cadete Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Look we know for a fact that anybody can at least win 20.5% of his games as an A-League Manager (And I mean literally anyone) because JA proved as such with a very subpar squad in his time at MH. The fact that JVS only has won 31.9% of his games with better squads than than shoestring ones than JA had I think highlights the whole problem as it means his only 11.4% a better coach than any halfwit you could pull of the street. Edited October 30, 2014 by cadete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartFc Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 That's actually quite scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviant Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Not hard to instill the killer instinct. Guus done it with the national team in less time that jvs had been at the helm. I've said it multiple times. We need to kill teams. Our mindset is from greeny tree hugging wanker. We respect the opposition too much and don't go in for the kill. If you're privileged enough to pop on the melbcity colours and walk out into aami to represent the club, then you need to be willing to do what it takes to kill teams. When the opposition step into aami park, even for a practice session prior to the game, they need to fear the home team! If they fear that a hard game looms upon them, then half the battle is won. T - tenacity R- relentlessness A- adherence M - mentality P - proffessional L - leadership E - encourage. Trample the opposition! Leave nothing in your way except prize of success. It's either you or them. The handshake at the end of the game should only be for the cameras. Kisnorbo does this well. That's why he is captain. Edited October 31, 2014 by Deviant 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Look we know for a fact that anybody can at least win 20.5% of his games as an A-League Manager (And I mean literally anyone) because JA proved as such with a very subpar squad in his time at MH. The fact that JVS only has won 31.9% of his games with better squads than than shoestring ones than JA had I think highlights the whole problem as it means his only 11.4% a better coach than any halfwit you could pull of the street. well technically he 56.25% better but I get your point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Look we know for a fact that anybody can at least win 20.5% of his games as an A-League Manager (And I mean literally anyone) because JA proved as such with a very subpar squad in his time at MH. The fact that JVS only has won 31.9% of his games with better squads than than shoestring ones than JA had I think highlights the whole problem as it means his only 11.4% a better coach than any halfwit you could pull of the street. well technically he 56.25% better but I get your point Well if you were giving these blokes a rating out of five stars... JA/Anybody would get two stars and JVS would get only half a star more at two and half. Yet we signed him up for three years, Edited October 31, 2014 by cadete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Not hard to instill the killer instinct. Guus done it with the national team in less time that jvs had been at the helm. I've said it multiple times. We need to kill teams. Our mindset is from greeny tree hugging wanker. We respect the opposition too much and don't go in for the kill. If you're privileged enough to pop on the melbcity colours and walk out into aami to represent the club, then you need to be willing to do what it takes to kill teams. When the opposition step into aami park, even for a practice session prior to the game, they need to fear the home team! If they fear that a hard game looms upon them, then half the battle is won. T - tenacity R- relentlessness A- adherence M - mentality P - proffessional L - leadership E - encourage. Trample the opposition! Leave nothing in your way except prize of success. It's either you or them. The handshake at the end of the game should only be for the cameras. Kisnorbo does this well. That's why he is captain. Wait! You mean referring to competitive cup matches as pre season hit outs and being happy to draw because you "control" possession doesn't change how the players think? Well if that doesn't light a fire in their belly I don't know what will! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think to be fair we should judge JVS since his return. That now is 9 games without a win. Still undecided on his tenure fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I really can't see that an argument that JvS needs more time is valid any more. In his latest stint as Head Coach he's been in the position since Christmas 2014 - that's a full 10 months. He's had the full resources of CFG behind him since 23rd January 2014 - that's a full 9 months. It's true that he wasn't confirmed as Head Coach until a few weeks after that, but he's had a full six-month off-season to adjust the squad, recruit new players, integrate them into a tight unit, work out strategies and tactics, what he's going to do if a particular player is unavailable, and so on and so forth. Someone's going to come bottom of the league every year. Even the best teams lose some matches. I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is that 3 matches into the season (10% gone already) we have to be doing more than "taking positives" out of matches. And we should never have gone into this season with the squad as it is - so glaringly weak in defence. That's just bad management. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think to be fair we should judge JVS since his return. That now is 9 games without a win. Still undecided on his tenure fwiw. why does everyone keep saying that? He has a reasonably long track record of shitty results under a number of circumstances and has now gone 9 games without a win since his return. The issues with the sqaud were so obvious even someone with a basic knowledge of the squad could see it and a lot of the problems we have seen follow him around don't seem to be going anywhere. Our goal is to become a powerhouse within Asia. Stop making excuses for him! If things don't drastically improve soon he needs to leave and never come back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 It should also be noted that the only other time that the Bookmarkers had MHFC/MCFC at a short price to make the finals was in Season One... So this is not the first time JVS has entered an A League Season with a highly rated squad and then flopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marn11 Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 "Young Player X" and "Young Player Y" should be playing FFS. Come on, surely you'd rather have Mauk in the side over Murdocca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 So if he is removed then what? Whoever takes over wont be able change much until seasons end. Were pretty much stuck with whatever has been planned for this season. Right or wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 We will improve with a fit Germano (if it ever happens), Garuccio and Koren. We do still lack players with basic skills around touch, shooting, movement off the ball and the obvious specialist position players. Still a lot of work to do, the problem is that as we improve, there teams are also improving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) "Young Player X" and "Young Player Y" should be playing FFS. Come on, surely you'd rather have Mauk in the side over Murdocca. Of course the better player should be selected such as Mauk over Murdocca. It just gets a bit humorous on this forum how prior to every match when PPL start calling for the younger players on our list to be selected despite not really having any real idea on how they are performing at training... Jeremy Walker Syndrome if you will. (I remember this reached its dizzy heights when one poster even seriously called for most of the NYL side, many of whom they had never really seen play to be selected over most of the senior squad.) Edited October 31, 2014 by cadete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japiedog Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 It's going to take time to change the team culture, the anxiety of success and the fear of failure get in the way of the team playing as it can. This part is a coaching issue to address, so we'll see what JVS can do. At the end of the day though he can only facilitate the change needed, he can't make the players think differently. Which is why i believe in the motto:"Don't try to change people. Change the people" That's one way to do it, of course as a group psychotherapist my bias is towards trying to help the people change first. always knew that there was a deep probing mind there Bela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marn11 Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 "Young Player X" and "Young Player Y" should be playing FFS. Come on, surely you'd rather have Mauk in the side over Murdocca. Of course the better player should be selected such as Mauk over Murdocca. It just gets a bit humorous on this forum how prior to every match when PPL start calling for the younger players on our list to be selected despite not really having any real idea on how they are performing at training... Jeremy Walker Syndrome if you will. (I remember this reached its dizzy height when one poster even seriously called for most of the NYL side, many of whom they had never really seen play to be selected over most of the senior squad.) No doubt, much like Melbourne supporters, we have a tendency to overrate our young players. However, Mauk > Murdocca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 A far as I remember every winning run (2) we've had as a team has been when germano has been playing for us. Coincidental or genuine factor? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Hoffman too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Hoffman also in every losing run. Spooky. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interstatefan Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 bring on kick off. friday night. desperate for a win Missus won't be home till late, won't be asked 'what movie are we watching tonight' Come on City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Until I die Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Looking forward to this one tonight. But It will really piss me off if there are still so many kids in active area and also if security make me sit in my prescribed seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukesicari Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I need something to make me happy after Cleveland's loss today. Cmon City!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmelbcity Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Hoffman also in every losing run. Spooky. It is halloween Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saangers Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 usually go to games with my brother or my old man but they can't make it tonight. Thinking I might head down meet some fellow City supporters pre game. Where do you guys usually meet and when? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmelbcity Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 usually go to games with my brother or my old man but they can't make it tonight. Thinking I might head down meet some fellow City supporters pre game. Where do you guys usually meet and when? Aami Park anytime between 6 and 9:30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 usually go to games with my brother or my old man but they can't make it tonight. Thinking I might head down meet some fellow City supporters pre game. Where do you guys usually meet and when? I was hoping you were going to ask "what times the march?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 usually go to games with my brother or my old man but they can't make it tonight. Thinking I might head down meet some fellow City supporters pre game. Where do you guys usually meet and when? I was hoping you were going to ask "what times the march?" Meeting at the Portland hotel at 6..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agoalie Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 usually go to games with my brother or my old man but they can't make it tonight. Thinking I might head down meet some fellow City supporters pre game. Where do you guys usually meet and when? I was hoping you were going to ask "what times the march?" Meeting at the Portland hotel at 6..... Cheeky. Imperial hotel on near parliament station. Come down and have a few drinks with everyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) We already have a thread about JVS' job, but anyway... Look we know for a fact that anybody can at least win 20.5% of his games as an A-League Manager (And I mean literally anyone) because JA proved as such with a very subpar squad in his time at MH. The fact that JVS only has won 31.9% of his games with better squads than than shoestring ones than JA had I think highlights the whole problem as it means his only 11.4% a better coach than any halfwit you could pull of the street. The 2013/14 squad was the most expensive Heart squad ever assembled, there was nothing 'shoestring' about it (club resources were pretty shoestring though) so I don't know how it can be written off as 'a very subpar squad'. Especially as half of that squad is now under JVS being coached this season, and he's expected to get stellar performances and results out of players like Ramsay, Redmayne, Murdocca, Wielaert. Which is it, are these players good enough or 'very subpar'? IMO it was a very imbalanced squad with numerous problems, but it was a standard Heart squad, and if anything it was a more carefully built and expensive squad than previous Heart squads (JA had 2 full transfer windows to build the 2013/14 squad. He signed all of the 23+ players for that squad [several of whom were contracted beyond last season to this season]). The 2011/12 Heart squad was the cheapest/most 'shoestring', and under JVS it was made the most successful at Heart. I really can't see that an argument that JvS needs more time is valid any more. In his latest stint as Head Coach he's been in the position since Christmas 2014 - that's a full 10 months. He's had the full resources of CFG behind him since 23rd January 2014 - that's a full 9 months. It's true that he wasn't confirmed as Head Coach until a few weeks after that, but he's had a full six-month off-season to adjust the squad, recruit new players, integrate them into a tight unit, work out strategies and tactics, what he's going to do if a particular player is unavailable, and so on and so forth. Someone's going to come bottom of the league every year. Even the best teams lose some matches. I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is that 3 matches into the season (10% gone already) we have to be doing more than "taking positives" out of matches. And we should never have gone into this season with the squad as it is - so glaringly weak in defence. That's just bad management. The time question is a more fair and interesting one. I was real disappointed with the team not beating Newcastle at home, as that was a prime instance to get a result even if it meant 'winning ugly'. Otherwise Melbourne City got drawn to play the top 3 teams (all equal 1st, and many think they are the 3 best teams this season) over the first 4 rounds, and got a respectable result against Sydney and a poor result against victory (won't touch the performances, as they can and have been debated to death here). So IMO a little disappointment over the first 3 results is justified, but at the same time I do think the team will get better with time. Melbourne City had the most squad turnover in the off-season, with 11 new players joining the team (and further strengthening forthcoming, with Kennedy at least on the way). And it will take some time for the squad to settle and produce its best performances, despite the fact that the head coaching position remains unchanged. victory have done well from the off because (besides dodgy ref calls in the WSW game, and derby to a degree) they made less than half as many changes, with only 5 new players coming in (and all, thus far, not having injury issues). All up, it would have been rather fortunate if everything about the squad worked perfectly from the opening round, given that over half of the current squad are new players. I'm tipping the team to fully settle and produce optimal performances over the next 3-4 rounds, as just like with Adelaide last season a largely new team trying to play football in a very distinct way takes some time (so the coach continuity doesn't matter, if there's a large amount of change). Fully agree that the team needs more killer instinct. But it's not a simple thing to produce with a team, with top coaches like Van Gaal and even Mourinho bemoaning this season that their teams need more killer instinct, and need to 'kill games' more often (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/clubs/manchesterunited/article4239929.ece , http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/chelsea/jose-mourinho-pays-tribute-to-damien-duff-he-had-the-appetite-to-kill-matches-30672837.html). It's something football teams at the pinnacle possess, a clinical, killer instinct (e.g. Brisbane Roar under Ange after 1 year [Ange took over Oct 2009, and it wasn't until Oct 2010 that he had the team on a roll]), and it's clear that a team where half the players finished last last season, from Hoffman to Ramsay to Redmayne to Dugandzic, were not going to have a killer instinct from the opening round just because they spent 3 weeks in Manchester and had trained with Villa for 1 week. I agree with Bela Guttman that such group attitude/culture change really isn't easy, but it can happen, but only after a little time (and then I also agree with Kiro Kompiro. Some players will have bad thinking and habit ingrained into them, and some players will have to be cut lose at the end of the season). Agree that Guus did a good job with the 2006 Socceroos. But there could hardly be less in common between the 2006 Socceroos squad and the present Melbourne Heart/City squad. A final point is that I don't think JVS has to be a great coach to be a very successful coach in the A-League. I don't think Mike Mulvey of Brisbane is a great coach, but after taking over Brisbane Roar halfway through the 2012-12 season, he was able to lead Brisbane Roar to finish 1st and win the Championship last season. So we'll see how JVS and the team goes this season. Anything can happen in football. Edited October 31, 2014 by Murfy1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 We already have a thread about JVS' job, but anyway... The 2013/14 squad was the most expensive Heart squad ever assembled, there was nothing 'shoestring' about it (club resources were pretty shoestring though) so I don't know how it can be written off as 'a very subpar squad'. Especially as half of that squad is now under JVS being coached this season, and he's expected to get stellar performances and results out of players like Ramsay, Redmayne, Murdocca, Wielaert. Which is it, are these players good enough or 'very subpar'? IMO it was a very imbalanced squad with numerous problems, but it was a standard Heart squad, and if anything it was a more carefully built and expensive squad than previous Heart squads (JA had 2 full transfer windows to build the 2013/14 squad. He signed all of the 23+ players for that squad [several of whom were contracted beyond last season to this season]). The 2011/12 Heart squad was the cheapest/most 'shoestring', and under JVS it was made the most successful at Heart. The answer is they are still subpar (I never said they were not) however MCFC was able to recruit enough strong players that even when added to the subpar players from the last season that not only were people tipping MCFC to make the finals prior to the season they were tipping us to the win the league... and so far we have had a win out of three games and only Vila has prevented us from being 3 losses from 3 games. Just like how the last time we had squad that were tipped to make finals (JVS hand picked squad of season one) we also failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEARTinator Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Hoffman also in every losing run. Spooky. It is halloween http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween#cite_note-12 using "humor and ridicule to confront the power of death" Hmmmmm, using "humor and ridicule" - meaning any number of our spud players - "to confront the power of death" - meaning any team in the HAL or pre-season state team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 We already have a thread about JVS' job, but anyway... The 2013/14 squad was the most expensive Heart squad ever assembled, there was nothing 'shoestring' about it (club resources were pretty shoestring though) so I don't know how it can be written off as 'a very subpar squad'. Especially as half of that squad is now under JVS being coached this season, and he's expected to get stellar performances and results out of players like Ramsay, Redmayne, Murdocca, Wielaert. Which is it, are these players good enough or 'very subpar'? IMO it was a very imbalanced squad with numerous problems, but it was a standard Heart squad, and if anything it was a more carefully built and expensive squad than previous Heart squads (JA had 2 full transfer windows to build the 2013/14 squad. He signed all of the 23+ players for that squad [several of whom were contracted beyond last season to this season]). The 2011/12 Heart squad was the cheapest/most 'shoestring', and under JVS it was made the most successful at Heart. The answer is they are still subpar (I never said they were not) however MCFC was able to recruit enough strong players that even when added to the subpar players from the last season that not only were people tipping MCFC to make the finals prior to the season they were tipping us to the win the league... and so far we have had a win out of three games and only Vila has prevented us from being 3 losses from 3 games. Just like how the last time we had squad that were tipped to make finals (JVS hand picked squad of season one) we also failed. The new recruits who are in the starting XI are Paartalu, Mooy, Duff and Villa. Villa is about to leave, and Koren should be there but isn't. Everyone else in the starting XI was here last season. Probably explains why we are still struggling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 ... and more specifically none of our recruits have been in our weakest positions (LB,RB and goal keeper) although otherwise we have recruited a strong spine of Paartalu, Mooy, Koren and Kennedy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 http://melbournefootball.com/melbourne-city-vs-adelaide-united-preview/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewmac Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 2.70 for Adelaide is a crazy price for me , i dont gamble but if i did be worth a punt , bookies dont usually make mistakes but think they have here ! If Ramsay is included at LB makes it even more of a nonsense ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverdust Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 we better win. bringing my girlfriend to the game and she has never watched a football match. oh the horror.(at least she hates cricket) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverdust Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 im hoping a 10k crowd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Not gonna make a prediction today, too tough to call and think a wide range of very different outcomes is possible with this particular game. Hope to see something from the newly recovered group Garuccio, Germano and Williams, and hopefully the team play a bit more consistently for more of the game. Conditions are good, so I'm looking forward to an entertaining night of football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interstatefan Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Not gonna make a prediction today, too tough to call and think a wide range of very different outcomes is possible with this particular game. Hope to see something from the newly recovered group Garuccio, Germano and Williams, and hopefully the team play a bit more consistently for more of the game. Conditions are good, so I'm looking forward to an entertaining night of football. X2 Made a prediction for the game V the Jets and it didn't come close. Its Friday night, just hoping for a good game, attacking football through the middle and a increased effort for the whole 90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakz7 Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 No Ramsay!!! Germano replaces him at left back for the only change. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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