Building the best team in Asia

[Parrot]

Our two Marquees have to be top notch players, plus we need that bit of luck for them to remain pretty much injury free. 

 

Our Australian Marquee has to be a top starting eleven Socceroo who is not "returning home" to wind down his career like a Bresciano. 

For example, if Tom Rogic dominates the A League during his loan spell with Victory, then we are now in a position to offer him seriously big money at

least on a par with what he would get overseas plus also pay Celtic a transfer fee.

 

 

[DukeVader]

 

 

I am often wrong but isn't there an Asian marquee spot??

Yeah there is too! I think most of us have forgotten about that because I can't think of anyone that's used it yet.

 

Dukes, are you absolutely sure on that? Can you point to a reference? I was under the same impression (that there could be a sixth visa player, provided he was from an AFC country other than Australia, but that this would still have to be inside the numbers cap of 23 players), but all I can find is that it was proposed by the PFA as long ago as 2009 and discussed several times since. But I can't find it stated in writing.

 

Sorry not 100% sure just had a quick look myself and all it has is the Aussie Marquee, International marquee and the Under 23 marquee..

 

Would still like to know the news on how many loan players we can have if they all fit the foreign spots paid by MCFC.

Not sure if you have seen this interview with David Gallop or not but it seems he could change the rules about loan players etc whenever he wants if the other clubs complain e.g WSW, Victory

 

http://video.news.com.au/v/185584/David-Gallop-buoyant-after-Man-City-purchase-of-Heart

[MHFC-FAN]

Marquee player

The league allows each team to have one "marquee" player whose salary is exempt from the salary cap. Notable marquee players in the A-League have included Dwight Yorke and Alessandro Del Piero, who signed for Sydney FC, on a two-year four million dollar deal, beginning in the 2012–13 season. Since the 2008–09 season, A-League clubs have been permitted a Junior Marquee player; one that is under the age of 23. The Junior Marquee can be paid up to A$150,000 above the salary cap. On 19 April 2010, the A-League announced that, in addition to the marquee and junior marquee, clubs would be allowed an Australian marquee player from the 2010–11 season.^[52] Current Marquee players in the A-League include:

 

This is from wiki so not sure how correct facts are...

[Rellum]

There is no Asian Marquee.

 

Thinking of this over night while I was watching my last progress bar finish up. Will any of the current overseas players be with us next season?

 

Our current players

Wielaert

Engelaar

Gerhardt

Mifsud

Germano

 

Engelaar is the most likely, depending on how he gets his mobility back. Wielaert and Gerhardt are maybes. Mifsud is surely gone. Germano is most likely gone as well. There is a good chance that all of them will be paid out and 5 new players coming in, but I can't see that happening.

[alexli]

There is no Asian Marquee.

 

Thinking of this over night while I was watching my last progress bar finish up. Will any of the current overseas players be with us next season?

 

Our current players

Wielaert

Engelaar

Gerhardt

Mifsud

Germano

 

Engelaar is the most likely, depending on how he gets his mobility back. Wielaert and Gerhardt are maybes. Mifsud is surely gone. Germano is most likely gone as well. There is a good chance that all of them will be paid out and 5 new players coming in, but I can't see that happening.

Hope FFA could give one, will boost crowd for every club

Don't think any visa player will play for us next season

[InMyHeart]

IF many city buy another club in asia and both qualify for ACL only one team can compete in it

[jw1739]

There is no Asian Marquee.

 

Thinking of this over night while I was watching my last progress bar finish up. Will any of the current overseas players be with us next season?

 

Our current players

Wielaert

Engelaar

Gerhardt

Mifsud

Germano

 

Engelaar is the most likely, depending on how he gets his mobility back. Wielaert and Gerhardt are maybes. Mifsud is surely gone. Germano is most likely gone as well. There is a good chance that all of them will be paid out and 5 new players coming in, but I can't see that happening.

AFAIK all come out of contract at the conclusion of this season. IMO only Engelaar is a possible. The others will be released.

[thedukeofhearts]

 

 

I am often wrong but isn't there an Asian marquee spot??

Yeah there is too! I think most of us have forgotten about that because I can't think of anyone that's used it yet.

 

Dukes, are you absolutely sure on that? Can you point to a reference? I was under the same impression (that there could be a sixth visa player, provided he was from an AFC country other than Australia, but that this would still have to be inside the numbers cap of 23 players), but all I can find is that it was proposed by the PFA as long ago as 2009 and discussed several times since. But I can't find it stated in writing.

 

oh I don;t know how it works !! just that there's a thing called Asian Marquee talked about from what I remember hahaha I don't follow this stuff to closely though.

[Luke]

No when you play in the acl you're only allowed 3 visa players plus one Asian player 

 

I.e if we played in it tomorrow we'd have to drop 2 of our foreigners 

[xXJawsaXx]

No when you play in the acl you're only allowed 3 visa players plus one Asian player 

 

I.e if we played in it tomorrow we'd have to drop 2 of our foreigners 

Ah yeah, that's right, forgot about that. This is why it might be worth the FFA either implementing an Asian marquee spot or having a similar rule that Japan and Korea have with 4 foreign players + 1 Asian spot. (The J-League only allows 4 foreigners, but the idea is the same )

Edited January 26, 2014 by xXJawsaXx

[lonestay]

Sorry did I see the words Dwight Yorke and marquee in the same sentence a few posts back ? Just choking on my cornflakes in the UK !!!

To explain old Dwight is a bit of a laughing stock among city fans he has this ability to pop up as a commentator on UK telly and just talk shit !!

[Koerner4]

Sorry did I see the words Dwight Yorke and marquee in the same sentence a few posts back ? Just choking on my cornflakes in the UK !!!

To explain old Dwight is a bit of a laughing stock among city fans he has this ability to pop up as a commentator on UK telly and just talk shit !!

Yeah well when he was over here for the Manchester United v A-League all stars game in Sydney last year, he said Sydney was one of his favourite countries...

[Red or Dead]

Also I don't think it's an "Australian" Marquee anymore, I think they refer to it as the "Domestic" Marquee to include New Zealand players, which is how Perth can have Gallas AND Smeltz ;-)

[Tommykins]

Well that and the fact that Smeltz is an Australian.

[Red or Dead]

Well that and the fact that Smeltz is an Australian.

Oh, is that why he plays for the New Zealand National Team?

[Tommykins]

He's got New Zealand citizenship, but he only got it when he was mid twenties.

[Red or Dead]

Well there you go, born to New Zealand parents in Germany! Did not even know.

 

Smeltz was born in Göppingen, West Germany to New Zealand parents. Six months later he moved to New Zealand, where we would live until he was six. In November 1987, Smeltz moved to the Gold Coast in Queensland, Australia, where he pursued a career in football through the Queensland Academy of Sport and was brought up for the remainder of his adolescent years while holding a New Zealand visa. Smeltz was granted dual-citizenship at the age of 23, becoming a dual-citizen of New Zealand and Australia.

He's more Kiwi than Aussie 

[oeokosko]

Thinking of CFG as any other global business where resources are moved around the world to maximise business performance, staff development and cultural reinforcement, there could be the possibility of having a City player as marquee as well as taking on youngsters for development.

[M13]

Having been trying to understand the business model since 2008 (The MCFC takeover) we have come to just a few conclusions

1) It´s very long term..
2) It´s based on improving quality in all things, the logic being that top quality is always worth a premium thus adding value to the asset.
 

[Tbitm]

Guangzhou Evergrande were able to become the best in Asia rather easily while still having 7 of their starting 11 being Chinese, which are not particularly known for being very good football players.

Sure they did spend tonnes on their 3+1 internationals and probably even more on getting Lippi, but surely with the right marquee players and internationals, our squad should be strong enough able to run rings around the 4 man teams of china and the best of Japan and Korea.

I'm fucking excited, never did I think it was possible but with ambitious owners with bottomless pockets, I think we can be the best team in Asia.

all 7 players are in national team and Zheng Zhi is the player of the year in asiaFair enough, but half of wellingtons team is the NZ national team which are about the same quality as China IMO, or better. So I don't think because they are national team players is too impressive, they won through their marquee internationals, and Zhi who I'll admit is a good player too. Edited January 26, 2014 by Tbitm

[alexli]

 

 

Guangzhou Evergrande were able to become the best in Asia rather easily while still having 7 of their starting 11 being Chinese, which are not particularly known for being very good football players.

Sure they did spend tonnes on their 3+1 internationals and probably even more on getting Lippi, but surely with the right marquee players and internationals, our squad should be strong enough able to run rings around the 4 man teams of china and the best of Japan and Korea.

I'm fucking excited, never did I think it was possible but with ambitious owners with bottomless pockets, I think we can be the best team in Asia.

all 7 players are in national team and Zheng Zhi is the player of the year in asia Fair enough, but half of wellingtons team is the NZ national team which are about the same quality as China IMO, or better. So I don't think because they are national team players is too impressive, they won through their marquee internationals, and Zhi who I'll admit is a good player too.

 

Correct.IMO the most important factor they won ACL is they having Marcello Lippi as Manager

[Tommykins]

While Lippi was no doubt an important factor, I can't really go past the fact that all bar 3 (including bench players) of their Chinese contingent that played in the ACL were current Chinese internationals, combined with Dario Conca, a Korean international and two class Brazillians in Elkson and Muriqui

[alexli]

While Lippi was no doubt an important factor, I can't really go past the fact that all bar 3 (including bench players) of their Chinese contingent that played in the ACL were current Chinese internationals, combined with Dario Conca, a Korean international and two class Brazillians in Elkson and Muriqui

I hate salary cap so much now

[CityHeart]

where we go from here is very interesting, both as a club and as a league.

 

Does Man City have plans to lobby to get the A-league cap removed over time? A salary cap is a no-no in global football. Interesting that they purchased us, knowing there is a cap and if their plans are Asian exposure it is very hard, nearly impossible to expect a salary-cap restricted league to compete against teams not restricted to the same cap?

[jw1739]

where we go from here is very interesting, both as a club and as a league.

 

Does Man City have plans to lobby to get the A-league cap removed over time? A salary cap is a no-no in global football. Interesting that they purchased us, knowing there is a cap and if their plans are Asian exposure it is very hard, nearly impossible to expect a salary-cap restricted league to compete against teams not restricted to the same cap?

City need to talk to Sydney FC's accountants. I'm blowed if I can see how they can accommodate all their players into any sort of cap/marquee system.

[Falastur]

where we go from here is very interesting, both as a club and as a league.

 

Does Man City have plans to lobby to get the A-league cap removed over time? A salary cap is a no-no in global football. Interesting that they purchased us, knowing there is a cap and if their plans are Asian exposure it is very hard, nearly impossible to expect a salary-cap restricted league to compete against teams not restricted to the same cap?

 

Interesting question. Mansour and his guys aren't the type to rock the boat - I don't think they will be lobbying the league for rule changes. Apart from anything, they only stand to suffer from the backlash if that happens; we get enough abuse back in England for buying our way to success without opening ourselves up to accusations that we are being petulant because other leagues won't let us walk all over them too.

 

That said, if there ever comes a time when the rules are questioned, you can expect the board to throw their weight behind every move to open the league up to further expenditure, I'm pretty sure.

 

In some ways our biggest problem may actually be keeping the other teams happy. If they think we want the salary cap removed because we want to be able to flood the league with expensive signings then you may find the other nine clubs suddenly become very strong fans of not increasing the salary cap at all. Far better to play it softly-softly.

[Red or Dead]

The salary cap's MIN and MAX needs to be raised to make the A-League more competitive in Asia I reckon;

 

MAX from $2.5m to $5m

MIN from $1.5m (ish?) to $2.5m

 

With the new TV rights' money the FFA are already covering the current maximum of $2.5m (I'm rounding up) so they should make it the minimum that clubs can spend, not the maximum! Give the clubs some freedom to get creative with their signings and spending. If a club doesn't want to spend anymore than what the FFA are handing out, then that's their prerogative.

 

For the record, this was my view before Heart was bought out by our handsome/ly rich Sheikh 

[thedukeofhearts]

 

where we go from here is very interesting, both as a club and as a league.

 

Does Man City have plans to lobby to get the A-league cap removed over time? A salary cap is a no-no in global football. Interesting that they purchased us, knowing there is a cap and if their plans are Asian exposure it is very hard, nearly impossible to expect a salary-cap restricted league to compete against teams not restricted to the same cap?

 

Interesting question. Mansour and his guys aren't the type to rock the boat - I don't think they will be lobbying the league for rule changes. Apart from anything, they only stand to suffer from the backlash if that happens; we get enough abuse back in England for buying our way to success without opening ourselves up to accusations that we are being petulant because other leagues won't let us walk all over them too.

 

That said, if there ever comes a time when the rules are questioned, you can expect the board to throw their weight behind every move to open the league up to further expenditure, I'm pretty sure.

 

In some ways our biggest problem may actually be keeping the other teams happy. If they think we want the salary cap removed because we want to be able to flood the league with expensive signings then you may find the other nine clubs suddenly become very strong fans of not increasing the salary cap at all. Far better to play it softly-softly.

 

Plus most the football political power is in NSW, just like the cricket. That's the impression I get anyway. 

[Rellum]

The salary cap's MIN and MAX needs to be raised to make the A-League more competitive in Asia I reckon;

 

MAX from $2.5m to $5m

MIN from $1.5m (ish?) to $2.5m

 

With the new TV rights' money the FFA are already covering the current maximum of $2.5m (I'm rounding up) so they should make it the minimum that clubs can spend, not the maximum! Give the clubs some freedom to get creative with their signings and spending. If a club doesn't want to spend anymore than what the FFA are handing out, then that's their prerogative.

 

For the record, this was my view before Heart was bought out by our handsome/ly rich Sheikh 

Would you have said that last week? 

[Embee]

I don't think a drastic change of the cap is suitable at the moment.

 

The last thing we should really want to see is a league where us, Sydney and maybe one or two other sides are the only teams who can afford to fully utilize their salary cap while the other teams begin to flounder, become irrelevant and potentially fold. The A-League as it currently stands cannot support a side that is entirely uncompetitive for a long period of time and that's exactly what we'd have if the cap lifted in a dramatic fashion. Particular teams who couldn't afford to spend the cap would likely miss finals for long stretches and would start to lose their fan base which would ultimately lead to insolvency. 

 

It should certainly raise slowly over time (to adjust for inflation, teams/the league becoming financially stronger etc.) but that should be a nominal increase and not a sudden drastic change.

 

If we want to enjoy the success we can gain with these new found riches we need a competition to enjoy them in.

Edited January 27, 2014 by King Malta

[thedukeofhearts]

Imagine teams like CCM trying to compete. They have enough trouble already with wages and all there young plays being poached. It's amazing what they have been able to achieve as it is.

[tigerou812]

I don't mind the cap. Makes a more even league. It's coaching and facilities and recruiting the right players that will make us good. At the moment we have recruited players and tried to fit them into positions that they can't play and our coaching and background staff haven't been all that good.

[Red or Dead]

 

The salary cap's MIN and MAX needs to be raised to make the A-League more competitive in Asia I reckon;

 

MAX from $2.5m to $5m

MIN from $1.5m (ish?) to $2.5m

 

With the new TV rights' money the FFA are already covering the current maximum of $2.5m (I'm rounding up) so they should make it the minimum that clubs can spend, not the maximum! Give the clubs some freedom to get creative with their signings and spending. If a club doesn't want to spend anymore than what the FFA are handing out, then that's their prerogative.

 

For the record, this was my view before Heart was bought out by our handsome/ly rich Sheikh 

Would you have said that last week? 

 

Yes. See bold text above :-P

[Tommykins]

Doubling the cap in the space of a year would be an extremely bad move. Most clubs struggle already.

[Viva el City]

I don't mind the cap. Makes a more even league. It's coaching and facilities and recruiting the right players that will make us good. At the moment we have recruited players and tried to fit them into positions that they can't play and our coaching and background staff haven't been all that good.

That's how I see it as well - it's possible to get an advantage under a cap but you have to build towards it from within rather than expecting to import instant success.

[Rellum]

 

 

The salary cap's MIN and MAX needs to be raised to make the A-League more competitive in Asia I reckon;

 

MAX from $2.5m to $5m

MIN from $1.5m (ish?) to $2.5m

 

With the new TV rights' money the FFA are already covering the current maximum of $2.5m (I'm rounding up) so they should make it the minimum that clubs can spend, not the maximum! Give the clubs some freedom to get creative with their signings and spending. If a club doesn't want to spend anymore than what the FFA are handing out, then that's their prerogative.

 

For the record, this was my view before Heart was bought out by our handsome/ly rich Sheikh 

Would you have said that last week? 

 

Yes. See bold text above :-P

 

Fair enough

[Tbitm]

Doubling the cap in the space of a year would be an extremely bad move. Most clubs struggle already.

True, It should increase to probably 3m though. Since the new TV deal the cap hasn't been raised at all while all clubs are getting over 1M more each off it. So to not raise it to improve standards would be against the point of having a capped league when it growing. That and the league is set to make a net profit this season.

I can see the Mariners owner having another whinge if that were to happen though.

[InMyHeart]

I repeat same owners can only have 1 club enter the ACL.. if they were to buy in china we'd be fucked in ACL

[Falastur]

I repeat same owners can only have 1 club enter the ACL.. if they were to buy in china we'd be fucked in ACL

 

Or the Chinese club would.

[lonestay]

I guess with a salary cap in place and teams working to that, it does mean that the league stands a chance of not losing any clubs to bankruptcy and so keeping everything fairish. If Sheik Mansour comes in and drives all the other  teams out of existence due to massive spending then there is no league and no competition so a waste of his resources . I would imagine that part of the "project" is to make the A league much more of a bigger league  and make it attractive to people outside of Australia, thus everybody benefits the clubs, the owners, the fans  and of course even the governing body . without a shadow of a doubt ADUG are the biggest owners in Australian soccer if not Australian sport, the governing body of the A league are naturally  going to want to get on good terms with ADUG/Heart as they will want to make sure that there bread is buttered on the right side!