n i k o Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I couldn't find I dedicated section for this so post up both the good and the bad of how our game publicised in the media. Personally I believe the media has the power to make the game huge or keep it brushed under the carpet, which in my opinion has been the objective since forever in this country. Just head to The Age online today as an example of the proportions soccer in this country gets in the media, especially when the Asian Cup is the biggest event in the world at the moment and will be viewed on TV by no less than 800 million viewers over the course of the tournament. It is a constant up hill battle through the mud for our sport and it will have to continue to slog it out on its own without help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 This thread will get depressing very quickly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 IMO we can't ask for and shouldn't expect the media to be promoting our game unless we're doing it ourselves first. So I think the discussion should start with FFA and ask the question just what is FFA doing to promote the game and project it into the consciousness of the public? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/asian-soccer-from-the-cheap-seats-20150110-12lmja.html Interesting peice by Tim Boyle. Seems content on commenting on everything negative about not only his experience during the game but our inclusion into the Asian Cup. And I'd like to know where he gets his facts that "Abbott was greeted with disdain, booed heartily and with humour by a crowd whose majority were Australian migrants." "They were part of a cute gesture during the opening gala where we were all implored to hold up our cards and then, when instructed, switch them to reveal the opposite side." Belittling the efforts of the opening ceremony, where as far as I know something like this has not been done at any other sporting event in Australia, unless someone can correct me. "But, in fact, the seats were at ground level, behind the goals, behind a fence, which a dozen photographers sat behind, and behind whom several ball boys stood." He sounds suprised that he was sitting there. Usually when you purchase a ticket you look on the stadium map where you will sit, which readily available for viewing when your making your ticket selection. And if he was aware that his seat would be restricted then maybe he should have done what the rest of us did and either pay the extra to get a Category A seat or call up the ticket office and actually ask them what the view will be like and ask to be seated elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 IMO we can't ask for and shouldn't expect the media to be promoting our game unless we're doing it ourselves first. So I think the discussion should start with FFA and ask the question just what is FFA doing to promote the game and project it into the consciousness of the public? I totally agree, but how do they go about changing what has been a uphill struggle for the game through the media? Especially with their being so many, not all though, in the media determined to keep the game down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strider Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Media is stunting the growth of Australian football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestr Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 800million viewers....... Nice number, however totally not reflected by the crowd numbers at the games here. Very surprised how poor the crowd numbers were in few of the games shown on TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/asian-soccer-from-the-cheap-seats-20150110-12lmja.html Interesting peice by Tim Boyle. Seems content on commenting on everything negative about not only his experience during the game but our inclusion into the Asian Cup. And I'd like to know where he gets his facts that "Abbott was greeted with disdain, booed heartily and with humour by a crowd whose majority were Australian migrants." "They were part of a cute gesture during the opening gala where we were all implored to hold up our cards and then, when instructed, switch them to reveal the opposite side." Belittling the efforts of the opening ceremony, where as far as I know something like this has not been done at any other sporting event in Australia, unless someone can correct me. "But, in fact, the seats were at ground level, behind the goals, behind a fence, which a dozen photographers sat behind, and behind whom several ball boys stood." He sounds suprised that he was sitting there. Usually when you purchase a ticket you look on the stadium map where you will sit, which readily available for viewing when your making your ticket selection. And if he was aware that his seat would be restricted then maybe he should have done what the rest of us did and either pay the extra to get a Category A seat or call up the ticket office and actually ask them what the view will be like and ask to be seated elsewhere. Just on the Opening Ceremony, IIRC the ceremony at the Sydney Olympics got a bit of a caning - the wheelbarrows being one aspect I recall. On the "restricted view" comment I'm going to disagree with you I'm afraid (but let's not get the thread bogged down with it). I don't think anyone going to any event - could be football, could be ballet, could be anything - should have to take the time to check whether the seat they are being offered actually has a proper view of what they are paying to see. Seats without a proper view should not be on sale. For these Asian Cup matches at AAMI Park I am indeed surprised to see additional advertising hoardings not only behind the goals but also down the eastern side (I can't remember what was down the western side). I was caught at a previous international match at AAMI where we had a bloody Fox cameraman jumping up and down in front of us the whole time, and indeed it was most irritating - and there was no warning on "restricted view" on that occasion. IMO this sort of thing is an example of how not to present our game to the public. Restricted view is the reason I will not go to an AFL ground to watch football, whatever the match is. So if it pisses off a life-long fan it's likely to piss off casuals who otherwise might become interested in the game on a more permanent basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 In regards to holding up cards, I was asked to at the Afl grand final 2 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedaik Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/asian-soccer-from-the-cheap-seats-20150110-12lmja.html I'd say the opinion piece is more satire than it is to be taken seriously. Edited January 13, 2015 by hedaik 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEARTinator Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 There's some word that FFA may terminate SBS's contract early and there appears to be some interest from FTA channels to show HAL games. Raises the point about how well SBS has done in attracting TV viewers to Friday night HAL games. Personally I think SBS has limited reach/audience and it therefore will not expand the game to new eyballs compared to say 7,9 or 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestr Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) There's some word that FFA may terminate SBS's contract early and there appears to be some interest from FTA channels to show HAL games. Raises the point about how well SBS has done in attracting TV viewers to Friday night HAL games. Personally I think SBS has limited reach/audience and it therefore will not expand the game to new eyballs compared to say 7,9 or 10.Not sure if I'm prepared for add breaks every time corner or free kick is awarded. However as far exposure goes FTA would be a huge step forward. Edited January 13, 2015 by Jestr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALZALOL Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 There's some word that FFA may terminate SBS's contract early and there appears to be some interest from FTA channels to show HAL games. Raises the point about how well SBS has done in attracting TV viewers to Friday night HAL games. Personally I think SBS has limited reach/audience and it therefore will not expand the game to new eyballs compared to say 7,9 or 10. I remember reading that Channel 7's acquisition of the Broadcasting rights for the NSL were a bid to suffocate the viewing of Australia Football. I wouldn't be too happy about this news... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) There's some word that FFA may terminate SBS's contract early and there appears to be some interest from FTA channels to show HAL games. Raises the point about how well SBS has done in attracting TV viewers to Friday night HAL games. Personally I think SBS has limited reach/audience and it therefore will not expand the game to new eyballs compared to say 7,9 or 10. Why would you want 7, 9 or 10 to show HAL games? Do you want meaningless commercials multiple times during the game or interruptions with "News just in" on AFL transfers? Edited January 15, 2015 by Tony999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedaik Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I remember reading that Channel 7's acquisition of the Broadcasting rights for the NSL were a bid to suffocate the viewing of Australia Football. I wouldn't be too happy about this news... Why would you want 7, 9 or 10 to show HAL games? Do you want meaningless commercials multiple times during the game or interruptions with "News just in" on AFL transfers? It's up to the FFA to add clauses into the broadcasting contract to stipulate what the broadcaster can or can't do with their product. In the NSL days there was no alternative to watch the games. We have Fox now, so the games will be broadcast even if Ch7 decide to not show the games (which won't happen due to the above) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted January 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Priorities of the media clear once again. I would have thought getting to the final of the Asian Cup would have been bigger news than Micheal Clarke or some blonde with her tits popping out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedaik Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Are you going to paste a copy of the New Idea next and wonder why Sainsbury isnt on the cover? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Are you going to paste a copy of the New Idea next and wonder why Sainsbury isnt on the cover? would it be satisfactory if his mrs was on the cover? 'how I lost 30 kgs and inspired trent to Asian cup glory' Edited January 27, 2015 by bt50 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted January 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Are you going to paste a copy of the New Idea next and wonder why Sainsbury isnt on the cover? A magazine that targets women's needs and interests or a newsapaper that targets the general population? Whatever point your trying to prove you haven't done a very good job at it. I think my point is very clear. Currently the biggest event in this hemisphere is happenning right now and this is what we can expect from our leading media outlets? Doesn't that bother you at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedaik Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Are you going to paste a copy of the New Idea next and wonder why Sainsbury isnt on the cover? Currently the biggest event in this hemisphere is happenning right now and this is what we can expect from our leading media outlets? Doesn't that bother you at all? I assume we aren't counting The Block or Australian Open which both out rated the game last night? news.com.au is a pure clickbait site to generate money, which is why you have a pair of boobs taking up 1/2 of the screen. If Foxsports articles generated enough hits to generate News Ltd money, then it would be on the front page. Read a serious sports website if you want to see sport articles, not trash like news.com.au which is in the same league as New Idea. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Media outlets publish what their target demographic/predominant audience want to read. To be honest, I'm glad our game typically fails to attract the kind of people who watch The Block. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I don't know if you read the hard copy of the herald sun sports section the other week niko, but on the cover was an article talking about how Cahill was our greatest footballer compared to Gary ablett senior and other footballers. don't have a photo unfortuantly but i'll look for it online. Btw those are some pretty good tits. worthy front cover news. Edited January 28, 2015 by kingofhearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 That's it. How to market the "brand." Weekly feature in the Hun entitled "City Titties." Lingerie to be sky blue, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedaik Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I don't know if you read the hard copy of the herald sun sports section the other week niko, but on the cover was an article talking about how Cahill was our greatest footballer compared to Gary ablett senior and other footballers. don't have a photo unfortuantly but i'll look for it online. Btw those are some pretty good tits. worthy front cover news. Sex Before Soccer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted January 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Are you going to paste a copy of the New Idea next and wonder why Sainsbury isnt on the cover? Currently the biggest event in this hemisphere is happenning right now and this is what we can expect from our leading media outlets? Doesn't that bother you at all? I assume we aren't counting The Block or Australian Open which both out rated the game last night? news.com.au is a pure clickbait site to generate money, which is why you have a pair of boobs taking up 1/2 of the screen. If Foxsports articles generated enough hits to generate News Ltd money, then it would be on the front page. Read a serious sports website if you want to see sport articles, not trash like news.com.au which is in the same league as New Idea. But in terms of importance to the nation then yes I do count them. We have no aussies left in the draws at the Aus Open and we all know how important The Block is. Again, my point is the game where our National Team is playing should be getting better publicity throughout all media outlets. And when your nation is playing in the final of a sport that is truly global and covers the reaches of Asia pacific then I'd say it should justify better coverage than it has received. I agree with you though that there are better websites to see sports articles. A good example will be the cricket World Cup and I'd be happy to come back on here and compare the coverage it gets compared to the Socceroos. I don't know if you read the hard copy of the herald sun sports section the other week niko, but on the cover was an article talking about how Cahill was our greatest footballer compared to Gary ablett senior and other footballers. don't have a photo unfortuantly but i'll look for it online. Btw those are some pretty good tits. worthy front cover news. Hard copy seems to generally be better coverage, I agree. And I have seen the Socceroos articles as well. And also agree, the tits are pretty good. Agree on all accounts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agoalie Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 well the ratings for the match last night got over 1million combined between foxtel and the abc, making it the 3rd/4th highest rating for the night. the murdoch sun today had a negative story on page 3 about how sth melbourne are kicking out the little athletics states from lakeside oval due to the pitch being relayed, very negative towards the semi-professional club then the next page over had 2 pages celebrating the socceroos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisphantomfortress Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I like how we are all pointing out negatives and all avoiding the fact that the Socceroos were on the front page of the Age today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I like how we are all pointing out negatives and all avoiding the fact that the Socceroos were on the front page of the Age today. It just ain't ozzie sokka cultcha without the chip on the shoulder. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japiedog Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 But the Australian had nothing in it at all nothing in the front pages, nothing in the back pages Unless there was a special "lift out" that I didn't get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted January 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I like how we are all pointing out negatives and all avoiding the fact that the Socceroos were on the front page of the Age today. Of course that's a positive, and it's great. Kudos to The Age for the article, an event of this proportion should be on the front page. And if I had thought of taking a picture and posting the cover here I would have but I didn't. I like how we are all pointing out negatives and all avoiding the fact that the Socceroos were on the front page of the Age today. It just ain't ozzie sokka cultcha without the chip on the shoulder. Sorry KSK_47 but your very mistaken, it's not a chip on the shoulder. No doubt some people have it but not in my case. It's about the game simply getting the coverage it deserves on a level playing field. Nothing more nothing less. FWIW I grew up playing all sports from aussie rules to backyard cricket etc. But as I said in my earlier post, purely as a comparison, it will be interesting to see the coverage the cricket World Cup gets compared to the Asian Cup. Edited January 28, 2015 by n i k o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I like how we are all pointing out negatives and all avoiding the fact that the Socceroos were on the front page of the Age today. Of course that's a positive, and it's great. Kudos to The Age for the article, an event of this proportion should be on the front page. And if I had thought of taking a picture and posting the cover here I would have but I didn't. I like how we are all pointing out negatives and all avoiding the fact that the Socceroos were on the front page of the Age today.It just ain't ozzie sokka cultcha without the chip on the shoulder.Sorry KSK_47 but your very mistaken, it's not a chip on the shoulder. No doubt some people have it but not in my case. It's about the game simply getting the coverage it deserves on a level playing field. Nothing more nothing less. FWIW I grew up playing all sports from aussie rules to backyard cricket etc. But as I said in my earlier post, purely as a comparison, it will be interesting to see the coverage the cricket World Cup gets compared to the Asian Cup. A shit ton more. It's cricket, and we are in Australia. And we will probably win it There is no comparison. It also helps that many of the teams are Anglo and have pronouncable names Edited January 28, 2015 by Tonyboozeadams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedaik Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Just as long as you also compare the crowd numbers when you're comparing the media interest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I wasnt referring to anyone in particular, but it is what it is and we need to get over it. Does soccer get less coverage because it not as popular, or is it not as popular because it doesnt get enough coverage? I have no idea and (personally) I dont think its important. Anyway. I wont harp on about it, but Oz Soccer has always had a victim complex (for as long as I have been watching it anyway) which is part reasonable and part overreaction. But moaning doesnt help, it holds us back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I wasnt referring to anyone in particular, but it is what it is and we need to get over it. Does soccer get less coverage because it not as popular, or is it not as popular because it doesnt get enough coverage? I have no idea and (personally) I dont think its important. Anyway. I wont harp on about it, but Oz Soccer has always had a victim complex (for as long as I have been watching it anyway) which is part reasonable and part overreaction. But moaning doesnt help, it holds us back. It is probably a bit of both, no ones saying the sport has been perfect what with incidents between club supporters etc. But my feeling is the coverage it does get is below par to what it should get. Perhaps the sport is paying for the decades of alienating the general supporter through ethnic centred clubs, but at the same time it wasn't in the medias interest or perhaps the Australian way of life either to promote the sport. Tony I agree the cricket and also afl will get more coverage on a pure volume scale. My opinion is more so that it hasn't received enough coverage based on the interest in it out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I wasnt referring to anyone in particular, but it is what it is and we need to get over it. Does soccer get less coverage because it not as popular, or is it not as popular because it doesnt get enough coverage? I have no idea and (personally) I dont think its important. Anyway. I wont harp on about it, but Oz Soccer has always had a victim complex (for as long as I have been watching it anyway) which is part reasonable and part overreaction. But moaning doesnt help, it holds us back. IMO we have to face up to the fact that "soccer" is not the sport of "the establishment" here, and it isn't in a lot of other places either. Living in the UK in the days when there were 92 Football League clubs in action every winter Saturday you would have been hard-pressed to know that from any of the toffee-nose newspapers of the day. Sports such as yachting, rowing, polo, Rugby Union, golf, tennis etc. etc. always receive media coverage far greater than their spectator numbers or public interest would suggest that they should do. KSK is correct. We are the ones who have to start the change. We need to stop emphasising the negatives about our game, and focus on the positives. For example, it irks me to see FFA 's approach to the current Newcastle situation. Just look at FFA's own statements here: http://www.a-league.com.au/article/ffa-urge-jets-owners-to-act/2vofm62pg1ij16hsw84x5l13mFar better would have been something like "FFA is working closely with the Hunter Sports Group to resolve and overcome some issues that have arisen at the Newcastle Jets." Similarly the ludicrous play-school spat between Frank Lowy and Clive Palmer that saw the end of Gold Coast United could have been resolved by the simple expedient of Lowy picking up the phone and saying - "Hey Clive, I'm coming up to see you - let's fix this up." I also see FFA shooting itself in the foot over fixtures. How ludicrous that Heart/City has to apply each year to keep the "Christmas Derby" when it's fast becoming an icon on the Melbourne sporting calendar. And that we have to compete with the F1 every year? I've just attended all seven of the Asian Cup matches here at AAMI Park. A fabulous event. Crowds between 10,000 and 25,000, people from just about every ethnicity on the planet coming together for a festival of football, a bagful of goals, and a lot of fun had by all. It is up to the administrators of the game itself to build on this, because we cannot expect anyone else to do it for us. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I was going to ask throughout a few of my posts, but got side tracked, as to how much responsibility FFA has in their efforts to get the media onto their side? I definetly agree they haven't done enough and could have done things much better. Take the lead up to the asian cup for example, while there was some advertisement of the event there definitely wasn't a big enough push by FFA to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattyd89 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) AFC nations want Socceroos expelled from Asian football, says Sheikh Salman Bin Ibrahim al-Khalifa The president of Asia's football governing body says Gulf nations want the Socceroos expelled from the continental confederation. Ahead of Saturday's Asian Cup final between the Socceroos and South Korea in Sydney, the Asian Football Confederation's president Sheikh Salman Bin Ibrahim al-Khalifa said he was aware of momentum in the AFC for Australia's removal from Asian football. Salman told Dubai-based newspaper Al-Ittihad that "Arabs are not the only ones" looking to exclude Australia. "Australia joined the AFC before I was elected as the president," Salman said. "At that time, the AFC general assembly made no resolution about re-assessing Australia's membership to determine whether it will stay or be evicted. "There are indications that prove that such desire exists among the confederations of west Asia to evict Australia. "But I also know that the Arabs are not the only ones who are not convinced that Australia's membership in Asia's football is feasible." Salman says he is content with Australia's involvement in the AFC but says dissenting nations could raise the issue at this year's general assembly. With Australia regularly qualifying for the World Cup since joining the confederation after its 2006 qualification via the Oceania group, there is a feeling among aspirational west Asian nations that the Socceroos are taking a spot away from the rest of the continent. But FFA chief David Gallop has hit back, saying Australia does make a significant contribution to the AFC. "We were extremely surprised to hear of these press reports from west Asia," Gallop told Fairfax. "We are newcomers to AFC but our commitment to participate in competitions, membership of important AFC committees and general sharing of ideas and programs increases every year. "We celebrate the diversity of the Asian region and this tournament has shown our contribution can go beyond football to create and foster social and political bridges between key trading partners in the region. "Importantly, Australia is also in the top five markets for television rights in the entire confederation. It has been educational for Australians and Australia's multiculturalism has been on show. "We have educated over 50,000 children about Asia through our Asian Cup primary school course." Should Australia win the Asian Cup, it will hold both the international and club Asian titles after the Western Sydney Wanderers' Asian Champions League victory in 2014. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-30/afc-nations-want-to-evict-socceroos-from-asia/6056870 not new news that they want us out, but for the AFC president to come out publicly that the are factions it sounds quite serious! But could just be rich oil men not getting their way. Edited January 30, 2015 by pattyd89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeming Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 The timing on the eve of the Asian Cup is also a factor - trying to play mind games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 I was going to ask throughout a few of my posts, but got side tracked, as to how much responsibility FFA has in their efforts to get the media onto their side? I definetly agree they haven't done enough and could have done things much better. Take the lead up to the asian cup for example, while there was some advertisement of the event there definitely wasn't a big enough push by FFA to do so. As you know I'm not normally one to offer a lot of support for what FFA does, but IMO in this case they were probably unsure of just how the Asian Cup would be received in Australia. Did anyone really expect the size of the crowds we obtained for the lesser matches at every venue? I for one did not expect to see 10,000+ at, say, Jordan v. Palestine at AAMI. And the southern end, which I suspect was where most of the "venue pack" people were, was generally pretty full at every game. So I'd say FFA were right not to pour too much money into advertising something that might well have been a flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 lol, the Arab nations don't want us merely because we're better than them and we keep beating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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