JVS - The coach from the land of chronic

[xXJawsaXx]

Even though he didn't do amazingly well in his first stint, I think that JvS will do much better now with our resources. With that being said, I am happy with this appointment, the team has impressed me since he took over (The last two weeks not too much, but I digress). For the first time in a while I have enjoyed watching us and the way we play, which I credit (mostly) to JvS.

[NewConvert]

Happy with this appointment. This will provide stability and hopefully vision (eg how to better integrate the NYL players). next on the personnel front comes the assistants and players, which I would assume JVS will have a great deal of input.  But simultaneously I would hope that they can get the training facilities sorted out quickly.

[jw1739]

Fits in with the NYC coaching appointment.   They like stability and experience in the local league.

 

Realistically the only personel game changer they are going to get is an international marquee.

I don't think so. We're not going to win silverware with the cattle we've got, JvS or no JvS. IMO the deadwood has to go and the squad strengthened significantly.

[Nate]

 

Fits in with the NYC coaching appointment.   They like stability and experience in the local league.

 

Realistically the only personel game changer they are going to get is an international marquee.

I don't think so. We're not going to win silverware with the cattle we've got, JvS or no JvS. IMO the deadwood has to go and the squad strengthened significantly.

 

I agree, the fact we're now owned by City makes us a more attractive option for quality players who would never have even considered us in the past.

[KautoStar1]

Very pleased with this but the playing staff needs to be subject to an almost complete clear out.

[M13]

Well, as almost all of us predicted JVS got the nod.. That is most likely to trigger some transfer negotiations at a guess.
 

[NewConvert]

 

Fits in with the NYC coaching appointment.   They like stability and experience in the local league.

 

Realistically the only personel game changer they are going to get is an international marquee.

I don't think so. We're not going to win silverware with the cattle we've got, JvS or no JvS. IMO the deadwood has to go and the squad strengthened significantly.

 

 

Easier said than done. It could be done over two seasons but much harder to do in one. First there are players that are already contracted for next season so if they are paid out then that reduces the salary available to replacements. Then there are players whose contract expires at season's end so no problem with the salary cap but then they need to be replaced. There are only five visa players and of these four become vacant (OE, Wieleart, PG,MM) as I believe that Germano has one year left. Of these four only Mifsud is non-selection with PG relegated to the bench. So if all four are released they will need to be replaced. That means that for a weekly team selection of 15 players replacement for the other 11 will need to be found - and I don't think that the club would be able to pick the cream of the other 9 A-League sides to get a brand new spanking 11 players to bring to match day. And then there is the matter of what to do with the NYL players that should be tried and be given a good opportunity (that is real game time over a period of time) at a more senior level.

So clearing the deadwood will need to be done over 2 or three seasons with the need to develop young players. BTW I have raised the issue of how much time a young player should be given before a decision is made with respect to their careers but I don't believe that anyone gave the matter any thought.

[silva10]

 

 

Fits in with the NYC coaching appointment.   They like stability and experience in the local league.

 

Realistically the only personel game changer they are going to get is an international marquee.

I don't think so. We're not going to win silverware with the cattle we've got, JvS or no JvS. IMO the deadwood has to go and the squad strengthened significantly.

 

 

Easier said than done. It could be done over two seasons but much harder to do in one. First there are players that are already contracted for next season so if they are paid out then that reduces the salary available to replacements. Then there are players whose contract expires at season's end so no problem with the salary cap but then they need to be replaced. There are only five visa players and of these four become vacant (OE, Wieleart, PG,MM) as I believe that Germano has one year left. Of these four only Mifsud is non-selection with PG relegated to the bench. So if all four are released they will need to be replaced. That means that for a weekly team selection of 15 players replacement for the other 11 will need to be found - and I don't think that the club would be able to pick the cream of the other 9 A-League sides to get a brand new spanking 11 players to bring to match day. And then there is the matter of what to do with the NYL players that should be tried and be given a good opportunity (that is real game time over a period of time) at a more senior level.

So clearing the deadwood will need to be done over 2 or three seasons with the need to develop young players. BTW I have raised the issue of how much time a young player should be given before a decision is made with respect to their careers but I don't believe that anyone gave the matter any thought.

 

I agree with you that it will take time to change the playing squad around.

 

Obviously the salary cap and visa restrictions makes it more difficult to get all the players you would ideally like to bring in. So maybe between 4-6 players for the first team and then about four more for the squad to go along with existing players who are still on contracts.

 

I am sure they will have been working on the squad for the past few weeks.

[Sash]

 

 

Fits in with the NYC coaching appointment.   They like stability and experience in the local league.

 

Realistically the only personel game changer they are going to get is an international marquee.

I don't think so. We're not going to win silverware with the cattle we've got, JvS or no JvS. IMO the deadwood has to go and the squad strengthened significantly.

 

 

Easier said than done. It could be done over two seasons but much harder to do in one. First there are players that are already contracted for next season so if they are paid out then that reduces the salary available to replacements. Then there are players whose contract expires at season's end so no problem with the salary cap but then they need to be replaced. There are only five visa players and of these four become vacant (OE, Wieleart, PG,MM) as I believe that Germano has one year left. Of these four only Mifsud is non-selection with PG relegated to the bench. So if all four are released they will need to be replaced. That means that for a weekly team selection of 15 players replacement for the other 11 will need to be found - and I don't think that the club would be able to pick the cream of the other 9 A-League sides to get a brand new spanking 11 players to bring to match day. And then there is the matter of what to do with the NYL players that should be tried and be given a good opportunity (that is real game time over a period of time) at a more senior level.

So clearing the deadwood will need to be done over 2 or three seasons with the need to develop young players. BTW I have raised the issue of how much time a young player should be given before a decision is made with respect to their careers but I don't believe that anyone gave the matter any thought.

 

But simplistic diatribes about clearing deadwood is easier than actually looking at the squad, making informed judgements on individuals, and considering limitations such as contracts, salary cap and visa spots. Which is what JVS will do.

 

In my opinion, any regular reader of this forum is conditioned to believe we're miles away from the rest of the competition, when in fact the evenness of the league means that we're not far away at all (at least from the top 3 or 4, if not Brisbane). And on the other hand, nor will the new ownership mean we can start dominating the league. The fact that we've collected more than 20 points in the second half of the season with 4 rounds to go, without a dominant striker, shows that in this league, you're never really a long way behind.

 

Apart from perhaps Mifsud, and the young players who haven't been called upon like Vrankovic, Walker and Mitchinson, pretty much every player currently on the list has made some contribution and can make an argument for why they should stay on. Some won't succeed in getting another contract, but the more important thing for me isn't the peverse desire some people have to get rid of players. it's the increased opportunities we'll have to be able to bring in more quality and hopefully more consistently good recruiting from now on.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Sash

[belaguttman]

 

 

 

Fits in with the NYC coaching appointment.   They like stability and experience in the local league.

 

Realistically the only personel game changer they are going to get is an international marquee.

I don't think so. We're not going to win silverware with the cattle we've got, JvS or no JvS. IMO the deadwood has to go and the squad strengthened significantly.

 

 

Easier said than done. It could be done over two seasons but much harder to do in one. First there are players that are already contracted for next season so if they are paid out then that reduces the salary available to replacements. Then there are players whose contract expires at season's end so no problem with the salary cap but then they need to be replaced. There are only five visa players and of these four become vacant (OE, Wieleart, PG,MM) as I believe that Germano has one year left. Of these four only Mifsud is non-selection with PG relegated to the bench. So if all four are released they will need to be replaced. That means that for a weekly team selection of 15 players replacement for the other 11 will need to be found - and I don't think that the club would be able to pick the cream of the other 9 A-League sides to get a brand new spanking 11 players to bring to match day. And then there is the matter of what to do with the NYL players that should be tried and be given a good opportunity (that is real game time over a period of time) at a more senior level.

So clearing the deadwood will need to be done over 2 or three seasons with the need to develop young players. BTW I have raised the issue of how much time a young player should be given before a decision is made with respect to their careers but I don't believe that anyone gave the matter any thought.

 

But simplistic diatribes about clearing deadwood is easier than actually looking at the squad, making informed judgements on individuals, and considering limitations such as contracts, salary cap and visa spots. Which is what JVS will do.

 

In my opinion, any regular reader of this forum is conditioned to believe we're miles away from the rest of the competition, when in fact the evenness of the league means that we're not far away at all (at least from the top 3 or 4, if not Brisbane). And on the other hand, nor will the new ownership mean we can start dominating the league. The fact that we've collected more than 20 points in the second half of the season with 4 rounds to go, without a dominant striker, shows that in this league, you're never really a long way behind.

 

Apart from Mifsud, and the young players who haven't been called upon like Vrankovic, Walker and Mitchinson, every player currently on the list has made some contribution and can make an argument for why they should stay on. Some won't succeed in getting another contract, but the more important thing for me isn't the peverse desire some people have to get rid of players. it's the increased opportunities we'll have to be able to bring in more quality and hopefully more consistently good recruiting from now on.

 

On the other hand we could interpret it as showing how less important a 'strongest link' is in success. Football is a weakest link game, whilst undoubtedly we'd benefit from a good striker, we'd benefit more by replacing the weakest links in the team

[jw1739]

It may take time but surely, at the very least though, we have to make a start on improving the squad? For starters, take our first-choice 11 and go through them one by one and ask the question - would this player be playing in this position in a top-four A-League first-choice team? Take the top four sides as they stand now and ask whether their coaches would like to get their hands on any of our players? Consider the ages of some of our regulars

(as of start of next season):

Murdocca: 30

Wielaert: 35

Kisnorbo: 32

Kewell: 36

Engelaar: 35

Gerhardt: 29

How much more have these guys got to give the club? There are many, many questions that have to be asked.

 

NewConvert asked the question about how many years you have to give a young player before making a decision on their future. That's a difficult one. The world is littered with footballers who had star-studded youth careers but for whatever reason their careers stalled. In the decision-making factors I would think you have to include letting them mature physically, they need to be tested in regular competitive football, they need a strong work ethic, and you need a coach who is capable of seeing not just outcomes, but whether the player has the capacity to continue to develop and eliminate any bad habits etc. I doubt that you could specify a particular time period.

[Sash]

It may take time but surely, at the very least though, we have to make a start on improving the squad? For starters, take our first-choice 11 and go through them one by one and ask the question - would this player be playing in this position in a top-four A-League first-choice team? Take the top four sides as they stand now and ask whether their coaches would like to get their hands on any of our players? Consider the ages of some of our regulars

(as of start of next season):

Murdocca: 30

Wielaert: 35

Kisnorbo: 32

Kewell: 36

Engelaar: 35

Gerhardt: 29

How much more have these guys got to give the club? There are many, many questions that have to be asked.

 

NewConvert asked the question about how many years you have to give a young player before making a decision on their future. That's a difficult one. The world is littered with footballers who had star-studded youth careers but for whatever reason their careers stalled. In the decision-making factors I would think you have to include letting them mature physically, they need to be tested in regular competitive football, they need a strong work ethic, and you need a coach who is capable of seeing not just outcomes, but whether the player has the capacity to continue to develop and eliminate any bad habits etc. I doubt that you could specify a particular time period.

Good points, I agree. I'd say at least one of, if not both of Kewell and Engelaar, and one of Gerhardt or Wielardt should make way. But could I suggest it's a better topic for the planning for next year thread?

[Sash]

 

 

 

 

Fits in with the NYC coaching appointment.   They like stability and experience in the local league.

 

Realistically the only personel game changer they are going to get is an international marquee.

I don't think so. We're not going to win silverware with the cattle we've got, JvS or no JvS. IMO the deadwood has to go and the squad strengthened significantly.

 

 

Easier said than done. It could be done over two seasons but much harder to do in one. First there are players that are already contracted for next season so if they are paid out then that reduces the salary available to replacements. Then there are players whose contract expires at season's end so no problem with the salary cap but then they need to be replaced. There are only five visa players and of these four become vacant (OE, Wieleart, PG,MM) as I believe that Germano has one year left. Of these four only Mifsud is non-selection with PG relegated to the bench. So if all four are released they will need to be replaced. That means that for a weekly team selection of 15 players replacement for the other 11 will need to be found - and I don't think that the club would be able to pick the cream of the other 9 A-League sides to get a brand new spanking 11 players to bring to match day. And then there is the matter of what to do with the NYL players that should be tried and be given a good opportunity (that is real game time over a period of time) at a more senior level.

So clearing the deadwood will need to be done over 2 or three seasons with the need to develop young players. BTW I have raised the issue of how much time a young player should be given before a decision is made with respect to their careers but I don't believe that anyone gave the matter any thought.

 

But simplistic diatribes about clearing deadwood is easier than actually looking at the squad, making informed judgements on individuals, and considering limitations such as contracts, salary cap and visa spots. Which is what JVS will do.

 

In my opinion, any regular reader of this forum is conditioned to believe we're miles away from the rest of the competition, when in fact the evenness of the league means that we're not far away at all (at least from the top 3 or 4, if not Brisbane). And on the other hand, nor will the new ownership mean we can start dominating the league. The fact that we've collected more than 20 points in the second half of the season with 4 rounds to go, without a dominant striker, shows that in this league, you're never really a long way behind.

 

Apart from Mifsud, and the young players who haven't been called upon like Vrankovic, Walker and Mitchinson, every player currently on the list has made some contribution and can make an argument for why they should stay on. Some won't succeed in getting another contract, but the more important thing for me isn't the peverse desire some people have to get rid of players. it's the increased opportunities we'll have to be able to bring in more quality and hopefully more consistently good recruiting from now on.

 

On the other hand we could interpret it as showing how less important a 'strongest link' is in success. Football is a weakest link game, whilst undoubtedly we'd benefit from a good striker, we'd benefit more by replacing the weakest links in the team

 

Yes, an even squad who combine well is better than relying on a couple of matchwinners. I think A League clubs sometimes get seduced by the idea of a big name marquee, when an even squad of contributors can deliver better results.

 

But for  us, I think a striker is currently the most glaring hole. Every side goes through periods where they don't play well. Like us in the last couple of weeks. Just having a quality finisher can get you results through those dips in form. Even though we haven't played well in the last two games, it would've just taken a decent finisher to still pick up 4 or 6 points pretty easily. When we don't play well, our forwards butchering tap ins, or messing up one on ones, or shooting everywhere except at the goals, just compounds it, and probably kills any confidence in the rest of the side. Dugandzic, Ramsay and Williams are all guilty. That's why I'm getting obsessed with finding a striker. Anyway, probably a discussion for another thread.

[Rellum]

I think the squad will go under less change than it did last off season. Continuity will be a stronger base than constant radical change of the squad which, less be honest, didn't work last off season. Some quality players will come in be I think the majority of the squad will remain intact. I have said this before, I think the new admin will focus on off the field setup first and refine the team as we go along. I am not expecting radical changes.

[Kiro Kompiro]

IMO a championship winning squad needs 3 quality first choice players and 2 back ups to cover injuries.  A leader to organise the defense, a quality midfielder and a natural finisher and the job is 80 % done.

 

The rest is filled with serviceable players that can do a job and don't have routine brain farts.

[strider]

It may take time but surely, at the very least though, we have to make a start on improving the squad? For starters, take our first-choice 11 and go through them one by one and ask the question - would this player be playing in this position in a top-four A-League first-choice team? Take the top four sides as they stand now and ask whether their coaches would like to get their hands on any of our players? Consider the ages of some of our regulars

(as of start of next season):

Murdocca: 30

Wielaert: 35

Kisnorbo: 32

Kewell: 36

Engelaar: 35

Gerhardt: 29

How much more have these guys got to give the club? There are many, many questions that have to be asked.

 

Not biased at all but Kisnorbo can play until he's 50... just sayin

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

JVS press confrence! The last 10seconds, gives away a couple of big signings being announced in coming weeks!

[Arjen_nooooo]

JVS press confrence! The last 10seconds, gives away a couple of big signings being announced in coming weeks!

 

He's a tease. But the way we have played the last two weeks suggests that a number of players have probably heard less than positive news.

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

This is what he said,

"We started talking with players and I think in the next few days or weeks where certainly going to hear some positive news, so I would say keep on focused and tuned on at the melbourne Heart site, and then we will try to announce some nice things."

His talking about new players yeah? Not our players?

[jw1739]

My interpretation - has to be new players.

 

Just shows that lots of work has been going on behind the scenes!

[kingofhearts]

My interpretation - has to be new players.

 

Just shows that lots of work has been going on behind the scenes!

If its the re-signing of hoffman and velaphi will be extremely pissed

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

Lol!!

[belaguttman]

 

My interpretation - has to be new players.

 

Just shows that lots of work has been going on behind the scenes!

If its the re-signing of hoffman and velaphi will be extremely pissed

 

+1

[Murfy1]

 

 

BTW, around 4:30 in the video is when JVS talks about the upcoming announcements

[Murfy1]

My first guess was JVS was talking about re-signings, but I think he might be talking about new signings.

 

In the middle of the video he said 'well you always plan, so during the season you're always planning for the next game, but also for the next season. That's how you have to work', which suggests that a good amount of planning (and perhaps player negotiations, including new player negotiations) has already been done.

 

Also, the fact that he said 'we started talking with players' rather than 'we started talking with the players' suggests to me that he's talking about new players (although, who knows, it could be JVS' imperfect English).

 

A final point, I don't think he'd say 'and then we'll try to announce some nice things' if it was just re-signings that he was talking about.

 

 

I could be way off, and it could just be an announcement in a few days or a week or whatever that Heart is re-signing Hoffman and Velaphi, but I can't help but interpret from the above video that he means new player announcements (we do have at least 2 free Aussie spots now, and it's been suggested on this forum that Mifsud is gone, meaning 1 free VISA spot). I guess we'll see.

[jw1739]

If ever a bloke happened to be in the right place at the right time it's JvS. He looks like the cat who's just swallowed the cream - never seen him smile so much since we've known him. Brought back to the club in a caretaker capacity by the previous owner no less, club gets sold a few weeks later, and he lands the top job!

 

Can't wait to see who we bring on board to play for next season and beyond.

[Koerner4]

Got the feeling he's more talking about re-signing players, although the work on new signings has surely begun and nonetheless this is positive news. Exciting times.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Koerner4

[hedaik]

Unless they come from the ALeague, are we really going to be signing up any big name players 7 months out or whatever it is from the new season?

[jw1739]

Unless they come from the ALeague, are we really going to be signing up any big name players 7 months out or whatever it is from the new season?

Remember, we're going after "big players" rather than "big names." However, to answer you question, "Why not?" we have 36 scouts out there, there's the possibility of  a couple of younger fringe players coming from MCFC, and plenty of other options. We like to get the squad together in June after a break, and that's not so far away really.

[NewConvert]

One of the many reasons why I should burn in hell is that once I wrote a 30 page contractual document of pure waffle that said everything is rosy but committed to nothing. Listening to JVS reminded me of that document. At least I will have interesting company.

[Attack11]

The new owners said that it will take some time to build the facilities and all the off field stuff. So to mask all the behind the scene goings on we as supporters and members can enjoy good winning attacking football.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Murfy1]

It is plausible that they are already recruiting new players for next season. Heart has been releasing players since the takeover, first Macallister then Mebrahtu, and the haven't been any reports of Mifsud training (yet alone making match squads) for a long time.. Given that some players have already been released, there's nothing to stop them from making a few signings.

 

Also it has been reported that Manchester City will play Melbourne Heart in Melbourne in May. Presumably they would want Heart to have some of next season's squad by then (and quite possibly they might want Heart to have at least 1 big player for this showpiece match).

 

And finally, we now have the FFA cup, so it's not like there will be no competitive football until mid-October (as was the case with this season). Presumably all clubs will recruit earlier then last season.

 

 

Anyway this is what I'm reasoning, and my reasoning might not be flawless. But I think there's a fair chance that there might be significant activity in the near future with regards to Heart's rebuilding for next season. I would be very surprised if they announced that JVS was the coach for the next 3 years, and then didn't announce anything for, say, a month. I expect there to be some news, probably player news, soon, although it's hard to say when, as negotiations are very funny business, and negotiations can drag on well after it seemed they were effectively finished (which is why I think JVS was non-committal and said an announcement would be forthcoming 'in a few days or weeks').

[Alexxandro]

 

Unless they come from the ALeague, are we really going to be signing up any big name players 7 months out or whatever it is from the new season?

Remember, we're going after "big players" rather than "big names." However, to answer you question, "Why not?" we have 36 scouts out there, there's the possibility of  a couple of younger fringe players coming from MCFC, and plenty of other options. We like to get the squad together in June after a break, and that's not so far away really.

 

It's going to be the most entertaining year of football ahead. Heart off season will be fascinating. World Cup. New Heart City team. Asian Cup... 

 

Oh and FFA cup! 

Edited March 20, 2014 by Alexxandro

[Nate]

Exciting times ahead for us!

 

...I know we say this every year and are ultimately let down, but this time is different 

[silva10]

Well I think your all in for an exciting off season.

 

Am as excited as you lads

[Parrot]

With a small salary cap in place it is impossible to make a major difference to the strength of a squad by using money to obtain high quality players. 

One way a major difference can be made is with the marquee signings - assuming they are able to regularly play when they arrive and don't get major injuries.

Maybe we will be signing seriously good marquees.

 

Like an Australian marquee not being a returning Socceroo at the end of his career like a Bresciano, but a quality starting eleven Socceroo at the peak or nearing the peak of his playing ability.
 

Similarly for an overseas marquee, getting a quality player whose career is not just about over.  

 

[KSK_47]

Still slightly concerned about the inconsistent performances (obviously prefer it to consistently shit under ja) but I think next season will be a good one.

[Alexxandro]

Still slightly concerned about the inconsistent performances

I hear ya. It's really only the last two weeks that have been poor and and they might have been affected by players being told they are not here next season, JVS being in negotiations.. Engelaars's personal stuff...

 

Well I hope that's the reason for two pretty shit displays of football. 

[mulhollanddrive]

Engelaar has a lower leg issue, sort of related to his prior injury, but not really.

 

JVS won't be playing him for full games I don't think for rest of the year.

[Kiro Kompiro]

With a small salary cap in place it is impossible to make a major difference to the strength of a squad by using money to obtain high quality players. 

One way a major difference can be made is with the marquee signings - assuming they are able to regularly play when they arrive and don't get major injuries.

Maybe we will be signing seriously good marquees.

 

Like an Australian marquee not being a returning Socceroo at the end of his career like a Bresciano, but a quality starting eleven Socceroo at the peak or nearing the peak of his playing ability.

 

Similarly for an overseas marquee, getting a quality player whose career is not just about over.  

 

 

 

You've highlighted the problems with having money set aside that MUST be spent on ONE international marquee and ONE Australian marquee: what if they get injured, a likely scenario given that the marquee wages have pretty much always been spent on players at the end of their career.

 

In the case of the Australian marquee its even more limiting because what if there is no Australian worthy of it, like other than Cahill, right now no-one is?

 

I'd like to see a cap on the "marquee players allowance" of $2.5 million in addition to the squad salary cap.  That $2.5 million can be distributed in anyway the club sits fit.  Rather than spend it ONE player, spread it amongst 5 quality overseas or local players who might be getting on average an additional average $500k over an above their salary.  That way you could get the spine of the team built on players each getting paid $500k to $1 million.