R 4: City vs. Newcastle, Fri 30 Oct, 7.40 pm, AAMI Park

[jw1739]

The problem has been since day dot that JvS has not been able to translate his theoretical understanding of play into sustained, concrete performances from the team under varying situations. He no doubt understands the game from a strategy point of view but what he has lacked is the ability to get the players to perform consistently. No matter how many players we turn over and replace, JvS issues the same excuses. The problem is obvious. He lacks man management skills that define successful coaches like Merrick, Popo, Arnie or Ange. It's no accident that his win ratio is just over 30% and has been this way pretty much since he's been with us. To win silverware you need to be around 40-50%.

It's interesting that as a player in Italy JvS was suspended for several matches for challenging what the coach wanted the team to do...

Anyway, in addition to the issues of recruiting injured players, injury management - I'm getting somewhat suspicious about the long times that certain players are apparently still "injured" - do they really want to come back?, curious squad selections and bench management, I think it's pretty clear that once again there are dressing room issues within the club. As there were back in S1 with Simon Colosimo.

"I don't think it will surprise anyone to say I didn't get along with the coach. We didn't see eye to eye. Don't get me wrong, I love playing great football, but I want to be fighting for the title. John (Van't Schip) said I could leave, but then he reneged on it."

The Perth and Newcastle matches were huge opportunities for us. We blew both. Not good enough.

[Murfy1]

Video of the discussion at the link

 

Mark Bosnich says lack of leadership from Melbourne City’s senior players the reason for Newcastle Jets loss

 

November 1, 2015

 

THE lack of leadership shown by Melbourne City’s senior players could cost them the best chance they’ve ever had of winning an A-League title.

That’s the opinion of Fox Sports football commentator Mark Bosnich who, along with fellow Shootout panellists John Kosmina and Ned Zelic, have voiced their concerns over the dramatic collapse that saw City squander a two-goal lead and lose 3-2 to Newcastle Jets on Friday night.

Kosmina got the ball rolling, suggesting that City coach John van’t Schip would have ruing the half time whistle at AAMI Park.

“Melbourne City should not have lost this game,” Kosmina said.

“It was one of those games where you didn’t want half time to come because Melbourne City were playing that well.”

Zelic suggested that despite the home side’s dominance, there were signs that the Jets were not far away from mounting a comeback.

“Towards the end of that first half they (the Jets) were getting into that advanced area where they were just lacking that final piece of quality,” Zelic said.

“You’ve got a situation where Melbourne City were on top and just strolling through Newcastle’s defence and then they have come back in a way.

“As a coach you have to tell your team, look they’re coming,”

But Bosnich intervened, declaring that van’t Schip cannot play the match for his team and his core of established players must take responsibility for City’s abject collapse.

“My real anger with the Melbourne City team is their senior players,” Bosnich said.

“Thomas Sorensen their most senior player, Pat Kisnorbo their captain and Aaron Mooy ... those three, when things start going pear shaped and Kantarovski scores that goal and Newcastle are completely on top, John van’t Schip can’t come on the pitch and call a time out and say we’ve got to do something.

“They’re the ones who have to take responsibility. If they’re going to collapse like that continually, people are going to walk away from them and they’re not going to do anything this season.”

 

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/mark-bosnich-says-lack-of-leadership-from-melbourne-citys-senior-players-the-reason-for-newcastle-jets-loss/story-e6frf4gl-1227590161670

[Ray]

Of course the obvious answer is for Kisnorbo to pass short to a player than can distribute the ball. Mood of course would be ideal but we would miss his contribution upfield. Paartalu is the obvious choice but his passing is little better at the moment. In any case JVS is not instructing this so Paddy goes long

Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics.

I thought I would take you up on your notion about Paddy and Paartalu. The attached are all the statistics that I could find on the MSCF website from the Heidelberg game onwards. I went through all the statistics and plotted all on an Excel spreadsheet, created a pivot table yada yada yada. Of course I could have made some errors in cutting and pasting the hundreds of numbers so will stand corrected.

So the statistics are quite surprising IMHO. Of course some players have very few passes so could be discounted. It also challenges the notions that some people here have about who are the stars and who are the duds when it comes to passing.

Row Labels	Sum of TP	Average of LP	Average of PA
Michael Zullo	9	0.0%	88.9%
Corey Gamerio	9	0.0%	88.9%
Jason Trifiro	42	1.1%	87.2%
Steve Kuzmanovski	102	1.4%	83.1%
Stefan Mauk	136	6.9%	82.4%
David Williams	44	9.1%	80.9%
Connor Chapman	267	19.3%	80.4%
Bruno Fornaroli	162	2.4%	79.5%
Paulo Retre	196	15.2%	79.1%
Erik Paartalu	153	5.8%	78.3%
Aaron Mooy	368	11.3%	77.7%
Jack Clisby	153	14.1%	74.9%
Robert Koren	99	7.3%	73.2%
Wade Dekker	87	4.1%	72.3%
Patrick Kisnorbo	283	21.3%	71.9%
Herman Espindola	40	1.7%	71.7%
Ben Garuccio	103	16.3%	68.7%
Jacob Melling	126	16.1%	66.4%
Matthew Millar	34	11.9%	64.3%
Stefan Zinni	30	0.0%	62.5%
Grand Total	2443	9.4%	76.5%

[n i k o]

All I'll say is when a defender misplaces a pass the effect is usually more likely to lead to a goal. Not sure about those numbers but on an app I have Kisnorbo has a 73% success pass rate when distributor of the ball. I'd say most people's remarks are warranted regarding this area of his game. 

[dr lime]

 

 

 Back four players' passing statistics, especially central defenders, always look better than they really are because more than half of their passes are across the back four, back to the keeper or easy passes bounced off deep lying midfielders or full backs to be then recircled across the back four or to the keeper again. That is, passes made when in acres of space and not in traffic. Numbers only tell part of the story. Deep midfielders, depending on how they play are also likely to have better stats than they deserve due to the "bouncing factor". Nice work with the stats but not sure it proves that Kis and Partaalu are passing guns. Actually I don't think Paartalu is generally a bad passer, but was just terrible against Victory and deserved to get dropped. But should have at least been on the bench against Newcastle as many have said.     

Edited November 1, 2015 by dr lime

[Ray]

I'm not sure what criteria they use to determine Pass Accuracy but it may include a bad pass as the pass went to the player, but was cut-out because the receiver waited for the pass instead of going to the ball.

Here's the statistics - first the Victory game followed by Newcastle game

NAME	TP	LP	PA	Missed Passes
Steve Kuzmanovski	23	0	95.7%	1
Herman Espindola	10	0	90.0%	1
Michael Zullo	9	0	88.9%	1
Bruno Fornaroli	37	5.4%	83.8%	6
Aaron Mooy	70	12.9%	81.0%	13
Wade Dekker	14	7.1%	78.6%	3
Erik Paartalu	46	4.3%	76.1%	11
Paulo Retre	37	13.5%	75.7%	9
Jack Clisby	40	12.5%	75.0%	10
Robert Koren	26	11.5%	73.1%	7
Stefan Mauk	11	9.1%	72.7%	3
Patrick Kisnorbo	49	14.3%	71.4%	14
	372			79
Long term team average			76.5%
NAME	TP	LP	PA	Missed Passes
Stefan Mauk	50	2%	90%	5
Paulo Retre	34	15%	88%	4
Corey Gamerio	7	0%	86%	1
Wade Dekker	13	0%	85%	2
Aaron Mooy	58	2%	83%	10
Patrick Kisnorbo	59	31%	80%	12
Connor Chapman	49	20%	80%	10
David Williams	18	11%	78%	4
Ben Garuccio	35	11%	74%	9
Jacob Melling	30	17%	73%	8
Steve Kuzmanovski	27	0%	70%	8
Bruno Fornaroli	26	4%	69%	8
Matthew Millar	6	17%	50%	3
	412			84
Long term team average			76.5%

[pattyd89]

I must be a sucker for punishment to keep going to these games and expecting anything different! Cancerous mentality! 

[KSK_47]

I must be a sucker for punishment to keep going to these games and expecting anything different! Cancerous mentality! 

Thats what JVS said!

[Imperial Pints]

A-League talking points: Melbourne City fail another test of character

Leadership, resilience and a never say die attitude – character traits that were sorely missing from Melbourne City’s second half performance on Friday

Jonathan Howcroft

The 1956 FA Cup final is remembered for Bert Trautmann’s heroics. The Manchester City goalkeeper made a string of late saves despite dislocating five vertebrae in the 75th minute. Was it ignorance that made him continue? Stupidity? Sporting mythology being what it is, Trautmann’s pain threshold has entered legend as an enduring testament of character.

Across town, the greatest individual performance in Manchester United’s modern era was delivered by Roy Keane when he dragged his team past Juventus in the 1999 Champions League semi-final despite knowing he would be suspended for the showpiece.

“I did not think I could have a higher opinion of any footballer than I already had of the Irishman but he rose even further in my estimation at the Stadio Delle Alpi,” wrote Sir Alex Ferguson in his first autobiography. “The minute he was booked and out of the final, he seemed to redouble his efforts to get the team there. It was the most emphatic display of selflessness I have seen on a football field. Pounding over every blade of grass, competing as if he would rather die of exhaustion than lose, he inspired all around him.”

Leadership, resilience and a never say-die-attitude; character traits missing from Melbourne City’s second half performance on Friday night against the Newcastle Jets and arguably absent from the club since Melbourne Heart first took the field in 2010.

The post match assessment of Steve Horvat, former Socceroo and now ABC pundit, is hard to dispute following City’s implosion from a 2-0 half-time lead to a 3-2 home defeat. Horvat suggested that the Jets’ gutsy display showed “the type of character that you build a club on”.

He added in a series of tweets directed at City that, “money can buy you a lot of things, but it can’t buy a soul”.

As the tide turned slowly but surely City’s callow midfield was overrun. Industrious in the first half Stefan Mauk and Jacob Melling spent the second chasing shadows. Aaron Mooy, the league’s best player, wandered aimlessly. Ahead of them John van ’t Schip’s substitutions backfired. Behind them Paulo Retre was turned inside out by Enver Alivodic.

A game firmly in City’s grasp was prised off them with meek resistance. There was no character, no leadership.

Youth and inexperience are obvious retorts to Friday’s disintegration. City have a long and credentialed injury list, but the spine and guts of the team is not on it. The players of character a coach would turn to in times of trouble just don’t exist at the club. As both Heart and City they have never had an abundance of character. When the going gets tough City can expect to be found wanting.

For a club conceived as Heart there has always been a lack of ticker. Now in its sixth season, with the riches of the City Football Group behind it, this consistent oversight reflects poorly on the coaching and recruitment staff.

Scanning City’s squad, outside of a clutch of competent defenders there is only the 20-year-old Melling who shows any appetite for the muck and bullets approach required to dig out results when the chips are down. There are no abrasive mavericks to jumpstart a flatlining contest. Van ’t Schip is not and has never been spoiled for choice over the selection of a captain.

If he sees out the season the Dutchman will become the fourth most experienced coach in A-League history. He currently has a win ratio of 32%, the lowest of any manager with more than 100 appearances on the competition’s touchlines. The club he built and re-inherited has always been neat and methodical but lacking drive and a cutting edge. He has had enough time and resources to identify and remedy these inadequacies.

This column endorsed Scott Miller’s Novocastrian revolution last week and at AAMI Park the league’s youngest coach outperformed his vastly more credentialled opposite number with one half-time teamtalk and a single innocuous substitution. Mark Birighitti spoke afterwards in glowing terms of the “bollocking” Miller had given the Jets during the interval. Jason Hoffman celebrated Miller’s instinct in bringing on Cameron Watson, a defensive midfielder, despite trailing 2-0 and seemingly out of the game.

[haz]

 

If he sees out the season the Dutchman will become the fourth most experienced coach in A-League history. He currently has a win ratio of 32%, the lowest of any manager with more than 100 appearances on the competition’s touchlines. 

 

I've seen this stat to many times already, get him the fuck out of Melbourne!

[playmaker]

Sums it up nicely. If there are many players that 'wandered around aimlessly' then it is for a reason, lack of direction, lack of game plan and lack of leadership. Everyone noticed the clueless double substitution. Given the momentum had already shifted in the last 10 minutes of the first half, put tough, defensive players on and park the bus and counter with Mooy and Fornaroli if they try to press forward too much. I don't understand what JVS was trying to achieve; I don't think anyone did on or off the field, that's the problem.

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[KSK_47]

 

If he sees out the season the Dutchman will become the fourth most experienced coach in A-League history. He currently has a win ratio of 32%, the lowest of any manager with more than 100 appearances on the competition’s touchlines. 

The thing I find the most baffling is (as i have said many many times previously) he is an IMPORTED coach too. We looked at all the Australian options and not only chose him over a local, but we also give him chance after chance to prove himself and praise him for his tactics!

Holy mother of fuck can you please, please, please just fucking fuck off!

 

Edited November 1, 2015 by KSK_47

[belaguttman]

Its good to see the media finally turning some critical attention to Heart/City coaches and team culture. We've been banging on about it here for years but the media have studiously avoided it... until now.

[Torn Asunder]

This loss has touched a nerve. 3 days later and I'm still mighty pissed and feeling angry about the game.  

[kingofhearts]

Let's all spare a moment too for the bloke in front of me at the game saying his mate had 1000 on us to win.

His family were eating shoes for tea that night.

[pattyd89]

This loss has touched a nerve. 3 days later and I'm still mighty pissed and feeling angry about the game.  

I am in the same boat as you my friend. So much rage.

[FFC1996]

I am in the same boat as you my friend. So much rage.

I hope those who are out there on the the pitch are feeling it as well. 

[SF33]

Video of the discussion at the link

 

Mark Bosnich says lack of leadership from Melbourne City’s senior players the reason for Newcastle Jets loss

 

 

 

November 1, 2015

 

 

 

THE lack of leadership shown by Melbourne City’s senior players could cost them the best chance they’ve ever had of winning an A-League title.

 

That’s the opinion of Fox Sports football commentator Mark Bosnich who, along with fellow Shootout panellists John Kosmina and Ned Zelic, have voiced their concerns over the dramatic collapse that saw City squander a two-goal lead and lose 3-2 to Newcastle Jets on Friday night.

 

Kosmina got the ball rolling, suggesting that City coach John van’t Schip would have ruing the half time whistle at AAMI Park.

 

“Melbourne City should not have lost this game,” Kosmina said.

 

“It was one of those games where you didn’t want half time to come because Melbourne City were playing that well.”

 

Zelic suggested that despite the home side’s dominance, there were signs that the Jets were not far away from mounting a comeback.

 

“Towards the end of that first half they (the Jets) were getting into that advanced area where they were just lacking that final piece of quality,” Zelic said.

 

“You’ve got a situation where Melbourne City were on top and just strolling through Newcastle’s defence and then they have come back in a way.

 

“As a coach you have to tell your team, look they’re coming,”

 

But Bosnich intervened, declaring that van’t Schip cannot play the match for his team and his core of established players must take responsibility for City’s abject collapse.

 

“My real anger with the Melbourne City team is their senior players,” Bosnich said.

 

“Thomas Sorensen their most senior player, Pat Kisnorbo their captain and Aaron Mooy ... those three, when things start going pear shaped and Kantarovski scores that goal and Newcastle are completely on top, John van’t Schip can’t come on the pitch and call a time out and say we’ve got to do something.

 

“They’re the ones who have to take responsibility. If they’re going to collapse like that continually, people are going to walk away from them and they’re not going to do anything this season.”

 

 

 

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/mark-bosnich-says-lack-of-leadership-from-melbourne-citys-senior-players-the-reason-for-newcastle-jets-loss/story-e6frf4gl-1227590161670

Definitely disagree with Kosmina's analysis and agree with Zelic's. At the time, I was stoked to hang on to 2-0 when the half time whistle came. I distinctly remember thinking at the time that it was a sign of growth that we didn't let them in before the 45. The players were already running out of steam.

Zelic and Bosnich's comments reflect some of the posts in here: criticising one certainly doesn't excuse the other. It was a pathetic performance from both the coaches and the players.

[SF33]

I hope those who are out there on the the pitch are feeling it as well. 

And there it is. That's when it gets to the point where you wonder "Why do I even bother?" When you're convinced that the supporters care more about the losses than the players. The players should have been absolutely gutted with that display. I'm not sure I've ever seen that sort of emotion from the group.

[KSK_47]

criticising one certainly doesn't excuse the other. It was a pathetic performance from both the coaches and the players.

A perfect summary of this game.

I am sick of thinking about it because every time I do my vision goes blurry and I want to flip tables.

 

[playmaker]

A perfect summary of this game.

I am sick of thinking about it because every time I do my vision goes blurry and I want to flip tables.

 

I got none left to flip [emoji3]

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