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Before we think about increasing the cap significantly or ever scrapping it all together, how about a lot of clubs concentrate on crowd averages over 10K. Ours included. Then a extended cap may become feasible.

With success comes a following, which increases crowd attendances, which increases sponsorship, which media coverage, which attracts better players and finally increases a salary cap  

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The cap is 2.7 now?

The German fullback, 27, is convinced the $2.7 million salary ceiling

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2014/05/25/clubless-polenz-urges-league-change-cap

"It is possible I could go to another A-league club but, right now, I am not sure what is the best offer for me. I will look with my heart, and also my mind, and then decide."

It has been written. The football gods have spoken.

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Whilst a few rich clubs like Melbourne Heart and Sydney FC could do without the salary cap, the salary cap is there to promote the sustainability and the well-being of the league as a whole, and not the sustainability and well-being of a few clubs. It sounded similar to me when Khaldoon spoke about the FFP. He was sure right that Man City's business model might be sustainable for his club, but that doesn't mean that the way Man City and other rich clubs conduct their business is sustainable and good for the well-being of European football competitions, and European football, as a whole.

 

 

A side benefit of the salary cap is that it does increase competition in the A-League to a degree, meaning clubs with very limited resources, like Central Coast, can challenge to finish up the top of the table, and can even win silverware. That shows that the A-League is impressively meritocratic. And because of the salary cap the A-League is not conducive to dynasties, as seen with Berisha leaving Brisbane and Polenz leaving WSW. Some of that is to be expected in a competitive competition with a salary cap, although I think the salary cap is probably too effective in that regard, and too many good players leave their A-League clubs after achieving success.

 

 

The salary cap will be negotiated next season for 2015/16 and beyond. As long as there isn't serious financial instability (in particular watch out for CCM and Newcastle), a pretty significant boost in the salary cap is likely IMO (maybe an increase between $500k to $1m). As for the salary cap overall, unless the A-League experiences really rapid growth over the next few years, with stability at all A-League clubs, I expect the salary cap to be around in some form in 5, or even 10 years, time.

 

 

this.

 

one of the big problems we have short term is knowing where and when some cities can enter the comp is the biggest challenge.

 

but let me digress.

 

i live in Mildura. before that Ballarat.  people dont get how isolated we actually are in this country, let alone this state.  it is actually easier for me to drive to Adelaide than Melbourne, but what can i say ... i'm all Heart.

 

the point is; Victoria itself is unable to create a spot locally (at least currently) that is bigger than the area of the CCM (outside of Melbourne of course).

 

in fact, if we go by by population, Geelong is roughly half the size of Gosford - the 'home' of the CCM.

 

now i dont mean to say Geelong should never get a team.

 

only that Australia can't reallly support more than more than 10 teams.

 

after all Geelong is actually one of Australia's top 12 cities / towns (FWI bigger than Townsville).

 

getting back to the point, i dont see the A League expanding easily outside its current cities.  in the short term, this provides two problems; 

(a) where do you go since the CCM already struggle - that is why should Geelong, Townsville, etc., get one when CCM already struggle ?

(b.) who would support since the two cities with more than one team already have one club with identity / attendance issues?

 

as such the salary cap does do its job.

 

this does open another can of worms, but back on topic why would the A League raise minimum wages? it only makes it harder to enter the market.  and with 10 teams playing each other three times each, surely the game here is not yet developed to really push tv rights / advertising.

 

******************************

 

completely back on topic, i more than anything just want to go to games next season and watch some good footy 

Edited by mattyh001
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"The cap is low so clubs don't go broke." We were told the salary cap was NOT brought in to equalise the competition.

 

The A League has grown and attracted super wealthy owners.

 

Clearly a $2.5 million salary cap is absurd for clubs with multi billionaire owners such as Brisbane Roar, Sydney FC and Melbourne Heart.

 

 

Well one of the effects of having caps is that it does equalise the competition and simultaneously it does provide for clubs to remain solvent.

The problem is with smaller clubs such as the jets, CCM,  PG and prior to the takeover, Heart, that they can never provide competitive teams if there was no salary cap.

Even the AFL was moved to introduce caps in order to provide better all round entertainment. As I keep reminding people, in 2012 the Melbourne Demons vs Port Power attracted less than 6,000 people to the MCG. Eddie McGuire relayed the sentiments of the Magpies squad that playing the Demons was demoralising for the club. So I doubt that the A-League can grow big enough that it would not face the problems that the AFL has faced.

And finally with regards to super wealthy owners - well sports clubs are a side interest or community service. If their main line of business gets into trouble or they lose interest the sports venture comes to a swift end. Examples are Clive Palmer of GCU, Nathan Tinkler and the HSG (having just relinquished the rugby team and sold the horse farm) and Sir Elton John with Watford in the UK. So if somebody discovers an alternative to crude oil the football salaries will drop very quickly.

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Well NewConvert.. Luckily for us I don´t think a guy like Sheikh Mansour invests billions in CFG and see it as a side interest or community service, especially as it once was stated that it was A) Something that he loved, football that is.. B) Part of his goal of having a diversified portfolio of assets
If the unlikely happened and crude oil got worthless tomorrow his assets in UAE will take a dive but to be honest these kind of guys went global with their money more than 30 years ago. Real estate in New York, banks in Europe, mines in Brazil, airlines in Gulf, chemical industries in Canada, parking meters in Chigago etc etc.

 

But yes, I see your point about having a somewhat level playing field to allow minor markets a chance to support a club, nothing wrong with that.
 

Edited by M13
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NC, it's worth mentioning that the main reason Mansour bought City and is so aggressively pursuing bringing the club up to the top level is because City is essentially acting as a "loss leader" for the whole the the UAE. The Emiratis haven't been slow by any means to realise that the oil will not last forever, so they are currently attempting (and with a fair bit of success, one might add) to channel the huge profits they've made from the oil fields into essentially buying a more modern economy for their country. They're diversifying off into numerous other fields with the aim of making these business interests strong enough that when the oil does run out, they can shift their outlook entirely into the businesses they've built up or invested in around the world and fund themselves through them instead, like a multimillionaire who sells his original company because he has already moved into a different industry.

 

City's place in this - as the loss leader - is to essentially be the flagship of the entire enterprise. The loss leader is not designed to be the biggest or most profitable element but is instead designed to be the company which generates publicity for the rest of the business empire, thereby driving clients and money into the open arms of the other companies. Hence why Etihad is piggybacking on City's success atm by painting City's badge and name all over its planes, and why when Mansour or any other Abu Dhabi royals go somewhere to discuss business, they generally tend to start the conversation by talking about football. Given what I've seen, I have a tendency to believe that Mansour, Khaldoon and all the other non-City Emiratis who are involved in this are all doing fairly well from their investments into other industries.

Edited by Falastur
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But Falastur.. MCFC will by no means remain a "loss leader", it was just a temporary stage to frog march an underachieving club to the top. Which somehow takes us back to Melbourne again.. ;)

 

Well true, but if it weren't for FFPR being forced upon us I don't think you'd have seen our board ever give two hoots about breaking even. Sure, they'd be looking to recoup some costs through market value sponsorships and merchandising, but they'd have spent what they wanted to on transfers, rather than what UEFA wants us to. If that meant losing £100m every season all the way to the year 2040 then so be it, so long as it generated £200m every year for the UAE in the same period. And if we won a trophy every season doing it then that's just perfect.

 

Anyway, as you point out that is no longer the case as FFPR has changed everything.

Edited by Falastur
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Yes, it is often reported that CCM struggle financially, and there have been occasions when they have been reported as being strapped for cash to keep on time with player wages. But I would have placed them as possibly the current leader in community development with their $40m "Centre of Excellence" at Tuggerah. Part of that has come from  government grant, but they must be putting up a lot of the cash themselves.

 

Another point I'd like to mention in this discussion is that from next season on FFA is, if I understand it correctly, going to meet most, if not all, of the present salary cap from the income from the new TV deal. So I would have thought that that of itself ought to enable a significant rise in the cap from here on.

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http://m.footballaustralia.com.au/melbourne-heart-news-display/Vant-Schip-Finalises-Coaching-Roles/90665/309

 

Melbourne Heart FC Head Coach John van’t Schip has finalised his coaching support staff for the forthcoming Hyundai A-League 2014-15 season, led by the appointment of Championship-winning Brisbane Roar assistant coach, Luciano Trani.

Trani will join Melbourne Heart as its Senior Assistant Coach, fresh from helping steer Roar to a Premiers Plate and Championship double during the 2013-14 season.


A former assistant at Wellington Phoenix and Adelaide United, Trani joins with a proven track record in the A-League.

 

“We are very fortunate to have a well-respected and highly motivated coach like Luc to help build the Club both now and in the future,” van’t Schip said.

“Luc has had success with Brisbane last season but also got excellent results at the other clubs he has been involved with. He is a proven winner and will ensure we get as much out of our players as possible.”

Melbourne Heart’s Foxtel National Youth League team will again be led by Joe Palatsides for the upcoming season, with the former Socceroo heading into his third season at the helm.

In addition to Trani, Football Federation Australia elite junior coach Ivan Jolic will join as Assistant Coach to van’t Schip, joining remaining Assistant Coach Joey Didulica.

Jolic has worked with the state’s most talented junior players as the Victorian head of the FFA’s Skills Acquisition Program for the past four years, while Didulica continues to build on an accomplished playing career in which he worked under the likes of 2014 FIFA World Cup coaches Louis van Gaal (the Netherlands) and Joachim Low (Germany).

“I am happy with the balance of the coaching staff we have for next season,” van’t Schip said.

“There is a great mix of experience and skills and a solid understanding of the game at a local, national and international level.

“We are confident that we will get the most out of the senior and youth players with these coaches.”

In addition to bringing high quality national experience to the Club, all four support staff are locally-bred coaches with a deep and tangible connection to grassroots football in Victoria.

Melbourne Heart FC Coaching Structure
Hyundai A-League 
Head Coach
John van’t Schip

Assistant Coaches
Luciano Trani, Ivan Jolic, Joey Didulica

Foxtel National Youth League
Coach
Joe Palatsides

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Interesting that all these coaches have connections with Victoria, as the statement itself emphasises: 

In addition to bringing high quality national experience to the Club, all four support staff are locally-bred coaches with a deep and tangible connection to grassroots football in Victoria.

 

No new international coaching being brought in (JVS being the only non-Australian coach).

 

It looks like local knowledge is a high priority at the club. Especially with the signing of Jolic, it looks like the club wants to further increase youth promotion and the promotion of Victorian footballers, combined with an attacking and technical football philosophy.

 

By all reports Trani sounds like a good signing. Many Brisbane fans are lamenting him leaving their club. And it's a bit of a statement to poach a coach from the A-League champions Brisbane Roar.

 

Jolic is an interesting signing. He sounds very good, and should be a good complement to JVS and Trani. As noted above, it looks like Jolic will focus more on youth and local football.

 

 

I'm maybe not completely sold on the re-signing of Joey Didulica and Joe Palatsides. Also last season IIRC, Joey Didulica was the goalkeeping coach, and for next season he'll apparently be an assistant coach, and I don't know why he's merited becoming an assistant coach (although maybe it's just a title, and Trani and Jolic will effectively shoulder all of the responsibilities for the assistant coaches). And as we all know our goalkeepers Redmayne and Velaphi weren't too impressive last season (Redmayne IMO was worse last season than he was the season before [2012/13]), so it isn't clear that our GKs have been well coached.

I'm more fine with Palatsides being re-signed, although I'm not completely 100% about it. The youth team hasn't finished very high up the table in either of the seasons he's coached (although, as has been noted on this forum, that probably isn't too important for a youth team). More important though is the limited number of youth team players that have been knocking on the door over the past 2 seasons. Apart from Mauk and Garuccio, who were contracted to join the senior team in their 2nd seasons anyway, I can't think of any NYL players besides Walker who have made a strong case to join the senior team (although, to be fair to Palatsides, Aloisi might deserve more blame for overlooking young players). I should say though that whenever I've seen the NYL team over the past 2 seasons, I've liked the style of football they've played, and last season I believe they were one of the highest scoring NYL teams, so they seem to have a good attacking philosophy which Palatsides must have instilled in them.

 

 

All up, I think it's a strong coaching staff, with ample connections to local football. Now they just need squads of good players, so we can see what these coaches can do.

Edited by Murfy1
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Claiming that removing the salary cap will lead to clubs becoming insolvent is absurd. If anything, the opposite is true, because clubs are currently forced to spend a minimum amount, whether they can afford it or not, whereas if they were free to spend however much they want they'd spend however much they can afford.

The only valid argument is in terms of keeping the league competitive for all, in AFL and similar sports I think a salary cap makes sense, but in football where it's a global sport and clubs compete in continental championships etc., it doesn't make sense.

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Claiming that removing the salary cap will lead to clubs becoming insolvent is absurd. If anything, the opposite is true, because clubs are currently forced to spend a minimum amount, whether they can afford it or not, whereas if they were free to spend however much they want they'd spend however much they can afford.

The only valid argument is in terms of keeping the league competitive for all, in AFL and similar sports I think a salary cap makes sense, but in football where it's a global sport and clubs compete in continental championships etc., it doesn't make sense.

 

I think the main issue is that the ALeague is competing against so many other sports, that there needs to be some kind of carrot to dangle in front of supporters. I can't see Sidwell type investors being interested in markets such as Geelong or Wollongong when they have no chance of winning anything and theres already strong interest in competing sports. 

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Claiming that removing the salary cap will lead to clubs becoming insolvent is absurd. If anything, the opposite is true, because clubs are currently forced to spend a minimum amount, whether they can afford it or not, whereas if they were free to spend however much they want they'd spend however much they can afford.

The only valid argument is in terms of keeping the league competitive for all, in AFL and similar sports I think a salary cap makes sense, but in football where it's a global sport and clubs compete in continental championships etc., it doesn't make sense.

To add to this,

A few clubs will probably have their salary budget set to an amount within the 85%-100% salary capo range regardless of the salary cap, so not only is it not in anyway limiting their spending, if anything I think it could add pressure on them to go all the way to 100% to be more competitive.

Clubs spend what they want on marquees anyway, so all the club's are setting their own salary budget regardless, you don't see anyone offering extraordinary amounts to marquees to suggest what they are allowed to spend by the regulations is limiting them, what's the highest a marquee has been on, $2m a season? If a club really had complete and utter financial ineptitude (like those who think the salary cap stops clubs from becoming insolvent are implying), why wouldn't they be going after bigger players and offering $5m a season?

Even if the salary cap was a fixed amount (no marquees etc.), that still acts as a salary budget for a club, and then they'll put any more money they want to spend into their budgets of other departments, so again, if the people running the clubs are so inept at managing the finances, the clubs would become insolvent either way.

In regard to the 'levelling effect' of the salary cap, the other thing to consider is, if the salary cap is removed, it's logical that transfer fees between A-League clubs would be allowed, transfer fees are also a leveller (big clubs will sign the best players anyway, at least smaller clubs get a financial benefit out of it with transfer fees), so I don't think we'd see a great inequality occur overnight.

Edited by Tesla
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Claiming that removing the salary cap will lead to clubs becoming insolvent is absurd. If anything, the opposite is true, because clubs are currently forced to spend a minimum amount, whether they can afford it or not, whereas if they were free to spend however much they want they'd spend however much they can afford.

The only valid argument is in terms of keeping the league competitive for all, in AFL and similar sports I think a salary cap makes sense, but in football where it's a global sport and clubs compete in continental championships etc., it doesn't make sense.

The salary cap is now covered by the FFA so minimum spend is not an issue for less solvent clubs

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Claiming that removing the salary cap will lead to clubs becoming insolvent is absurd. If anything, the opposite is true, because clubs are currently forced to spend a minimum amount, whether they can afford it or not, whereas if they were free to spend however much they want they'd spend however much they can afford.

The only valid argument is in terms of keeping the league competitive for all, in AFL and similar sports I think a salary cap makes sense, but in football where it's a global sport and clubs compete in continental championships etc., it doesn't make sense.

The salary cap is now covered by the FFA so minimum spend is not an issue for less solvent clubs

I didn't realise that was actually happening, I remember it being mentioned when the new TV deal was agreed but I thought in the end the FFA were covering under $2m of it.

Regardless, the points I raise in my other post is still valid, if there is such a gross financial mismanagement waiting to happen that clubs start becoming insolvent due to the salary cap being removed, it would already be happening.

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Murf, I'd be more concerned with the retention of Joey Didulica as GK Coach than I am with Joe Palatsides as NYL Coach. JP put together a pretty good squad last season, and I think the reality is that a number of players who might have graduated to the seniors this season have found their way blocked by the numbers cap. In particular Ross Archibald would seem, at this stage, to have missed out despite being our NYL Captain and Player of the Year.

 

In contrast I don't think there are too many on here who are happy with our goalkeeping situation, and I'm assuming that Joey Didulica would have had some say in that.

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Murf, I'd be more concerned with the retention of Joey Didulica as GK Coach than I am with Joe Palatsides as NYL Coach. JP put together a pretty good squad last season, and I think the reality is that a number of players who might have graduated to the seniors this season have found their way blocked by the numbers cap. In particular Ross Archibald would seem, at this stage, to have missed out despite being our NYL Captain and Player of the Year.

 

In contrast I don't think there are too many on here who are happy with our goalkeeping situation, and I'm assuming that Joey Didulica would have had some say in that.

 

I agree, the retention of Joey Didulica is more concerning than the reappointment of Palatsides. Joey Didulica was signed to the club in mid-2012, in the period that the club made Aloisi the coach for 3 seasons, and hired Hayden Foxe as assistant coach (despite him having zero coaching experience). And unfortunately for Joey Didulica, Heart's goalkeepers didn't perform well last season, and the season before things were mixed (the Heart coaching staff felt the need to drop Bolton mid-season, and Redmayne became the no 1 for the remaining half season, and he did well then IMO). Redmayne's goalkeeping stalled last season, indeed his goalkeeping last season was IMO arguably worse last season than the season before, during his first season as a no 1 GK (2012/13). Redmayne's goalkeeping, its lack of improvement and the persistence of some particular goalkeeping problems (including, IMO, Redmayne's inability to effectively come off his line to deal with aerial crosses) really doesn't reflect well on Joey Didulica.

 

Another thing about Joey Didulica is that he's from that era of bad appointments when experience as a footballer was considered good enough to qualify someone to be a football coach (this is pretty much what got Hayden Foxe, Joey Didulica and probably John Aloisi their coaching jobs at Heart, if you read the club statements). It would be good going forward if every person appointed not only had relevant experience for his job at Heart, but also had a track record of success in his particular area.

 

Anyway, I haven't seen all the work Joey Didulica does at the club. All I'm going off is his background and the goalkeeping outcomes we all see on matchday. Hopefully for the good of the club he does good work out of view, and thrives in his position.

 

 

On Palatsides, I'm pretty much fine with him. All the football I've personally seen the NYL team play has impressed me. I was just wondering if Heart might bring in a top class youth coach, maybe from overseas, to coach Heart's youth team. Also, Heart are developing more youth programs now, including a youth academy, and I think it would be good to have an excellent youth coach overseeing that all get done.

But given that the club went for local appointments, I reckon Palatsides is maybe the best available Australian coach the club could appoint, so I'm happy to see him remain in his job for the present.

 

 

BTW, it looks like Simone Ripamonti has been confirmed for next season (going off Google translate of this Italian article): http://lanuovasardegna.gelocal.it/sport/2014/05/26/news/da-sassari-a-melbourne-per-far-volare-gli-heart-1.9304090. It'll be interesting to see what remaining staff appointments the club does (or does not) make.

Edited by Murfy1
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http://m.footballaustralia.com.au/melbourne-heart-news-display/Vant-Schip-Finalises-Coaching-Roles/90665/309

 

Melbourne Heart FC Head Coach John van’t Schip has finalised his coaching support staff for the forthcoming Hyundai A-League 2014-15 season, led by the appointment of Championship-winning Brisbane Roar assistant coach, Luciano Trani.

Trani will join Melbourne Heart as its Senior Assistant Coach, fresh from helping steer Roar to a Premiers Plate and Championship double during the 2013-14 season.

A former assistant at Wellington Phoenix and Adelaide United, Trani joins with a proven track record in the A-League.

 

“We are very fortunate to have a well-respected and highly motivated coach like Luc to help build the Club both now and in the future,” van’t Schip said.

“Luc has had success with Brisbane last season but also got excellent results at the other clubs he has been involved with. He is a proven winner and will ensure we get as much out of our players as possible.”

Melbourne Heart’s Foxtel National Youth League team will again be led by Joe Palatsides for the upcoming season, with the former Socceroo heading into his third season at the helm.

In addition to Trani, Football Federation Australia elite junior coach Ivan Jolic will join as Assistant Coach to van’t Schip, joining remaining Assistant Coach Joey Didulica.

Jolic has worked with the state’s most talented junior players as the Victorian head of the FFA’s Skills Acquisition Program for the past four years, while Didulica continues to build on an accomplished playing career in which he worked under the likes of 2014 FIFA World Cup coaches Louis van Gaal (the Netherlands) and Joachim Low (Germany).

“I am happy with the balance of the coaching staff we have for next season,” van’t Schip said.

“There is a great mix of experience and skills and a solid understanding of the game at a local, national and international level.

“We are confident that we will get the most out of the senior and youth players with these coaches.”

In addition to bringing high quality national experience to the Club, all four support staff are locally-bred coaches with a deep and tangible connection to grassroots football in Victoria.

Melbourne Heart FC Coaching StructureHyundai A-League Head Coach

John van’t Schip

Assistant Coaches

Luciano Trani, Ivan Jolic, Joey Didulica

Foxtel National Youth LeagueCoach

Joe Palatsides

Everyone seems to be in favour of this guy being assistant. I don't know him that well and being assistant coach means he's a usually out of the limelight so what do people really know about him and what he brings to the club?

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Sport science coordinator and high performance coach... Sounds like the occultists that are always hovering around in the background when City trains, making sure that players get their individual cocktails of nutritional stuff or watching videos of players jumping up and down or something.

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BTW, it looks like Simone Ripamonti has been confirmed for next season (going off Google translate of this Italian article): http://lanuovasardegna.gelocal.it/sport/2014/05/26/news/da-sassari-a-melbourne-per-far-volare-gli-heart-1.9304090. It'll be interesting to see what remaining staff appointments the club does (or does not) make.

 

IMO Simone Ripamonti is one of the best we have on our staff. He's made a hell of a difference in getting some of our chronically injured players back on the pitch - e.g. Germano. Very happy to read that he is confirmed as signed on for 2014/15.

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What are the actual punishments for breaching the salary cap?

Should make it like American sports and just have a huge tax on teams spending above the limit.

I would like that rule, but more likely with gallop at the helm, he will just take away any trophies we get
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What I'm wondering is can they do some creative accounting with the salary cap.

e.g. CFG Ltd. signs a player to play for Melbourne for 1(?) season then NYC then next 2(?) seasons and back end the salary so instead of signing for say $1 million a season for three years, pay $100k for season one (with Melbourne) then $1.45 million for seasons 2 and 3.

That's what I'd try doing anyway

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The A-League "clubs" are not clubs at all, but franchises owned by FFA. The owner are owners of the licence for the franchise to operate in the A-League. As such, FFA has, in theory, total control over everything the franchise does, and we already see that in the simplest of examples - the web-sites.

 

As I understand it the maximum and minimum of the salary cap, and everything else to do with the players in terms of numbers and conditions of employment are the subject of a Collective Bargaining Agreement between FFA and the PFA.

 

Overall, I very much doubt that there are too many loopholes that can be exploited in the set-up that we have.

 

Why I'm against the salary cap is that I consider it to be a very blunt instrument that operates on the "lowest common denominator" principle. It forces "equality" in one particular area where there are inequalities in others - for example the stadium deals are not identical for all franchises. Restricting someone from excelling at a particular activity of itself does not make those who don't excel at it any better. Restricting a particular franchise from growing by spending more on players, winning more matches and generating more income of itself will not make a poorer franchise any wealthier.

 

Given that all the franchises are owned by FFA, it is perfectly possible to redistribute FFA income in such a way that the poorer franchises remain viable and competitive. That is already being done, for example, in terms of travelling expenses being picked up by FFA. And given that all the franchises are owned by FFA it is perfectly possible to ensure financial stability and responsibility by, IMO, better means than the salary cap.

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