InMyHeart Posted January 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Players dont like long travels for training... have to be inner city Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viva el City Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Inner City would fit with their vision for Man City (and by assumption their vision for Melbourne). A club which is quite literally the Heart of the community and city. Edited January 27, 2014 by Viva el City Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Players dont like long travels for training... have to be inner city Understand. And it's also easier for the media to swing past for puff pieces during the week. But then it's a question of whether you have to sacrifice distance for size. Of course if we can build exactly what we want within 5km of the CBD, we should do it. How much land do people think would be needed? Could a dormant AFL training HQ (Glenferrie, Moorabbin) be converted or wouldn't they be big enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ando Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 FIsherman's Bend, as I understand, has been shopped around by the State Government for quite some time. Our current Planning Minister is a bit of a stooge, but that might mean he sees the dollar signs pop up in his head if any offer from us came up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 FIsherman's Bend, as I understand, has been shopped around by the State Government for quite some time. Our current Planning Minister is a bit of a stooge, but that might mean he sees the dollar signs pop up in his head if any offer from us came up. He'll be all for it, if we promise to make it 50+ storeys high. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Why not just have the training grounds and the youth development centre in different parts of Melbourne? That way we can try and get somewhere central in Melbourne for the players to train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huzie Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) What about that VIS area next to John Cain? Edited January 27, 2014 by Huzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InMyHeart Posted January 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 FIsherman's Bend, as I understand, has been shopped around by the State Government for quite some time. Our current Planning Minister is a bit of a stooge, but that might mean he sees the dollar signs pop up in his head if any offer from us came up. Yeah get it done i say, not a bad location Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestay Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 with the new training facilities that are about to open in the summer at City, ADUG were at an advantage building close to the stadium due to the fact the immediate area was so run down . the land was virtually derelict even after the commonwealth games were held there, the local council were happy to give planning permission for the project, it does seem that ADUG like brown sites that can be redeveloped into new use and also benefit the local residents ie.. jobs better living conditions etc etc in fact i think there was clauses given to the developers and builders that a percentage of local people had to be employed on the project , oh yea get used to the word project, that is the word that is the cornerstone of everything !!! Anything to do with what is going on at our clubs is wrapped up in the title " the project " its not meant or used in a derogatory term its just the phrase that encompasses everything that is happening . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedukeofhearts Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) with the new training facilities that are about to open in the summer at City, ADUG were at an advantage building close to the stadium due to the fact the immediate area was so run down . the land was virtually derelict even after the commonwealth games were held there, the local council were happy to give planning permission for the project, it does seem that ADUG like brown sites that can be redeveloped into new use and also benefit the local residents ie.. jobs better living conditions etc etc in fact i think there was clauses given to the developers and builders that a percentage of local people had to be employed on the project , oh yea get used to the word project, that is the word that is the cornerstone of everything !!! Anything to do with what is going on at our clubs is wrapped up in the title " the project " its not meant or used in a derogatory term its just the phrase that encompasses everything that is happening . as long as the don't keep ending everything with #believe. Nothing is worse than when you haven't won for about 2 years and they end everything with just #believe ARGH !!!! It's on every email and tweet etc. Edited January 27, 2014 by thedukeofhearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 E Gate.http://www.majorprojects.vic.gov.au/our-projects/our-current-projects/e-gate City of Melbourne should be doing what they can to make it happen. If not EGate, then somewhere in Docklands or Fishermans Bend in an attempt to inject some life into the area. Fremantle Dockers had City of Cockburn and City of Fremantle basically fighting over each other to get their new state of the art training facility in their suburbs. We could hijack Demons plans: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/demons-for-docklands-elliott-20120920-269jf.html Think the demons plan plot may be the vacant bit of grass land I suggested before, would be a good spot, inner city in a growing area. When I first saw the E gate suggestion I thought you were being funny (though I couldn't work out how) ala water gate... nope just me being an idiot. But that looks like a great spot too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 There used to be a big vacant bit of land near Melbourne uni, just had a few derelect buildings. The cave clan used to run about the tunnels there, it would have been good. But now I think about it, I think that's where the museum got built - correct me if I am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 with the new training facilities that are about to open in the summer at City, ADUG were at an advantage building close to the stadium due to the fact the immediate area was so run down . the land was virtually derelict even after the commonwealth games were held there, the local council were happy to give planning permission for the project, it does seem that ADUG like brown sites that can be redeveloped into new use and also benefit the local residents ie.. jobs better living conditions etc etc in fact i think there was clauses given to the developers and builders that a percentage of local people had to be employed on the project , oh yea get used to the word project, that is the word that is the cornerstone of everything !!! Anything to do with what is going on at our clubs is wrapped up in the title " the project " its not meant or used in a derogatory term its just the phrase that encompasses everything that is happening . as long as the don't keep ending everything with #believe. Nothing is worse than when you haven't won for about 2 years and they end everything with just #believe ARGH !!!! It's on every email and tweet etc. Yes, and they're still doing it. It's so juvenile and a dreadful turn-off. That's why I want new administrative staff to come in and start treating supporters and potential supporters like adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulski Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I know StKilda Footy Club and the local council are thinking of redeveloping their Moorabbin headquarters as a part time training base, cos they're outgrowing their Seaford site. There's a lot of vacant land around it too, could be handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imonyarraside Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 FIsherman's Bend, as I understand, has been shopped around by the State Government for quite some time. Our current Planning Minister is a bit of a stooge, but that might mean he sees the dollar signs pop up in his head if any offer from us came up. He'll be all for it, if we promise to make it 50+ storeys high. Haha spot on! Would be a smart investment of our owners really, buy up a huge chunk of Fisherman's Bend, build a world class training facility and develop the remaining land with high rise residential buildings to quickly reap some money back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedukeofhearts Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 The should also build a free fan hotel for country folk or interstate fans that don't have to travel back that same night as the game yeah, I'm being a bit greedy now 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 One problem with existingf AFL grounds is that during the summer period (that is now) they are also used by cricket clubs and in winter by local AFL clubs. So unless an AFL ground is totally vacant then it may prove difficult. This was thereason that MHT knocked back Windy Hill at Essendon. People are mentioning Fishermen's bend and the location is OK but the problem may be that the state government has earmarked this are for future residential development. Also a fair bit of fishermens bend has been redeveloped as commercial. TBH I have no idea what this state government has in mind for the area. And I will keep pushing the area on the west side of the West Gate Bridge. Fits in with redeveloping brown field sites, great promotion as anyone driving on the West Gate Bridge will see the logo, traffic reports will always capture the logo, 15 minutes top to the CBD, 25 minutes tops to AAMI Park, 40 minutes to the airport, 40 minutes to Brighton (this accomodates Kewell or any other marquee), etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 as long as the don't keep ending everything with #believe. Nothing is worse than when you haven't won for about 2 years and they end everything with just #believe ARGH !!!! It's on every email and tweet etc. with the new training facilities that are about to open in the summer at City, ADUG were at an advantage building close to the stadium due to the fact the immediate area was so run down . the land was virtually derelict even after the commonwealth games were held there, the local council were happy to give planning permission for the project, it does seem that ADUG like brown sites that can be redeveloped into new use and also benefit the local residents ie.. jobs better living conditions etc etc in fact i think there was clauses given to the developers and builders that a percentage of local people had to be employed on the project , oh yea get used to the word project, that is the word that is the cornerstone of everything !!! Anything to do with what is going on at our clubs is wrapped up in the title " the project " its not meant or used in a derogatory term its just the phrase that encompasses everything that is happening . Yes, and they're still doing it. It's so juvenile and a dreadful turn-off. That's why I want new administrative staff to come in and start treating supporters and potential supporters like adults. I'm not a big fan of marketing departments, believe me, but I sort of feel sorry for ours, given the substandard product we've been putting out. It can't be fun to have to go through the level of vitriol that's directed at them on Facebook every time they post something, following a loss and our players would have rarely given them an easy week in-season, over the past year. They're really on a hiding to nothing. They can either keep putting the #believe stuff out and look a bit stupid, or stop putting it out and give the impression that those on the inside of the club have given up on the season. And I acknowledge that it looks stupid at the moment, but if the goal is still to push for the top six, as has been stated (prior to Sidwell leaving, but I'm sure they're still sticking with it), they don't really have a choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 The other problem with much of the Fishermans Bend area is an engineering one, its a river delta, the ground is silt and the water table is quite high. That means that footings need to be very deep and substantial or that you don't build so high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 as long as the don't keep ending everything with #believe. Nothing is worse than when you haven't won for about 2 years and they end everything with just #believe ARGH !!!! It's on every email and tweet etc. with the new training facilities that are about to open in the summer at City, ADUG were at an advantage building close to the stadium due to the fact the immediate area was so run down . the land was virtually derelict even after the commonwealth games were held there, the local council were happy to give planning permission for the project, it does seem that ADUG like brown sites that can be redeveloped into new use and also benefit the local residents ie.. jobs better living conditions etc etc in fact i think there was clauses given to the developers and builders that a percentage of local people had to be employed on the project , oh yea get used to the word project, that is the word that is the cornerstone of everything !!! Anything to do with what is going on at our clubs is wrapped up in the title " the project " its not meant or used in a derogatory term its just the phrase that encompasses everything that is happening . Yes, and they're still doing it. It's so juvenile and a dreadful turn-off. That's why I want new administrative staff to come in and start treating supporters and potential supporters like adults. I'm not a big fan of marketing departments, believe me, but I sort of feel sorry for ours, given the substandard product we've been putting out. It can't be fun to have to go through the level of vitriol that's directed at them on Facebook every time they post something, following a loss and our players would have rarely given them an easy week in-season, over the past year. They're really on a hiding to nothing. They can either keep putting the #believe stuff out and look a bit stupid, or stop putting it out and give the impression that those on the inside of the club have given up on the season. And I acknowledge that it looks stupid at the moment, but if the goal is still to push for the top six, as has been stated (prior to Sidwell leaving, but I'm sure they're still sticking with it), they don't really have a choice. They could have tried #we'reshitbutwe'retrying or now they could use #we'reshitbutimproving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schrecky Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I know StKilda Footy Club and the local council are thinking of redeveloping their Moorabbin headquarters as a part time training base, cos they're outgrowing their Seaford site. There's a lot of vacant land around it too, could be handy. I like the Seaford idea, plenty of room out there. The council donated 3 million to develop that bit of land, and there is plenty of room for expansion if saints move out. Another alternate would be to develop Saints old ground in moorabin (don't think they need 2 grounds) and its close to the train As much as we like to think their will be a bottomless pit of money, i cannot see them over capitalising to much on our team. Im sure plenty of councils may line up now , where they didn't previously. (No guarantee though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heart of Melbourne Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Victoria park!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 The other problem with much of the Fishermans Bend area is an engineering one, its a river delta, the ground is silt and the water table is quite high. That means that footings need to be very deep and substantial or that you don't build so high This is a fixable problem with known solutions. The issue then becomes does the club spend money on concrete foundations or on player foundations? For me spend it on players! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I still think LaTrobe is the obvious site out of all those mentioned so far. Has the space. Any development costs there are much lower than somewhere else. Can be developed much sooner. Probably not much NIMBY there. OK, so public transport is an issue. A lot easier to fix that than worry about rehabilitating derelict land etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 The other problem with much of the Fishermans Bend area is an engineering one, its a river delta, the ground is silt and the water table is quite high. That means that footings need to be very deep and substantial or that you don't build so high This is a fixable problem with known solutions. The issue then becomes does the club spend money on concrete foundations or on player foundations? For me spend it on players! Its fixable, just expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FB. Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Based on the level of investment being touted, I think the new owners will look to acquire a large industrial site, that they will transform into their own precinct. They will need to go through a rezoning process, so they will need good partnerships with the Local Government of the area they choose, as well as State Government. Looking at the Manchester example, I think they will look within 10km of the city, and at somewhere with good PT and transport connections, perhaps also well located in terms of access to the airport. I think also, they will reserve space on their site for a future stadium. I think you could get such a site for say $10-$15 million. You'd probably spend that again getting out of the ground. You can build a full size FIFA 2 star astro turf pitch for around $3 million, so I reckon say 6 pitches, with a youth stadium, head admin building, gym, etc say $50-$60 million ... and then by start up time, you may have spent $100 million. On cost per year, including the 1st team say $15million. That's huge dollars, but the owners only need a few players every year or so who go through this system to end up good enough to be worth reasonable money on the transfer market, and given they will be scouting so far and wide, they could potentially start seeing a ROI within 15-20 years. For our new owners, this type of spend in the context of their net worth is a drop in the ocean ... Given what they have been prepared to spend on Manchester City, it's low risk chicken feed, that in the end will make them more wealth. These guys really do understand to make money, you need to spend money, and this is what they are doing right now globally, and before the oil dries up. I reckon things would be advancing behind the scenes rapidly at State level and I can't wait to find out how things play out. As an aside, one thing I hope our new owners strive for is the inaugural FFA cup. To win this would be historic. :hkpalm: Do you seriously think the new owners will spend 100+ million dollars just on a training facility for us??? They've already said they'd spend money on us that's relative too the league. They bought the licence for 10 mill they're hardly going to spend ten times that on a training facility for us. Some massive cases of grandeur going on ITT tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntiScum Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) There is plenty of land available in the western suburbs in your new estates such as the likes of Point Cook, Tarneit, Derrimut, Caroline Springs the Tullamarine Airport surrounds is another location that comes to mind and going out as far as Little River. the upside is its only 20-25km from the CBD, price would be cheap enough for the size they would be after. The only objection I have against La Trobe is why would you want to associate yourself with a uni when the wealthy owners can do what is they want!! I have no doubt the Government would be licking their lips and would be in touch with city for what ever location they want at a price of course!! Edited January 28, 2014 by AntiScum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn Asunder Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) For a serious construction project $100 million is actually not a massive amount in terms of what it buys you. Yes, to you and me, it seems like a ridiculous amount of cash, but these types of $$$ and more are being spent all the time by much smaller players in Aus all the time...some Councils are even spending in the millions on facilities such as Leisure centres, etc. Time will tell as to how much the sheik spends, but the dollars quoted are not out of the realms of possibility, and I reckon these guys won't frig around for the sake of a few million ... they will pay to get what they want and what they need, and they can certainly afford to do do. Edited January 28, 2014 by Torn Asunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think we can realistically expect between 30-50mil so that suggests that it will be in a location that already has limited facilities.......unless we kick out victory! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) I think the planned Casey football pitches (the 'Casey Soccer Centre of Excellence') is a pretty similar project to what Heart might build: - Four fully floodlit synthetic pitches - A large pavilion (eight change rooms etc.) allowing all pitches to be used at once - "A high quality turf pitch and covered spectator seating for 500 people" (a " Football Federation Victoria Class A level facility"). (http://www.casey.vic.gov.au/arts-leisure/sport-leisure/facilities/casey-fields/master-plan) All this for less than $20 million (specifically $19.467 million). Heart would presumably have all pitches be proper turf pitches, though. Given that there's only so many locations in Melbourne where Heart could establish 3 to 5 quality pitches (and maybe a few more, who knows), I reckon La Trobe might be the go. The university has planned to upgrade the facilities with Heart since the beginning of the partnership, so it shouldn't take long at all to start building (like JW said, no NIMBY), and given that it's already cleared grassy land Heart's training facilities could maybe be built pretty quickly (hopefully in several months, so we can use them next season. Or at least enough of the facilities could maybe be build by next season to train on). Building completely new training facilities elsewhere could be great too, but I think a big redevelopment out at La Trobe is very practical and could provide Heart with top class facilities, maybe inside the $15 million to $30 million dollar price range. Edited January 28, 2014 by Murfy1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellum Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) The mariners centre of excellence cost them $60 million. Cheaper to build on the Central coast but still a decent amount of money. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8suUUrFFuMg Edited January 28, 2014 by Rellum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FB. Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 For a serious construction project $100 million is actually not a massive amount in terms of what it buys you. Yes, to you and me, it seems like a ridiculous amount of cash, but these types of $$$ and more are being spent all the time by much smaller players in Aus all the time...some Councils are even spending in the millions on facilities such as Leisure centres, etc. Time will tell as to how much the sheik spends, but the dollars quoted are not out of the realms of possibility, and I reckon these guys won't frig around for the sake of a few million ... they will pay to get what they want and what they need, and they can certainly afford to do do.Would love to know which councils are spending a hundred mill on leisure centres :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ando Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Casey is spending $125mil on a new cultural precinct, Cardinia is doing the same but on the cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedukeofhearts Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 In bendigo we spent 7-8million on a mall which is basically a few bricks that looks like a runway and some toilets I'm assuming what city is going to build would cost a lot more than that !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestr Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) It's very interesting why city group has not gone to South America before Australia. If they willing to spend money on training and developing academy, why not go to a place where you get real estate for a lot less $$$$$, not to mention talent available there is beyond anything this country had produced. Realistically, if I was scouting for potentially high earning talent I would be looking at brazil, Argentina, etc where kids spend the time chasing a rag ball from the time they can walk. It's a way of life Here, you'll need to convince youngsters that ps3 and Xbox FIFA is not going to develop their football skills enough to join world's elite Edited January 28, 2014 by Jestr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Don't forget they were government projects so half the money would have been pissed against the wall on dodgy union officials and tradesman. A private Enterprise will seek the best possible price 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Casey is spending $125mil on a new cultural precinct, Cardinia is doing the same but on the cheap. In bendigo we spent 7-8million on a mall which is basically a few bricks that looks like a runway and some toilets I'm assuming what city is going to build would cost a lot more than that !! Anything that involves any of the three levels of government in Australia is at a grossly inflated cost. E.g. Federation Square, Southern Cross Station roof, even AAMI Park. As a local example Bayside City Council is spending $218,000 on improvements to Hampton Street - involves removing car-parking spaces and putting in a bit of extra kerbing and pavement, a few trees and a few seats. Unbelievable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartFc Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 For a serious construction project $100 million is actually not a massive amount in terms of what it buys you. Yes, to you and me, it seems like a ridiculous amount of cash, but these types of $$$ and more are being spent all the time by much smaller players in Aus all the time...some Councils are even spending in the millions on facilities such as Leisure centres, etc. Time will tell as to how much the sheik spends, but the dollars quoted are not out of the realms of possibility, and I reckon these guys won't frig around for the sake of a few million ... they will pay to get what they want and what they need, and they can certainly afford to do do. Would love to know which councils are spending a hundred mill on leisure centres :huh: Well I'm paying $2250 in rates per year so thats a start... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellum Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 The mariners centre of excellence cost them $60 million. Cheaper to build on the Central coast but still a decent amount of money. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8suUUrFFuMg Sorry video link working now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 It's very interesting why city group has not gone to South America before Australia. If they willing to spend money on training and developing academy, why not go to a place where you get real estate for a lot less $$$$$, not to mention talent available there is beyond anything this country had produced. Realistically, if I was scouting for potentially high earning talent I would be looking at brazil, Argentina, etc where kids spend the time chasing a rag ball from the time they can walk. It's a way of life Here, you'll need to convince youngsters that ps3 and Xbox FIFA is not going to develop their football skills enough to join world's elite South America is not as cheap as you may think. The big clubs in the big countries such as Brazil are worth a mint and the land in Sao Paulo or Rio or Buenos Aires or Santiago is not cheap. It may actually be more expensive than Melbourne. Secondly these clubs are already owned by local oligarchs (status symbols) so they are unlikely to sell. Since the philosophy the CFG is to establish themselves in world cities that leaves the smaller regional clubs out of the question. Ditto for less significant countries such as Bolivia. Finally over there the market is saturated and will people buy Man City gear as they would in Australia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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