Australia at the WC

wombegongal · May 26, 2014

Atrocious surface to play on, but that was vintage Socceroos. Possibly one of their worst ever. Poor individual skills and next to no cohesion.

Yeah I thought the surface was very poor too. I also suspect that international management is different to domestic management. It requires flexibility to adapt quickly to the players you have. I'm not sure this is Ange's strong suit. Either way jury is out on him until he has had them a few years with the chance to regenerate.

A few players had decent nights but we looked a mess at the back (centrally) such a shame Good, Williams and Sainsbury are injured I think they all represent a decent investment for the future of the national team. Mulligan and Holland really looked out of touch today. I'm not so concerned here with Mile and Marco to come in. The only concern with Bresciano is his lack of pace. I still think we can put up a much better showing than that come the world cup.

People might be selling South Africa short too. After the first 20mins (in which they were shit) they played fairly well i thought. They setup well and countered effectively. I'd say a draw isn't a bad result in terms of making sure this team has an under dog tag. Hopefully the old backs to the wall mentality comes out and we give a decent account come Brasil.

yelawolf · May 26, 2014

not sure what the fuss is all about.. engerland r gonna win da world cup anyway

Nate · May 27, 2014

Brillante, Sarota and Good confirmed to be the 3 not travelling to Brazil.

carlings · May 27, 2014

#BringInHoff

mus-28 · May 27, 2014

Sarota very stiff to get cut. Tidy simple passing, hard working midfielder like him would be far more valuable for us than show pinies like Rogic, Troisi, Vidosic, etc.

Tesla · May 27, 2014

Dunno why we still have 4 keepers in the squad?

Baresi · May 27, 2014

Dunno why we still have 4 keepers in the squad?

The squad will be only 23, with 4 players going as back-ups to cover for injuries.

theresonlyonebzamora · May 27, 2014

Sarota very stiff to get cut. Tidy simple passing, hard working midfielder like him would be far more valuable for us than show pinies like Rogic, Troisi, Vidosic, etc.

still recovering from a knee re-con apparently.

mus-28 · May 27, 2014

I thought he'd been back in the Utrecht first XI for a few months?

Tesla · May 27, 2014

Dunno why we still have 4 keepers in the squad?

The squad will be only 23, with 4 players going as back-ups to cover for injuries.

Fully aware how the squad works, still no reason to have 4 keepers at this stage, would rather another outfield player was kept on and given a longer chance, that way a more informed decision can be made about the final squad. In the unlikely even one of the 3 keepers was injured before the first game (even after your 23 man squad is selected, you can make an injury replacement before the first game, and that player doesn't need to be in the provisional 30 man squad, so there wasn't even much point having 4 goalkeepers in the 30 man squad let alone this 27 man squad that's flying over)

Baresi · May 27, 2014

Dunno why we still have 4 keepers in the squad?

The squad will be only 23, with 4 players going as back-ups to cover for injuries.

Fully aware how the squad works, still no reason to have 4 keepers at this stage, would rather another outfield player was kept on and given a longer chance, that way a more informed decision can be made about the final squad. In the unlikely even one of the 3 keepers was injured before the first game (even after your 23 man squad is selected, you can make an injury replacement before the first game, and that player doesn't need to be in the provisional 30 man squad, so there wasn't even much point having 4 goalkeepers in the 30 man squad let alone this 27 man squad that's flying over)

Fair point.

theresonlyonebzamora · May 27, 2014

I thought he'd been back in the Utrecht first XI for a few months?

Dunno mate, could be. Just going on what ange said that he thinks he's not quite ready for it fitness wise

xXJawsaXx · May 27, 2014

Watching Japan vs Cyprus and if we had've done things right in relation to youth development we'd be at Japan's level.

Tommykins · May 27, 2014

Right. It's not like Japan's league has been in its current incarnation for 10 more years then ours.

xXJawsaXx · May 27, 2014

Right. It's not like Japan's league has been in its current incarnation for 10 more years then ours.

I wasn't really talking about the domestic league, more about preparing the next generation of socceroos for international football.

HEARTinator · May 27, 2014

Dunno why we still have 4 keepers in the squad?

Coz we're gonna need all 4 of them between the uprights when we play against Dutchland, TikiTaka and red hot Chile peppers

Tommykins · May 27, 2014

But youth development is driven by the strength of the local league, no? 11 players from the J-League will line up in this years world cup squad. 19 in the last one.

xXJawsaXx · May 27, 2014

But youth development is driven by the strength of the local league, no? 11 players from the J-League will line up in this years world cup squad. 19 in the last one.

It certainly helps, yes, but Croatia for example only has 5 players from it's local league in its squad, and our 'Golden Generation' came about during the NSL era. I am not arguing that a strong domestic league is meaningless, but that we really screwed up in raising a second 'Golden Generation' because of past coaches' reluctance to utilise younger players.

hedaik · May 27, 2014

But youth development is driven by the strength of the local league, no? 11 players from the J-League will line up in this years world cup squad. 19 in the last one.

It certainly helps, yes, but Croatia for example only has 5 players from it's local league in its squad, and our 'Golden Generation' came about during the NSL era. I am not arguing that a strong domestic league is meaningless, but that we really screwed up in raising a second 'Golden Generation' because of past coaches' reluctance to utilise younger players.

Or possibly the players just aren't good enough. Development only gets you so far, you cant polish a turd.

xXJawsaXx · May 28, 2014

But youth development is driven by the strength of the local league, no? 11 players from the J-League will line up in this years world cup squad. 19 in the last one.

It certainly helps, yes, but Croatia for example only has 5 players from it's local league in its squad, and our 'Golden Generation' came about during the NSL era. I am not arguing that a strong domestic league is meaningless, but that we really screwed up in raising a second 'Golden Generation' because of past coaches' reluctance to utilise younger players.

Or possibly the players just aren't good enough. Development only gets you so far, you cant polish a turd.

Aha yeah, that could be true as well I suppose.

Kiro Kompiro · May 28, 2014

But youth development is driven by the strength of the local league, no? 11 players from the J-League will line up in this years world cup squad. 19 in the last one.

It certainly helps, yes, but Croatia for example only has 5 players from it's local league in its squad, and our 'Golden Generation' came about during the NSL era. I am not arguing that a strong domestic league is meaningless, but that we really screwed up in raising a second 'Golden Generation' because of past coaches' reluctance to utilise younger players.

Thats a common fallacy.

The root cause is the abject failure of the youth NT to produce the players that right now should be forming the bulk of the NT squad. That youth team was the 2008 Olympic squad.

Of that squad of 23, only Spiranovic (who has made a career out of a step over and shot in that tournament), Troisi and Milligan survive in the current NT. The rest are in the A-league, de-listed or lower Euro leagues.

Argentina who was in the same group have these players in the current WC squad from that tournament:

Romero,Garay, Zabaleta, Gago, Mascherano, Benega, Di Maria, Sosa, Aguero, Messi, Levezzi.

The people involved in selecting the players for our squad should be blind-folded and put in front of a firing squad. How can they have been the best players in the country when 6 years later 20 out of the 23 are nowhere near international quality.

Without that natural progression, how is any NT coach supposed to regenerate the squad with youth? Verbeek played over 100 players FFS! These players never displaced the older player because they were not good enough.

Dylan · May 29, 2014

Will have the worst goal difference in history at this cup

Tommykins · May 29, 2014

-16 South Korea 1954.

But that was in two matches, so we'd have to beat -24 for the record to be truly ours.

cadete · May 29, 2014

But youth development is driven by the strength of the local league, no? 11 players from the J-League will line up in this years world cup squad. 19 in the last one.

It certainly helps, yes, but Croatia for example only has 5 players from it's local league in its squad, and our 'Golden Generation' came about during the NSL era. I am not arguing that a strong domestic league is meaningless, but that we really screwed up in raising a second 'Golden Generation' because of past coaches' reluctance to utilise younger players.

Thats a common fallacy.

The root cause is the abject failure of the youth NT to produce the players that right now should be forming the bulk of the NT squad. That youth team was the 2008 Olympic squad.

Of that squad of 23, only Spiranovic (who has made a career out of a step over and shot in that tournament), Troisi and Milligan survive in the current NT. The rest are in the A-league, de-listed or lower Euro leagues.

Argentina who was in the same group have these players in the current WC squad from that tournament:

Romero,Garay, Zabaleta, Gago, Mascherano, Benega, Di Maria, Sosa, Aguero, Messi, Levezzi.

The people involved in selecting the players for our squad should be blind-folded and put in front of a firing squad. How can they have been the best players in the country when 6 years later 20 out of the 23 are nowhere near international quality.

Without that natural progression, how is any NT coach supposed to regenerate the squad with youth? Verbeek played over 100 players FFS! These players never displaced the older player because they were not good enough.

This.

HEARTinator · June 2, 2014

But youth development is driven by the strength of the local league, no? 11 players from the J-League will line up in this years world cup squad. 19 in the last one.

It certainly helps, yes, but Croatia for example only has 5 players from it's local league in its squad, and our 'Golden Generation' came about during the NSL era. I am not arguing that a strong domestic league is meaningless, but that we really screwed up in raising a second 'Golden Generation' because of past coaches' reluctance to utilise younger players.

Thats a common fallacy.

The root cause is the abject failure of the youth NT to produce the players that right now should be forming the bulk of the NT squad. That youth team was the 2008 Olympic squad.

Of that squad of 23, only Spiranovic (who has made a career out of a step over and shot in that tournament), Troisi and Milligan survive in the current NT. The rest are in the A-league, de-listed or lower Euro leagues.

Argentina who was in the same group have these players in the current WC squad from that tournament:

Romero,Garay, Zabaleta, Gago, Mascherano, Benega, Di Maria, Sosa, Aguero, Messi, Levezzi.

The people involved in selecting the players for our squad should be blind-folded and put in front of a firing squad. How can they have been the best players in the country when 6 years later 20 out of the 23 are nowhere near international quality.

Without that natural progression, how is any NT coach supposed to regenerate the squad with youth? Verbeek played over 100 players FFS! These players never displaced the older player because they were not good enough.

I don't have a quarel with Verbeek. He picked the best players that were available to get us to a WC. That was his mandate and he achieved that. The issue of new players coming through is vexed. Our so called Golden Generation may be part luck ( a collection of good players arriving at the same time) and part youth development through the NSL teams. The disfunction that the NSL fell into towards the end may explain some of our current problems. However this was the 2008 Olympic team team that Arnold selected:

Mark Bridge, David Carney, Billy Celeski, Adam Federici, Neil Kilkenny, Adrian Leijer , Trent McClenahan :huh: , Mark Milligan, Stuart Musialik, Jade North :rolleyes: , Nikita Rukavytsya, Kristian Sarkies, Matthew Spiranovic, Archie Thompson, Nikolai Topor-Stanley, James Troisi, Tando Velaphi :lol: , Ruben Zadkovich :droy:

Edited June 2, 2014 by HEARTinator

Dylan · June 2, 2014

flogich

Shahanga · June 3, 2014

I don't have a quarel with Verbeek. He picked the best players that were available to get us to a WC. That was his mandate and he achieved that. The issue of new players coming through is vexed. Our so called Golden Generation may be part luck ( a collection of good players arriving at the same time) and part youth development through the NSL teams. The disfunction that the NSL fell into towards the end may explain some of our current problems. However this was the 2008 Olympic team team that Arnold selected:

Mark Bridge, David Carney, Billy Celeski, Adam Federici, Neil Kilkenny, Adrian Leijer , Trent McClenahan , Mark Milligan, Stuart Musialik, Jade North , Nikita Rukavytsya, Kristian Sarkies, Matthew Spiranovic, Archie Thompson, Nikolai Topor-Stanley, James Troisi, Tando Velaphi , Ruben Zadkovich

I guess the legitimate question is who should have been picked instead (as proven by the passage of time, not just opinion), that is the real test of Arnold's team - can't blame him for picking "duds" if thats all we had.

Names of the missing that come to mind to me:

Mile Jedinak

Robbie Kruse

anyone else?

Edited June 3, 2014 by Shahanga

Nate · June 3, 2014

Kennedy, Rogic, Birighitti and Wilkshire cut from the 27-man squad.

Fuck meeeeeeeee, big calls.

perthheart · June 3, 2014

Cutting Kennedy and Wilkshire cuts one of our only alternatives to goal and the only international experience in our defence. Ange has lost the plot.

Alexxandro · June 3, 2014

Kennedy and Rogic injured. Birighitti just one too many goal keepers. So the only big call is Wilkshire.

Nate · June 3, 2014

Still massive losses regardless, hopefully we'll see Taggart start.

HEARTinator · June 3, 2014

Squad of 23

Goalkeepers:

Mat Ryan (Club Brugge), Mitchell Langerak (Borussia Dortmund), Eugene Galekovic (Adelaide United)

Defenders:

Ivan Franjic (Brisbane Roar), Jason Davidson (Heracles Almelo), Matthew Spiranovic (Western Sydney Wanderers), Bailey Wright (Preston North End), Alex Wilkinson (Jeonbuk Motors), Ryan McGowan (Shandong Luneng)

Midfielders:

Mile Jedinak (Crystal Palace), Mark Milligan (Melbourne Victory), James Holland (Austria Vienna), Massimo Luongo (Swindon Town), Oliver Bozanic (Luzern), Mark Bresciano (Al-Gharafa), Matt McKay (Brisbane Roar)

Forwards:

Tim Cahill (New York Red Bulls), Dario Vidosic (Sion), Tommy Oar (FC Utrecht), James Troisi (Melbourne Victory), Ben Halloran (Fortuna Dusseldorf), Adam Taggart (Newcastle Jets), Mathew Leckie (FSV Frankfurt)

Out: Mark Birighitti, Tom Rogic, Josh Kennedy and Luke Wilkshire.

mus-28 · June 3, 2014

Geez, very limited in defensive numbers. Very suprised both Vidosic & Troisi made the cut and Wilkshire was ommitted. Guess we'll be blessed with McKay being the 2nd choice at LB, whilst Shane Lowry didn't even get a look in as a versatile defender. Guessing it'll be:

Ryan

Franjic - Spiranovic - McGowan - Davidson

Milligan - Jedinak

Leckie - Troisi - Oar

Cahill

Would like to see Halloran and Leckie on the wings with Oar as the #10.

Nate · June 4, 2014

Agree that Halloran and Leckie should be our starting wingers, they've got so much pace and if we're to have any chance of scoring on a counter then it'll be through the runs of either of these two.

I'd also love to see Wright partner with Spiranovic in the centre of defence as he looks like a young guy brimming with bite and potential whereas McGowan looked fucking hopeless the other night.

Hopefully Ange makes the right calls because even if we don't win any of our games, a performance to be proud of is the minimum requirement.

AlexDaGroza · June 4, 2014

But youth development is driven by the strength of the local league, no? 11 players from the J-League will line up in this years world cup squad. 19 in the last one.

It certainly helps, yes, but Croatia for example only has 5 players from it's local league in its squad, and our 'Golden Generation' came about during the NSL era. I am not arguing that a strong domestic league is meaningless, but that we really screwed up in raising a second 'Golden Generation' because of past coaches' reluctance to utilise younger players.

Thats a common fallacy.

The root cause is the abject failure of the youth NT to produce the players that right now should be forming the bulk of the NT squad. That youth team was the 2008 Olympic squad.

Of that squad of 23, only Spiranovic (who has made a career out of a step over and shot in that tournament), Troisi and Milligan survive in the current NT. The rest are in the A-league, de-listed or lower Euro leagues.

Argentina who was in the same group have these players in the current WC squad from that tournament:

Romero,Garay, Zabaleta, Gago, Mascherano, Benega, Di Maria, Sosa, Aguero, Messi, Levezzi.

The people involved in selecting the players for our squad should be blind-folded and put in front of a firing squad. How can they have been the best players in the country when 6 years later 20 out of the 23 are nowhere near international quality.

Without that natural progression, how is any NT coach supposed to regenerate the squad with youth? Verbeek played over 100 players FFS! These players never displaced the older player because they were not good enough.

LMAO Tando Velaphi made that olympics squad

Tesla · June 4, 2014

But youth development is driven by the strength of the local league, no? 11 players from the J-League will line up in this years world cup squad. 19 in the last one.

It certainly helps, yes, but Croatia for example only has 5 players from it's local league in its squad, and our 'Golden Generation' came about during the NSL era. I am not arguing that a strong domestic league is meaningless, but that we really screwed up in raising a second 'Golden Generation' because of past coaches' reluctance to utilise younger players.

Thats a common fallacy.

The root cause is the abject failure of the youth NT to produce the players that right now should be forming the bulk of the NT squad. That youth team was the 2008 Olympic squad.

Of that squad of 23, only Spiranovic (who has made a career out of a step over and shot in that tournament), Troisi and Milligan survive in the current NT. The rest are in the A-league, de-listed or lower Euro leagues.

Argentina who was in the same group have these players in the current WC squad from that tournament:

Romero,Garay, Zabaleta, Gago, Mascherano, Benega, Di Maria, Sosa, Aguero, Messi, Levezzi.

The people involved in selecting the players for our squad should be blind-folded and put in front of a firing squad. How can they have been the best players in the country when 6 years later 20 out of the 23 are nowhere near international quality.

Without that natural progression, how is any NT coach supposed to regenerate the squad with youth? Verbeek played over 100 players FFS! These players never displaced the older player because they were not good enough.

I'm not sure what the normal amount of players to progress from the u23 to the senior team is, but off the top of my head I'd say the Argentina situation is not usual.

From an u20 WC you usually see only maybe 2 players on average for each nation make it to a senior WC squad. Obviously at u23 level it will be a higher number on average, but I doubt 11 is normal. Again, that's off the top of my head, I haven't looked into it so I could be wrong.

Players progress at different rates, so the players at the youth tournaments could very well be the best players at their age, just there career takes different turns from there on. Maybe not playing, or they get an injury, etc., while another player is a late bloomer.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Tesla

MaliMate · June 4, 2014

Talent ID in this country is horrendous. From the grass roots level to A-League it's appalling.

And to think how much some of these thieves (scouts) are getting paid by the FFA.

malloy · June 4, 2014

But youth development is driven by the strength of the local league, no? 11 players from the J-League will line up in this years world cup squad. 19 in the last one.

It certainly helps, yes, but Croatia for example only has 5 players from it's local league in its squad, and our 'Golden Generation' came about during the NSL era. I am not arguing that a strong domestic league is meaningless, but that we really screwed up in raising a second 'Golden Generation' because of past coaches' reluctance to utilise younger players. Thats a common fallacy.

The root cause is the abject failure of the youth NT to produce the players that right now should be forming the bulk of the NT squad. That youth team was the 2008 Olympic squad.

Of that squad of 23, only Spiranovic (who has made a career out of a step over and shot in that tournament), Troisi and Milligan survive in the current NT. The rest are in the A-league, de-listed or lower Euro leagues.

Argentina who was in the same group have these players in the current WC squad from that tournament:

Romero,Garay, Zabaleta, Gago, Mascherano, Benega, Di Maria, Sosa, Aguero, Messi, Levezzi.

The people involved in selecting the players for our squad should be blind-folded and put in front of a firing squad. How can they have been the best players in the country when 6 years later 20 out of the 23 are nowhere near international quality.

Without that natural progression, how is any NT coach supposed to regenerate the squad with youth? Verbeek played over 100 players FFS! These players never displaced the older player because they were not good enough.I'm not sure what the normal amount of players to progress from the u23 to the senior team is, but off the top of my head I'd say the Argentina situation is not usual.

From an u20 WC you usually see only maybe 2 players on average for each nation make it to a senior WC squad. Obviously at u23 level it will be a higher number on average, but I doubt 11 is normal. Again, that's off the top of my head, I haven't looked into it so I could be wrong.

Players progress at different rates, so the players at the youth tournaments could very well be the best players at their age, just there career takes different turns from there on. Maybe not playing, or they get an injury, etc., while another player is a late bloomer.

Agree. Majority of the u17 + u23 squads tend to be early peakers, who don't get any better.

sheepdog · June 4, 2014