carlings Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I know of 2 people who have signed up for the 4 match membership. $40 for 4 games as a student is pretyy bloody good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellum Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 So will people the 4 game memberships have the same input at the end of the season as GA full membership's? I am assuming they will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 7074 - the "4 of the best" drive and the Man City news seems to be working. I guess winning at home helps too We have "jumped" 100 in a week. I wonder how much of this is due to the MCFC hype? Surely in that 100 a few would've jumped on due to the MCFC hype. Maybe they want to get involved before we are renamed so they can say we were there before Melbourne City FC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 I know of 2 people who have signed up for the 4 match membership. $40 for 4 games as a student is pretyy bloody good. Do you know the reason why they signed up? Were they Heart supporters before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 so do they miss the Ticketek fee, the rest of us have to pay it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 The phone rang tonight. My eldest son picked it up, looked confused, handed the phone to mum, who looked confused, who handed the phone to me who heard something like #MelbourneheartBelieve. Confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red or Dead Posted January 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 The phone rang tonight. My eldest son picked it up, looked confused, handed the phone to mum, who looked confused, who handed the phone to me who heard something like #MelbourneheartBelieve. Confused. Eh? Please explain..."heard something like #MelbourneHeartBelieve"? Was it a man's voice? Woman's voice? Did they then hang up after saying it? Was anything else said before they hung up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) The phone rang tonight. My eldest son picked it up, looked confused, handed the phone to mum, who looked confused, who handed the phone to me who heard something like #MelbourneheartBelieve. Confused. Eh? Please explain..."heard something like #MelbourneHeartBelieve"? Was it a man's voice? Woman's voice? Did they then hang up after saying it? Was anything else said before they hung up? Sorry. It was an automatic message like used during elections etc. And after the "Heartbelieve" the phone then hung up. Edited January 30, 2014 by Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 so do they miss the Ticketek fee, the rest of us have to pay it? It says (club web-site) Four Of The Best Melbourne Heart FC have launched a new membership giving fans the choice of four cracking games from the remaining seven home fixtures in the Hyundai A-League Amazing value at just $80 for adults and $40 for concessions – the flexi membership includes the Melbourne derby on 1 March. Fans can choose from the following matches: Sydney FC, Friday 31 January Perth Glory, Sunday 9 February (Albury regional match) Brisbane Roar, Sunday 23 February Melbourne Victory, Saturday 1 March Wellington Phoenix, Sunday 16 March Central Coast Mariners, Sunday 23 March Western Sydney Wanderers, Saturday 12 April Welcome letter Personalised membership card, lanyard & ticket wallet Members Pen Fixture magnet Bumper sticker Invitation to two post-match member functions Football Family registration (FFA email newsletter and ticket offers) With the season hotting up, there are plenty of action packed games to become a member for. #HeartBelieve *GA membership category for all games. A specific reserved seat is included for the derby against Melbourne Victory. The bolding is mine. In other words, those who bought a full season-ticket for the season have to pay to reserve a seat for the derby; the johnny-come-latelies do not. If I were a GA member I would be spitting chips over this. Another example of why the present administration must go. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melburnian Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 It's a farcical situation but not surprising one from our club. For the city people who will read this, do the exact opposite of what's been done and you will be right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 To be fair, those 'reserved' seats are up in the corner bays, away from the proper ga area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schrecky Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 so do they miss the Ticketek fee, the rest of us have to pay it? It says (club web-site) Four Of The Best Melbourne Heart FC have launched a new membership giving fans the choice of four cracking games from the remaining seven home fixtures in the Hyundai A-League Amazing value at just $80 for adults and $40 for concessions – the flexi membership includes the Melbourne derby on 1 March. Fans can choose from the following matches: Sydney FC, Friday 31 January Perth Glory, Sunday 9 February (Albury regional match) Brisbane Roar, Sunday 23 February Melbourne Victory, Saturday 1 March Wellington Phoenix, Sunday 16 March Central Coast Mariners, Sunday 23 March Western Sydney Wanderers, Saturday 12 April Welcome letter Personalised membership card, lanyard & ticket wallet Members Pen Fixture magnet Bumper sticker Invitation to two post-match member functions Football Family registration (FFA email newsletter and ticket offers) With the season hotting up, there are plenty of action packed games to become a member for. #HeartBelieve *GA membership category for all games. A specific reserved seat is included for the derby against Melbourne Victory. The bolding is mine. In other words, those who bought a full season-ticket for the season have to pay to reserve a seat for the derby; the johnny-come-latelies do not. If I were a GA member I would be spitting chips over this. Another example of why the present administration must go. I could be angry, but i've found away to profit from this shambolic system. Probably the worst bit is if you want to upgrade your seats for the derby its only a few dollars cheaper as a GA member(family) than buying your family pass as a non member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Don´t even get me started on ticket offices.. They are the bane of mental health all over the world I fear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 To be fair, those 'reserved' seats are up in the corner bays, away from the proper ga area. Having sat there, there's nothing wrong with those seats at all. In fact, for me I prefer those over being directly behind the goal. But I don't think that's the point, which is that full-season GA members have to pay extra to go to the derbies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Hopefully with the new owners will come a plenty over poverty mentality and the club will start to treat members with respect rather than seeing us as vehicles to try and extract a maximum dollar value from as one person at the club seemed to think was a good idea.I don't think they know just how close we were to cancelling our membership, not out of lack of passion for the club, but how poorly members are treated such as this derby ticketing rubbish and the football, lack of club base etc. etc. And yes JW, these limited game memberships are a slap in the face for those of us who have paid up for the season, particularly GA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 The phone rang tonight. My eldest son picked it up, looked confused, handed the phone to mum, who looked confused, who handed the phone to me who heard something like #MelbourneheartBelieve. Confused. Eh? Please explain..."heard something like #MelbourneHeartBelieve"? Was it a man's voice? Woman's voice? Did they then hang up after saying it? Was anything else said before they hung up? Sorry. It was an automatic message like used during elections etc. And after the "Heartbelieve" the phone then hung up. Creepy shit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlings Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) So will people the 4 game memberships have the same input at the end of the season as GA full membership's? I am assuming they will. Do you think they should have the same rights? They are paying members and heart doesn't have a lot of them. No disrespect to season ticket holders, but those signing for the 4 game membership would be inclined to follow up with a season ticket for next season. I know of 2 people who have signed up for the 4 match membership. $40 for 4 games as a student is pretyy bloody good. Do you know the reason why they signed up? Were they Heart supporters before? Have been to a few games this year and couldn't justify a whole season ticket. $10 a game for the rest of the year was a no brainier. Edited January 31, 2014 by carlings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I just spent 25 minutes firing up the computer, entering barcodes etc. on the Ticketek site only to get a message at the end saying error and to go back to the homepage. On doing so I re-entered my barcodes only to receive another message to say my allocation is exhausted. So I called the club and got the message service saying that the office hours are until 5:00 tonight, but no answer. Anyone wondering why the likes of Gol Gol and David Williams have had enough of the way Heart is run only need to have any dealings with the club beyond match day. This club . I look forward to at least another half hour sorting this out and paying over $20.00 to do it. I think I will post them an invoice and perhaps turn a profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heart Inaugural Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I know of 2 people who have signed up for the 4 match membership. $40 for 4 games as a student is pretyy bloody good. Do you know the reason why they signed up? Were they Heart supporters before? Signing someone up to this tonight - seems a good way for new fans to sample the action without committing much $. Looks to suit people who haven't come before or can't justify a whole season's membership (be it cost or availability). As much as we'd love to have AAMI overfilled with 23k diehard red and whites, there are so many families (and singles) who can't make it every week or can't afford the standard membership so this flexi-membership is a good way of engaging them and potentially leading onto an upgrade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victards Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Lol these special memberships mid-season are a fucking joke. This better stop with the new owners because we all may aswel wait for mid-season and sign up then instead signing up at the start of the season. (please give us cheaper memberships + more benefits for the memberships come next season) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I know of 2 people who have signed up for the 4 match membership. $40 for 4 games as a student is pretyy bloody good. Do you know the reason why they signed up? Were they Heart supporters before? Signing someone up to this tonight - seems a good way for new fans to sample the action without committing much $. Looks to suit people who haven't come before or can't justify a whole season's membership (be it cost or availability). As much as we'd love to have AAMI overfilled with 23k diehard red and whites, there are so many families (and singles) who can't make it every week or can't afford the standard membership so this flexi-membership is a good way of engaging them and potentially leading onto an upgrade. I don't blame anyone for signing up. I don't mind flexible multi-game tickets either - they have been discussed before on here and IIRC the fundamental agreed was that the fewer games that were covered by the ticket then the more expensive the ticket should be per game, whilst still offering a worthwhile discount on the "pay-at-the-gate" price. But nothing should be cheaper per game than a full-season ticket, and neither should anyone buying a full-season ticket have to fork out extra to attend certain games. IMO the present administration is doing the worst thing possible here - taking supporters for granted. That is a very dangerous path to tread. It's something that I will be pointing out to the new administration when I can find the best way to do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red or Dead Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 4th of Jan when Aloisi was sacked it was- 6989 7th of Jan we clicked over the 7k figure - 7002 21/01 "4 of the best" announced it was - 7007 23/01 Manchester City buys out Melbourne Heart 20/02 1 month after "4 of the best" it's at 7185 So 200 members have been signed up AFTER Aloisi was sacked! Imagine what that number would've been if we had JvS and playing the style of footbal we're currently playing from the start of the season! I realistically reckon we would've cracked 8,000 members if it wasn't for Aloisi's (lack of) game plan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalHeart Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 4th of Jan when Aloisi was sacked it was- 6989 7th of Jan we clicked over the 7k figure - 7002 21/01 "4 of the best" announced it was - 7007 23/01 Manchester City buys out Melbourne Heart 20/02 1 month after "4 of the best" it's at 7185 So 200 members have been signed up AFTER Aloisi was sacked! Imagine what that number would've been if we had JvS and playing the style of footbal we're currently playing from the start of the season! I realistically reckon we would've cracked 8,000 members if it wasn't for Aloisi's (lack of) game plan! What was our final membership count for last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red or Dead Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I thought I update this since we haven't done it for a while. It'll make for a good guide come next year's membership drive: 2012/2013 season Vs 2013/14 season 3,300 August 16th Vs 3800 (+15.15%)3,650 August 30th Vs 4272 (+17.04%)4,000 Sept. 12th Vs 4633 (+15.83%) 4750 Day before R1 Vs 5908 (+24.38%) 5,500 Nov. 14th Vs 6758 (+22.87%) 5,850 Nov. 29th Vs 6800 (+16.24%) (2012/13 5 game memberships announced) 6,025 Dec. 18th Vs 6989 (+16.00%) (at Dec 25th) ?,??? Jan 7th Vs 7007 (2013/14 “4 of the best” m’ships announced) ?,??? Feb 20th Vs 7185 6583 TOTAL Vs 7241? TOTAL (7241 is what we need to have a 10% increase on last year!) Note: I found the 6,583 TOTAL in one of "tbitm's" posts so I'm only taking his word for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I know of 2 people who have signed up for the 4 match membership. $40 for 4 games as a student is pretyy bloody good. Do you know the reason why they signed up? Were they Heart supporters before? Signing someone up to this tonight - seems a good way for new fans to sample the action without committing much $. Looks to suit people who haven't come before or can't justify a whole season's membership (be it cost or availability). As much as we'd love to have AAMI overfilled with 23k diehard red and whites, there are so many families (and singles) who can't make it every week or can't afford the standard membership so this flexi-membership is a good way of engaging them and potentially leading onto an upgrade. I don't blame anyone for signing up. I don't mind flexible multi-game tickets either - they have been discussed before on here and IIRC the fundamental agreed was that the fewer games that were covered by the ticket then the more expensive the ticket should be per game, whilst still offering a worthwhile discount on the "pay-at-the-gate" price. But nothing should be cheaper per game than a full-season ticket, and neither should anyone buying a full-season ticket have to fork out extra to attend certain games. IMO the present administration is doing the worst thing possible here - taking supporters for granted. That is a very dangerous path to tread. It's something that I will be pointing out to the new administration when I can find the best way to do it. I understand your rationale jw. It makes a lot of sense from a "reward" perspective. I do think though the club needs an angle to help get new people in the door. That's presumably why they are doing this 4 game thing. Not saying its the best idea, but it is an idea. Maybe having an offer through members is a better way to go, ie with your membership comes the right to purchase an introductory package/free ticket/whatever. Then when you invite your mate, you give him this free ticket or you can approve the purchase of his intro package or whatever. That can be discounted because its for a first timer and the members have control over issuing it so they can't be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Very nice trajectory in those membership numbers actually.. Now just give them something to cheer about and the sky´s the limit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjake1234 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 I thought I update this since we haven't done it for a while. It'll make for a good guide come next year's membership drive:2012/2013 season Vs 2013/14 season3,300 August 16th Vs 3800 (+15.15%)3,650 August 30th Vs 4272 (+17.04%)4,000 Sept. 12th Vs 4633 (+15.83%)4750 Day before R1 Vs 5908 (+24.38%)5,500 Nov. 14th Vs 6758 (+22.87%)5,850 Nov. 29th Vs 6800 (+16.24%) (2012/13 5 game memberships announced)6,025 Dec. 18th Vs 6989 (+16.00%) (at Dec 25th)?,??? Jan 7th Vs 7007 (2013/14 “4 of the best” m’ships announced)?,??? Feb 20th Vs 71856583 TOTAL Vs 7241? TOTAL (7241 is what we need to have a 10% increase on last year!)Note: I found the 6,583 TOTAL in one of "tbitm's" posts so I'm only taking his word for it. I had tried to find some stats on membership and attendances at Heart to accompany an email of concern I sent to ST. I don't guarantee these numbers but what I found were: Year av attendances membership 2010/11 8,312 ? 2011/12 9,082 7,200 2012/13 8,560 6,680 2013/14 9,199 7,188 (22/02) Good work R&D. Would be nice to have these sort of stats available for easy access. As has already been noted many times, we have been able to keep numbers even with the JA effect. It's a really good indication of the solid supporter base. Disappointingly, however, they have not really increased. Here's hoping that this is about to change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 IMO the problem is that we're always trying to compare apples and oranges because each season there are various limited-game memberships offered at various stages of the season. The only valid comparison on memberships should be the number of full-season memberships sold before any subsequent limited-game offers come on the market. And even those comparisons would be questioned by purists because of the wide range of memberships available - everything from baby to full adult. But it's the best we can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 IMO the problem is that we're always trying to compare apples and oranges So then lets call it a fruit count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 I don´t know about Melbourne but in England we usually say that attendances are decided between seasons.. As that´s the time when people buy/renew their season tickets. Whatever happens during season tend to affect attendances in just a minor way. I got no doubts that there will be a generous marketing budget and a minor media blitz in due time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR9 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Exactly right, there is no doubt that will be a huge campaign, there is no cap on marketing budget There will be plenty of TVCs, Print ads, social media, google adwords/adsense and billboards, etc. to launch the new brand and drive season tickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red or Dead Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Cracked 7.2k today; 7208 up 23 from Thursday! So there IS a direct link between winning and greater membership/attendance numbers! Haha I'm thinking with our recent form and the Derby coming up, it'll make the "Four of the best" membership a little more enticing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I thought I update this since we haven't done it for a while. It'll make for a good guide come next year's membership drive:2012/2013 season Vs 2013/14 season3,300 August 16th Vs 3800 (+15.15%)3,650 August 30th Vs 4272 (+17.04%)4,000 Sept. 12th Vs 4633 (+15.83%)4750 Day before R1 Vs 5908 (+24.38%)5,500 Nov. 14th Vs 6758 (+22.87%)5,850 Nov. 29th Vs 6800 (+16.24%) (2012/13 5 game memberships announced)6,025 Dec. 18th Vs 6989 (+16.00%) (at Dec 25th)?,??? Jan 7th Vs 7007 (2013/14 “4 of the best” m’ships announced)?,??? Feb 20th Vs 71856583 TOTAL Vs 7241? TOTAL (7241 is what we need to have a 10% increase on last year!)Note: I found the 6,583 TOTAL in one of "tbitm's" posts so I'm only taking his word for it. I had tried to find some stats on membership and attendances at Heart to accompany an email of concern I sent to ST. I don't guarantee these numbers but what I found were: Year av attendances membership 2010/11 8,312 ? 2011/12 9,082 7,200 2012/13 8,560 6,680 2013/14 9,199 7,188 (22/02) Good work R&D. Would be nice to have these sort of stats available for easy access. As has already been noted many times, we have been able to keep numbers even with the JA effect. It's a really good indication of the solid supporter base. Disappointingly, however, they have not really increased. Here's hoping that this is about to change. First season 8,312?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red or Dead Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I thought I update this since we haven't done it for a while. It'll make for a good guide come next year's membership drive:2012/2013 season Vs 2013/14 season3,300 August 16th Vs 3800 (+15.15%)3,650 August 30th Vs 4272 (+17.04%)4,000 Sept. 12th Vs 4633 (+15.83%)4750 Day before R1 Vs 5908 (+24.38%)5,500 Nov. 14th Vs 6758 (+22.87%)5,850 Nov. 29th Vs 6800 (+16.24%) (2012/13 5 game memberships announced)6,025 Dec. 18th Vs 6989 (+16.00%) (at Dec 25th)?,??? Jan 7th Vs 7007 (2013/14 “4 of the best” m’ships announced)?,??? Feb 20th Vs 71856583 TOTAL Vs 7241? TOTAL (7241 is what we need to have a 10% increase on last year!)Note: I found the 6,583 TOTAL in one of "tbitm's" posts so I'm only taking his word for it. I had tried to find some stats on membership and attendances at Heart to accompany an email of concern I sent to ST. I don't guarantee these numbers but what I found were: Year av attendances membership 2010/11 8,312 ? 2011/12 9,082 7,200 2012/13 8,560 6,680 2013/14 9,199 7,188 (22/02) Good work R&D. Would be nice to have these sort of stats available for easy access. As has already been noted many times, we have been able to keep numbers even with the JA effect. It's a really good indication of the solid supporter base. Disappointingly, however, they have not really increased. Here's hoping that this is about to change. First season 8,312?? I think he means that was our first season's average attendance. The ? next to it is because he doesn't know what our final membership number was for that season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjake1234 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yes - that's what I meant. Sorry about the formatting. And, despite the problems we recognise comparing membership numbers, 7,214 today is the most we have had! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 As of 20th March 2014, 7,307 members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red or Dead Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 As of 20th March 2014, 7,307 members. 2012/2013 Vs 2013/14 season 3,300 August 16th Vs 3800 (+15.15%)3,650 August 30th Vs 4272 (+17.04%)4,000 Sept. 12th Vs 4633 (+15.83%) 4750 Day b4 R1 Vs 5908 (+24.38%) 5,500 Nov. 14th Vs 6758 (+22.87%) 5,850 Nov. 29th Vs 6800 (+16.24%) (2012/13 5 game memberships announced) 6,025 Dec. 18th Vs 6989 (+16.00%) (at Dec 25th) ?,??? Jan 7th Vs 7007 (2013/14 “4 of the best” m’ships announced) ?,??? Feb 20th Vs 7185 6583 Mar 20th Vs 7307 TOTAL (11%) I can't see that membership number moving any more considering there are only two home games left so if we assume that 7,307 is the total number of members this season and considering the woeful season we had (apart from 7 game unbeaten streak), a 10.998% increase on last season is an amazing result! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schrecky Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 And if you look at average attendance - all is well considering how woeful our season was. Year , Average 2011 - 8312 2012 - 9082 2013 - 8560 * (only 1 derby) 2014 - 10,147 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestr Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Derby games should be excluded from the counts. Only then you'll get a true Melbourne heart home attendance numbers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Derby games should be excluded from the counts. Only then you'll get a true Melbourne heart home attendance numbers. OK. Here are the figures, excluding home derbies and "regional" matches. 2010-11: 13 matches, average 6,059. 2011-12: 11 matches, average 6,473. 2012-13: 12 matches, average 7,077. 2013-14 (to date): 9 matches, average 7,154. Highest home non-derby crowd: 13,752 vs. Sydney, 24th February 2013. Lowest home crowd: 2,754 vs. Newcastle, 8th December 2010. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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