jw1739 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 We don't have a good record with penalties. Last season we conceded 10 goals that way - a quarter of all the goals we conceded! This season two already. It's an aspect of our defensive play that is costing us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstrkrft Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 The ghost of Colosimo lives on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japiedog Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 technically, yes they were penalties Especially as the ref called out 2 players and spoke to them before the corner( so he was watching) but gee that was mickey mouse stuff, I've seen rugby tackles in the box go unpunished the handball was the ball playing the man as opposed to the other way, BUT paddy should have kept his arms down 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I guess the point I'm offering for debate is whether we're inviting penalties by the way we play, or whether we are being singled out for attention for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japiedog Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 ^^^^^^ I cant really argue that point, I'm not one to fall into the paranoid " we're being picked on camp." as for the previous seasons, as stated above Simon Colosimo was a culprit at times 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexandro Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 the handball was the ball playing the man as opposed to the other way, BUT paddy should have kept his arms down It's not like his hands were up in the air David Carney style. No way in the world was that a penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestr Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 the handball was the ball playing the man as opposed to the other way, BUT paddy should have kept his arms down It's not like his hands were up in the air David Carney style. No way in the world was that a penalty. If this was a penalty then refs should give one every second corner in every game Problem here as ppl said before paddy was warned by ref. ....... So be smart and don't repeat the action you've just been cautioned for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyheart Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 CCM player had a handful of GolGols jersey in the box in the first half. Double standards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 ^^^^^^ I cant really argue that point, I'm not one to fall into the paranoid " we're being picked on camp." as for the previous seasons, as stated above Simon Colosimo was a culprit at times Colosimo was just a shyte qant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbitm Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I don't think theres much Gerhardt could've done about his. Those are just bad luck. Ill treat Kisnorbo's situation as a "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". Pretty much I don't think what he did should've deserved a penalty since worse shit happens in the box all the time, but he better have learned his lesson so it doesn't happen again. Luckily it happened Rnd 2 and not in a derby or a finals match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Last season we conceded more penalties that any other team. I think that was because we defended so poorly the ball spent a lot of time in the box. I'll be concerned if that stat continues this season but its too early to tell. I do think though that we have a problem with our style of play and Ben Williams. We've only won 1 game that he has refereed AFAIK. I'm not suggesting that he's specifically biased but he certainly looks for things that our players do regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedukeofhearts Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I thought the ref was telling off the CCM player when he pulled them to the side the first time ??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestr Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Has anyone seen redmayne save 1 penalty anywhere??? Under 7's doesn't count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartFc Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Should've kept Bolton on the books to sub him in for penalties in the 20 mins. It's not like JA uses subs anyway. And I'm actually being dead serious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I too was up in arms regarding the penalties...and as much as it kills me to support that cunt williams, the first penalty, Kisnorbo was warned about grabbing the other player and then grabbed him quite high again, you can see why it was given, although maybe harsh, technically a penalty. The hand ball penalty, his hand was almost head high, it's not like it was by his side. Should it have been a penalty??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Still don't know what Gerdhart was doing with is arm in that penalty though. He should know better for someone who played CB for us last season than to have his arms so far away from his body. Even though the chances it may happen again, it's not exactly a good habit to get into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Am I the only one wondering about that sycthing "tackle" on Ramsay in the box in the first half? It was straight after he shot - the "tackle" was a mile late and cleaned him up. Surely a yellow card elsewhere on the field, so why not yellow and penalty? In regards to Ben Williams the observer has to make a choice - is he biased or just not up to it? Its not only heart games he stuffs up. worst ref in the A League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Mark my words the pace of the aleague has surpassed the ability of the refs here. There going to have to seriously consider how they train these refs or bring in refs from overseas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexandro Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) I too was up in arms regarding the penalties...and as much as it kills me to support that cunt williams, the first penalty, Kisnorbo was warned about grabbing the other player and then grabbed him quite high again, you can see why it was given, although maybe harsh, technically a penalty. The hand ball penalty, his hand was almost head high, it's not like it was by his side. Should it have been a penalty??? No because it was ball to hand. Gerhardt's arm was in the air as part of balancing himself as he lunged for the ball. If you actually look at players they often have arms all over the place including way above their head in order to position themselves. I really don't understand trying to blame Gerhardt for that penalty. Edited October 22, 2013 by alexandro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baresi Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) I too was up in arms regarding the penalties...and as much as it kills me to support that cunt williams, the first penalty, Kisnorbo was warned about grabbing the other player and then grabbed him quite high again, you can see why it was given, although maybe harsh, technically a penalty. The hand ball penalty, his hand was almost head high, it's not like it was by his side. Should it have been a penalty??? No because it was ball to hand. Gerhardt's arm was in the air as part of balancing himself as he lunged for the ball. If you actually look at players they often have arms all over the place including way above their head in order to position themselves. I really don't understand trying to blame Gerhardt for that penalty. As a professional football defender, you should know to keep your hands in when in the box. Watch quality European defenders, and you'll see them cross their hands behind their back when jockying or positioning themselves in the defensive third. As soon as your arms are out like Paddy's were, you risk giving away free kicks or penalties and getting cards. Edited October 22, 2013 by Baresi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Still don't know what Gerdhart was doing with is arm in that penalty though. He should know better for someone who played CB for us last season than to have his arms so far away from his body. Even though the chances it may happen again, it's not exactly a good habit to get into. If you look at the video, his arm is by his side until its struck by the ball and then it's knocked backwards away from his body, the ball hit him at some speed. It did deflect the ball but the penalty rule requires intentional handball. I don't have a problem with either penalty as long as every ref is consistent. They aren't. Even Ben Williams isn't, he ignored Matt Simon fouling Redmayne during the same set piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I don't think we can argue about either penalty. Now the overall quality of the referee's on the other hand... I spoke to a Scottish fellow after the derby and he was lamenting the standard of Australian refs. "Appalling" was the word he used. Niko is right. The game has progressed faster than the officials. The MLS has the same lol refereeing. I have come to treat it as an oddity to be embraced, this after being frustrated to boiling point on too many occasions. Until the standard of refereeing improves that is. Does ruin the game as a serious competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I too was up in arms regarding the penalties...and as much as it kills me to support that cunt williams, the first penalty, Kisnorbo was warned about grabbing the other player and then grabbed him quite high again, you can see why it was given, although maybe harsh, technically a penalty. The hand ball penalty, his hand was almost head high, it's not like it was by his side. Should it have been a penalty??? No because it was ball to hand. Gerhardt's arm was in the air as part of balancing himself as he lunged for the ball. If you actually look at players they often have arms all over the place including way above their head in order to position themselves. I really don't understand trying to blame Gerhardt for that penalty. I'm not blaming gerhardt, it was accidental, although could have been avoided. I'm quite sure gerhardts hand was not down but was around shoulder/head height and the ball hit it knocking his arm backwards. Clearly he didn't stop a shot on goal but a cross. So if it shouldn't have been a penalty then what should it be????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I too was up in arms regarding the penalties...and as much as it kills me to support that cunt williams, the first penalty, Kisnorbo was warned about grabbing the other player and then grabbed him quite high again, you can see why it was given, although maybe harsh, technically a penalty. The hand ball penalty, his hand was almost head high, it's not like it was by his side. Should it have been a penalty??? No because it was ball to hand. Gerhardt's arm was in the air as part of balancing himself as he lunged for the ball. If you actually look at players they often have arms all over the place including way above their head in order to position themselves. I really don't understand trying to blame Gerhardt for that penalty. As a professional football defender, you should know to keep your hands in when in the box. Watch quality European defenders, and you'll see them cross their hands behind their back when jockying or positioning themselves in the defensive third. As soon as your arms are our like Paddy's were, you risk giving away free kicks or penalties and getting cards. I actually noticed Wielaert doing this exact thing during the CCM game, he's class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dRoy Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I like it that Redmayne dives both ways. Bolton only dived to his left. Every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexandro Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I too was up in arms regarding the penalties...and as much as it kills me to support that cunt williams, the first penalty, Kisnorbo was warned about grabbing the other player and then grabbed him quite high again, you can see why it was given, although maybe harsh, technically a penalty. The hand ball penalty, his hand was almost head high, it's not like it was by his side. Should it have been a penalty??? No because it was ball to hand. Gerhardt's arm was in the air as part of balancing himself as he lunged for the ball. If you actually look at players they often have arms all over the place including way above their head in order to position themselves. I really don't understand trying to blame Gerhardt for that penalty. I'm not blaming gerhardt, it was accidental, although could have been avoided. I'm quite sure gerhardts hand was not down but was around shoulder/head height and the ball hit it knocking his arm backwards. Clearly he didn't stop a shot on goal but a cross. So if it shouldn't have been a penalty then what should it be????? For it to be a penalty it has to be intentional handball. Looking at the footage it's obvious there was no intention to handle the ball. So no penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazzaverx Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Fact is we conceded them and nothing will change that. What we can change however is how we bounce back after conceding. We were left so flat after the first penalty and that is something we can work on, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I too was up in arms regarding the penalties...and as much as it kills me to support that cunt williams, the first penalty, Kisnorbo was warned about grabbing the other player and then grabbed him quite high again, you can see why it was given, although maybe harsh, technically a penalty. The hand ball penalty, his hand was almost head high, it's not like it was by his side. Should it have been a penalty???No because it was ball to hand. Gerhardt's arm was in the air as part of balancing himself as he lunged for the ball. If you actually look at players they often have arms all over the place including way above their head in order to position themselves. I really don't understand trying to blame Gerhardt for that penalty.I'm not blaming gerhardt, it was accidental, although could have been avoided. I'm quite sure gerhardts hand was not down but was around shoulder/head height and the ball hit it knocking his arm backwards. Clearly he didn't stop a shot on goal but a cross. So if it shouldn't have been a penalty then what should it be?????For it to be a penalty it has to be intentional handball. Looking at the footage it's obvious there was no intention to handle the ball. So no penalty. Ok fair point, I in no way think it was intentional. I think fifa state that if the hand is in an unnatural position though it can be deemed a handball but it's at the refs discretion. For eg. like if the arm is in a higher position to potentially block the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baresi Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I too was up in arms regarding the penalties...and as much as it kills me to support that cunt williams, the first penalty, Kisnorbo was warned about grabbing the other player and then grabbed him quite high again, you can see why it was given, although maybe harsh, technically a penalty. The hand ball penalty, his hand was almost head high, it's not like it was by his side. Should it have been a penalty??? No because it was ball to hand. Gerhardt's arm was in the air as part of balancing himself as he lunged for the ball. If you actually look at players they often have arms all over the place including way above their head in order to position themselves. I really don't understand trying to blame Gerhardt for that penalty. I'm not blaming gerhardt, it was accidental, although could have been avoided. I'm quite sure gerhardts hand was not down but was around shoulder/head height and the ball hit it knocking his arm backwards. Clearly he didn't stop a shot on goal but a cross. So if it shouldn't have been a penalty then what should it be????? For it to be a penalty it has to be intentional handball. Looking at the footage it's obvious there was no intention to handle the ball. So no penalty. Yes, but his arm was already out when the ball hit him, and some referees could judge that as hand-to-ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepdog Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I too was up in arms regarding the penalties...and as much as it kills me to support that cunt williams, the first penalty, Kisnorbo was warned about grabbing the other player and then grabbed him quite high again, you can see why it was given, although maybe harsh, technically a penalty. The hand ball penalty, his hand was almost head high, it's not like it was by his side. Should it have been a penalty???No because it was ball to hand. Gerhardt's arm was in the air as part of balancing himself as he lunged for the ball. If you actually look at players they often have arms all over the place including way above their head in order to position themselves. I really don't understand trying to blame Gerhardt for that penalty. I'm not blaming gerhardt, it was accidental, although could have been avoided. I'm quite sure gerhardts hand was not down but was around shoulder/head height and the ball hit it knocking his arm backwards. Clearly he didn't stop a shot on goal but a cross. So if it shouldn't have been a penalty then what should it be????? For it to be a penalty it has to be intentional handball. Looking at the footage it's obvious there was no intention to handle the ball. So no penalty. Yes, but his arm was already out when the ball hit him, and some referees could judge that as hand-to-ball. With that logic you could have your arms anywhere and claim they were there first. It needs to be reasonably close to the defenders side. Tough decision but if it was the opposition we would be calling for a penalty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sash Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I too was up in arms regarding the penalties...and as much as it kills me to support that cunt williams, the first penalty, Kisnorbo was warned about grabbing the other player and then grabbed him quite high again, you can see why it was given, although maybe harsh, technically a penalty. The hand ball penalty, his hand was almost head high, it's not like it was by his side. Should it have been a penalty??? No because it was ball to hand. Gerhardt's arm was in the air as part of balancing himself as he lunged for the ball. If you actually look at players they often have arms all over the place including way above their head in order to position themselves. I really don't understand trying to blame Gerhardt for that penalty. I'm not blaming gerhardt, it was accidental, although could have been avoided. I'm quite sure gerhardts hand was not down but was around shoulder/head height and the ball hit it knocking his arm backwards. Clearly he didn't stop a shot on goal but a cross. So if it shouldn't have been a penalty then what should it be????? For it to be a penalty it has to be intentional handball. Looking at the footage it's obvious there was no intention to handle the ball. So no penalty. Yes, but his arm was already out when the ball hit him, and some referees could judge that as hand-to-ball. With that logic you could have your arms anywhere and claim they were there first. It needs to be reasonably close to the defenders side. Tough decision but if it was the opposition we would be calling for a penalty I agree. You can't have defenders standing with arms outstretched blocking shots and claiming it's not handball because the ball hit their arms. There was a handball shout against Paddy K in the first week. IMO the referees got both decisions right. Kisnorbo's arm was pretty close to his side in a natural position where Paddy G had it outstretched, even though he was lunging and using his arm to balance. It's unlucky because it wasn't deliberate, but it's the way it goes. What was frustrating was that both penalties occured in situations where there wasn't even a threat of scoring. Two cheap penalties out of nothing. No desperate mistimed tackles, just players doing what they normally do. But two harsh lessons - if the ref warns you, listen to him, and watch your arms when defending. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marteaux Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Still not sure wat the first penalty was given for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Still not sure wat the first penalty was given for? Kisnorbo was warned about grabbing the ccm player around the chest with both arms. When the kick was taken he was again holding the ccm player with both arms stopping him from playing the ball. Maybe a bit harsh but understandably penalty was given, you can't be warned about something and then repeat the same foul and not expect to be punished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) Still not sure wat the first penalty was given for? Kisnorbo was warned about grabbing the ccm player around the chest with both arms. When the kick was taken he was again holding the ccm player with both arms stopping him from playing the ball. Maybe a bit harsh but understandably penalty was given, you can't be warned about something and then repeat the same foul and not expect to be punished. There is also the fact that the reason Paddy K was doing as such prior to the cormer was because the CCM player was himself was being a kent and trying to both push and distract Redders. A referee can not see everything therefore the Defending Side always deserves the benefit of the doubt in Soccer, just like the Batsman in Cricket, and the Attacking (Try Scoring) side in League. Edited October 23, 2013 by cadete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Totally agree I saw that as well, but Kisnorbo was the one caught holding on to the ccm player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Cor Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Bump! I guess the point I'm offering for debate is whether we're inviting penalties by the way we play, or whether we are being singled out for attention for some reason. Going by Friday night's game, I think it's a combination of the way we play and also some poor decision-making by some of the defenders. Our inability to play out from the back due to a static and unresponsive midfield, means that when we are pressed in our half or in particular our defensive third, we cough over possession cheaply. This is how we conceded the goal against WSW the week prior, and how we conceded the penalty against SFC. When this happens, it places our defence under more pressure than necessary, resulting in anxious defending and players making the wrong decisions in the penalty box. There was no need for Wielart to dive in on Friday night as there was no real threat, we had more defenders in the box than SFC had players. However this is what happens when you're anxious and you have little confidence in the way we're playing. Nevertheless, an experienced defender should know when to keep their feet and when to make a slide tackle in their penalty area. We've conceded three goals from the spot so far this year and it's only Round 6. At this rate, we could very well be surpassing last season's tally of ten. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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