Chris p Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 13 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said: That's not the point I'm making at all. I shouldn't be surprised that this has gone over the head of somebody who doesn't know how to use the word "literally" though. Thats not an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisphantomfortress Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Chris p said: Thats not an argument. If I wanted an arguement I'd jump on /pol/ and express my undying love for HRC. I'm just here to talk about football and call out BigoT50 on his hatefilled backwards lifestyle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rass Posted October 9, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 Forget we went overseas, dominated a team we lost to only a month or so ago by 4 goals for 60 minutes, then hung on for 40 mins with a man down and still won. Massive achievement given our history. ...but we didn't win 10-0 like we are supposed to win every game this year. Therefore we're obviously shit and are in crisis mode.... Huge effort and result i say. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 4 hours ago, rass said: Forget we went overseas, dominated a team we lost to only a month or so ago by 4 goals for 60 minutes, then hung on for 40 mins with a man down and still won. Massive achievement given our history. ...but we didn't win 10-0 like we are supposed to win every game this year. Therefore we're obviously shit and are in crisis mode.... Huge effort and result i say. durante, mcglinchey, barba outs plus they played a few kids. wins a win but lets not ignore the context of the game 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rass Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Kiro Kompiro said: durante, mcglinchey, barba outs plus they played a few kids. wins a win but lets not ignore the context of the game Sorry that's just ridiculous negativity. They still had match winners in finkler, krishna and roly. The context of the game is it's round 1 and we won away with 10 men. Sets up next week perfectly and then a great run of games here. ...but if you want to hang onto the result of a meaningless practice game over this, then yeah we're totally fukd right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 Just now, rass said: Sorry that's just ridiculous negativity. They still had match winners in finkler, krishna and roly. The context of the game is it's round 1 and we won away with 10 men. Sets up next week perfectly and then a great run of games here. ...but if you want to hang onto the result of a meaningless practice game over this, then yeah we're totally fukd right now. no its not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rass Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, Kiro Kompiro said: no its not. Let me ask you, what do you expect of the team? What did you expect from that game yesterday, especially after going down to 10 men? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 minute ago, rass said: Let me ask you, what do you expect of the team? What did you expect from that game yesterday, especially after going down to 10 men? 0-2. No send off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphine Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Kiro Kompiro said: 0-2. No send off. One Rose error caused this. Are you saying there is no room for error? Given that it did happen (I.e. context), still not a good result? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silva10 Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Kiro Kompiro said: 0-2. No send off. With a bit of luck we would have been 3-0 up at half time. Mistakes happen and change games. Hopefully, even with JVS in charge we can learn from those mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrillhouse Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 hour ago, rass said: They still had match winners in finkler, krishna and roly. finkler is a shitcunt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 9 hours ago, morphine said: One Rose error caused this. Are you saying there is no room for error? Given that it did happen (I.e. context), still not a good result? No room for errors like that, no. Not in a regular season game, and certainly not in sudden-death final. Don't forget Rose could been playing on Barbarousis.... As I said a win is a win. But IMO its not as convincing and heroic as made out given the team phoenix had out on the park and that we're supposed to be title contenders. And I'm not going to ignore the perennial failure of JVS to coach a decent defense, although Jakobsen is quality and he should thank Sorenson for his recruitment and talent identification skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 Seems like a few people want a perfect team and a perfect performance week after week which is completely unrealistic. Its also the easiest position to take because, there is no doubt there will be mistakes and they can go 'ah-ha! A mistake, see I am right again' 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 Buffon made a mistake against Spain.... he must be shit. If you haven't noticed every goal is as a result of a mistake, some just stand out more than others, you need to just chill a bit and enjoy the win, and the Caseres goal, of course. Secondly, is there a chance for a FFA review for the red card? I mean it wasn't intentional and the send off is a harsh enough penalty for the unintentional hand ball even though it hit just below his shoulder with his arm in a natural position when falling to the side. I know I am clutching at straws but is that a defence at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 52 minutes ago, Kiro Kompiro said: No room for errors like that, no. Not in a regular season game, and certainly not in sudden-death final. Don't forget Rose could been playing on Barbarousis.... As I said a win is a win. But IMO its not as convincing and heroic as made out given the team phoenix had out on the park and that we're supposed to be title contenders. And I'm not going to ignore the perennial failure of JVS to coach a decent defense, although Jakobsen is quality and he should thank Sorenson for his recruitment and talent identification skill. I don't think anyone is saying it was a flawless performance. There's significant room for improvement. People are pleased because we won when we (pretty clearly) weren't at our best and with a fair bit of adversity during the game. Good teams do that, they don't always win by playing perfect football. With regards to appealing the red card, I've probably got it completely wrong, but the way I look at it is Sorensen should be considered to be the equivalent of any other defender, once he steps out of his box. And if Chapman or Jakobsen had done that to deny a clear-cut goal scoring opportunity, they'd be sent off (at least as far as I'm concerned), therefore Sorensen's red was fair enough and we shouldn't bother appealing it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 26 minutes ago, Dylan said: Seems like a few people want a perfect team and a perfect performance week after week which is completely unrealistic. Its also the easiest position to take because, there is no doubt there will be mistakes and they can go 'ah-ha! A mistake, see I am right again' Yes because supporting this club has give us years of perfect teams and perfect performances week to week, and a full trophy cabinet so thats what we're used to. That mistake was another in a long list of Grade A cock-ups. Defense is the issue as it always has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, Kiro Kompiro said: Yes because supporting this club has give us years of perfect teams and perfect performances week to week, and a full trophy cabinet so thats what we're used to. That mistake was another in a long list of Grade A cock-ups. Defense is the issue as it always has been. That's not the point he was getting at at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, Kiro Kompiro said: Yes because supporting this club has give us years of perfect teams and perfect performances week to week, and a full trophy cabinet so thats what we're used to. That mistake was another in a long list of Grade A cock-ups. Defense is the issue as it always has been. I fully get were your coming from @Kiro Kompiro but that first 45 has given me atleast an inkling that it will be a different story this season. Yes we still have an average defence and an underperforming manager but from what I've seen after the first game I'm more than happy on the how we are going. After watching most of the other 4 games I really don't think any team has played well or looks exceptionally good. It's a longish season with a finals campaign so after round 1 at least we are genuinely in the mix. I'm not on the negative bus yet but I've still got a ticket. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, bt50 said: That's not the point he was getting at at all. Oh please. It depends on what you see as the clubs objective. If its "to make the finals" this club is successful (moderately). be happy and content. If its to win titles then its been an abject failure. Until that changes, then by definition, things need to be done better. That means casting a critical eye over everything and everyone so that they improve with ultimate aim being Champions. There has been no progress in a defensive sense since the club's inception. Its not acceptable to sweep that under the carpet. Get a defensive coach in or give JVS the flick as he has shown he simply cannot do it. 10 minutes ago, Jovan said: I fully get were your coming from @Kiro Kompiro but that first 45 has given me atleast an inkling that it will be a different story this season. Yes we still have an average defence and an underperforming manager but from what I've seen after the first game I'm more than happy on the how we are going. After watching most of the other 4 games I really don't think any team has played well or looks exceptionally good. It's a longish season with a finals campaign so after round 1 at least we are genuinely in the mix. I'm not on the negative bus yet but I've still got a ticket. What kills me is the defensive coaching-players like Chapman-an Australian youth captain literally go backwards under JVS. Matt Thompson had his career killed by him. Ramsay? Where's Clisby now? Edited October 9, 2016 by Kiro Kompiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecguymer Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 57 minutes ago, playmaker said: Secondly, is there a chance for a FFA review for the red card? I mean it wasn't intentional and the send off is a harsh enough penalty for the unintentional hand ball even though it hit just below his shoulder with his arm in a natural position when falling to the side. I know I am clutching at straws but is that a defence at all? Unfortunately, the handball was a fairly clear "denial of an obvious goal-scoring opportunity" (without the handball, it most likely would have been the Wellington player with the ball vs an open net), which means that IF it is seen as deliberate, it has to be a straight red; so unless they think they can convince the FFA that it was in no way deliberate...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rass Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 20 minutes ago, Kiro Kompiro said: Oh please. It depends on what you see as the clubs objective. If its "to make the finals" this club is successful (moderately). be happy and content. If its to win titles then its been an abject failure. Until that changes, then by definition, things need to be done better. That means casting a critical eye over everything and everyone so that they improve with ultimate aim being Champions. There has been no progress in a defensive sense since the club's inception. Its not acceptable to sweep that under the carpet. Get a defensive coach in or give JVS the flick as he has shown he simply cannot do it. What kills me is the defensive coaching-players like Chapman-an Australian youth captain literally go backwards under JVS. Matt Thompson had his career killed by him. Ramsay? Where's Clisby now? So your expectation was a 0-2 win, but because we won 0-1 our defence is fukd and the whole world will end tomorrow because that's our history. Stop using the history card as an excuse for everything. We got the result and we're on our way for 2016-2017. As said above, it's the start of the season and no one will peak in round 1. Nor should they. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 Just now, rass said: So your expectation was a 0-2 win, but because we won 0-1 our defence is fukd and the whole world will end tomorrow because that's our history. Stop using the history card as an excuse for everything. We got the result and we're on our way for 2016-2017. As said above, it's the start of the season and no one will peak in round 1. Nor should they. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. G Santayana. What makes you think "this time, its different"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSeater Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 hour ago, playmaker said: Secondly, is there a chance for a FFA review for the red card? I mean it wasn't intentional and the send off is a harsh enough penalty for the unintentional hand ball even though it hit just below his shoulder with his arm in a natural position when falling to the side. I know I am clutching at straws but is that a defence at all? Personally I hope we don't. At the end of the day, intentional or not it was always a red card. If we appeal, it is almost impossible that it will be overturned. I think that also if we do appeal it may show that we are desperate to have Sorensen play, which may cause Bouzanis to think the club don't see him as up to the task for the derby. Even small things like that can damage a player's confidence, and as a fairly inexperienced keeper heading into one of the biggest fixtures in Australian football, he needs all the confidence he can get. We have to make sure we really get behind him this week 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Kiro Kompiro said: Oh please. It depends on what you see as the clubs objective. If its "to make the finals" this club is successful (moderately). be happy and content. If its to win titles then its been an abject failure. Until that changes, then by definition, things need to be done better. That means casting a critical eye over everything and everyone so that they improve with ultimate aim being Champions. There has been no progress in a defensive sense since the club's inception. Its not acceptable to sweep that under the carpet. Get a defensive coach in or give JVS the flick as he has shown he simply cannot do it. What kills me is the defensive coaching-players like Chapman-an Australian youth captain literally go backwards under JVS. Matt Thompson had his career killed by him. Ramsay? Where's Clisby now? Clubs objective? They've said repeatedly in the off season that its to win silverware. Happy and content, yeh perhaps for now. Ultimately that will be realised when we claim silverware. If we dont i wont be. Isolated, 3 points on the road is a good result no matter how its played imo. Every game you play there should be positives to take from it, and things to take away that you can improve on. In this match, the first half was as good as anyone played over the entire weekend. Most days that half results in 3 goals imo. Second half, Rose made a bad error that made things a bit harder, but even then we were reasonably solid in defence and possession all things considered for the final half hour. Plenty to work on, but plenty of positives to take away. I think we are all aware of our defensive frailties over the journey. A clean sheet is a good start, lets wait and see what happens going forward. Also, not disagreeing with a lot of players that have gone backwards under JVS, but in fairness for every Ramsay you have a Mooy, Redmayne a Fornaroli etc. Edited October 9, 2016 by bt50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, Kiro Kompiro said: Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. G Santayana. What makes you think "this time, its different"? Because we're on three points after week 1 for the second time in our club's history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, bt50 said: Redmayne? 1 minute ago, SF33 said: Because we're on three points after week 1 for the second time in our club's history? Hmmmm..OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dylan said: Seems like a few people want a perfect team and a perfect performance week after week which is completely unrealistic. Its also the easiest position to take because, there is no doubt there will be mistakes and they can go 'ah-ha! A mistake, see I am right again' I look at it this way. Rose was a second option at left back at the CCM. So far this season/offseason I don't see Rose being an improvement over any of our left backs we had last season. For me this wouldn't be too much of an issue if it wasn't for the fact that our defence was the biggest issue last season. Regarding your second point if a player shows they're solid and will be reliable over time then mistakes happen and can be understood. Watching Rose play so far he's looked nervous with the ball at his feet and his decision making when passing hasn't been the best. So it's not just one mistake but a general overlook of what he brings to the team. Edited October 9, 2016 by n i k o 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 27 minutes ago, n i k o said: I look at it this way. Rose was a second option at left back at the CCM. So far this season/offseason I don't see Rose being an improvement over any of our left backs we had last season. For me this wouldn't be too much of an issue if it wasn't for the fact that our defence was the biggest issue last season. Regarding your second point if a player shows they're solid and will be reliable over time then mistakes happen and can be understood. Watching Rose play so far he's looked nervous with the ball at his feet and his decision making when passing hasn't been the best. So it's not just one mistake but a general overlook of what he brings to the team. Not sure about that. He played 23 matches for CCM last season, 22 of which for the full 90. But your general comments about our defence are spot on. IMO Rose, Malik and Chapman all run too far with the ball before releasing the pass, and that's why we get caught upfield so often. Coaching issue fair and square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 9 minutes ago, jw1739 said: Not sure about that. He played 23 matches for CCM last season, 22 of which for the full 90. But your general comments about our defence are spot on. IMO Rose, Malik and Chapman all run too far with the ball before releasing the pass, and that's why we get caught upfield so often. Coaching issue fair and square. The other thing with Rose being dropped was that it was towards the end of the season where they were 'looking to the future' so to speak and playing a young bloke at LB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Kiro Kompiro said: Maybe I'm missing the point. Pretty sure Bolton was our keeper the last (and only previous) time we won a season opener. You're talking about the team ignoring the mistakes of the past and that we are logically going to see a similar result this year to the past couple. Personally, I took a few things out of the game that represented growth from this team from both the recent past and the issues that have plagued it since it started. We've typically been either underwhelming to start a season or put in a solid, workmanlike performance to achieve a point. This year has started with a win from a similar 'ok' performance. We've started the season with all of our visa players available and probably 0-1 of our nominal starting 11 players injured. And all of our visa players started and looked somewhere between solid and very good We capitalised on an early dominance by scoring first (though we admittedly should have scored one or two more) We switched things up by taking a more defensive mindset following the red card (with Brandan being substituted for Malik) to preserve the lead. Our goalkeepers took care of the few genuine opportunities that came their way. We won away from home. We were actually successful in parking the bus and not coughing up a one goal lead. I think the bottom point may be the most significant. The old Melbourne Heart and early Melbourne City would have had no problem coughing up that lead, following the red card. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) But wasn't Rose playing CB in the first half? It looked to me we were playing 3 back with Kilkenny dropping in. Edited October 10, 2016 by playmaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embee Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) I found the gamesmanship and time-wasting towards the end in particular very encouraging. Pretty much since inception we've been guilty of being push-overs with a lack of that nasty edge that successful teams posses. The fact the Phoenix were under strength doesn't lessen the win for me either, typically in this kind of situation we've choked and been unable to get all three points. Also, let's not forget we were missing Cahill and Franjic, so we were not at full strength. Edited October 10, 2016 by Embee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 They were missing 5 or 6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, Embee said: I found the gamesmanship and time-wasting towards the end in particular very encouraging. Pretty much since inception we've been guilty of being push-overs with a lack of that nasty edge that successful teams posses. The fact the Phoenix were under strength doesn't lessen the win for me either, typically in this kind of situation we've choked and been unable to get all three points. Also, let's not forget we were missing Cahill and Franjic, so we were not at full strength. The South American influence. Great to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, Tony999 said: They were missing 5 or 6? 5 on int duty (McGlinchey, Barbarouses, Durante, Doyle, Fenton) Of which imo, Barbarouses would have been the only one that made a significant difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAM10 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 5 hours ago, n i k o said: The South American influence. Great to see. Plus the aussie of south American extraction : Caceres. Imo, he was the best player of the first half. Won us the game once again with his class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 3 hours ago, DAM10 said: Plus the aussie of south American extraction : Caceres. Imo, he was the best player of the first half. Won us the game once again with his class. He was class. However at the very least Brattan was equal to Caceras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjake1234 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 The FFA match review committee has determined that "Thomas Sorensen will serve a suspension of one (1) match, being the minimum sanction for the offence of denying the opposing team an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball." Fair enough - but how on earth can they say "deliberately"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 2 hours ago, mjake1234 said: The FFA match review committee has determined that "Thomas Sorensen will serve a suspension of one (1) match, being the minimum sanction for the offence of denying the opposing team an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball." Fair enough - but how on earth can they say "deliberately"? I was thinking about this and there should be more to it than this. I'm hoping the club is appealing the decision in whatever way they can. It was clearly unintentional and the sending off should be sufficient punishment without having to miss the following week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heart_fan10 Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 26 minutes ago, n i k o said: I was thinking about this and there should be more to it than this. I'm hoping the club is appealing the decision in whatever way they can. It was clearly unintentional and the sending off should be sufficient punishment without having to miss the following week. Has there ever been an instance where a player has been sent off but not missed the following week... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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