AFL 2015 Season

[Thrillhouse]

That's my reaction to the Highlights Video of the 2011 GF when you see Cloke getting all up and about in the first half before Lonergan got moved on to him and put him to sleep.
The point is if a Horse wins the Turnbull and the Caulfield Cup and then goes on to win the Melbourne Cup... the earlier victories in hindsight obviously were strong indications of where things where heading even if he wasn't the favourite for the race.

probly forgetting we took the risk of playing injured players, jolly was done in the prelim, reid had busted ribs i think and beams missed all together

undone us in the last quarter, would say that has barely anything to do with the previous games that season

[cadete]

probly forgetting we took the risk of playing injured players, jolly was done in the prelim, reid had busted ribs i think and beams missed all together

undone us in the last quarter, would say that has barely anything to do with the previous games that season

You got to be kidding me... you would probably find faults with Black Caviar's formline 

You lost to Geelong three out of all three times that year and lost the Grand Final comphrensivoely by 38 points (six goals - One was even kicked by Ling) when you were in front at half time and this was against a side that had to use their sub early in the game when its highest scoring tall forward of the year was replaced by a second year midfielder. 
(Whilst the forward line had to be spearheaded by a bloke who was almost pushed out the finals side for a near dead Mooney.)

I supposed we should have beaten you four times and not only three including two thrashings for you to believe Geelong were the better side in 2011.

NOTE: You guys should consider yourselves lucky Bomber's handling of Gazza fucked up 2010 for us and let you beat St Kilda instead of us that year.. mind you it still took you two goes. 

Edited September 13, 2015 by cadete

[Nate]

who really cares, Richmond failing to win a final in yet another season is a far more relevant and hilarious talking point

[Pete Heartspur]

who really cares, Richmond failing to win a final in yet another season is a far more relevant and hilarious talking point

Watching Richmond lose in the finals has seriously become my favourite time of year!

[kingofhearts]

Richomns shouldn't of even been close. The roos were clearly the better team after half time. They've got a real good shot of knocking off sydney i reckon

[cadete]

Richomns shouldn't of even been close. The roos were clearly the better team after half time. They've got a real good shot of knocking off sydney i reckon

And then losing another Preliminary Final... Who cares.

Once again the Final Eight proves itself unnecessary and stupid.

[Nate]

And then losing another Preliminary Final... Who cares.

Once again the Final Eight proves itself unnecessary and stupid.

It makes a shit ton of money for the AFL, not sure they'd agree with you

[cadete]

And then losing another Preliminary Final... Who cares.

Once again the Final Eight proves itself unnecessary and stupid.

It makes a shit ton of money for the AFL, not sure they'd agree with you

That hardly makes my point any less valid... the AFL also thought moving South to Sydney, killing Fitzroy and destroying the VFA into what it is now were good ideas.

I know I am being a tad bit idealistic but the AFL could have for example just created a Sydney side like they did with GWS and GC and at least merged Fitzroy with South for both clubs respective fans' which would have been a strong enough club to survive the modern age and a plausible concept considering Fitzroy did play at the Junction Oval for a long time.

And anyone who thinks the current VFL gets more fans and more passionate fans than the old VFA did is kidding themselves.

[hedaik]

And then losing another Preliminary Final... Who cares.

Once again the Final Eight proves itself unnecessary and stupid.

Ive been saying the same thing all along since 2 weeks ago. 

[Nate]

That hardly makes my point any less valid... the AFL also thought moving South to Sydney, killing Fitzroy and destroying the VFA into what it is now were good ideas.
I know I am being a tad bit idealistic but the AFL could have for example just created a Sydney side like they did with GWS and GC and at least merged Fitzroy with South for both clubs respective fans' which would have been a strong enough club to survive the modern age and a plausible concept considering Fitzroy did play at the Junction Oval for a long time.

And anyone who thinks the current VFL gets more fans and more passionate fans than the old VFA did is kidding themselves.

I'm aware you're one to often go off on tangents but even this is impressive, wtf does the VFA and relocation have to do with anything? Especially given they were decisions made decades ago by an organisation which doesn't compete in a remotely similar market/sporting landscape as it does today. 

Fair enough that you think the McIntyre final 8 system is pointless (which to be fair is reflected throughout history with a few exceptions) but at least argue that point. At the end of the day, I believe the league is better off by having the final 8 format as it gives mid-range clubs and its supporters something to play for and get excited about where otherwise, the season would probably peter out by about Round 12 for half the teams.

[bt50]

I'm aware you're one to often go off on tangents but even this is impressive, wtf does the VFA and relocation have to do with anything? Especially given they were decisions made decades ago by an organisation which doesn't compete in a remotely similar market/sporting landscape as it does today. 

Fair enough that you think the McIntyre final 8 system is pointless (which to be fair is reflected throughout history with a few exceptions) but at least argue that point. At the end of the day, I believe the league is better off by having the final 8 format as it gives mid-range clubs and its supporters something to play for and get excited about where otherwise, the season would probably peter out by about Round 12 for half the teams.

I agree. I quite like the current finals format. Favours the best teams but gives the others a chance too. Even the old top 5 would have almost nearly every year had the premier come from the top 3 as that's what the system is set up to do.

In an 18 team comp a final 8 is essential to keep interest in the competition.

[cadete]

I'm aware you're one to often go off on tangents but even this is impressive, wtf does the VFA and relocation have to do with anything? Especially given they were decisions made decades ago by an organisation which doesn't compete in a remotely similar market/sporting landscape as it does today. 

Fair enough that you think the McIntyre final 8 system is pointless (which to be fair is reflected throughout history with a few exceptions) but at least argue that point. At the end of the day, I believe the league is better off by having the final 8 format as it gives mid-range clubs and its supporters something to play for and get excited about where otherwise, the season would probably peter out by about Round 12 for half the teams.

1. LOL - The McIntyre Final Eight system was ditched in 1999 mate after Adelaide used its glitches to win the 1998 flag from sixth, the year after they used its glitches to win the 1997 flag after being awarded for some odd reason a home final against Geelong despite Geelong finishing second that year.

2. Another thing that happened in 1999 and not "decades ago" was the merging of the Victorian Reserve Teams with the VFA, however since then every year the AFL has found a new and interesting way to make the VFL even worse than the previous season.

3. And these things are relevant because they demonstrate why just because the AFL likes things a certain way does not therefore make it the best way of doing things as the VFL/AFL have shown with various decisions throughout the last thirty years. You would think this would be bloody obvious to anyone by the standard of footy the AFL was let develop over the past fives years but anyway lets ignore such shit and keep clapping defenders for taking those 30 simple intercept marks a game like what they are doing is alike to Peter fucken Knights in 1984.

4. The main reason I think the final eight is stupid which I was making with my post about North which I tried to do as quickly as possible and thankfully others like Hediak understood is that these lower ranked finals team dont really get much at all for playing in finals.

North are the perfect example of why the final eight is stupid, now I know they just won a game so PPL are pumping them up but the reality is that they did nothing in the real finals series last season (As in the Final Four) which they scrapped into against a Geelong side who started playing halfway through the last term by going long to Hawkins despite his broken back.

So on the back of making a prelim they go after Waite and Higgins... but the reality is that even with these good additions (In the case of Waite less so) North are not going to make the Grand Final so at the end of day like last season all they are going to go home with is a finals win against a team that cant win finals and maybe at best against a side with half its players missing and before you know it a number of the most reliable players in their side will be retired and they will have to start again.

Then you have the other sides that usually fill these spots which are by two different types of teams which first of are those who are up and coming sides... now with these sides someone like you would argue and say its great that these sides get to gain some finals experience.

However, really because of the stupid size of the finals series they dont really get any meaningful finals experience because the difference between a low ranked final in the first week/a final in the second week with those in the last two weeks is immeasurable. Just look at Richmond yesterday, all the gained was a loss to a side that wont get anywhere near the flag instead of better picks and a better preseason. Its like comparing running in the Geelong Cup to running in the Caulfield Cup.

The other type of team is a team that is the ones slowly on the way out... now when these teams make the lower finals positions it usually sees them like the Essendon teams of the early 2000's try to keep making the finals but ultimately the win nothing and end up worse of by trading picks for top up players they give them short term gains.

Footy is littered with clubs who have gone after players to top up for one last big charge that never got there... Carey to Adelaide, Tarrant (As a forward) to Freo ended two coaches careers - Obviously Tarrant revived his career under Harvey as a defender.

5. Lastly the the thing that shits me about the final eight is that it makes the whole Home and Away Season look pointless when sides who win half there games are awarded a chance to win the flag.

[MHFCRC]

did need to win 13 this year to have a crack.. plus I thought both elimination finals were of better quality than both qualifying finals for what it's worth. 

No one from 5-8 is gonna win the flag again, but if the extra cut-throat finals produced by having 8 finalists gives us a higher amount of high quality matches like it already has this year I'm not gonna complain. 

[thisphantomfortress]

 

However, really because of the stupid size of the finals series they dont really get any meaningful finals experience because the difference between a low ranked final in the first week/a final in the second week with those in the last two weeks is immeasurable. Just look at Richmond yesterday, all the gained was a loss to a side that wont get anywhere near the flag instead of better picks and a better preseason. Its like comparing running in the Geelong Cup to running in the Caulfield Cup.

I was so worried reading through this there wouldn't be a horse racing reference but you got there.

Edited September 14, 2015 by thisphantomfortress

[MHFCRC]

Geelong Cup used to be a pretty decent form reference for Melb Cup..

[kingofhearts]

What would you suggest Cadete as an alternative then? Just a top 4 i'm guessing?

More finals generate more interest in the game, i can understand that the chance of a team who finishes 5-8 in this finals system has a very low chance of winning the finals, but it's a reward for fans to see their team make the finals. Look at Richmond for example, yes i know they lost yesterday but at least their fans see that some type of progression in the club is being made. Also, even if a team like the western bulldogs go out in the first week, isn't at least good to expose a young team to some finals type pressure?

If you were to shorten the finals then you might as well just make it that the team who finishes on top of the ladder in the regular season is the winner and scrap finals all together.

[Thrillhouse]

brisbane had 4 best and fairest winners 

[cadete]

Geelong Cup used to be a pretty decent form reference for Melb Cup..

It actually did get better when the raiders used for automatic qualification for the Melbourne Cup, however people forget that the European Raiders that come here are mainly G2 horses over there as all G1's in the UK are WFA. The track was never wide enough back in the day though for back runners to truly compete.

What would you suggest Cadete as an alternative then? Just a top 4 i'm guessing?

More finals generate more interest in the game, i can understand that the chance of a team who finishes 5-8 in this finals system has a very low chance of winning the finals, but it's a reward for fans to see their team make the finals. Look at Richmond for example, yes i know they lost yesterday but at least their fans see that some type of progression in the club is being made. Also, even if a team like the western bulldogs go out in the first week, isn't at least good to expose a young team to some finals type pressure?

If you were to shorten the finals then you might as well just make it that the team who finishes on top of the ladder in the regular season is the winner and scrap finals all together.

You think yesterday was finals type pressure???

You missed my whole point, the final eight has created two distinct sets of finals... like the racing analogy I used the elimination finals/semi finals do not provide finals type pressure that the real finals in that of the top four compete in (Qualifying Finals, Preliminary Finals, Grand Final) do.

Usually all that happens is the fans get to see their side win/loss a meaningless game and almost always overestimate their list and recruit accordingly because the game has the word "final" at the end of its name... which then sends them further backwards.

Personally I always thought the final five was the best system in its awarding of each club accordingly for they had finished during the season.
Even a system where we had two USA style Groups or maybe two Divisions in the League with four teams promoted/relegated (But each side still played each other) could provide the added excitement...

The AFL does have long term plans for a twenty team comp with a third WA team talked about by the league in the past and ten clubs in each divisions could work... it worked well for the old VFA.

Edited September 14, 2015 by cadete

[HeartFc]

Hawks/Freo game is gonna be a ripper. I say its gonna be a kick either way.

[Shahanga]

It actually did get better when the raiders used for automatic qualification for the Melbourne Cup, however people forget that the European Raiders that come here are mainly G2 horses over there as all G1's in the UK are WFA. The track was never wide enough back in the day though for back runners to truly compete.

You think yesterday was finals type pressure???

You missed my whole point, the final eight has created two distinct sets of finals... like the racing analogy I used the elimination finals/semi finals do not provide finals type pressure that the real finals in that of the top four compete in (Qualifying Finals, Preliminary Finals, Grand Final) do.

Usually all that happens is the fans get to see their side win/loss a meaningless game and almost always overestimate their list and recruit accordingly because the game has the word "final" at the end of its name... which then sends them further backwards.

Personally I always thought the final five was the best system in its awarding of each club accordingly for they had finished during the season.
Even a system where we had two USA style Groups or maybe two Divisions in the League with four teams promoted/relegated (But each side still played each other) could provide the added excitement...

The AFL does have long term plans for a twenty team comp with a third WA team talked about by the league in the past and ten clubs in each divisions could work... it worked well for the old VFA.

The big drama with a final five is that the minor premiers often went into the grand final having played once in 3 weeks and as a result, lost.  Happened a lot in the NSWRL.

I think 8 is OK.  All your talk about how 5-8 aren't really in it also applied to 4 & 5 in a 5 out of 12 final series, but I suspect the passage of time may have given you rose coloured glasses in regards to that. 

Also (i know you weren't defending it, just getting it off my chest) that McIntyre system was & is crap.  Can't believe the NRL picked it up at the same time AFL dropped it and am so pleased they have ditched it now. I hated it because:

• you could finish 6th, get flogged in a final and still be in it next week
• Only the top 2 got a guaranteed 2nd chance 
• No difference between finishing 4th or 5th
• the 4 vs 5 game was usually meaningless (and often the 3 vs 6 too)

 

[Thrillhouse]

sydney pooftas couldn't even hold out the last minute to keep my money

roos worst team ever to make 2 consecutive prelims

Edited September 19, 2015 by Thrillhouse

[Shahanga]

 

I always thought Sydney would struggle in that game, even though they were at home. Just too many key injuries.

 

[cadete]

sydney pooftas couldn't even hold out the last minute to keep my money

roos worst team ever to make 2 consecutive prelims

Effectively all North did last night was  just qualify for the finals last night, and they will get chainsawed off 2007 style by WCE.

[Thrillhouse]

Effectively all North did last night was  just qualify for the finals last night, and they will get chainsawed off 2007 style by WCE.

while also qualifying for the toughest draw bracket for next season

[cadete]

while also qualifying for the toughest draw bracket for next season

LOL - Yet their fans will still complain about not being given Prime Time spots over sides that still and will always have six times the amount of supporters.

Also I heard Jack Darling may even chuck in a bow in the last quarter Tredgay style.

Edited September 20, 2015 by cadete

[cadete]

I am not the blokes biggest fan and I remember him shitting me constantly one night and me even having a few loud digs at him when we went down in a close one at the SCG. This largely being because the Sydney Accountants around me in the SCC knew no other Swans player's name bar Adam Goodes.

 

But in all seriousness it really is pretty fucken stupid that a guy who has played 373 games, won two Brownlow’s and two flags can’t sit in the back of a car on fucken Grand Final day because for whatever reason (Probably 80% of PPL would do so for a joke) we all know that he would get booed.

 

Likewise this Buddy Rumour stuff really is retarded, because the most obvious conclusion why he did not play on Saturday night was because the poor bloke is scared and depressed about having an epileptic fit during a game on National TV.

 (And PPL can imagine the abuse I have dished out to Buddy throughout most of his career)

Edited September 21, 2015 by cadete

[cadete]

I am Obv going for Freo tonight because my brother supports them and I lived there in high school and of course then there is who they are playing but if the Dockers lose tonight I think that it has to pretty much be a Fail for Ross Lyon as a potential Premiership Coach.

If I was a Freo fan I would think it be time to get someone new anyway.

[bt50]

I am Obv going for Freo tonight because my brother supports them and I lived there in high school and of course then there is who they are playing but if the Dockers lose tonight I think that it has to pretty much be a Fail for Ross Lyon as a potential Premiership Coach.

If I was a Freo fan I would think it be time to get someone new anyway.

I disagree with that tbh, I don't think they have the cattle to have a concerted push at a flag without Ross' tactics.

[hedaik]

If I was a Freo fan I would think it be time to get someone new anyway.

No way, give the man a blank cheque as far as Im concerned. If we can pull Macarthy from GWS for the future and maybe somebody like Schulz as an immediate fix I reckon we'll have a better list in the years ahead than what we've had in the last 2. Our main problem has been attack and thats purely been from our lack of players over recent times than anything to do with our tactics, the fact that Tabener is playing tonight shows that. 

[cadete]

No way, give the man a blank cheque as far as Im concerned. If we can pull Macarthy from GWS for the future and maybe somebody like Schulz as an immediate fix I reckon we'll have a better list in the years ahead than what we've had in the last 2. Our main problem has been attack and thats purely been from our lack of players over recent times than anything to do with our tactics, the fact that Tabener is playing tonight shows that. 

I'm sorry but u are such stereotypical glass half full South/Dockers fan... I'm not meaning to be offensive but I think u will get what I mean heaps of Dockers fan I know are the same.

 

[hedaik]

I'm sorry but u are such stereotypical glass half full South/Dockers fan... I'm not meaning to be offensive but I think u will get what I mean heaps of Dockers fan I know are the same.

 

We've had a long line of shit coaches, we've finally got one that has made us a premiership contender and depending on a couple of factors in the off-season that I mentioned above in my view will keep us in the top 4 for years to come. 

Safer to remain a top 4ish team with a proven coach, rather than chasing number 1 spot in an 18 team comp and risking everything. 

I also agree with BT that we dont have an outstanding player list, I had us 7th/8th at the start of the season. 

[HeartinHobart]

Hedaik, you going next week if you make it?

[bt50]

Not too dissimilar to StKilda under Ross, Freo have a super top 15 but then rely on role players after that. Probably a pretty sound argument that their bottom six are not even top 12 in the comp, but that's a testament to Ross' ability to coach IMO.

sure it ain't pretty, but fuck it's effective 

[cadete]

Not too dissimilar to StKilda under Ross, Freo have a super top 15 but then rely on role players after that. Probably a pretty sound argument that their bottom six are not even top 12 in the comp, but that's a testament to Ross' ability to coach IMO.

sure it ain't pretty, but fuck it's effective 

The culture of acceptance amongst Freo Fans for the "Almost There" is something that I cannot explain to anyone who hasn't lived in Perth... but it has seen many a Diehard Easts fan become very annoyed and in same cases lead to a few straying away from the club from time to time.

I say this having lived in East Freo and spending every weekend of High School with a group of kids who 80% of went for Freo and all went for Easts.

Edited September 25, 2015 by cadete

[hedaik]

Hedaik, you going next week if you make it?

Yeah already registered and guaranteed a ticket. A part of me will be pleased if we lose tonight as it means I save $400 hah. 

The culture of acceptance amongst Freo Fans for the "Almost There" is something that I cannot explain to anyone who hasn't lived in Perth... but it has seen many a Diehard Easts fan become very annoyed and in same cases lead to a few straying away from the club from time to time.

I say this having lived in East Freo and spending every weekend of High School with a group of kids who 80% of went for Freo and all went for Easts.

Its not that I accept 'almost there', its that I believe if you are a top 4 team for long enough then you'll have a good probability of pulling a flag, rather than taking a do or die option with winning a flag or fucking up your next 10 years. Give me the option though and I'd take 20 years of bottom 4 finishes if we could win a flag next week (especially against west coast)

Edited September 25, 2015 by hedaik

[Shahanga]

Good start to the Painters.

am enjoying.

[HeartinHobart]

Haha Freo supporters booing every Hawthorn player, fucking racists 

[marn11]

Fuck Freo supporters are gross.

[Nate]

Hawthorn into the GF again? 

zzzzzzz, boring

[thisphantomfortress]

Hawthorn into the GF again? 

zzzzzzz, boring

I'm also gunna lose my mind if i hear the word "threepeat" again