone had to agree with the protest or buy into it being an effective means of communicating the issue/creating change? In fact I've heard some of the most senior members of the terrace say the exact opposite, one even said something along the lines of "people can sing if they want, I'm not some controlling overlord".

If you don't agree with the actions of the terrace that's okay and I'm sure the leaders won't begrudge you for it. But if you come on here telling people who have to fight all sorts of road blocks every week just to effectively support their team (often with no rewards from the playing group) just how important your opinion should be you're going to come across as an arrogant twat. 

The views of members of any group or organization anywhere in society are always going to be more important to that group than that of those outside of the group throwing insults at them. If you can't accept that you're going to get quite frustrated with the world.

Also, on the topic of the effectiveness of the protests, I think the league wide protests in all their forms have been a huge success seeing as the public commentary on the issues active support face is at an all time high and many prominent figures in football are calling on the FFA to commit to reform.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Jimmy

[RFC56]

Waleed said denigrative terms like "animals" and others are what football fans are constantly subjected to by the media and are what we don't like. He was talking about the "we stand by the 198" banner and said that while most fans didn't support the actions that caused them to be banned, the media constantly lump us all together with their biased articles and therefore subject us all to guilt by association (my words, not his). He said that the average fan doesn't like to be referred to in such negative terms and therefore have a tenuous alliance with the 198.

The latest article by Wilson is exactly why we feel aggrieved as she lashes out at everyone with an emotion riddled article, using terms like "shame file" to support her biased argument. No, Wilson, it's not a "shame file", that's your term. It's a list of people banned from entering specific stadiums. The only shame involved is that this hack journalist is still employed. I wonder what her reaction would be if the police decided to publish a list of her convictions.

 

[jw1739]

37 minutes ago, RFC56 said:

Waleed said denigrative terms like "animals" and others are what football fans are constantly subjected to by the media and are what we don't like. He was talking about the "we stand by the 198" banner and said that while most fans didn't support the actions that caused them to be banned, the media constantly lump us all together with their biased articles and therefore subject us all to guilt by association (my words, not his). He said that the average fan doesn't like to be referred to in such negative terms and therefore have a tenuous alliance with the 198.

The latest article by Wilson is exactly why we feel aggrieved as she lashes out at everyone with an emotion riddled article, using terms like "shame file" to support her biased argument. No, Wilson, it's not a "shame file", that's your term. It's a list of people banned from entering specific stadiums. The only shame involved is that this hack journalist is still employed. I wonder what her reaction would be if the police decided to publish a list of her convictions.

Wow, that Wilson is a nasty little piece of work isn't she? Now she's attacking Simon Hill, Steven Lowy (still want the job Stevie boy?), John Tsatsimas, and David Gallop. This could now get very interesting.

As for Gerard Whatley and the ABC in general - I gave up on the ABC years ago. City's win over Perth didn't rate a radio mention, but some crappy golf tournament did.

[hedaik]

56 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

City's win over Perth didn't rate a radio mention, but some crappy golf tournament did.

With a crowd figure of 5k and poor TV ratings that doesnt surprise me a whole lot. 

[SF33]

For those that want to read one of the best/most satisfying/deserving takedowns I've ever seen, I urge you to Google "rebecca wilson greg baum". It's surprising that she actually has the gall to think her opinion matters following that.

[jw1739]

Wilson is a repeat offender on driving charges including drink driving and driving without a license.

[kingofhearts]

Are ccm active area protesting as well? I quite enjoy watching their game without having to listen to the marching band that is their active support, who says we protest for another week? C'mon guys! Fk bec Wilson ole ole ole

[Tony999]

5 hours ago, hedaik said:

With a crowd figure of 5k and poor TV ratings that doesnt surprise me a whole lot. 

True. The capacity crowd that generated an electric atmosphere at the golf definitely deserved a mention over us.

[belaguttman]

Interesting article from Outside90 that provides some context. Of course Hatamoto will be monitoring this forum too

Quote

From within, the ugly truth behind A-League active support policing

In Tim Parks’ seminal football book ‘A Season With Verona’, he follows around a group of Northern Italian ultras up and down a country that is monomaniac about football.

Week after week of clashes with police, security and opposition fans, he comes to a pearl of wisdom.

“Football must be never descend into violence. Although, it must always teeter on the brink”.

Thinking of football atmosphere on this imaginary spectrum is probably one of the better ways of articulating the experience of an active supporter. There must be a line. And for most people, that line is rarely crossed. In fact, it’s mostly off to the distance and never even thought about.

Even less dance on it. Sometimes and rarely, a very small minority forcefully step over.

The FFA with incredible active supporter bases in the A-League are faced with a bizarre conundrum. How do you take that electricity, that liquid magic and turn it into a lightning rod for the rest of a country seemingly disinterested in the sport, without giving it conditions to have the odd moron run amok?

Before I belt them senselessly over it, I will give them this – it’s not an easy answer. Even the most vibrant and colourful supporter league in the world, the Bundesliga, currently faces a spate of fan protests over policing methods and protocols.

But there are four parties involved in the FFA’s security policy – the FFA, Hatamoto, State Police and stadium security. Individually, they have all played a part in arguably one of the greatest sporting administration failures in this country.

They have presided and implemented shambolic policies that have resulted in a position where a vote of no-confidence in the hierarchy exists at most A-League clubs and the inner circle of Australian football media. Bit by bit, this is how it all unravelled and ended up with Melbourne Victory and Western Sydney Wanderers fans walking out on their own teams.

FFA 

The reality is, the FFA are too interested in outside stakeholders to protect their own. Yes, it is critical to convert new fans and manage your own image. You’re a business, it’s what you have to do.

But it’s hard-line security policy and no appeal processes for banned fans portrays the self-defeating cycle it’s stuck in. To please Shane the Hawthorn fan calling in on talkback, it asks for an obscene public and private security presence. Then, Shane the Hawthorn fan on talkback points out that the sport is dangerous (despite never wanting or willing to attend), because there’s so many said police and security at games.

It is one of the more moronic feedback loops of logic you’ll ever see from a sporting administration.

‘198 BANS, 0 APPEALS’ North Terrace turn back on pitch from opening whistle. #MVCvADL pic.twitter.com/1680ueIXcZ

— Outside90 (@Outside90) November 28, 2015

Rebecca Wilson may bang on about stopping louts, but the reality of the situation is the FFA has come down so hard on its own, including non-active supporters, that it has alienated nearly everyone. I remember the North Terrace protesting five/six years ago and they were booed by their fellow supporters. On Saturday, they were given a round of applause and named man of the match by the club.

The following is the three parties the FFA have enlisted to take on their bizarrely draconian security policy.

Hatamoto

Hatamoto are a port-security/counter-terrorism firm of mercenaries or ‘private security’ guards.

They have a lucrative contract with the FFA to keep tabs on potential means of trouble. It sounds reasonable in theory, but it’s much darker in practice.

In a nutshell, they come to games in civilian clothing and often film/take photos at length. They likely know most active supporters by name (even if they’ve never broken the rules), they know which group they belong to and which pubs they drink at pre and post-game.

They not only monitor the social media for potential troublemakers, but anyone who has ever tweeted/Facebook posted about active support or even vaguely criticised the FFA that attends games. Their intelligence is largely what fuels the banned list, which is problematic for a range of reasons.

This private company does not adhere to the standards of proof that our police forces do.

People have been banned a range of times because they’ve gotten names and groups wrong, despite not even attending the game. Many of them have not been charged or found a victim of incidents by police and still find themselves banned, because Hatamoto facilitates who’s allowed into the ground.

This relationship needs immediate transparency, as it fuels a large majority of the animosity between active fans and the FFA.

State Police

I have it on good authority that big clubs like Melbourne Victory and the Western Sydney Wanderers are furious with the FFA on this topic. Unless you didn’t know, A-League clubs must foot the police bill. Hundreds and hundreds of officers putting in a large amount of overtime on Saturday’s and Sunday’s, I could imagine is damaging the bottom of line of football clubs.

A police presence is understandable and welcomed, it’s a public event. But to the extent of how many officers that are there during games, you honestly have to begin to wonder whether there is a culture of exploiting the view of soccer within this country to get in an extra weekend shift.

I’ve touched on policing at games before, but it falls into two bizarre extremes. They either look sullen and bored most of the time, or during a particularity fiery day, spend ninety minutes with hands on their guns because they do not understand the reactions of a crowd, positive or negative.

Police lined up inside North Terrace. #mvfc #MVCvADL #aleaguepic.twitter.com/mXoLfj1iuS

— MVFCNEWS (@MVFCNEWS) November 28, 2015

Any arm of the state that causes large dissatisfaction, there is rightly a review into their methods – Centrelink, our health system etc. The police force are largely free from criticism (this doesn’t even take into account more serious matters than football like indigenous deaths in custody) and David Leyonhjelm despite my disagreements with him on other matters, is absolutely correct in reviewing police methods in this country.

I could go into some well-traversed points on what rocking up in riot gear does to crowd psychology or even the fact NSW police (and Wilson) keep using Hillsborough as a reference point, although the tragedy was the fault of law enforcement methods. But there’s no need.

The reality is that what they may do in terms of crowd control, despite their best intentions, actually causes situations to escalate and has a large negative impact on public safety and wellbeing.

Security and Stadiums

AGC, Melbourne’s major events security company  that often attends A-League games should honestly be commended on improving their performance. Years ago they were quite aggressive and caused many problems, including punching a Victory fan (and father) which still remains to this day the ugliest incident I’ve seen at the football.

Aside from the odd overstep (taking down the banner from a group of 16 year olds on Friday night), they’ve improved dramatically and put into a place a policy of hands-off policing, one that has probably occurred from internal dialogue and improvement.

Stadiums weren’t an issue until this week. It’s been well suggested that the source of Rebecca Wilson’s leak was her husband, who is currently a board member on the SCG Trust. A journalist should never reveal their sources, so Wilson has every right to keep that to herself.

But, let me paint a picture. On Friday, the SCG was named as a violent venue, where a good 95% of incidents were non-football related.

It is to my knowledge that the banned list was shopped around to a range of News Corp outlets in the last few weeks – Fox Sports, Peter Rolfe at the Herald Sun (who was overruled from doing the story because of the potential backlash).

Is it a coincidence that the month the SCG Trust ended up on a ‘violent venues’ list, it’s having the finger pointed at it for leaking a list of banned football fans? I don’t know, it depends whether you believe in coincidences I suppose.

In summary, I don’t know where it all goes from here, but it gets worse before it gets better. The first step is admitting there’s a problem. The FFA can’t even do that. As for the other security stakeholders, there just needs to be a re-evaluation their roles on game day and how they can be more efficient.

I have toyed with the idea of sending Senator Leyonhjelm’s office a letter in pitching some form of committee at federal level where active supporter leadership, police, Hatamoto, security, clubs and the FFA come together to hash out an accord. Reality is, I’m in none of those parties and I honestly believe those relationships are damaged beyond repair.

All I ask is that we somehow reach a place where deciding to sit or stand somewhere at a football game, reflects nothing on the content of your character.

What are your thoughts? Let us know by dropping a comment below via our Facebook comment box. Make sure you follow us on Twitter @Outside90 and like us on Facebook

 

Edited November 29, 2015 by belaguttman

[strider]

hi hatamoto

u guys r faggits

im isis

come in me brah

[belaguttman]

2 minutes ago, strider said:

hi hatamoto

u guys r faggits

im isis

come in me brah

strider go getem

[dr lime]

10 hours ago, Jimmy said:

The views of members of any group or organization anywhere in society are always going to be more important to that group than that of those outside of the group throwing insults at them.   If you can't accept that you're going to get quite frustrated with the world.

I agree. But when that group/organisation is a minority and professes to speak and act on behalf of the majority, then they shouldn't get upset when members of the majority pipe up and say "they are not speaking for me". My opinion is as important to me as yours is to you but I'm not saying my opinion is more important than yours, I'm just voicing it. If you don't like it that's fine, I don't like some opinions on here and there are others I do like. But it's an online Forum, so some cut and thrust and overblown hyperbole is expected. I don't even take offence to being called names, it's a Forum, whatever. The problem is that once we get outside the Forum and start taking actions that purport to be on behalf of the majority, it is more serious. You guys may think you are just acting in the interests of "active" supporters but all supporters tend to get lumped in together. Which is why we need to be careful about how we protest as, like it or not, there is the danger that we can all become associated with dickheads who don't deserve our support (like the majority of those who have been banned).  And, like it or not, I believe this is what has happened, to some extent.  

As far as effectiveness of protest goes, when someone who has as good a grasp of sporting issues as Gerard Whately is scratching his head as to what the protests are actually about and trying to achieve, perhaps the message wasn't as clear or effective as it could be. And I have yet to see a grab on TV yet which clearly distinguishes between active supporters and the majority. You talk of "all sorts of road blocks every week just to effectively support the team". Probably all very important and upsetting to you. But the average supporter, who is in the vast majority, doesn't really experience or care about these roadblocks, so protests to help clear these roadblocks (if that's what the protests are even about) for your minority, in the middle of a game, are a bit irrelevent to us. So if I don't agree with you, don't take it personally. But I do take being associated with the majority of the 198 personally, so I will voice my opinion. You are free to disagree, that's as it should be. Yours Sincerely, Arrogant Tosser   

Edited November 29, 2015 by dr lime

[n i k o]

4 minutes ago, dr lime said:

I agree. But when that group/organisation is a minority and professes to speak and act on behalf of the majority, then they shouldn't get upset when members of the majority pipe up and say "they are not speaking for me". My opinion is as important to me as yours is to you but I'm not saying my opinion is more important than yours, I'm just voicing it. If you don't like it that's fine, I don't like some opinions on here and there are others I do like. But it's an online Forum, so some cut and thrust and overblown hyperbole is expected. I don't even take offence to being called names, it's a Forum, whatever. The problem is that once we get outside the Forum and start taking actions that purport to be on behalf of the majority, it is more serious. You guys may think you are just acting in the interests of "active" supporters but all supporters tend to get lumped in together. Which is why we need to be careful about how we protest as, like it or not, there is the danger that we can all become associated with dickheads who don't deserve our support (like the majority of those who have been banned).  And, like it or not, I believe this is what has happened, to some extent.  

As far as effectiveness of protest goes, when someone who has as good a grasp of sporting issues as Gerard Whately is scratching his head as to what the protests are actually about and trying to achieve, perhaps the message wasn't as clear or effective as it could be. And I have yet to see a grab on TV yet which clearly distinguishes between active supporters and the majority. You talk of "all sorts of road blocks every week just to effectively support the team". Probably all very important and upsetting to you. But the average supporter, who is in the vast majority, doesn't really experience or care about these roadblocks, so protests to help clear these roadblocks (if that's what the protests are even about) for your minority, in the middle of a game, are a bit irrelevent to us. So if I don't agree with you, don't take it personally. But I do take being associated with the majority of the 198 personally, so I will voice my opinion. You are free to disagree, that's as it should be. Yours Sincerely, Arrogant Tosser   

I'd like to know exactly where any Melburnians representative has said the protest is on behalf of anyone but those in active support?  Maybe I missed it somewhere. 

 

[belaguttman]

sorry dr lime, but Gerard Wheatley, like most so-called sports reporters knows bugger all about football and even less than that about fan culture. He's a picket fence & white sliced bread footy-cricket-rugby-tennis-netball kinda sports reporter. He might report on football (soccer to him) but he has no understanding as your post points out.

Edited November 29, 2015 by belaguttman

[Jimmy]

58 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I'd like to know exactly where any Melburnians representative has said the protest is on behalf of anyone but those in active support?  Maybe I missed it somewhere. 

This. It was an awful big wall of text to complain about something that never happened.

I also have nothing to do with Melburnians. I actually have four reserved seats on the wing.

[belaguttman]

It looks like the Melburnians banner os getting quite a bit of coverage. This is from TWG

Quote

Charlesworth backs rebellious A-League fans

Melbourne City fans protest during their side's 5-1 win over Perth Glory (Getty) 

 

Australia's football fans have won the PR war

Congratulations to the football fans of Australia, you are now a force.

Speaking amid a wave of fan protests over the list of 198 banned football fans which was leaked to News Corporation, Charlesworth said “issues of anti-social behaviour had been blown complete out of proportion.”

While FFA has so far declined to speak out in support of fans under fire, despite a raft of privacy issues being breached, Charlesworth instead turned the blowtorch on rugby league, insisting: “There is probably more anti-social behaviour from rugby league players during a season than football fans, so we need to put things into perspective.

"There are certain sections of the media with an agenda and it's only right for fans to voice their concerns and protect their rights.

"They are the most important stakeholders football has and to single out a couple of minor incidents during a season is misleading and completely irresponsible. “

1000 Victory fans stage A-League walkout

Melbourne Victory's active supporter group has followed through on its threat to walk out of the club's A-League match against Adelaide United.

The Mariners take on Western Sydney Wanderers in Gosford on Sunday, with the visitor's active fans group – the Red and Black Bloc – declaring their intention to walk out en masse at some point during the game in protest at FFA’s perceived disregard of supporters.

Up to half the names leaked on the banned list were Wanderers fans, who until an about-face from FFA during the week, had been informed there was no right of appeal to bans many claim have been imposed on spurious grounds at best.

Exposed Wanderers fan speaks out after FFA ban costs him his job

EXCLUSIVE: Julian Cumbo was fired by his employer a day after he featured in a leaked list of 198 football supporters banned from attending games in Australia and New Zealand by Football Federation Australia, in Sunday's press.

Charlesworth has nothing but admiration for the atmosphere generated by the Wanderland faithful, and is hoping that nobody is deterred from heading to Gosford amidst what amounts to a rebellion against the governing body’s lack of engagement with active fan groups throughout the league.

“We’ve never had any major issues from thousands of Wanderers fans visiting our stadium in the last three years and I appeal for everyone to come and experience a wonderful atmosphere and entertaining match this Sunday at Central Coast Stadium," he said.

"I would encourage Wanderers fans to come in even greater numbers than normal and frankly how they protest is up to them.

"Fans shouldn’t have their banners removed (as was the case in Melbourne City’s clash against Perth Glory on Friday night) unless messages are offensive.

"We should be encouraging more colour and vocal support just as you get across all the major leagues in the world."

 

[Herman Cain]

1 hour ago, belaguttman said:

sorry dr lime, but Gerard Wheatley, like most so-called sports reporters knows bugger all about football and even less than that about fan culture. He's a picket fence & white sliced bread footy-cricket-rugby-tennis-netball kinda sports reporter. He might report on football (soccer to him) but he has no understanding as your post points out.

This is absolutely true and very well put.  I like the guy as a presenter/commentator but he's often cringeworthy when he talks about football.    

[n i k o]

NEWS, SQUADRON

SQUADRON LAUNCH EMAIL & BOYCOTT CAMPAIGN

NOVEMBER 29, 2015 FURNS LEAVE A COMMENT

We are now officially launching the email and boycott campaign we recently proposed, and its an initiative that we hope the football fraternity can join with us and get behind. The reasons behind the campaign are listed here  http://www.newcastlefootball.net/home/2015/11/squadron-statement-time-to-hit-them-where-it-hurts/

We ask that you go to this website http://nmfb01.azurewebsites.net/ to fill in a form with your name and email address. This site will automatically email the Daily Telegraph calling for them to sack Rebecca Wilson and issue an apology, email 2GB to call for them to force Alan Jones to issue an on-air retraction and apology, and email 2GB sponsors to either pull their funding or lobby 2GB to force Jones to issue an on-air retraction. Simply select the entities you wish to email, read through the statement and hit send. Its that easy.

Any show or media outlet that hosts Rebecca Wilson and her toxic views also needs to be emailed separately to immediately drop her as a resource. Currently the two other media outlets we know of who have used Rebecca Wilson recently are:
SEN Radio Melbourne – enquiries@sen.com.au
Sky News (Sports Night program) –
http://www.skynews.com.au/connect/your-say.html
Feel free to contact these email addresses to inform them of the current situation regarding Rebecca Wilson and that you will be boycotting them until she is dropped from their business.

We call on ALL A-League clubs to immediately blacklist News Limited publications and websites (Except FoxSports), end any advertising or sponsorship arrangements and refuse to deal with them until such times as they remove Rebecca Wilson from their employ and approach future articles regarding football in a fair, balanced and researched manner.

We also call for a total boycott of News Limited publications from football supporters. Dont buy their papers and dont click their links online. If we can cost them enough advertising money through decreased circulation and website clicks, they will have to change their ways to try to win the customers back they have lost.

Hopefully, with enough people sending these emails and boycotting their businesses, we will be able to force some real change and the Daily Telegraph, 2GB, Rebecca Wilson, Alan Jones and 2GB will remember next time to provide some balance in their reporting on football matters.

We will continue working with other supporters groups to directly lobby the FFA to come out immediately (and in future) to defend football supporters in response to anti-football media articles, for the treatment and engagement of all football supporters to improve and for the FFA to begin meeting with supporters clubs representatives to co-operatively rework the banning system to ensure procedural fairness and transparency.

We would ask that you share this article to as many football media personalities, actual journalists without anti-football agendas and your fellow football supporters as possible to spread the word and get this movement off the ground.

They will Never Tear Us Apart

Squadron Novocastria

[n i k o]

Rohan Connolly, prominent AFL reporter, speaks of the recent events regarding the game and the reporting of the game in the media. Very well spoken, worth a listen. 

https://audioboom.com/boos/3877158-rohan-connolly-on-the-daily-telegraph

[Jimmy]

It seems like the vast majority of the masses are correctly interpreting the point of the protest, Who'd have thought?