Unpopular Opinions That You Have.

[n i k o]

@Tesla yeah I agree, I used it more to say that it feels like Muslims take up a majority of attacks than a factual number. 

[Harrison]

Some statistics in The Age today:

32K people killed by terrorists in 2014 (rise of 80 per cent on 2013)

51 per cent of deaths attributed to IS and Boko Haram 

37 deaths in Western countries

70 per cent of deaths in Western countries over the past 10 years were lone-wolf

 

[Tesla]

1 minute ago, n i k o said:

@Tesla yeah I agree, I used it more to say that it feels like Muslims take up a majority of attacks than a factual number. 

And that's why you have all the crazy conspiracy theory stuff and all the left wing people screaming "what about christian terrorists", because there is a double standard. Even I had to second guess myself mentioning the Norway attacks, which are clearly a terrorist attack, but it didn't seem clear cut when it first came to my head because they are treated differently by the publi/media/etc when its a muslim vs a non-muslim.

3 minutes ago, Harrison said:

32K people killed by terrorists in 2014 (rise of 80 per cent on 2013)

37 deaths in Western countries

This brings me back to the original thing I said, 37 deaths across all western countries in 2014. In 2015 this incident is obviously going to inflate the number, but still it will probably be like 200 or something. Such minuscule numbers I don't know why people are stressing. Probably around the same amount of people that would have died from a bee-stings in Western countries over the year.

[cadete]

2 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

Have you ever read the Christian bible? It says plenty of just as violent and shocking things as the Quran, in fact it actually advocates genocide.

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites andutterly destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'”

And then God punishes King Samuel for not obeying his command and taking the Amalkite king alive. That is just one example. There are literally hundreds of other examples of glorification of violence and murder throughout the whole bible.

But why are there no violent Christian extremists in the world today you're probably asking? Simple. There are.

- Anti-Balaka, a CHRISTIAN terrorist group in the Central African Republic burned almost every mosque in the country in 2014 and have engaged in several large scale massacres against muslims. In fact there were even reports of cannibalism of muslims by the Anti-Balaka. Its setimated that due to the escalating violence by the group that around 350,000 muslim refugees have been forced to flee the country.

- Remember #Kony2012? Joseph Kony is the leader of a Ugandan CHRISTIAN terrorist organisation called the Lord's Resistance Army. They use child soldiers to destroy villages, murder, torure and rape thousands of people. But they're sure to wear their rosary beads into every battle after the read their bibles.

- The National Liberation Front of a Tripura is a CHRISTIAN terrorist organisation based in Northern India. They state they their aim is to remove all Bengali immigrants from from the tribal areas and turn the state overtly Christian. They've warned the local tribes that failure to accept Christianity as the one true religionbwill result in extreme violence towards them. They also recieve funding and weapons from Baptist Church of Tripura.

- The Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland is another CHRISTIAN terrorist organisation based in Northern India. Their motto is "Nagaland for Christ" and their aim is also to convert all of the local tribes to Christianity by any means necessary. In 1992-93 they committed an ethnic cleansing in Northern India where over 900 local tribespeople were killed.

- Huntaree is a CHRISTIAN militia group based in Michigan, USA. In 2011 Daryl Johnson from the US Homeland Security Department stated that Huntaree possessed more weapons that all of the Islamic terrorists arrested in the United States since 2001 combined.

There are obvilously more examples such as the Aryan brotherhood, the KKK and many many more but I think I've made my point. What is the common thread that links these groups together (Except the US based ones as that is another thing all together)? They are based in unstable, poor countries. If a country is in a bad enough way, violent rebel groups will appear. And what is the best way to get people on the side of your violent rebel group? Telling them that you're doing the work of God. These violent groups use violent passages from every holy text imaginable to justify their actions. Christianity is just as easy to abuse for your own will as Islam.

In the case of many of the Islamic terrorist groups in the Middle East such as ISIS and Al Queada and the Taliban, they only become as massive and powerful as they do because the United States and other countries fund them to overthrow governments or win wars for them to make taking oil from rogue states easier. The cause of ISIS, as myself and Tesla have already mentioned, is a geopolitical one more than a religious one. ISIS appeal to and radicalise people around the world in a way that Al Queadea and the Taliban never did as they have access to more technology, allowing them to spread their awful message to the world via social media. If Australia was ever in a war torn state like that of Iraq or Syria, you would see far right nationalist terrorist groups of all religions pop up all over the place.

As to your other ridiculous point about the Trojan Horse? You sound like one of those American gun nuts who needs a stockpile of ammunition in case somebosy is out their trying to get them. Muslims have been part of Australian culture for over 100 years. Believe it or not, the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of muslims are just like me and you. All they want is to be happy and healthy and live a good life. If all muslims were really out to destroy the Aussie way of life, they already would have. There are 1.5 billion of them.  Now I assume you're talking about not allowing refugees into the country because of the relatively minor threat that one of them will be a terrorist. Shockingly enough, the refugees are the ones running away from ISIS, not the ones trying to spread it. We shouldn't stop immigration of all white Christian Americans on the off chance that one of them may be a member of the Aryan Brotherhood should we? Islam isn't the problem. The problem is war and imperialism.

Sorry for the wall of text, but shit like this makes my blood boil.

I write a long reply and then I CBF finishing it and say five things.

1. The last three Terrorist Attacks in Australian were committed by who? Not by any of these Christian Terror Groups you found on Reddit.

2. Please read up a thing called the Hadith, its the Islamic Text ISIS use (wrongly) to justify their actions not the beauty of the Quran.

3. You just exercised a right you have in this country due to being based on the Christian Western Tradition of Free Speech that is the very thing ISIS are trying to stop the world from doing. (The ALP's policy towards ISIS if they were in power would deviate almost hardly at all from the current Coalition Policy).

4. Thank god for the Australian Two Party System and the Australian Electorate that PPL such as yourself who dismiss the Islamic State Problem as something caused purely by American Imperialism will never ever be elected into Government. 

5. Finally the Old Testament stuff as a Bloodthirsty Christian Teaching was just beyond ridiculous.

Edited November 19, 2015 by cadete

[Tesla]

30 minutes ago, cadete said:

 

4. Thank god for the Australian Two Party System and the Australian Electorate that PPL such as yourself who dismiss the Islamic State Problem as something caused purely by American Imperialism will never ever be elected into Government. 

True, it's not caused purely by American Imperialism, but if Saddam and Assad were still in power none of this would have happened. And if it wasn't for the US basically overthrowing them both, they would still be in power.

As big a cunt as they both are/were,  they kept shit under control. Just like the other Middle Eastern leaders that were overthrown by the US, and just like the other Middle Eastern leaders that are supported by the US.

Seems to be only one proven way of keeping these countries stable, and as bad as it is, it's the lesser of two evils. 

[n i k o]

23 minutes ago, Tesla said:

True, it's not caused purely by American Imperialism, but if Saddam and Assad were still in power none of this would have happened. And if it wasn't for the US basically overthrowing them both, they would still be in power.

As big a cunt as they both are/were,  they kept shit under control. Just like the other Middle Eastern leaders that were overthrown by the US, and just like the other Middle Eastern leaders that are supported by the US.

Seems to be only one proven way of keeping these countries stable, and as bad as it is, it's the lesser of two evils. 

This. 

[cadete]

1 hour ago, Tesla said:

True, it's not caused purely by American Imperialism, but if Saddam and Assad were still in power none of this would have happened. And if it wasn't for the US basically overthrowing them both, they would still be in power.

As big a cunt as they both are/were,  they kept shit under control. Just like the other Middle Eastern leaders that were overthrown by the US, and just like the other Middle Eastern leaders that are supported by the US.

Seems to be only one proven way of keeping these countries stable, and as bad as it is, it's the lesser of two evils. 

I hear this theory a bit and I largely agree with it but the thing I find annoying about is that it's often given out but the same PPL who say everybody is being Islamphobic all the time.

But IMO the above opinion is kind of Islamphobic because it's saying that the Middle East and these Islamic countries cannot be converted to democracy. (Where as other countries have been able to go through such a change.)

And thousands of Australian Muslims have shown this is not the case, likewise has the nation of Turkey.

[sheepdog]

[Tesla]

8 minutes ago, cadete said:

I hear this theory a bit and I largely agree with it but the thing I find annoying about is that it's often given out but the same PPL who say everybody is being Islamphobic all the time.

But IMO the above opinion is kind of Islamphobic because it's saying that the Middle East and these Islamic countries cannot be converted to democracy. (Where as other countries have been able to go through such a change.)

And thousands of Australian Muslims have shown this is not the case, likewise has the nation of Turkey.

Well I don't think it means they can't be converted to democracy, maybe just right now it's too hard/costly.

There are other examples where authoritarian governments have kept the peace, and it took a large amount of violence to convert to democracy, so I don't think it's to do with Islam. A recent example being the Balkans as there weren't problems under Tito and TBH it's surprising how long things were held together by Milosevic as that was never going to work (mainly because Milosevic was a Serb leading a country where the largest ethnic group were Serbians, which unsettle the balance that was there when Tito who was Croatian was in charge).

It took about  decade of violence to resolve and at its worst it was obviously very bad.

But I think if it wasn't for good timing it would have been worse, there was obviously a fair bit of US influence both the first time  and more so when Kosovo came around and both times Russia was too weak to do anything. If it happened 10 years earlier or 10 years later it probably would have been worse as you'd have Russia influencing things as well making the violence go on longer.

Maybe the Middle East also needs a time when there are less vested interests to interfere so that it can concert to democracy. Because right now it couldn't be worse in that regard. 

[HeartFc]

Can we just address the issues of Islam without mentioning other religions... it that even possible?

When a Catholic Priest gets done for kiddy fiddling does everyone suddenly mention Muhammed and Aisha or the millions of child brides who a married off in Islamic ceremonies. No. Stick to the fucking topic at hand. 

Now, we can make arguments about the rise of militant islam by giving examples of foreign policy, "Islamopobia" and other factors which of course add fuel to the fire. However the core principles cannot be ignored.

We can directly link certain text in the Quran and Haddith to violent behaviour without conflating it with social economic factors, "evil imperialist" and "being mean to poor muslims". For example; Salman Rushdie and the Satanic Verses. It was just a fucking book yet millions of people called for the guys execution. Why? Coz he insulted Muhammed. Thats it. He didn't invade Iraq, he didn't impose any law or create a dangerous environment for muslims. He isnt alone sadly. Look Theo Van Gogh, Ayann Hirsi Ali etc. etc. Im sensing a theme...

Lets get a couple things straight. The Quran is a fucked up book. Muhammed was a fucked up guy. Those are facts. Much like the Old Testament, much like Abraham and all the other e-literate desert dwellers. No one has any right to tell me I shouldn't be allow to say that. 

 

Now if your gonna paint me with the "Islamophobe" or racist brush you can go get fucked. Black people can't convert to being white or asian but they can certainly convert to Islam. Race is not religion. (btw the term Islamophia was coined by a terrorist organisation so it should be labelled as propaganda.)

Ok so now thats out of the way. I have no issues with Muslims as people. I have heaps of Muslims mates and thankfully we have great convos regarding the topic and no one gets too upset. I also have mates who hate the catholic church and call Christians morons. Thats cool with me. Im not really religious but my folks are and ill always have a cultural connection to the faith. 

 

The two guys everyone needs to listen, read about etc etc, are Sam Harris and Maajid Nawaz. One a secular (jew) atheist and the other a former Jihadist now Muslims reformer. They wrote a great book on the topic of Islam and IMO they are the guys we should be listening to.

Ive read 3 of sam harris' books, 2 of Christopher Hitchens and 1 of Nawaz. Ive learnt a fuck load in the process, I suggest everyone does the same.

 

There has to be a solution to the problem but sweeping it under the carpet because of  fear is not it. 

 

 

[Tesla]

9 minutes ago, HeartFc said:

Can we just address the issues of Islam without mentioning other religions... it that even possible?

 

I agree, I'm also not a fan of people going down the "christian terrorists" route when the topic comes up. The only time I mentioned it was when someone said 99% of terrorist attacks in the West are done by muslims, so i had to use as an example showing that's not true.

 

11 minutes ago, HeartFc said:

When a Catholic Priest gets done for kiddy fiddling does everyone suddenly mention Muhammed and Aisha or the millions of child brides who a married off in Islamic ceremonies. No. Stick to the fucking topic at hand. 

 

Do you know why no one mentions it? Because everyone knows being a paedophile is not a result of what religion you are. Just like being a terrorist isn't a result of what religion you are. But just like religion, by being a priest for example, may give a paedophile both a good cover story and access to young children, religion also gives those who have their own political agendas and personal ambitions a way both to legitimise their psychopathic nature and a way of manipulating others into fighting for them.

 

[strider]

UR ALL INFIDELS 

[HeartFc]

Tesla religion CAN influence your mind set and behaviour. Its a cop out to say it only works one way. 

If Muhammad had a 6 year old wife and Muhammad is worshiped as the prefect man then its clear why islamic law allows child brides. Clear as day.

[GreenSeater]

6 hours ago, cadete said:

I write a long reply and then I CBF finishing it and say five things.

1. The last three Terrorist Attacks in Australian were committed by who? Not by any of these Christian Terror Groups you found on Reddit.

2. Please read up a thing called the Hadith, its the Islamic Text ISIS use (wrongly) to justify their actions not the beauty of the Quran.

3. You just exercised a right you have in this country due to being based on the Christian Western Tradition of Free Speech that is the very thing ISIS are trying to stop the world from doing. (The ALP's policy towards ISIS if they were in power would deviate almost hardly at all from the current Coalition Policy).

4. Thank god for the Australian Two Party System and the Australian Electorate that PPL such as yourself who dismiss the Islamic State Problem as something caused purely by American Imperialism will never ever be elected into Government. 

5. Finally the Old Testament stuff as a Bloodthirsty Christian Teaching was just beyond ridiculous.

1 - As I mentioned in my post, the Islamic State is one of the first terrorist groups to spread radicalisation to areas around the globe via social media. This is also a peaceful, Christian majority country, so it would be pretty difficult to radicalise a group of Christians by saying that they're being oppressed by other religions or by an invading country. (Not saying muslims are oppressed in Australia as I don't think they are, but with some of the dickheads in this country you can understand how someone could be convinced of it) Also fwiw I've never been on Reddit.

2 - I have read several of the Hadiths. I do understand how horrible it is. I also never claimed that the Koran is beautiful, in fact my opinion is the opposite as I believe that the Koran is filled with many awful things, as HeartFc mentioned above. I simply said that every single religious book is filled with the same bullshit so Islam shouldn't be singled out as the only one.

3 - Actually free speech is a tradition of the secular West, not Christianity. I also never said I had a problem with free speech? In fact I support free speech fully, however with freedom of speech comes the freedom to criticise and challenge the opinions that others exercise their freedom of speech to voice. I was simply challenging jw179's statement that Christianity doesn't have aspects of extremism in the modern world when he challenged my use of the Spanish Inquisition as an example. I also disagreed with his example of comparing muslims with the horse of Troy. I certainly don't think Islam should be free of criticism either as it has many awful aspects. I don't understand why you think I'm supporting anything ISIS does or why you brought up the ALP's policy on ISIS as I never said I disagreed the current government's policy on the issue.

4 - Really don't understand what my political view has to do with anything here? Also I never said that I don't support the two party system of Australia or the Australian electorate. I also never suggested that Western intervention was the sole cause of ISIS. I stated that political reasons were the main cause of ISIS however Islam is a major factor in it as well. I don't understand why anyone who thinks that there is more to ISIS than Islam shouldn't ever be elected to government. Pretty ridiculous statement imo.

5 - So what you're saying here is that, like the vast majority of Christians, you choose to ignore the violent and horrible parts of the bible. The vast majority of Muslims would also ignore the Hadiths you mentioned and the more problematic parts of the Koran. The extremist idiot Christians follow the violent and horrible parts of the bible. The extremist idiot Muslims follow the violent and horrible parts of the Koran and the Hadiths. What's the difference between the two?

That's genuinely the only point I was trying to get across with my post. That painting all muslims with the same brush as ISIS is just as ridiculous as painting all Christians with the same brush as Christian extremists. Whilst there are obviously huge issues with Islam, as there are with all religions, it is wrong to vilify all muslims and claim that they should not be allowed into Australia as refugees because of an extremist group created by political turmoil within their region.

Edited November 19, 2015 by GreenSeater

[hakz7]

3 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

1 - As I mentioned in my post, the Islamic State is one of the first terrorist groups to spread radicalisation to areas around the globe via social media. This is also a peaceful, Christian majority country, so it would be pretty difficult to radicalise a group of Christians by saying that they're being oppressed by other religions or by an invading country. (Not saying muslims are oppressed in Australia as I don't think they are, but with some of the dickheads in this country you can understand how someone could be convinced of it) Also fwiw I've never been on Reddit.

2 - I have read several of the Hadiths. I do understand how horrible it is. I also never claimed that the Koran is beautiful, in fact my opinion is the opposite as I believe that the Koran is filled with many awful things, as HeartFc mentioned above. I simply said that every single religious book is filled with the same bullshit so Islam shouldn't be singled out as the only one.

3 - Actually free speech is a tradition of the secular West, not Christianity. I also never said I had a problem with free speech? In fact I support free speech fully, however with freedom of speech comes the freedom to criticise and challenge the opinions that others exercise their freedom of speech to voice. I was simply challenging jw179's statement that Christianity doesn't have aspects of extremism in the modern world when he challenged my use of the Spanish Inquisition as an example. I also disagreed with his example of comparing muslims with the horse of Troy. I certainly don't think Islam should be free of criticism either as it has many awful aspects. I don't understand why you think I'm supporting anything ISIS does or why you brought up the ALP's policy on ISIS as I never said I disagreed the current government's policy on the issue.

4 - Really don't understand what my political view has to do with anything here? Also I never said that I don't support the two party system of Australia or the Australian electorate. I also never suggested that Western intervention was the sole cause of ISIS. I stated that political reasons were the main cause of ISIS however Islam is a major factor in it as well. I don't understand why anyone who thinks that there is more to ISIS than Islam shouldn't ever be elected to government. Pretty ridiculous statement imo.

5 - So what you're saying here is that, like the vast majority of Christians, you choose to ignore the violent and horrible parts of the bible. The vast majority of Muslims would also ignore the Hadiths you mentioned and the more problematic parts of the Koran. The extremist idiot Christians follow the violent and horrible parts of the bible. The extremist idiot Muslims follow the violent and horrible parts of the Koran and the Hadiths. What's the difference between the two?

That's genuinely the only point I was trying to get across with my post. That painting all muslims with the same brush as ISIS is just as ridiculous as painting all Christians with the same brush as Christian extremists. Whilst there are obviously huge issues with Islam, as there are with all religions, it is wrong to vilify all muslims and claim that they should not be allowed into Australia as refugees because of an extremist group created by political turmoil within their region.

"Hadiths horrible"? "Koran is filled with many awful things"?

Can you tell me how you've come to these conclusions please.

[hakz7]

2 hours ago, HeartFc said:

Tesla religion CAN influence your mind set and behaviour. Its a cop out to say it only works one way. 

If Muhammad had a 6 year old wife and Muhammad is worshiped as the prefect man then its clear why islamic law allows child brides. Clear as day.

She was given consent at 6 but they waited till she was 9 because that's when she reached puberty. No one ever criticised this back then because it was obviously normal. Not even the non-muslims.

We're talking about 14 centuries ago. Everywhere in the world, girls were being married at early ages because the acceptable age of adulthood were much lower as the age of puberty was lower as well. But people only refer to one example...

[GreenSeater]

7 minutes ago, hakz7 said:

"Hadiths horrible"? "Koran is filled with many awful things"?

Can you tell me how you've come to these conclusions please.

Hadith: Tabari 7:97 - The morning after the muder of Ashraf, The Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."

Quran 3:56 - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

That's just one quote from each. There are genuinely hundreds.

[hakz7]

21 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

Hadith: Tabari 7:97 - The morning after the muder of Ashraf, The Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."

Quran 3:56 - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

That's just one quote from each. There are genuinely hundreds.

That hadith is false.

And why is it surprising that God will punish non-believers? That's no different in Christianity...

 

[GreenSeater]

7 minutes ago, hakz7 said:

That hadith is false.

And why is it surprising that God will punish non-believers? That's no different in Christianity...

 

You clearly haven't been reading my posts saying exactly that repeatedly...

[hakz7]

12 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

You clearly haven't been reading my posts saying exactly that repeatedly...

Fair enough. They were too long haha

[GreenSeater]

9 minutes ago, hakz7 said:

Fair enough. They were too long haha

Haha yeah sorry about that

[kingofhearts]

So is their a religion that doesn't kill people?

Can i join that one? :)

[HeartFc]

27 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

So is their a religion that doesn't kill people?

Can i join that one? :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism

[HeartFc]

1 hour ago, hakz7 said:

She was given consent at 6 but they waited till she was 9 because that's when she reached puberty. No one ever criticised this back then because it was obviously normal. Not even the non-muslims.

We're talking about 14 centuries ago. Everywhere in the world, girls were being married at early ages because the acceptable age of adulthood were much lower as the age of puberty was lower as well. But people only refer to one example...

Still happens now. Its a common Islamic practice. The reason is because they follow the example of Muhammad. Thats the point I was trying to make. 

Everyone is happy to talk all about how the west's foreign policy has helped the rise of islamic terrorism which is of course is true. However no one wants to talk about the link between specific islamic doctrine and the direct behaviour. Eg. Child marriage, Polygamy, Blasphemy Law, Honour Killings etc etc.

Member's total reputation

They don't want to talk about it coz its taboo to say islam is full of bullshit. (BTW I don't discriminate, christianity is full of shit too.) 

 

 

 

[Tesla]

3 hours ago, HeartFc said:

Still happens now. Its a common Islamic practice. The reason is because they follow the example of Muhammad. Thats the point I was trying to make. 

Everyone is happy to talk all about how the west's foreign policy has helped the rise of islamic terrorism which is of course is true. However no one wants to talk about the link between specific islamic doctrine and the direct behaviour. Eg. Child marriage, Polygamy, Blasphemy Law, Honour Killings etc etc.

Member's total reputation

They don't want to talk about it coz its taboo to say islam is full of bullshit. (BTW I don't discriminate, christianity is full of shit too.) 

 

 

 

Do you not think this is a cop out though? That someone can go kill/rape/whatever and it's religion's fault and not their own?

I actually talked about this earlier:

 

On 18/11/2015, 13:21:03, Tesla said:

Even if Islam said "go and kill everyone that doesn't believe" (I have no idea if it does or doesn't, not sure it even matters TBH), anyone that blindly follows any religion is fucked in the head. Simple as that.

AFAIK every major religion is full of shit that is not compatible with our modern Western society. For example, in places like Australia and the UK you could very well go to jail just for advocating the anti-gay shit that major religions teach (including both Islam and Christianity), let alone if you actually acted out on it.

But still there are millions of religious people that have no problem fitting in to our society and it's values, because they don't blindly follow the teachings of thousand year old books. Personally, I've always been under the impression that organised religion is an "all or nothing" sort of thing (which is why it has never appealed to me), so not sure how all these people actually justify this "pick and choose" approach to themselves, but that's not my business as long as they aren't doing the retarded shit found in their religion it's a good thing.

Anyway, the point is, I don't give a fuck what any religion says, it has nothing to do with the actions of an individual. If you blindly follow and live your life according to some thousand year old books, thats called being brainwashed. And if you go and commit violence because of these beliefs, that's called being a psychopath, which is a mental disorder independent of one's religious beliefs.

 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Tesla

[Deviant]

"If you've only read one book, that's the only book you know." - Unknown

[HeartFc]

Of course its an individuals fault, I never said it wasn't. However theres no denying their religion plays a huge part in how they behave. To say its not important is dive head first into a sandpit. 

This is not the equivalent little Johnny playing violent video games and stabbing someone at school. 

[cadete]

19 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

5 - So what you're saying here is that, like the vast majority of Christians, you choose to ignore the violent and horrible parts of the bible. The vast majority of Muslims would also ignore the Hadiths you mentioned and the more problematic parts of the Koran. The extremist idiot Christians follow the violent and horrible parts of the bible. The extremist idiot Muslims follow the violent and horrible parts of the Koran and the Hadiths. What's the difference between the two?

That's genuinely the only point I was trying to get across with my post. That painting all muslims with the same brush as ISIS is just as ridiculous as painting all Christians with the same brush as Christian extremists. Whilst there are obviously huge issues with Islam, as there are with all religions, it is wrong to vilify all muslims and claim that they should not be allowed into Australia as refugees because of an extremist group created by political turmoil within their region.

1. The Old Testament is a Secondary Sacred Text for Muslims as well as Christians... you dont seem to mention this in your essays.

2. All these Horrible and Violent parts of the Bible you mention occur in the Old Testament and not the Gospel which is what 90% of Christianity is about...

3. Christians care almost entirely about teachings of Christ, Muslims care entirely about the teachings of Muhammad (Makes sense) neither really care about the Old Testament except for its influence on either of these figures.

4.  Therefore when the Hadith mentions Muhammad declaring war on his enemies... something the Gospel does not then obviously it's easier for such Text to be taken out of context. (Which is what these idiots are doing).

5. Your mentioning of a series of largely minor Christian Terrorist groups is irrelevant to problem at hand which is that no Terrorist Group is having such an effect as ISIS is currently having on the World, the Western World and Australia. (I am sure you can say but "X" amount of PPL died in Africa or whatever but the fact is that we dont live in Africa or South America we live in Australia, and its Human Nature for PPL to care Terrorist Attacks that occur in their own country or countries that they visit or have family living in and not a place they will never ever see.)

6. There is a major difference between "Painting All Muslims with the same brush" and saying that "Unfortunately some Important Islamic Texts are more easily able to be interpreted poorly to justify Violence than those of other Religions". Everybody here knows that Islam can be practised peacefully and is done so by 99% of Muslims in the world but you can't nitpick obscure parts of the Old Testament and say they have the same relevance to Christianity as the Hadith does to Islam. 

Edited November 20, 2015 by cadete

[thisphantomfortress]

1 hour ago, cadete said:

6. There is a major difference between "Painting All Muslims with the same brush" and saying that "Unfortunately some Important Islamic Texts are more easily able to be interpreted poorly to justify Violence than those of other Religions". Everybody here knows that Islam can be practised peacefully and is done so by 99% of Muslims in the world but you can't nitpick obscure parts of the Old Testament and say they have the same relevance to Christianity as the Hadith does to Islam.

Honestly, the best explination of this issue I've seen yet. Well played.

[bt50]

1 hour ago, cadete said:

1. The Old Testament is a Secondary Sacred Text for Muslims as well as Christians... you dont seem to mention this in your essays.

2. All these Horrible and Violent parts of the Bible you mention occur in the Old Testament and not the Gospel which is what 90% of Christianity is about...

3. Christians care almost entirely about teachings of Christ, Muslims care entirely about the teachings of Muhammad (Makes sense) neither really care about the Old Testament except for its influence on either of these figures.

4.  Therefore when the Hadith mentions Muhammad declaring war on his enemies... something the Gospel does not then obviously it's easier for such Text to be taken out of context. (Which is what these idiots are doing).

5. Your mentioning of a series of largely minor Christian Terrorist groups is irrelevant to problem at hand which is that no Terrorist Group is having such an effect as ISIS is currently having on the World, the Western World and Australia. (I am sure you can say but "X" amount of PPL died in Africa or whatever but the fact is that we dont live in Africa or South America we live in Australia, and its Human Nature for PPL to care Terrorist Attacks that occur in their own country or countries that they visit or have family living in and not a place they will never ever see.)

6. There is a major difference between "Painting All Muslims with the same brush" and saying that "Unfortunately some Important Islamic Texts are more easily able to be interpreted poorly to justify Violence than those of other Religions". Everybody here knows that Islam can be practised peacefully and is done so by 99% of Muslims in the world but you can't nitpick obscure parts of the Old Testament and say they have the same relevance to Christianity as the Hadith does to Islam.

Nailed it.

[ecguymer]

On 19/11/2015, 12:55:22, cadete said:

1. The last three Terrorist Attacks in Australian were committed by who? Not by any of these Christian Terror Groups you found on Reddit.

Unless I've missed one somewhere, from what I can find, the last incidents that can clearly be defined as terrorist attacks are mostly from the 1980's, along with the firebombing of the Perth French Consulate in 1995; since then, there have been two attacks that are debatable on if they are terrorist attacks or not, being the Lint cafe siege and the 2001 attack on an abortion clinic.

[Jestr]

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned terrorist activities by 2 of closely related extremist organisations.

people' front of Judea and Judean people's front............pure evil.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Jestr

[Jestr]

It's interesting how Israel has escaped being named in the above conversations.

look up this character Harold Wallace Rosenthal  let's see your opinions on Talmud and its teaching.

[GreenSeater]

On 20/11/2015, 14:35:36, cadete said:

1. The Old Testament is a Secondary Sacred Text for Muslims as well as Christians... you dont seem to mention this in your essays.

2. All these Horrible and Violent parts of the Bible you mention occur in the Old Testament and not the Gospel which is what 90% of Christianity is about...

3. Christians care almost entirely about teachings of Christ, Muslims care entirely about the teachings of Muhammad (Makes sense) neither really care about the Old Testament except for its influence on either of these figures.

4.  Therefore when the Hadith mentions Muhammad declaring war on his enemies... something the Gospel does not then obviously it's easier for such Text to be taken out of context. (Which is what these idiots are doing).

5. Your mentioning of a series of largely minor Christian Terrorist groups is irrelevant to problem at hand which is that no Terrorist Group is having such an effect as ISIS is currently having on the World, the Western World and Australia. (I am sure you can say but "X" amount of PPL died in Africa or whatever but the fact is that we dont live in Africa or South America we live in Australia, and its Human Nature for PPL to care Terrorist Attacks that occur in their own country or countries that they visit or have family living in and not a place they will never ever see.)

6. There is a major difference between "Painting All Muslims with the same brush" and saying that "Unfortunately some Important Islamic Texts are more easily able to be interpreted poorly to justify Violence than those of other Religions". Everybody here knows that Islam can be practised peacefully and is done so by 99% of Muslims in the world but you can't nitpick obscure parts of the Old Testament and say they have the same relevance to Christianity as the Hadith does to Islam. 

Was away all weekend hence the late reply to this, but I do understand and agree with a lot of the things you're saying. I agree that people here would obviously care more about terrorism in places they identify with, and with good reason, however as someone who has lived in one of the countries I mentioned it is relevant to myself and I therefore believed it should be discussed.

I'm certainly not trying to make the point that Christianity is equally as bad as Islam when it comes to preaching violence, because it clearly isn't. Islam has always been the most violent of the Abrahamic religions. As you say in point 5 there is a difference between painting all muslims with the same brush and saying that there are flaws in the teachings of Islam. I agree with this. I simply started my rant in response to comments made on here and elsewhere that were along the lines of all muslims are bad and we should shut the borders to them, and was trying to point out that there are flaws and idiots in all religions, included the majority religion of Australia.

Edited November 22, 2015 by GreenSeater

[NewConvert]

12 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

Was away all weekend hence the late reply to this, but I do understand and agree with a lot of the things you're saying. I agree that people here would obviously care more about terrorism in places they identify with, and with good reason, however as someone who has lived in one of the countries I mentioned it is relevant to myself and I therefore believed it should be discussed.

I'm certainly not trying to make the point that Christianity is equally as bad as Islam when it comes to preaching violence, because it clearly isn't. Islam has always been the most violent of the Abrahamic religions. As you say in point 5 there is a difference between painting all muslims with the same brush and saying that there are flaws in the teachings of Islam. I agree with this. I simply started my rant in response to comments made on here and elsewhere that were along the lines of all muslims are bad and we should shut the borders to them, and was trying to point out that there are flaws and idiots in all religions, included the majority religion of Australia.

Just going off track a little bit, the whole region was quite violent even prior to the birth of the prophet. Since its history is better documented you can count the Hitites, the Egyptians, the Persians, the Babylonians, the Israelies (both versions), and the regular incursions from the Parthians (who ever they were) and then came the Greeks and so on. Of course once European civilisation developed you can then add even more violence. In a sense for Western countries the period post WW2 were the most peaceful their history. So I wonder whether the religious are just putting an over lay over other considerations.

[cadete]

3 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Just going off track a little bit, the whole region was quite violent even prior to the birth of the prophet. Since its history is better documented you can count the Hitites, the Egyptians, the Persians, the Babylonians, the Israelies (both versions), and the regular incursions from the Parthians (who ever they were) and then came the Greeks and so on. Of course once European civilisation developed you can then add even more violence. In a sense for Western countries the period post WW2 were the most peaceful their history. So I wonder whether the religious are just putting an over lay over other considerations.

Many historians do believe war is near inevitable for Human Civilisation, a fact I love to tell Vegetarians is that it has been observed that sometimes Chimpanzees will even get together and plan well organised attacks and raids to kill other groups of Chimps.

[thisphantomfortress]

UOTYH; Jordy Hurdes the kid who had a bad reaction to ecstacy has taken the wrong approach with his message. He's pushing a "say no to drugs its not worth the risk message." What he should be pushing is "holy shit prohabition has put me in this situation the government needs to reassess drug policy."

The only reason this kid had a bad reaction is because the drugs are made by criminals. If they were regulated and manufactured in a clean environment none of this would have happened.

The say no to drugs message is a load of shit people will always do them regardless of the risk. Make them legal, taxable and clean.

[hedaik]

23 hours ago, cadete said:

 sometimes Chimpanzees will even get together and plan well organised attacks and raids to kill other groups of Chimps.

Is that you Rebecca Wilson?

[cadete]

7 minutes ago, hedaik said:

Is that you Rebecca Wilson?

I think The Guardian is lefty enough...

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/jun/21/chimpanzees-territory-killing-neighbours

[hedaik]

14 minutes ago, cadete said:

I think The Guardian is lefty enough...

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/jun/21/chimpanzees-territory-killing-neighbours

Never doubted you, however I was relating the chimp vs chimp fighting to something Rebecca Wilson might say about some ALeague supporters.