wombegongal Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 With a small salary cap in place it is impossible to make a major difference to the strength of a squad by using money to obtain high quality players. One way a major difference can be made is with the marquee signings - assuming they are able to regularly play when they arrive and don't get major injuries. Maybe we will be signing seriously good marquees. Like an Australian marquee not being a returning Socceroo at the end of his career like a Bresciano, but a quality starting eleven Socceroo at the peak or nearing the peak of his playing ability. Similarly for an overseas marquee, getting a quality player whose career is not just about over. You've highlighted the problems with having money set aside that MUST be spent on ONE international marquee and ONE Australian marquee: what if they get injured, a likely scenario given that the marquee wages have pretty much always been spent on players at the end of their career. In the case of the Australian marquee its even more limiting because what if there is no Australian worthy of it, like other than Cahill, right now no-one is? I'd like to see a cap on the "marquee players allowance" of $2.5 million in addition to the squad salary cap. That $2.5 million can be distributed in anyway the club sits fit. Rather than spend it ONE player, spread it amongst 5 quality overseas or local players who might be getting on average an additional average $500k over an above their salary. That way you could get the spine of the team built on players each getting paid $500k to $1 million. I think there are plenty that are worth it. Rogic, Holman, Herd just to name a few. not easy to get sure but all gun players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 With a small salary cap in place it is impossible to make a major difference to the strength of a squad by using money to obtain high quality players. One way a major difference can be made is with the marquee signings - assuming they are able to regularly play when they arrive and don't get major injuries. Maybe we will be signing seriously good marquees. Like an Australian marquee not being a returning Socceroo at the end of his career like a Bresciano, but a quality starting eleven Socceroo at the peak or nearing the peak of his playing ability. Similarly for an overseas marquee, getting a quality player whose career is not just about over. You've highlighted the problems with having money set aside that MUST be spent on ONE international marquee and ONE Australian marquee: what if they get injured, a likely scenario given that the marquee wages have pretty much always been spent on players at the end of their career. In the case of the Australian marquee its even more limiting because what if there is no Australian worthy of it, like other than Cahill, right now no-one is? I'd like to see a cap on the "marquee players allowance" of $2.5 million in addition to the squad salary cap. That $2.5 million can be distributed in anyway the club sits fit. Rather than spend it ONE player, spread it amongst 5 quality overseas or local players who might be getting on average an additional average $500k over an above their salary. That way you could get the spine of the team built on players each getting paid $500k to $1 million. I like where you are going with this. Have been thinking to myself if I was making the decision there's only 3 Aussies worthy of that marquee status: Tim Cahill Robbie Kruse Tommy Rogic Kruse is my first choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 This thread is over 2 years old and 18 pages in, but I've just got to ask, WTF does 'the land of chronic' mean in the thread title? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandev Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Midfielder, I like: Valeri Carl 14/08/1984 29 Ternana Calcio Italy (2) Serie B Midfielder 1/3/14 Used sub. complete list of Aussies abroad here: http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/Abroad/2014-02.html Edited March 21, 2014 by Pandev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellum Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Valeri would be a good signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexxandro Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 This thread is over 2 years old and 18 pages in, but I've just got to ask, WTF does 'the land of chronic' mean in the thread title? chronic 1) very high-quality weed, generally with red hairs on it. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chronic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falastur Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 This thread is over 2 years old and 18 pages in, but I've just got to ask, WTF does 'the land of chronic' mean in the thread title? I'm glad that it wasn't me who had to ask that. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 This thread is over 2 years old and 18 pages in, but I've just got to ask, WTF does 'the land of chronic' mean in the thread title? chronic 1) very high-quality weed, generally with red hairs on it. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chronic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 This thread is over 2 years old and 18 pages in, but I've just got to ask, WTF does 'the land of chronic' mean in the thread title? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzqlCDPRxgA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexxandro Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 There was a conversation in one of the threads about how JVS seems too relaxed sometimes and prefers being sad to angry when Heart play poorly. I made a comment about how you don't hear "not good enough" from his lips. Just read this from Mike Mulvey about Brisbane's training performance this week... ""What we served up today and yesterday was not good enough. "And I will be letting the players know in no uncertain terms that that is not acceptable. "We were chasing rather than keeping the ball. "Everyone is playing for their spot for the finals." http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/news/1186540/Mulvey-unhappy-with-sub-standard-Roar I'm not looking to bash JVS just pointing out that I think he needs to get more mongrel in him. Hopefully with a better squad and higher expectations next year he will raise the bar in terms of what he will accept. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I agree that the test for JvS is yet to come. With Heart so far he's not been in a position where real pressure has been put on him to get results. With Manchester City hovering not too far in the background I can't see him being allowed so much latitude in the future, especially if we really do get talented youth players from City and a couple of marquees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewmac Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I don't have stats in front of me but has JVS won a game since he signed new contract ? If we served up this shit next season won't b there at Xmas , hopefully some decent players in will help him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silva10 Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I believe that you should all get behind JVS for next season. Of course the last few results have been disappointing, but I still think he is the right man for the job. Let's see what he can do with a full pre-season and hopefully several good signings. I am sure there is plenty of scope for improvement in the current players as well. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Well JVS will have better resources for the pre-season as well as a team that will be shaped by his selections. As far as his demeanour I am not bothered as I see it as a personal attribute and the way he relates to his players. I have worked with bosses that shouted and raged but the most deadly one was the one who never raised his voice and always seem to start from "I don't understand..." - when ever I heard that I would turn pale and feel all wobbly as I knew what was coming up next. Never met a man that could make you feel utterly useless and worthless with so few words and such restraint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I wonder whether we would have been wiser to wait until the end of our season before making a decision on our new coach? With the likes of Graham Arnold now available? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I wonder whether we would have been wiser to wait until the end of our season before making a decision on our new coach? With the likes of Graham Arnold now available? This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombegongal Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I wonder whether we would have been wiser to wait until the end of our season before making a decision on our new coach? With the likes of Graham Arnold now available? Not sure if serious. if I wanted to watch a team that sits back and kicks and hacks i would have signed up with Victory when merrick was coaching. Not saying he doesn't get results but his style of play is up there with Tony's WSW. In a word turgid. I think JVS has been sold well short. We have pretty much been in every game and in most dominated a half. If we had a couple of blokes that could put the ball in the net from basic chances (I'm looking at the front three) we would be ripping teams. Now I know people are going to bring up the 10 men episodes but big fucken deal the guy came in half way through the seasons with what many people on here have branded as close as you can come to an under 12's team at professional level. He deserves the chance to prove himself with the funds and backing that weren't provided to him previously. If he fail boats he will be out the door. I'm not sure how people make a negative out of everything around the club. Brighten up a shit season is done and there is PLENTY to look forward to for next year in my opinion. Not only from what we have seen since the change in coach but also the unknowns that Man City oil money brings. I say save the tears and let the speculation begin!!!! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresonlyonebzamora Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Wombegongal, I agree with most of your sentiments and I'm not pro-Arnold but he's delivered consistent results in the a-league with a small budget and at times with players even more ordinary than what we've had. As I think cadete has said before, attractive football hasn't got us far in four years. I'd almost ALMOST be willing to trade playing style for results but I'll give JVS another half a season to see what he can do with a more effective budget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silva10 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Wombegongal, I agree with most of your sentiments and I'm not pro-Arnold but he's delivered consistent results in the a-league with a small budget and at times with players even more ordinary than what we've had. As I think cadete has said before, attractive football hasn't got us far in four years. I'd almost ALMOST be willing to trade playing style for results but I'll give JVS another half a season to see what he can do with a more effective budget CFG will not trade playing style for results They have the belief that by playing a passing, attacking game the results will come This is why JVS has been appointed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malloy Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Wombegongal, I agree with most of your sentiments and I'm not pro-Arnold but he's delivered consistent results in the a-league with a small budget and at times with players even more ordinary than what we've had. As I think cadete has said before, attractive football hasn't got us far in four years. I'd almost ALMOST be willing to trade playing style for results but I'll give JVS another half a season to see what he can do with a more effective budget CFG will not trade playing style for results They have the belief that by playing a passing, attacking game the results will come This is why JVS has been appointed I agree that they wouldn't change the style of play. I do wish they had at least waited till the end of the season to appoint a manager. I am willing to give JVS a go as I think he will do better, but I am wary of the majority of the games we have played under him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepdog Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Wombegongal, I agree with most of your sentiments and I'm not pro-Arnold but he's delivered consistent results in the a-league with a small budget and at times with players even more ordinary than what we've had. As I think cadete has said before, attractive football hasn't got us far in four years. I'd almost ALMOST be willing to trade playing style for results but I'll give JVS another half a season to see what he can do with a more effective budget What's this "attractive football" you speak of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresonlyonebzamora Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Well that's it SD isn't it. That's been our ethos but it's hardly been attractive has it haha. Silva I agree and they shouldn't be expected to. Simply musing on the age old argument of a style and ethos vs results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 It was the right thing to appoint JVS as care taker. It was the wrong thing to appoint him for next (plus two) seasons. Mark my words, under JVS this club will win nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I don't have stats in front of me but has JVS won a game since he signed new contract ? If we served up this shit next season won't b there at Xmas , hopefully some decent players in will help him The owners farked up big time by appointing him and re-signing ANY players before the season's end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) It was the right thing to appoint JVS as care taker. It was the wrong thing to appoint him for next (plus two) seasons. Mark my words, under JVS this club will win nothing. Maybe, maybe not but we don't have the gormless board that we had before, if he doesn't meet their expectations he won't still be there in 2 years no matter how good his media profile Edited April 13, 2014 by belaguttman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 All JVS seems capable is getting the team to perform really well for a short period of time each Season his been at Heart. I know better players next Season will really help but our S1 squad was IMO easily a Finals squad and our S2 squad also had some very very good young players that should have seen play more than one final. I cant but think Arnold with better players than his economical lists at a lot of his time at CCM would be an ever better Manager than JVS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 JVS is a fine tactical coach. The big problem is the club culture and this needs both JVS and the club management to do some serious work to change. This problem has been there since season 1 and JVS was a part of the problem. Hopefully he and the new management will become a part of the solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 It was the right thing to appoint JVS as care taker. It was the wrong thing to appoint him for next (plus two) seasons. Mark my words, under JVS this club will win nothing. Words marked. I'll bring up this quote when you're proven wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR9 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 JVS is a fine tactical coach. The big problem is the club culture and this needs both JVS and the club management to do some serious work to change. This problem has been there since season 1 and JVS was a part of the problem. Hopefully he and the new management will become a part of the solutionThis, the culture has always been shocking within the club, almost solely because of the old regime.I reckon JVS is best in the league alongside Gombau.I also think it got to a point where finals where inconceivable and he looked to the future and couldn't give any fucks about the current season, looking to the future, playing Mauk, Garrucio, Archibald and starting Tando, which I think is a ploy to drive Redders to lift his game and build some fire in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 @ Murph. Once City took over, the players played with more passion. They were all playing for their contracts, some their careers. And don't under-estimate a fit Engelaar a fit Kewell and fit Germano (that Aloisi didn't have) Then City offers them contracts after a few wins, and its the same old same old. As a coach in this league his record is poor. As a coach elsewhere its at least as bad or worse. I won't mind if I'm proven wrong but as Bela has said there are serious mental issues at this club. JVS is part of that history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) JVS is a fine tactical coach. The big problem is the club culture and this needs both JVS and the club management to do some serious work to change. This problem has been there since season 1 and JVS was a part of the problem. Hopefully he and the new management will become a part of the solution This, the culture has always been shocking within the club, almost solely because of the old regime. I reckon JVS is best in the league alongside Gombau. I also think it got to a point where finals where inconceivable and he looked to the future and couldn't give any fucks about the current season, looking to the future, playing Mauk, Garrucio, Archibald and starting Tando, which I think is a ploy to drive Redders to lift his game and build some fire in him. Which he is a part of. Oh and as soon as he stopped giving a fuck so did the players. Edited April 13, 2014 by Kiro Kompiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR9 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 JVS is a fine tactical coach. The big problem is the club culture and this needs both JVS and the club management to do some serious work to change. This problem has been there since season 1 and JVS was a part of the problem. Hopefully he and the new management will become a part of the solutionThis, the culture has always been shocking within the club, almost solely because of the old regime.I reckon JVS is best in the league alongside Gombau.I also think it got to a point where finals where inconceivable and he looked to the future and couldn't give any fucks about the current season, looking to the future, playing Mauk, Garrucio, Archibald and starting Tando, which I think is a ploy to drive Redders to lift his game and build some fire in him.Which he is a part of. Oh and as soon as he stopped giving a fuck so did the players.Chairman, board, stake holders, decision makers.The football department's always been in pretty good shape, despite its limitations and destitution.We still played good football, but he just didn't care about putting his best 11 out and 3 points didn't matter at was all about planning for next season.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 @ Kiro I won't rehash the details again (I go into JVS' positive influence this season in detail in the 2014/15 season thread). But you're overlooking the fact the JVS did drop players like Kisnorbo and Williams to motivate them to play better (and I believe he did the same thing with Redmayne over the last 3 games). Also, his man management with Dugandzic has been excellent, with Duga notching 4 goals and 6 assists under JVS this season. And I agree that JVS did look towards the future over the recent games, giving game time to the likes of Mauk and Garuccio (clearly looking to the future by playing him in LB, as Behich won't be around next season). At the end of the day the squad just had serious structural weaknesses, not least a serious lack of firepower (with the team having 0 strikers, and hence relying on the likes of Ramsay, Williams and Dugandzic for goals) and an unbalanced and soft defence. You can't put Dugandzic's and Williams' misses on JVS. Heart have been creating more chances and better chances since JVS took over (the last derby was especially memorable profligate finishing), but a serious inability to finish was always going to prevent the team from climbing out of the hole Aloisi put them in. So my money is on you being proven wrong, as I'm of the opinion that JVS will guide the club to silverware. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moops Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Wombegongal, I agree with most of your sentiments and I'm not pro-Arnold but he's delivered consistent results in the a-league with a small budget and at times with players even more ordinary than what we've had. As I think cadete has said before, attractive football hasn't got us far in four years. I'd almost ALMOST be willing to trade playing style for results but I'll give JVS another half a season to see what he can do with a more effective budget CFG will not trade playing style for results They have the belief that by playing a passing, attacking game the results will come This is why JVS has been appointed I agree that they wouldn't change the style of play. I do wish they had at least waited till the end of the season to appoint a manager. I am willing to give JVS a go as I think he will do better, but I am wary of the majority of the games we have played under him Thank god silva10, I think Arnold took a few too many leaves from Pim Verbeeks book when he was assistant to him. Though he does have some positives in building club culture and youth, even still I am happy with JVS. I think I can see what JVS wants, though so far he has had little time to implement change. In fact I think he would like to play like Bielsa, press in central midfield, counter between the midfield and forward lines if posible (fast), if not, be patient with the build up. Though it puzzles me when the team sit back, or presses high up the park sometimes, either inviting pressure with no outlet, or pressing high up without the whole team moving up creating space in midfield for the oposition, or making short passes (in bp transition) unlikely. Remember JVS had to hit the ground running, whilst trying to get the team to play a cirtain way after JA's influence, I think some time in England, better support and a preseason under his belt, JVS will do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 The pressure to deliver will be there, CFG will set realistic goals each season and provide resources to achieve them.. Otherwise they will take a long hard look at everyone involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestr Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 The pressure to deliver will be there, CFG will set realistic goals each season and provide resources to achieve them.. Otherwise they will take a long hard look at everyone involved Coach is not under the salary cap, he can be dismissed and paid out if his performance is deemed under par Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Not that CFG enjoy sacking people.. Despite fans demanding it at times No, they got their "end of season evaluations" that probably involves "benchmarking performance metrics" at some point. In other words, you´d better win some games JvS or they might decide that you are "unable to take this club any further" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexxandro Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Winning some away games would be a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandev Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 what is the man up to thesee days? is he in manchester? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13 Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 He´s in Manchester enjoying life, talking to footy people, watching training sessions and in general getting to know everyone.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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