HEARTinator Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Hellenic Hero said: Work is shit today. Been given crap by about 11 Victory fans. Tell them to fcukorf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heart of Melbourne Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 I copped it yesterday and it continues today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 1 hour ago, n i k o said: Yep it's that. Its also that the tards are above us with a game in hand. That fuckwit Aloisi and Brisbane is above us as well and Sydney smashed Perth and put more of a gap between us and them. We have 16 matches left, 7 at home, 9 away. The intensity that won us the away Derby, the semi-final and the final of the Cup hasn't been there since the Cup win. IMO we won't catch Sydney, and we will finish at best 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn Asunder Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) tard supporters are poor losers and even poorer winners Edited December 19, 2016 by Torn Asunder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 52 minutes ago, Heart of Melbourne said: I copped it yesterday and it continues today. Poor things they have a whole year of pent up frustration having to skulk around the office avoiding you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 24 minutes ago, belaguttman said: Poor things they have a whole year of pent up frustration having to skulk around the office avoiding you Was that you in the back of active in the St Pauli jacket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 20 minutes ago, Shahanga said: Was that you in the back of active in the St Pauli jacket? Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japiedog Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 after reading all the posts, it looks like I was lucky to have missed this match by all accounts we should have / could have lost 3-1 / 4-1 another season of high hopes dashed into a scrape into the top 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasputin Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) Goal scoring opportunities have completely dried up. No one has stepped up in Mooys absence. In addition Bruno has had to play upfield more to help out. Double wammy. Also why does JVS persist with Rose? If he has to play one of rose or manny then manny by a mile. Kamau and Brattan have been very poor lately. The only players that look likely are bruno and brandan. Timmy is quite ineffective besides his occasional aerial threat. Why isn't Colazo left wing or left back? JVS not up to it unfortunately Edited December 19, 2016 by Rasputin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 We have easily the best header in the league and 2 gun wingers. A non Dutch coach would play them on their normal sides and get them to whip balls in to Cahill as striker with Bruno causing havoc as a #10. Opponents would have nightmares 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fensaddler Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, Shahanga said: We have easily the best header in the league and 2 gun wingers. A non Dutch coach would play them on their normal sides and get them to whip balls in to Cahill as striker with Bruno causing havoc as a #10. Opponents would have nightmares Classic British tactics! Big target man, small, nippy striker alongside, wingers on either side knocking crosses in. Jumpers for goalposts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, fensaddler said: Jumpers for goalposts. Marvellous! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Interestingly enough someone on 442 posted that of the 4 highest possession teams in the league we are the only ones in the top 4. The other 3 highest possession teams are bottom of the ladder. The second half on Saturday shows how in this league even with the players we have it's difficult to break down teams with a lot of possession. Add to that the shit cunt of a coach we have and getting good results is just never going to work on a consistent basis with this style of play. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, n i k o said: Interestingly enough someone on 442 posted that of the 4 highest possession teams in the league we are the only ones in the top 4. The other 3 highest possession teams are bottom of the ladder. The second half on Saturday shows how in this league even with the players we have it's difficult to break down teams with a lot of possession. Add to that the shit cunt of a coach we have and getting good results is just never going to work on a consistent basis with this style of play. You really need a good number 10 to break down an organised defence. We were part of the way there last season with Mooy but we really don't have a traditional number 10 at all now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 41 minutes ago, n i k o said: Interestingly enough someone on 442 posted that of the 4 highest possession teams in the league we are the only ones in the top 4. The other 3 highest possession teams are bottom of the ladder. The second half on Saturday shows how in this league even with the players we have it's difficult to break down teams with a lot of possession. Add to that the shit cunt of a coach we have and getting good results is just never going to work on a consistent basis with this style of play. For me the issue is not the possession that a team has, it's what they are doing with it. Much of our possession is sterile - passing sideways and backwards. Christ, we were doing this with 5 minutes to go, as if we were a goal up rather than a goal down. In contrast Victory were going from their penalty area to ours in 2-3 quick accurate passes and getting in behind our defence with monotonous regularity. We are not going to break teams down with the football we are playing - we take so long to move the ball forward that all we are doing is giving the opposition defence aerobic recovery time. In most circumstances possession is almost a meaningless statistic - what counts is efficiency with the ball. So I agree with you - our style of play is very unlikely to give results consistently enough to win the league competition. Another point I noticed was the completely different way the two teams warmed up. Ours was mainly a whole lot of pussy-footing dance steps, theirs repeated practice of the 1-2 pass and then thrashing the ball into the net. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jw1739 said: For me the issue is not the possession that a team has, it's what they are doing with it. Much of our possession is sterile - passing sideways and backwards. Christ, we were doing this with 5 minutes to go, as if we were a goal up rather than a goal down. In contrast Victory were going from their penalty area to ours in 2-3 quick accurate passes and getting in behind our defence with monotonous regularity. We are not going to break teams down with the football we are playing - we take so long to move the ball forward that all we are doing is giving the opposition defence aerobic recovery time. In most circumstances possession is almost a meaningless statistic - what counts is efficiency with the ball. So I agree with you - our style of play is very unlikely to give results consistently enough to win the league competition. Another point I noticed was the completely different way the two teams warmed up. Ours was mainly a whole lot of pussy-footing dance steps, theirs repeated practice of the 1-2 pass and then thrashing the ball into the net. Yes they move the ball quickly and I believe this is one of the last remaining remnants of the Ange era at victree. Edited December 19, 2016 by n i k o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 46 minutes ago, n i k o said: Interestingly enough someone on 442 posted that of the 4 highest possession teams in the league we are the only ones in the top 4. The other 3 highest possession teams are bottom of the ladder. The second half on Saturday shows how in this league even with the players we have it's difficult to break down teams with a lot of possession. Add to that the shit cunt of a coach we have and getting good results is just never going to work on a consistent basis with this style of play. This also confirms the discussion last season about possession being a false indicator of team success. From what the numbers showed there was a clear correlation between high possession and failure to win in this league and many of the lower skilled leagues around the world. This was due to the higher errors in possession together with a high press leading to vulnerabilities on the counter attack. Now put that into context with JVS's stupid defensive structure of playing 1 CB and you have a major problem. One thing that baffles me is that pre-match JVS was actually saying that the tards are very strong on the counter with they have talented runners and yet he went into the game with no regard for this. He also went to the point that he made our mids overlap out wide to further weaken our centre defensive potential. The guy is an imbecile. And at no point in the game did he change anything to even address the issues. 55 minutes ago, belaguttman said: You really need a good number 10 to break down an organised defence. We were part of the way there last season with Mooy but we really don't have a traditional number 10 at all now Not necessarily, we have a great counter attacking squad with high quality wingers a target man and a quick thinking goal scorer. Better than any other team in the A league by far, and we also have Caceres who is a capable No 10 if we need, but if the ball is distributed correctly from our CMs to our wingers on the counter, we have very capable front 4 to create match winning opportunities. JVS is just playing it all wrong in regards to structure, tactics and playing players in their wrong positions. It's just all wrong. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 I agree with 'not necessarily' if we want to play counter-attack football but given the avowed playing style we aim for a good number 10 is essential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEARTinator Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, n i k o said: Yes they move the ball quickly and I believe this is one of the last remaining remnants of the Ange era at victree. Victree have played the fast direct play since the days of Merrick. In his playing days it was Muscrat organising the defence pushing a quick ball to Fred and then onto AT. It was Ange at the Roar who decided that holding the ball for eternity was the way to go but he had a good squad and the Albanian to finish off. 'playmaker' has it pretty right as do many posters here. JVS is a coaching imbecile and Muscrat exploited our weaknesses without too much trouble. Edited December 19, 2016 by HEARTinator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSeater Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) The thing that so many people seem to fail to grasp is that possession football only works in teams that suit the style. The reason Barcelona was so dominant with tiki-taka for so long was because they had 11 of the best footballers in the world out on the pitch doing it. To play a possession style game and actually get the most out of it you need players with enormous technical ability. You need players who, even though it seems are just passing around aimlessly, are at all times being extremely deliberate with every touch and pass they make as they know what's going to happen 5 passes later. Whilst we do have some great players in our team, we don't have Xavi, Iniesta or Messi. I understand that CFG want to play the "City way" (which is the Barcelona way but with more sky blue), but the fact of the matter is that these tactics do not have the same effect when employed by teams with less technical ability than the best clubs in the world. JVS, CFG or whoever else is picking the tactics need to realise this and adjust our gameplan accordingly. EDIT: When I say so many people fail to grasp this I don't mean other posters in this thread I mean managers of lower league teams who try to pull off tiki-taka Edited December 19, 2016 by GreenSeater 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, GreenSeater said: The thing that so many people seem to fail to grasp is that possession football only works in teams that suit the style. The reason Barcelona was so dominant with tiki-taka for so long was because they had 11 of the best footballers in the world out on the pitch doing it. To play a possession style game and actually get the most out of it you need players with enormous technical ability. You need players who, even though it seems are just passing around aimlessly, are at all times being extremely deliberate with every touch and pass they make as they know what's going to happen 5 passes later. Whilst we do have some great players in our team, we don't have Xavi, Iniesta or Messi. I understand that CFG want to play the "City way" (which is the Barcelona way but with more sky blue), but the fact of the matter is that these tactics do not have the same effect when employed by teams with less technical ability than the best clubs in the world. JVS, CFG or whoever else is picking the tactics need to realise this and adjust our gameplan accordingly. Exactly, At the lower skilled leagues it's all about minimising your team's errors in critical areas and being ready to defend against the counter when the error occurs, and they will occur many many many times more in a high possession tactic than a counter attacking type tactic, why? Because you have less of the ball, which therefore gives the opponents more of the ball which inturn increases the total errors they make, which inturn creates more counterattaking opportunities for your team. But aside from this, I don't see Barca or Man City playing with one CB. JVS is a moron. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffplz Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 On 18/12/2016 at 11:06 PM, Tarafu said: anyone know what that banner was at level 3 at full time? https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/victoria/omar-moujalled-dies-of-thunderstorm-asthma-just-days-after-finishing-year-12-exams-20161122-gsv9md.html?client=safari ITT: people finally discovering that JVS is a shit cunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestr Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 A lot of ppl were extremely positive about Brattan and many claimed he is superior to mooy. Im sorry but the only superior aspect is his goldylock hair. He doesn't measure up to silky skills and classy crosses Mooy was providing last season We are definitely missing him. I'm getting really uncomfortable about lack of chemistry between our forward line. Timmy Bruno and Brattan and not only not clicking together, there seem to be less cohesion between them as we get deeper into the season wtf is jvs doing about it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) Just for those interested. Possession stats are as follows: All games this season. 5 wins average of 56% possession 3 draws average of 56% possession 3 losses average of 61% possession If you exclude th 63% possession that we had in our Newcastle win, then in the 4 wins we had an average of 54% possession. In our losses to Perth, Brisbane, and Victory we had possession % of 63, 61, and 60 respectively. Another interesting observation was that in the games we conceded goals, 70% of those came after the 60th min. (7/10), 2/3 in our losses and 2/3 in our drawn games. Are we getting too tired to defend? This high pressing high possession game plan maybe causing an increase in critical errors in possession later in the game and then we fail to organise to defend. Maybe JVS should try a substitution or two? Food for thought anyway. Edited December 20, 2016 by playmaker 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melby Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) Wow atrocious performance all round. Our best player was Bouzanis and he certainly didn't have the best game. Defence: How are people raving about Tongyik after this performance? Rose, Tongyik and Muscat were equally bad and if any had to be selected as worst I would even say Tongyik was poorest being central. All of their clear chances came straight through the middle, being 1v1s. Berisha missed atleast 3 1v1 opportunities and most were Tongyik positioning allowing it. He was at fault for both goals. Poor defensive header(s) for first and then second he got rolled by Berisha on edge of box before losing him for a tap in. Offside or not it was very tight and they shouldn't have a tap in when we were so deep already, it's not like a ball was played over the top and we had a high line. Rose and Franjic equally poor. Offered nothing offensively or defensively. To be fair to all 3 selection of a back 3 was always going to be an uphill battle especially with these 3. Furthermore where is Chapman? I don't understand why he wasn't/hasn't been selected? From memory he has been involved in 3 wins and 2 draws when he has played and hasn't been at fault for any goals or played poorly in any aleague games I can think of? I think this has to do with the influence of Valkanis potentially and the Tongyik/Valkanis link otherwise I can't understand why they're doing it unless Chapman has an overseas offer for January so they are blooding Tongyik? Midfield: Kilkenny and Brattan are actually our weakness currently. Both players just constantly roam anywhere and everywhere and run into other players positions. Kilkenny always dropping into CB which puts the defensive structure out and then when we lose the ball is always stuck in between a CB and CDM position. Brattan can commonly be found crossing the ball on the right, but then he is doing the opposite of what he should be doing by dragging defenders wide. What he should be doing is early passes to the winger to allow him to isolate the defender and run at him 1v1. Why is Brattan a CDM stuck crossing balls wide? I cannot recall 1 time this season i've seen brattan pick the ball up in the opposition attacking third centrally and running at the defence. I don't even blame these two for the drop in form, it's completely down to team selection and strategy. Colazo offered little to nothing in a central midfield role during this game. Attack: Look tired. Look tired of our system and formation. Lack belief in current setup. Constantly have teammates running into their zones and bringing defenders. They all look as though they are lacking some sharpness and I think that comes down to a lack of confidence/belief. We are overloading attacking areas to a detrimental effect. We are not Barcelona and have unlimited pace and skill so can break down deep lying teams and overload the attacking third. Bruno/ Cahill combination not working. Cahill is a big moment player and that is about it at this stage of his career. He can have big moments in critical games but besides that he offers near nothing during the rest of the game besides an aerial option. Play him off the bench and allow Bruno the freedom and space to run at defenders again and isolate defenders. Brandon tried but cannot be expected to be involved in assists and goals every game. Kamau needs to have more input. For the confidence the coaches have put in him so far I don't think he has rewarded them in enough goals/assists to date. First 10 games we came out of the blocks flying. We had a new formation that was adventurous and teams didn't know how to cope, thats changed. A lot of other teams bar Sydney FC were poor and looked as though they were not yet sharp. Now other teams have caught up and are starting to pick up sharpness when it matters and we are still trying to reinvent the wheel when we need to go back to basics. Squad for Perth should be IMO(if Malik and Jacobson are still injured): Bouzanis Franjic Chapman Tongyik Muscat Brattan Kilkenny Colazo Caceras Brandan Fornaroli Bench- Kamau, Fitzgerald, Retre, Cahill. Edited December 20, 2016 by melby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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