Bruno Fornaroli - "El Tuna"

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, Mr MO said:

I also believe he’s played his match but we can we draw that conclusion out of Bruno taking his family down to the great ocean road over the Christmas period?

I thought they were training last week and today?

[HughJass]

5 hours ago, Mr MO said:

Bruno taking his family down to the great ocean road over the Christmas period?

I thought Bart was down there as well according to his Instagram stories from around that time 

[SF33]

Love Bruno and appreciate everything that he's done since joining us and the club has certainly handled this poorly, but if the stories about him wanting to join Sydney in the offseason are true, geez I'm probably more on the City side than the Bruno side. There would need to be some pretty compelling circumstances to just let your marquee visa player (under contract) walk to a rival A-League club, let alone the benchmark for most of the time that he's been here. I wouldn't let him go either. If that made his position at the club and relationship with Joyce untenable, so be it.

Like I said, the club's not blameless. If this is what's happened, they should have  read how it was going to play out and resolved it before now, but I'm pretty far from OK with Bruno looking for an early out on his contract to join Sydney, of all places, a club that's been embarrassing us on the pitch ever since our FFA Cup win, in spite of our teams being pretty even (in my opinion) on paper over that period. A player in Bruno's shoes should want to supplant Sydney, not bloody join them.

[AntiScum]

25 minutes ago, SF33 said:

Love Bruno and appreciate everything that he's done since joining us and the club has certainly handled this poorly, but if the stories about him wanting to join Sydney in the offseason are true, geez I'm probably more on the City side than the Bruno side. There would need to be some pretty compelling circumstances to just let your marquee visa player (under contract) walk to a rival A-League club, let alone the benchmark for most of the time that he's been here. I wouldn't let him go either. If that made his position at the club and relationship with Joyce untenable, so be it.

Like I said, the club's not blameless. If this is what's happened, they should have  read how it was going to play out and resolved it before now, but I'm pretty far from OK with Bruno looking for an early out on his contract to join Sydney, of all places, a club that's been embarrassing us on the pitch ever since our FFA Cup win, in spite of our teams being pretty even (in my opinion) on paper over that period. A player in Bruno's shoes should want to supplant Sydney, not bloody join them.

Absolute load of crap!!

Players get linked to other clubs all the time so for that to come up is no surprise!! He gave his all in the first lot of games he played and the joy when he scored showed his passion for the club and game. The club is an absolute joke for the way they have handled this.

Joyce ruins careers so i hope he will find a club that will appreciate him!!

[jw1739]

6 minutes ago, AntiScum said:

Players get linked to other clubs all the time so for that to come up is no surprise!! He gave his all in the first lot of games he played and the joy when he scored showed his passion for the club and game. The club is an absolute joke for the way they have handled this.

I have to agree with this. Nevertheless, there are always (at least) two parties involved in any dispute, so I assume that Bruno does have at least some small part in this sorry saga.  However, IMO the club has conducted itself very poorly indeed throughout. Quite apart from remaining silent other than ambiguous statements from Joyce, to censor a club player's image on the big screen at AAMI Park during a match is the lowest of the low, and I never thought I would witness such a thing in Australia. That more than anything has changed my opinion of both local club management and City Football Group.

[SF33]

28 minutes ago, AntiScum said:

Absolute load of crap!!

Players get linked to other clubs all the time so for that to come up is no surprise!! He gave his all in the first lot of games he played and the joy when he scored showed his passion for the club and game. The club is an absolute joke for the way they have handled this.

Joyce ruins careers so i hope he will find a club that will appreciate him!!

The story that has been doing the rounds is a bit more than he was linked to Sydney; it's that he wanted an early release from his contract to go to a major rival. And without knowing the specifics, I'd suggest that it would be for a longer term (somewhat acceptable) or to go to a more successful club (less acceptable).

As I posted, I respect Bruno and (at the risk of damning him with faint praise) being one of the biggest reasons that we've transformed from a 'propping up the table' level disappointment to a 'first two weeks of the finals exit' level disappointment. At the very least, Melbourne City is a team that can beat anyone anywhere on its day and Bruno has probably been our most visible player during that time.

There's clubs all over the world. For someone we'd consider a required player, if he wanted to head to the middle east, Europe, a bigger league in China or South America on a more lucrative deal, I'd begrudgingly let him go. If he wants to go to an A-League club, let alone probably our second biggest rival, there'd have to be a really good reason not to refuse. It happens all the time with disgruntled players in all sports "Yeah, OK, we'll do what we can to move you on, but we're not trading you to a divisional rival".

Edited January 1, 2019 by SF33

[Heart of Melbourne]

7 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I have to agree with this. Nevertheless, there are always (at least) two parties involved in any dispute, so I assume that Bruno does have at least some small part in this sorry saga.  However, IMO the club has conducted itself very poorly indeed throughout. Quite apart from remaining silent other than ambiguous statements from Joyce, to censor a club player's image on the big screen at AAMI Park during a match is the lowest of the low, and I never thought I would witness such a thing in Australia. That more than anything has changed my opinion of both local club management and City Football Group.

100% agree with JW

[SF33]

7 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I have to agree with this. Nevertheless, there are always (at least) two parties involved in any dispute, so I assume that Bruno does have at least some small part in this sorry saga.  However, IMO the club has conducted itself very poorly indeed throughout. Quite apart from remaining silent other than ambiguous statements from Joyce, to censor a club player's image on the big screen at AAMI Park during a match is the lowest of the low, and I never thought I would witness such a thing in Australia. That more than anything has changed my opinion of both local club management and City Football Group.

Agree with the lack of clarity being poor form and didn't know about his image being censored at the game. That's disgraceful, no question, an absolute insult to our greatest ever player (in my opinion).

I still don't think it changes the fact that if the story that I've read is accurate (Bruno wanted an early release from his contract for a move to Sydney, City refused) that it's very hard to keep a player motivated and the coach/player relationship to remain professional when there's dozens of clubs around the world who'd be happy to sign him. I think as soon as a required player wants to sign with a rival, that's - at best - the beginning of the end of the player's tenure at the club.

[jw1739]

44 minutes ago, SF33 said:

Agree with the lack of clarity being poor form and didn't know about his image being censored at the game. That's disgraceful, no question, an absolute insult to our greatest ever player (in my opinion).

I still don't think it changes the fact that if the story that I've read is accurate (Bruno wanted an early release from his contract for a move to Sydney, City refused) that it's very hard to keep a player motivated and the coach/player relationship to remain professional when there's dozens of clubs around the world who'd be happy to sign him. I think as soon as a required player wants to sign with a rival, that's - at best - the beginning of the end of the player's tenure at the club.

IMO that's a very big "if" in your second paragraph. I agree, if confirmed it would alter my opinion a little. But I also cannot get out of my mind that Joyce "has form" with this sort of player stand-off - namely Neil Kilkenny.

[AntiScum]

1 hour ago, SF33 said:

The story that has been doing the rounds is a bit more than he was linked to Sydney; it's that he wanted an early release from his contract to go to a major rival. And without knowing the specifics, I'd suggest that it would be for a longer term (somewhat acceptable) or to go to a more successful club (less acceptable).

As I posted, I respect Bruno and (at the risk of damning him with faint praise) being one of the biggest reasons that we've transformed from a 'propping up the table' level disappointment to a 'first two weeks of the finals exit' level disappointment. At the very least, Melbourne City is a team that can beat anyone anywhere on its day and Bruno has probably been our most visible player during that time.

There's clubs all over the world. For someone we'd consider a required player, if he wanted to head to the middle east, Europe, a bigger league in China or South America on a more lucrative deal, I'd begrudgingly let him go. If he wants to go to an A-League club, let alone probably our second biggest rival, there'd have to be a really good reason not to refuse. It happens all the time with disgruntled players in all sports "Yeah, OK, we'll do what we can to move you on, but we're not trading you to a divisional rival".

How can you take yourself seriously with "the story doing the rounds"? The clubs blurred out his image in games, run their mouths off in public and Bruno cant come out and defend himself? His been professional and trained/kept his mouth shut and is ready for game time yet his been frozen out a wanker of coach who not only has form in runing players, but has been sacked overseas for idiotic im an Ex Man U coach im invincible ways.

[AntiScum]

1 hour ago, SF33 said:

Agree with the lack of clarity being poor form and didn't know about his image being censored at the game. That's disgraceful, no question, an absolute insult to our greatest ever player (in my opinion).

I still don't think it changes the fact that if the story that I've read is accurate (Bruno wanted an early release from his contract for a move to Sydney, City refused) that it's very hard to keep a player motivated and the coach/player relationship to remain professional when there's dozens of clubs around the world who'd be happy to sign him. I think as soon as a required player wants to sign with a rival, that's - at best - the beginning of the end of the player's tenure at the club.

By the sounds of things Bruno not only excepted the fact it was refused but carried on playing throughout the preseason and worked his arse off to get his first goal after injury!! His celebration after scoring said it all for me!! And not only that players have came out and backed Bruno in an "indirect" way. Joyce is a wanker and needs to go before Bruno does!!

[SF33]

18 minutes ago, AntiScum said:

How can you take yourself seriously with "the story doing the rounds"? The clubs blurred out his image in games, run their mouths off in public and Bruno cant come out and defend himself? His been professional and trained/kept his mouth shut and is ready for game time yet his been frozen out a wanker of coach who not only has form in runing players, but has been sacked overseas for idiotic im an Ex Man U coach im invincible ways.

Because it's not just a 'story doing the rounds', it's not just whispers on a forum like this; it's articles from sources like News Limited, The Guardian, Fairfax...

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/city-turmoil-protest-threats-criticism-grow-20181130-p50jhw.html

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/01/bruno-fornaroli-uproar-prompts-unlikely-crisis-at-melbourne-city

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/melbourne-city-fans-plan-protests-after-bruno-fornaroli-was-dropped-for-a-second-week-running/news-story/e5503475dccd8eb85ef35266c4407941

It's also the only scenario that I've heard that makes sense to me. The alternative is that he missed his fitness benchmarks before the Brisbane game, was dropped and refused to travel for the game (or a combination of the two). The failed skinfolds/refusal to fly dummy spit is also plausible, but certainly not something that would keep him out of the side for more than a month, if (as by all reports) he's come back to training. 

I'd argue that the club has done the precise opposite of running their mouths off in public...isn't the whole fan revolt about a lack of transparency with this situation?

Kilkenny, Brandan, Cahill...all were (rightly or wrongly) not considered to be required players. Fornaroli pretty clearly is. This is a different situation.

[AntiScum]

1 hour ago, SF33 said:

Because it's not just a 'story doing the rounds', it's not just whispers on a forum like this; it's articles from sources like News Limited, The Guardian, Fairfax...

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/city-turmoil-protest-threats-criticism-grow-20181130-p50jhw.html

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/01/bruno-fornaroli-uproar-prompts-unlikely-crisis-at-melbourne-city

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/melbourne-city-fans-plan-protests-after-bruno-fornaroli-was-dropped-for-a-second-week-running/news-story/e5503475dccd8eb85ef35266c4407941

It's also the only scenario that I've heard that makes sense to me. The alternative is that he missed his fitness benchmarks before the Brisbane game, was dropped and refused to travel for the game (or a combination of the two). The failed skinfolds/refusal to fly dummy spit is also plausible, but certainly not something that would keep him out of the side for more than a month, if (as by all reports) he's come back to training. 

I'd argue that the club has done the precise opposite of running their mouths off in public...isn't the whole fan revolt about a lack of transparency with this situation?

Kilkenny, Brandan, Cahill...all were (rightly or wrongly) not considered to be required players. Fornaroli pretty clearly is. This is a different situation.

Media Speculation without a firm quote from a reliable source other than Bolton who no longer has anything to do with the club anymore.

All those players are international players who have played at international level so everyone who has an opinion that doesnt get agreed upon with Joyce gets banished!! Makes sense.

Dont forget  Budzinski, Jakobsen and anyone else who has got in Joyce`s ways.

Jump on the UK boards and ask about Joyce and see what has to be said. I`ve not long come back from the UK and asked around in Manchester about his time and what was said wasnt pleasant.

 

I'd argue that the club has done the precise opposite of running their mouths off in public...isn't the whole fan revolt about a lack of transparency with this situation?

Not sure if you`ve heard the press conferences of Joyce taking a swipe at Bruno or players coming to the defence of Bruno or the Blurring of Brunos images on match day.

 

[AntiScum]

2 hours ago, SF33 said:

Because it's not just a 'story doing the rounds', it's not just whispers on a forum like this; it's articles from sources like News Limited, The Guardian, Fairfax...

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/city-turmoil-protest-threats-criticism-grow-20181130-p50jhw.html

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/01/bruno-fornaroli-uproar-prompts-unlikely-crisis-at-melbourne-city

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/melbourne-city-fans-plan-protests-after-bruno-fornaroli-was-dropped-for-a-second-week-running/news-story/e5503475dccd8eb85ef35266c4407941

It's also the only scenario that I've heard that makes sense to me. The alternative is that he missed his fitness benchmarks before the Brisbane game, was dropped and refused to travel for the game (or a combination of the two). The failed skinfolds/refusal to fly dummy spit is also plausible, but certainly not something that would keep him out of the side for more than a month, if (as by all reports) he's come back to training. 

I'd argue that the club has done the precise opposite of running their mouths off in public...isn't the whole fan revolt about a lack of transparency with this situation?

Kilkenny, Brandan, Cahill...all were (rightly or wrongly) not considered to be required players. Fornaroli pretty clearly is. This is a different situation.

So if the Media fed you a bowl of shite sprinkled with milo you`d happily eat it?

Edited January 1, 2019 by AntiScum

[Torn Asunder]

Clearly something came to a head following the Nix game after he scored.

i reckon it’s as simple as Joyce calling out Bruno on.his fitness, Bruno cracking it over this and feeling disrespected (as even if he did put on a few kgs, he knows himself that his efforts and dedication are 100%, regardless of what sports science says), Bruno having a go at Joyce, then dummy spits and stubbornness all round. 

Bruno then showing Joyce at training what a pissweak effort really is, and Joyce not having the right type of man management skills to recover the situation, and Bruno thinking he can easily get a contract elsewhere.

Also, to prove his point, Bruno’s management probably leaked the SFC thing after things went pear shaped.

Jamo hinted at this when he said surely they could all sit down and work it out.

Wont happen though, unless Bruno decides to lose face and apologise, because CFG will back the manager and the club over the player

Edited January 1, 2019 by Torn Asunder

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, SF33 said:

Because it's not just a 'story doing the rounds', it's not just whispers on a forum like this; it's articles from sources like News Limited, The Guardian, Fairfax...

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/city-turmoil-protest-threats-criticism-grow-20181130-p50jhw.html

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/01/bruno-fornaroli-uproar-prompts-unlikely-crisis-at-melbourne-city

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/melbourne-city-fans-plan-protests-after-bruno-fornaroli-was-dropped-for-a-second-week-running/news-story/e5503475dccd8eb85ef35266c4407941

It's also the only scenario that I've heard that makes sense to me. The alternative is that he missed his fitness benchmarks before the Brisbane game, was dropped and refused to travel for the game (or a combination of the two). The failed skinfolds/refusal to fly dummy spit is also plausible, but certainly not something that would keep him out of the side for more than a month, if (as by all reports) he's come back to training. 

I'd argue that the club has done the precise opposite of running their mouths off in public...isn't the whole fan revolt about a lack of transparency with this situation?

Kilkenny, Brandan, Cahill...all were (rightly or wrongly) not considered to be required players. Fornaroli pretty clearly is. This is a different situation.

With respect, I don't think the authors of any of those media articles have/had any more information than those of us on the Forum. Also, I don't think anyone ever said that Kilkenny, Brandan or Cahill "were not required players."

To some extent I regard Tim Cahill as a special case. He aired his grievance in public, and you just don't do that with your employer; if you do it's almost certain that you will be the loser. However, let's look at all the senior players who have left or known to have issues with Joyce during his regime so far:

Neil Kilkenny - Player of the Year 2016-17, Supporters' Player of the Year 2016-17.
Fernando Brandan - visa player (Argentina)
Tim Cahill - Club Captain 2017-18
Michael Jakobsen - Team Captain 2017-18, visa player (Denmark)
Marcin Budzinski - marquee visa player (Poland)
Now we have Bruno Fornaroli - marquee visa player (Uruguay)

To me, the likely root cause of it all is the way Joyce conducts himself as a manager.

[n i k o]

Only way I could take the clubs side is if Bruno tried to arrange a move to Sydney for money without the club knowing. 

[AntiScum]

26 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Only way I could take the clubs side is if Bruno tried to arrange a move to Sydney for money without the club knowing. 

My theory is that Bruno's management asked for a contract extension, city said well wait till the end of the year. Bruno's manager said we're not waiting and shopped him around. 

City cracked the shits, and fukd over Bruno to be an evil little monster for looking after his own best interests. 

I find this skin fold crap an absolute joke. The guy scores for fun. He was coming back from a serious injury, what the hell do they expect. 

[xXCiTyZeNXx]

Bruno and Wales up forward. Make it happen

[SF33]

3 hours ago, AntiScum said:

So if the Media fed you a bowl of shite sprinkled with milo you`d happily eat it?

I'm sorry, is it more logical to take some anonymous nobody on a supporters internet forum's 'theory'?

[rass]

2 hours ago, AntiScum said:

My theory is that Bruno's management asked for a contract extension, city said well wait till the end of the year. Bruno's manager said we're not waiting and shopped him around. 

City cracked the shits, and fukd over Bruno to be an evil little monster for looking after his own best interests. 

I find this skin fold crap an absolute joke. The guy scores for fun. He was coming back from a serious injury, what the hell do they expect. 

Lol, you rag on @SF33 for his thoughts, commenting on here like you know everything that really happened with Bruno, then turn around and say it's just a theory.

You need to separate reality from your passion. Yeah Bruno used to score for fun once upon a time, but no one can argue he has not been as effective since the major injury - and the whole skin fold story came out together with the story that he was only dropped to the bench for the Brisbane game, not from the squad - that was Bruno's doing. But this part seems to go largely unnoticed.

Whether you all like it or not, it can be successfully argued that the team has been more successful since he was dropped.

Bruno will always be a club legend, but until we all really know what happened, it's a bit wrong to jump on people for their opinion.

Hopefully the real truth comes out once he leaves.

 

[SF33]

3 hours ago, Torn Asunder said:

Clearly something came to a head following the Nix game after he scored.

i reckon it’s as simple as Joyce calling out Bruno on.his fitness, Bruno cracking it over this and feeling disrespected (as even if he did put on a few kgs, he knows himself that his efforts and dedication are 100%, regardless of what sports science says), Bruno having a go at Joyce, then dummy spits and stubbornness all round. 

Bruno then showing Joyce at training what a pissweak effort really is, and Joyce not having the right type of man management skills to recover the situation, and Bruno thinking he can easily get a contract elsewhere.

Also, to prove his point, Bruno’s management probably leaked the SFC thing after things went pear shaped.

Jamo hinted at this when he said surely they could all sit down and work it out.

Wont happen though, unless Bruno decides to lose face and apologise, because CFG will back the manager and the club over the player

That's pretty much how I see it. We've complained about having gutless jokes managing the team practically since its inception, so we appoint a tough as nails, stubborn old goat to take over and give the team a bit of backbone, then we don't like it when he acts like a stubborn old goat.

If, as reported by multiple sources, Fornaroli was an unexplained absence from the travelling party to Brisbane, I'm sorry, but that has to be an automatic suspension at a professional sports team. The length depends on the reason (if indeed there is one).

I just can't see how anyone can look at the situation objectively and reasonably think Fornaroli is blameless in this whole saga. I wish he was with us for another three years, but the relationship is terminal. He needs to be cut loose.

Edited January 1, 2019 by SF33

[AntiScum]

8 minutes ago, rass said:

Lol, you rag on @SF33 for his thoughts, commenting on here like you know everything that really happened with Bruno, then turn around and say it's just a theory.

You need to separate reality from your passion. Yeah Bruno used to score for fun once upon a time, but no one can argue he has not been as effective since the major injury - and the whole skin fold story came out together with the story that he was only dropped to the bench for the Brisbane game, not from the squad - that was Bruno's doing. But this part seems to go largely unnoticed.

Whether you all like it or not, it can be successfully argued that the team has been more successful since he was dropped.

Bruno will always be a club legend, but until we all really know what happened, it's a bit wrong to jump on people for their opinion.

Hopefully the real truth comes out once he leaves.

 

That's MY opinion, not what's written in articles with no facts from club sources. I didn't go and quote or paste links from media outlets. 

How do you get your skin folds down? By playing and training? You may aswell arge that his been playing under done which let's face it, is extremely poor man management. 

The club fkd this one up monumentally by blurring out his image during games and having Joyce come out and publicly slate him in interviews!!  Poor form all round. 

[SF33]

3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

With respect, I don't think the authors of any of those media articles have/had any more information than those of us on the Forum. Also, I don't think anyone ever said that Kilkenny, Brandan or Cahill "were not required players."

To some extent I regard Tim Cahill as a special case. He aired his grievance in public, and you just don't do that with your employer; if you do it's almost certain that you will be the loser. However, let's look at all the senior players who have left or known to have issues with Joyce during his regime so far:

Neil Kilkenny - Player of the Year 2016-17, Supporters' Player of the Year 2016-17.
Fernando Brandan - visa player (Argentina)
Tim Cahill - Club Captain 2017-18
Michael Jakobsen - Team Captain 2017-18, visa player (Denmark)
Marcin Budzinski - marquee visa player (Poland)
Now we have Bruno Fornaroli - marquee visa player (Uruguay)

To me, the likely root cause of it all is the way Joyce conducts himself as a manager.

Like I said, it can be argued whether it was the right move, but the fact was Kilkenny and Cahill weren't considered to be automatic starters by Joyce. Cahill was publicly critical as you've noted and it's hardly a stretch to hypothesise that Kilkenny wouldn't be shy about having a bit of a grumble about being a cameo player (totally justified by the way - I loved Killer - but we brought Joyce in to make those tough decisions). I know that to many at the time, it seemed like there was only one spot in the XI for Brattan on Kilkenny and they went with Brattan. That seems fair enough to me.

Brandan was a strange one after being on our books for a duration of an ACL rehab and promptly being cut loose. Still, despite exploding on the scene and being a bit of a cult hero with his passion and ferocity, I thought overall he was just 'OK' in his time here, I thought his production took a nosedive after he started being criticised around the league for his theatrics. It's conceivable to me that we simply thought we could get someone better.

Jakobsen was a great servant who suffered with some unwelcome stints on the sideline through injury. Sorry to see him go, but with a back five that is going as well - if not better than - anything we've every had previously, it's tough to say that was a poor decision. Budzinski, I agree was either poorly managed, or a big mistake to be signed as a marquee (it has to be one or the other).

Anyway, as I've said, we brought Joyce in specifically to make these tough decisions and, as far as I'm concerned, we should give him at least two seasons to see how his vision is shaping up.

Edited January 1, 2019 by SF33

[rass]

1 minute ago, AntiScum said:

That's MY opinion, not what's written in articles with no facts from club sources. I didn't go and quote or paste links from media outlets. 

How do you get your skin folds down? By playing and training? You may aswell arge that his been playing under done which let's face it, is extremely poor man management. 

The club fkd this one up monumentally by blurring out his image during games and having Joyce come out and publicly slate him in interviews!!  Poor form all round. 

I agree about the image blurring - that's both petty and pathetic.

 

[AntiScum]

7 minutes ago, rass said:

I agree about the image blurring - that's both petty and pathetic.

 

Extremely. 

Knowing Joyce's background at previous clubs with his man management style, he shoulders a lot of the blame. It should of all be kept behind closed doors and delt with rather than letting it fester. Yes take a stance for what ever has happened but don't go and slate him and turn it into a circus. The club isn't in any position to get fans offside as it is. 

 

If he has a problem with his skin folds it all comes down to his rehab and those managing his rehab!! 

Edited January 1, 2019 by AntiScum

[wombegongal]

Interesting discussion.

 

I'm also perplexed by somethings the club has done but recognise I'm not privy to the decision making process. Remember with any player in the A-league it's a production verses salary discussion. I don't think anyone can argue that Kilkenny wasn't an excellent player for us, but, was he worth the coin he was on? Personally I have no idea. 

 

I'm also confused by people who in the past wanted the club to freeze players out for x, y or z (depending who they liked and didn't). Now the club is doing this and they are poor man managers. Seems to me you are damned if you do....

 

Finally and I'm really not sure I need to say this but I will. Skin-fold's are much more to do with diet than exercise. I'm sure estimates vary but my mate with the sports science degree says 80-90 percent diet with 10-20 percent exercise, my PT mate says the same. So maybe Bruno's skin folds are shit house (or it could be a cover story) but blaming skin folds on the club is pretty laughable. You don't need to run and play to keep fit and stay thin. And as a paid (in this case well paid) player you have a professional obligation to stay in shape even through injury periods.

[AntiScum]

8 hours ago, wombegongal said:

Interesting discussion.

 

I'm also perplexed by somethings the club has done but recognise I'm not privy to the decision making process. Remember with any player in the A-league it's a production verses salary discussion. I don't think anyone can argue that Kilkenny wasn't an excellent player for us, but, was he worth the coin he was on? Personally I have no idea. 

 

I'm also confused by people who in the past wanted the club to freeze players out for x, y or z (depending who they liked and didn't). Now the club is doing this and they are poor man managers. Seems to me you are damned if you do....

 

Finally and I'm really not sure I need to say this but I will. Skin-fold's are much more to do with diet than exercise. I'm sure estimates vary but my mate with the sports science degree says 80-90 percent diet with 10-20 percent exercise, my PT mate says the same. So maybe Bruno's skin folds are shit house (or it could be a cover story) but blaming skin folds on the club is pretty laughable. You don't need to run and play to keep fit and stay thin. And as a paid (in this case well paid) player you have a professional obligation to stay in shape even through injury periods.

I dont want to turn this into a hate campaign againts the club but if that was the case with Kilkenny why sign him in the first place?

Freezing out players is an absolute disgrace regardless of anyone`s opinion!!

The club and its doctors, physios and medical/conditioning team have a DUTY OF CARE to get Bruno back to his pre injury state!! Bruno had major surgery on his ankle meaning he would of been immobile for a decent amount of time. Now i for one can relate to this being in a similar situation but when your immobile you dont tend to move!! Weight gain is natural.  Now its upto to the clubs conditioning staff to get him back into shape!! I`ll leave you with that thought!!

Bruno wouldnt have a degree in nutrition/recovery/rehab/exercising while injured. once again its the clubs DUTY OF CARE to get him back fit and firing!!

Edited January 1, 2019 by AntiScum

[jw1739]

8 hours ago, wombegongal said:

Interesting discussion.

 

I'm also perplexed by somethings the club has done but recognise I'm not privy to the decision making process. Remember with any player in the A-league it's a production verses salary discussion. I don't think anyone can argue that Kilkenny wasn't an excellent player for us, but, was he worth the coin he was on? Personally I have no idea. 

 

I'm also confused by people who in the past wanted the club to freeze players out for x, y or z (depending who they liked and didn't). Now the club is doing this and they are poor man managers. Seems to me you are damned if you do....

 

Finally and I'm really not sure I need to say this but I will. Skin-fold's are much more to do with diet than exercise. I'm sure estimates vary but my mate with the sports science degree says 80-90 percent diet with 10-20 percent exercise, my PT mate says the same. So maybe Bruno's skin folds are shit house (or it could be a cover story) but blaming skin folds on the club is pretty laughable. You don't need to run and play to keep fit and stay thin. And as a paid (in this case well paid) player you have a professional obligation to stay in shape even through injury periods.

Given that clubs are required to pay a minimum of 85% of the cap, I'd say that there's a sound argument that a number of A-League players are overpaid relative to what they produce on the field. The lower the club on the table, the stronger that argument would be. 

None of us know quite what the Joyce/Fornaroli stand-off is really about. IIRC there was a report or reference that Fornaroli was selected as a substitute for the away match in Brisbane, but did not travel north with the team. Again, IIRC, Joyce has never referred to what actually happened or what was said about that match, and after one or two false starts, said the players all made some sort of compact in pre-season about training and playing, and that he didn't see enough of what he called "commitment" on the training track to include Bruno, and he's also reverted to that argument when referring to other players as well.

[SF33]

1 hour ago, AntiScum said:

I dont want to turn this into a hate campaign againts the club but if that was the case with Kilkenny why sign him in the first place?

Freezing out players is an absolute disgrace regardless of anyone`s opinion!!

The club and its doctors, physios and medical/conditioning team have a DUTY OF CARE to get Bruno back to his pre injury state!! Bruno had major surgery on his ankle meaning he would of been immobile for a decent amount of time. Now i for one can relate to this being in a similar situation but when your immobile you dont tend to move!! Weight gain is natural.  Now its upto to the clubs conditioning staff to get him back into shape!! I`ll leave you with that thought!!

Bruno wouldnt have a degree in nutrition/recovery/rehab/exercising while injured. once again its the clubs DUTY OF CARE to get him back fit and firing!!

Blaming the nutritionists at the club for a poor skinfolds test? Can't say I've ever heard of that one from a 30-something professional athlete.

[jeffplz]

The club literally has the best medical team in the country.

[AntiScum]

2 hours ago, SF33 said:

Blaming the nutritionists at the club for a poor skinfolds test? Can't say I've ever heard of that one from a 30-something professional athlete.

The clubs nutritionist sets the players diets!! The physios assist in rehab, sports science department sets the conditioning, club doctors monitor injuries. 

Would you like me to carry on? 

[SF33]

Just now, AntiScum said:

The clubs nutritionist sets the players diets!! The physios assist in rehab, sports science department sets the conditioning, club doctors monitor injuries. 

Would you like me to carry on? 

You must be joking.

If the club is responsible for everything that a player puts into their body, why bother testing their skinfolds in the first place?

Your defence of Fornaroli from even the slightest responsibility for the current situation has moved from 'admirable' to 'unhinged'.

[playmaker]

Who gives a flying FK about the skin folds and sports science crap.

Bruno is the best striker in the A-league period and even at 85% must be played.

Wazza and the club are morons, but nothing new there.

[AntiScum]

13 minutes ago, SF33 said:

You must be joking.

If the club is responsible for everything that a player puts into their body, why bother testing their skinfolds in the first place?

Your defence of Fornaroli from even the slightest responsibility for the current situation has moved from 'admirable' to 'unhinged'.

They`re not responsible for EVERYTHING that gets put in there bodies!! They do however set the player`s diets .....

You sound like a club official trying to cover someones ass!! 

[SF33]

Just now, AntiScum said:

They`re not responsible for EVERYTHING that gets put in there bodies!! They do however set the player`s diets .....

You sound like a club official trying to cover someones ass!! 

Can you explain your point?

You seem to be suggesting that instead of the obvious conclusion, that Bruno may have been a bit too quick in taking advantage of the club's sponsorship deal with McDonald's, that instead he's been set a diet by the club that has directly caused him to fall outside an acceptable range for his skinfolds. Which is a good laugh, of course, but a bit of a worry if you genuinely believe it.

[AntiScum]

9 minutes ago, SF33 said:

Can you explain your point?

You seem to be suggesting that instead of the obvious conclusion, that Bruno may have been a bit too quick in taking advantage of the club's sponsorship deal with McDonald's, that instead he's been set a diet by the club that has directly caused him to fall outside an acceptable range for his skinfolds. Which is a good laugh, of course, but a bit of a worry if you genuinely believe it.

Seriously? I think your "unhinged" is showing!!

He put on weight after his surgery and injury, and YES the club does set out diets/meal prep for ALL the players(not just Bruno)!!

Edited January 2, 2019 by AntiScum

[SF33]

So, he's been playing competitive football for us since - from memory August (?) and the first skinfolds test he fails is in late November and it's the club's fault because they either:

• didn't look after his fitness during his rehab
• set him a terrible diet which caused his body fat to go up, because Bruno would of course, follow these instructions to the letter (unlike, say, instructions to be at the airport to travel to Brisbane); or
• some combination of the two, doesn't matter, as long as Bruno isn't blamed whatsoever #joyceout.

Personally, I'm inclined to surmise that a guy that doesn't feel compelled to join his team for an interstate trip when he's been named in the squad may also be the type of player who may not be the most diligent when it comes to training and diet.

[haz]

-

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by haz

[Mr MO]

We shouldn’t overlook the fact that Bruno was out of form, actually deserved a game on the bench and is on 3x as much money as most other players.