SF33 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I think a major increase of the salary cap would be a pretty shortsighted (and selfish, for that matter) suggestion and its complete removal would probably kill off the teams that aren't in major cities and ultimately make it extremely difficult for the other clubs to compete with the Sydney and Melbourne-based teams (since that is presumably where most foreign players would want to live and where most of the top quality local talent comes from). It's fantastic for the league (though admittedly, not great for our chances in the ACL) and an indication of that is that, despite our recent period of ineptitude, our club has probably only been truly uncompetitive in a handful of games over the past two years. In the short term, it's about having a competitive advantage over our opponents, and Victory specifically. You can't go out and outspend your rivals on every player, so there's got to be other incentives to sign with the Heart. And a lot of that comes down to having one of the best coaches, having the best facilities and being able to sell that your club is going to contend for silverware. So the ACL is a bit chicken/egg, in that sense. As for marquees, I think it's a bit of a balancing act. You can spend huge amounts on a big name European player, but you need to be very careful. Since he'll be making so much more than any other player in your team, you want to get a guy who will earn his money, by working harder than anyone else and producing when it matters. If he doesn't do that, and is just looking at making a few million and spending a few years taking it easy in the sun before retirement, it can lead to problems with the chemistry of the team in the change rooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 A rising tide lift all boats.. That´s where the focus on quality comes in regards to stuff like youth academies, good coaches and taking this game to another level, hopefully.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I repeat same owners can only have 1 club enter the ACL.. if they were to buy in china we'd be fucked in ACL I'm not disputing what you say, but could you point me to the relevant rule(s) etc. please, and the definition of ownership? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedukeofhearts Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 ENIC owns tottenham and a couple other teams I think (not sure I don't follow that stuff to closely. they may have sold some now) I seem to remember there was some talk of complications their once. Not sure if it happened to do with europa or something. I don't look to closely at this stuff. As long as we win I don't care http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIC_Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellum Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Roma and Liverpool have basically the same owners. Don't know what would happen if we played in the CL next season for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 City has publicly stated the desire to get Heart to be a regular participant in the ACL. Assuming they are looking to invest elsewhere in Asia, I think it's reasonable to assume that they are well and truly on top of this and if they end up owning two teams in Asia that are good enough to qualify, they'll do what is necessary to ensure that both are allowed to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aardvark Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Hypothetically what would raising the cap achieve for the competition? IMO unless the foreign player limit is capped also a raise in the cap provides almost no benefits and just makes it harder for clubs to compete financially. It's all well and good to argue that more money = better players, but where do these better players come from? Looking at the Australians only, there are four groups of players not based in Australia. There is group A, the oldies. These are the golden generation, like Bresciano, Cahill, Neill etc. All looking to make the most out of their final few years. ATM these guys are signing as Aussie marquees, like Emerton, Thompson etc. So a cap doesn't bring them back, because the salaries they are after don't have to fit in the cap atm anyway. Group B are the rising stars, guys like Good, Amini, Rukyvystya etc. These guys have gone overseas not for money, but for development. They left the A-League not to fill their pockets but in the belief that playing overseas will be more beneficial to their career than the A-League. Extra money might convince them to play an extra season here, but I'm not sure either the player or the Socceroos would see that as being the best option for their development. Group C are the regulars, the guys that play every week for the side in whatever league they are in, Jedinak, Lowry, Kruse etc. These guys aren't coming back to the A-League until they are no longer good enough to play in Europe and want to settle down in Australia and raise a family. Money isn't the lure there either. Group D are the greater pool of average players that don't fit in the above categories. Fringe players, players who's move to Europe failed or players that are past their peak and are not good enough to star in the A-League. Guys like Kisnorbo, McGrath, Leijer etc. These guys are already coming back to the A-League and getting paid within the cap. An increase in the cap doesn't benefit us there. So the raised salary cap doesn't get enough of them. So where does it go? Well a big part goes to internationals. It means we use our foreign spots on higher paid internationals, but still not stars. The obvious issue with this is that these guys are going to be signed to be the stars of the sides, which means the A-League will be a league where the foreign players are the stars and form the core of the side, while the Aussies fill out the squad and are mostly role players. From a developmental standpoint it limits our ability to give promising Australians key roles to learn and develop in. The other part of it goes to, well, the same guys currently on A-League lists. Anyone who thinks the agents of all the players currently in the league aren't going to go to the clubs saying "well now that you have that extra million in the salary cap, you can afford to be more flexible with what you pay my client". That means that the exact same players, the Sterjovski's, Burns and yes, the Hoffman's have their salaries raised for the simple reason of there being more money floating around. It's a false inflation that achieves nothing. So basically I don't see what it adds other than a thicker wad of cash into the imports pockets, and a useless increase in pay to the current players. And that's ontop of making it even harder for clubs that are already making a loss to survive financially, and compete in what is meant to be a level playing field. One of the beautiful things about Australian sport, despite all it's faults, is that it is remarkably even. If you look at the likes of Spain and England that is clearly not the case, and while I am looking forward to what I hope will be sustained success with our new owners, I would rather it not come in the form of an inflated salary cap to please a few and punish many. Edited January 28, 2014 by The Aardvark 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red or Dead Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Eh, what's an extra $2.5m? It's 3 awesome players or 5 decent players as opposed to having 5 Hoffman players! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 The salary cap is fine. Brisbane Roar and the Central Coast Mariners have had quality squads over multiple seasons that have fit within the salary cap. Heart's problem is our recruitment has always been sorely lacking in a few key areas, and our best players have only stayed around for a season or two, because the club stupidly didn't ensure that we got quality players in the 20-29 age range (think Skoko, Aloisi, Sibon, Bolton, Fred, Grella, Colosimo, Wielaert, Engelaar, Kewell, etc.). Hence we never got players like Broich, Berisha, Flores, Milligan, Hernandez (when he first joined the tards) or Jeronimo Neumann, who could form the spine of our team for multiple seasons. Heart's inability to build a good squad is because our recruiting has been poor, as shown by the club keeping Hoffman for 4 seasons (!!!!), the club reportedly having Williams as our Australian Marquee (possibly on 350k) and as I said our best players always being in the twilight of their careers. The salary cap is fine, our recruitment is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 The salary cap is fine. Brisbane Roar and the Central Coast Mariners have had quality squads over multiple seasons that have fit within the salary cap. Heart's problem is our recruitment has always been sorely lacking in a few key areas, and our best players have only stayed around for a season or two, because the club stupidly didn't ensure that we got quality players in the 20-29 age range (think Skoko, Aloisi, Sibon, Bolton, Fred, Grella, Colosimo, Wielaert, Engelaar, Kewell, etc.). Hence we never got players like Broich, Berisha, Flores, Milligan, Hernandez (when he first joined the tards) or Jeronimo Neumann, who could form the spine of our team for multiple seasons. Heart's inability to build a good squad is because our recruiting has been poor, as shown by the club keeping Hoffman for 4 seasons (!!!!), the club reportedly having Williams as our Australian Marquee (possibly on 350k) and as I said our best players always being in the twilight of their careers. The salary cap is fine, our recruitment is not. Brilliant post Murf. (Out of likes) And I would go on to bring this post to the attention of all those who want to retain the present admin staff at Heart. Key people have failed us miserably and are equally culpable as JA for where we sit today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulhollanddrive Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 With a salary cap, what you need even more are players who play as a team. If we're going to go back to international style, technical passing football, then Mooy and Spiranovic are a must. Need a striker who can create and play at his feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbitm Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) City has publicly stated the desire to get Heart to be a regular participant in the ACL. Assuming they are looking to invest elsewhere in Asia, I think it's reasonable to assume that they are well and truly on top of this and if they end up owning two teams in Asia that are good enough to qualify, they'll do what is necessary to ensure that both are allowed to play.Maybe that's why storm have a minority share, that could be a loophole in the rule.... Edited January 28, 2014 by Tbitm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellum Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Those talking about CFG buying in China, one of the key reasons we got the nod was the lack of corruption. I will take a punt and say that is a big issue with China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXJawsaXx Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Football Federation Australia is looking to strengthen its ties with Asia with the Hyundai A-League contemplating the implementation of a designated Asian only visa position. Speaking to Fairfax Media, FFA CEO David Gallop, has said the time is right to capitalise on Shinji Ono’s impact in the competition. "By 2020, it’s estimated there will be 400 million people playing football in Asia. We are part of that. Football can help the nation build political and economic ties with Asia. The A-League would benefit from fostering opportunities for Asian players," he told Fairfax Media. "The details would need fine tuning and discussing with the clubs, but having a spot for an Asian player definitely fits with our strategic direction.” "Our links with Asia are important, and when Shinji goes it will be disappointing to have lost our only star player from Asia," he said. Any change is unlikely to be implemented for next season though, as clubs will have foreign players already contracted. "It might take some time given the existing rules for visa places, which are for five foreign players, but it is definitely worth exploring," he said. http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/news-display/ffa-looking-to-strengthen-ties-with-asia/84419 Thought it was relevant because we were talking about it a few pages back haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexli Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Those talking about CFG buying in China, one of the key reasons we got the nod was the lack of corruption. I will take a punt and say that is a big issue with China. Corruption is a issue but not big. Chinese league now is very competitive and no club in China could make profit. An above-average Chinese player would cost club more that 3 million AUD as transfer fee and 200K AUD salary. Buying in China is a waste of money not an investment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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