The JvS thread

[SF33]

 

 

 

 

 

I've heard from someone close to the coaching staff that JVS will be moved on at the end of the season. I won't complain.

Will say a prayer tonight so that is in fact true. Sat next to someone associated with the club in a coaching capacity at the Socceroos v Kuwait game. Do you really think someone from the club will divulge that sort of information? I think not. But l hope l'm wrong! He's not with the club but had been offered a coaching role in the past and still has strong connections with the club and coaching staff.

If that's the case then l don't buy it. But of course, I'd like to be proven wrong.

 

 

'If he knows, does Van't Schip know?' would be my question. Presumably, he would. In which case, why on earth is he still here?

[HeartFc]

This bloke has that "I have no idea what the fuck I am doing" look in his eyes. Once you get that, you're fucked. 

[Semper Cor]

IMO, JvS has always lacked a degree of conviction and this is reflected in the team’s failure to consistently improve.

 

As Tesla pointed out the ability to extract everything out of the playing group and instil a level of confidence, motivation and belief can be what separates the top teams from the rest in a salary capped player-restricted league, especially if you want to play in a particular style which is the CFG agenda.

 

Don’t get me wrong I wanted JvS to succeed but he's taken this team as far as he can.  Unlike Gombau at AU or Ange at BR and later at MV where you could see they were building something, there’s little evidence to suggest that the same thing is going to happen here.

 

If CFG are worth their salt, they would be headhunting a new manager now.  They would have acknowledged that the playing list is abominably bad and that any new players brought into the club would be best done by a new manager.  

[NewConvert]

My brother went to the game last night and he has been a strong JVS supporter until yesterday's end result. His comments was that JVS needs to go this week. The game was lost before the first whistle and this could be seen by how flat the players were and he was unable to come up with a plan B nor motivate the players. Outcoached and with a list that although not good enough to be a top 2 side but should have played a lot better than what they did.

In the unlikely event that JVS is shown the door before season's end, should Palitsides take over as caretaker or should they bring someone new immediately even on an interim basis?

[SF33]

My brother went to the game last night and he has been a strong JVS supporter until yesterday's end result. His comments was that JVS needs to go this week. The game was lost before the first whistle and this could be seen by how flat the players were and he was unable to come up with a plan B nor motivate the players. Outcoached and with a list that although not good enough to be a top 2 side but should have played a lot better than what they did.

In the unlikely event that JVS is shown the door before season's end, should Palitsides take over as caretaker or should they bring someone new immediately even on an interim basis?

 

Unforgivable for any derby, or any game with so much on the line in the season.

[Attack11]

I agree with most comments on here. I've never said JVS is a bad coach, just that he doesn't have the ability to take us to the next level. My information is JVS will be assessed on these 4 games against the top 4 teams in the league.. He won't be sacked before seasons end however he will be moved on if he can't get a positive result in the next 3 games..

Give our performance last night and his post match presser .. I think JVS knows the writing is on the wall..

I agree we don't have the best list of players but I do think our squad should be good enough to finish at least 4th .. With JVS at the helm we will be lucky to scrape in at 6th spot by a single point.

[Murfy1]

 

 

 

 

Surely no one can say the list is no good any more?

 

The list is not good enough.

 

At least, the list is not good enough to beat 2nd place victory, who are annoyingly looking good this year and are joint title favourites with Perth. Victory have only lost 2 games this season (once to us, at AAMI, and once to 1st place Perth), so this derby was always going to be a headache.

 

And the injury list, Paartalu, Dugandzic, Velaphi, Garuccio, Brown, Wielaert, and seemingly Mauk, Marino, Germano, is too onerous on a squad with the likes of Ramsay, Redmayne and Murdocca in it.

 

The squad still needs a significant cleanout.

 

I love this bloke. Gotta hand it to you Murf, despite all logocal and statistical evidence you don't bend on your opinions. I like and appreciate stubbornness.

 

 

Well I guess someone has to balance out the cult-like Anti-JVS brigade.

 

 

I look forward to seeing the superstardom that Redmayne, Ramsay, Wielaert, Murdocca, Williams, Dugandzic and Germano will go on to achieve once they come across a new coach.

 

Fact is, when we signed each of those players, people were happy and thought each of those would be important players (apart from Redmayne I guess). Most of them had very good track records before coming here, Williams was the best player in an A-league team, Murdocca an important player in a title winning side, Dugandzic was a pretty highly rated player everyone thought was on his way to Europe instead of us, Ramsay was considered a good A-League player, Wielaert has played at a high level and where he played last reads well on paper (never saw how he actually performed so dont know how he was actually going), Germano is a talented footbalelr as we have seen, and Redmayne was rated as one of the best goalkeeping prospects in the country. Now look at them all. Do you think it's a coincidence?

The real world isn't FIFA, players don't have some overall number and that's how good they are. They have a set of skills, and it's up to the manager to get the most of a player's skill set. Under the right system even a very average player can be a star. I hate to use the West Sydney example again, but it illustrated my example pretty well. Or what about when Hiddink took over the Socceroos. And the reverse applies as well, under the wrong system even a star can be a very average player. Apart from the tactical aspect, there's also the motivational aspect. Even if a manager isn't that great a tactician, they can do well just by motivating their team well and extracting greater performances from their players.

So the point I'm making is a player's performance is highly dependant on the manager, and whenb we have a squad full of players who have previously played well and now they all play like trash, surely we have to consider that the problem is the manager?

 

 

Fact is, there is too much fanboy support of players when they are signed. The glass is nearly always half full when it comes to judging player signings, for instance:

 

- The original signing of Redmayne mid-season, when Clint Bolton was the no 1, was widely supported by supporters

- The re-signing of Redmayne on a long-term contract until mid-2016, by JA after playing ok for half a season in 2012-13, was widely supported by supporters (the suggestion that JVS re-signed Redmayne is wrong. JVS re-signed Velaphi for 1 season)

- Supporters were nearly all happy with the signing of Ramsay before the 2013-14 season:

- Supporters were nearly all happy with the signing of Murdocca for 2 seasons

- Supporters widely supported the re-signing of Kisnorbo for this season

- Supporters nearly all were happy with the re-signing of Williams inside the salary cap for 2 season

 

What does this show? That supporters don't get everything right (come on, fess up), and tend to overestimate the signings that their own club makes.

 

The fact is last season's squad was wildly unbalanced and failed consequently. Aloisi was the main cause of last season's failure, but the team had serious structural weaknesses as well. And supporters understood this as well, with many wanting no more than 3 players of last season's squad of 23 to be kept by the club. Surprising how opinions change.

 

If the manager is the be all end all of a team's success, why are the Western Sydney Wanderers, who are of course still being coached by Tony Popovic, dead last, on less points than Melbourne Heart had after 14 games last season? Popovic is having a shitter season than Aloisi did last season. Explain that.

 

And if there was ever an A-League season that proved that the playing list is of crucial importance, if not IMO the most important factor to a team's success, it is this season. Just look at the ladder:

 

* The top 3-4 teams, Perth, victory, Adelaide, Wellington, have the best and most balanced squads in the league. They are all solid in every area on the pitch (defence, midfield, attack), have got their Visa spots right and their 2 marquees have played most games.

 

* Now look at the bottom 3 teams: 10th: Wanderers, 9th: Newcastle Jets, 8th: Central Coast Mariners. These are all teams that lost important players going into this season, and all of their recruitment has been crap and unbalanced. All of these teams even went so far as to cut multiple players mid-season, because they had so much deadweight.

 

 

So this argument that the squad isn't of critical importance to an A-League team's success fails to explain why most teams occupy the position on the ladder that they do.

 

 

To put my argument simply: I don't think Jose Mourinho would have managed a win last night with the players at our disposal. And I don't think any coach would manage to finish better than 4th or 5th this season given the dead-last squad that the incoming coach had to inherit. 

 

I'm sure that next season Melbourne City will do much better, because half of the rebuild after last season is done, and I'd say the team only needs about 6 signings to be highly competitive next season, whereas the team recruited 13 players this season to progress from being dead-last to mid-table. Next season with 6 signing I'm sure that the team will progress from being mid-table to around the top of the table. Because as this season has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, squads matter, and the days of teams with good coaches and bad teams getting some success (if these days actually ever existed) are well and truly over.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Murfy1

[KSK_47]

 

So this argument that the squad isn't of critical importance to an A-League team's success fails to explain why most teams occupy the position on the ladder that they do.

 

 

 

 

 

I just really don't think there are 6 teams better than us, because when you scrutinise other A-League teams as much as Melbourne City have been scrutinised, you see that all A-League teams have significant weaknesses. So whilst I acknowledge our team has some key vulnerabilities, I just don't think they are that big a deal when you compare us with the other teams. 

 

I personally don't think there are more than 2 or maybe 3 teams that will go better than Melbourne City next season, and that's a key reason why I've tipped a 3rd place finish. And I reckon it would be pushing it to say there are 4 teams clearly better than Melbourne City.

 

 

 

Next excuse please Murf

[Kiro Kompiro]

@Murphy.  I really hope that we do not waste another pre-season and allow JVS to do the recruiting.  We need a a clean break and a fresh approach and to do that JVS needs to go at the end of the season.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Kiro Kompiro

[n i k o]

There's things I like about JVS and things I don't like. But Murphy you have to agree that the fact that the players didn't come out wired and ready to go is partly JVS responsibility. And the Ramsey decision could be the worst decision that I've seen from him in his history of coaching at this club. I feel he was as much to blame for last night as the players were. The boys should have come out ready to rip limb from limb but instead we got that poor performance last night.

There's no reason why the players aren't thinking the same thing we are. I know if I saaw Ramsey playing over Williams I'd be pissed off before I went out there to play.

[NewConvert]

 

 

 

 

 

Surely no one can say the list is no good any more?

 

The list is not good enough.

 

At least, the list is not good enough to beat 2nd place victory, who are annoyingly looking good this year and are joint title favourites with Perth. Victory have only lost 2 games this season (once to us, at AAMI, and once to 1st place Perth), so this derby was always going to be a headache.

 

And the injury list, Paartalu, Dugandzic, Velaphi, Garuccio, Brown, Wielaert, and seemingly Mauk, Marino, Germano, is too onerous on a squad with the likes of Ramsay, Redmayne and Murdocca in it.

 

The squad still needs a significant cleanout.

 

I love this bloke. Gotta hand it to you Murf, despite all logocal and statistical evidence you don't bend on your opinions. I like and appreciate stubbornness.

 

 

Well I guess someone has to balance out the cult-like Anti-JVS brigade.

 

 

I look forward to seeing the superstardom that Redmayne, Ramsay, Wielaert, Murdocca, Williams, Dugandzic and Germano will go on to achieve once they come across a new coach.

 

Fact is, when we signed each of those players, people were happy and thought each of those would be important players (apart from Redmayne I guess). Most of them had very good track records before coming here, Williams was the best player in an A-league team, Murdocca an important player in a title winning side, Dugandzic was a pretty highly rated player everyone thought was on his way to Europe instead of us, Ramsay was considered a good A-League player, Wielaert has played at a high level and where he played last reads well on paper (never saw how he actually performed so dont know how he was actually going), Germano is a talented footbalelr as we have seen, and Redmayne was rated as one of the best goalkeeping prospects in the country. Now look at them all. Do you think it's a coincidence?

The real world isn't FIFA, players don't have some overall number and that's how good they are. They have a set of skills, and it's up to the manager to get the most of a player's skill set. Under the right system even a very average player can be a star. I hate to use the West Sydney example again, but it illustrated my example pretty well. Or what about when Hiddink took over the Socceroos. And the reverse applies as well, under the wrong system even a star can be a very average player. Apart from the tactical aspect, there's also the motivational aspect. Even if a manager isn't that great a tactician, they can do well just by motivating their team well and extracting greater performances from their players.

So the point I'm making is a player's performance is highly dependant on the manager, and whenb we have a squad full of players who have previously played well and now they all play like trash, surely we have to consider that the problem is the manager?

 

 

Fact is, there is too much fanboy support of players when they are signed. The glass is nearly always half full when it comes to judging player signings, for instance:

 

- The original signing of Redmayne mid-season, when Clint Bolton was the no 1, was widely supported by supporters

- The re-signing of Redmayne on a long-term contract until mid-2016, by JA after playing ok for half a season in 2012-13, was widely supported by supporters (the suggestion that JVS re-signed Redmayne is wrong. JVS re-signed Velaphi for 1 season)

- Supporters were nearly all happy with the signing of Ramsay before the 2013-14 season:

- Supporters were nearly all happy with the signing of Murdocca for 2 seasons

- Supporters widely supported the re-signing of Kisnorbo for this season

- Supporters nearly all were happy with the re-signing of Williams inside the salary cap for 2 season

 

What does this show? That supporters don't get everything right (come on, fess up), and tend to overestimate the signings that their own club makes.

 

The fact is last season's squad was wildly unbalanced and failed consequently. Aloisi was the main cause of last season's failure, but the team had serious structural weaknesses as well. And supporters understood this as well, with many wanting no more than 3 players of last season's squad of 23 to be kept by the club. Surprising how opinions change.

 

If the manager is the be all end all of a team's success, why are the Western Sydney Wanderers, who are of course still being coached by Tony Popovic, dead last, on less points than Melbourne Heart had after 14 games last season? Popovic is having a shitter season than Aloisi did last season. Explain that.

 

And if there was ever an A-League season that proved that the playing list is of crucial importance, if not IMO the most important factor to a team's success, it is this season. Just look at the ladder:

 

* The top 3-4 teams, Perth, victory, Adelaide, Wellington, have the best and most balanced squads in the league. They are all solid in every area on the pitch (defence, midfield, attack), have got their Visa spots right and their 2 marquees have played most games.

 

* Now look at the bottom 3 teams: 10th: Wanderers, 9th: Newcastle Jets, 8th: Central Coast Mariners. These are all teams that lost important players going into this season, and all of their recruitment has been crap and unbalanced. All of these teams even went so far as to cut multiple players mid-season, because they had so much deadweight.

 

 

So this argument that the squad isn't of critical importance to an A-League team's success fails to explain why most teams occupy the position on the ladder that they do.

 

 

To put my argument simply: I don't think Jose Mourinho would have managed a win last night with the players at our disposal. And I don't think any coach would manage to finish better than 4th or 5th this season given the dead-last squad that the incoming coach had to inherit. 

 

I'm sure that next season Melbourne City will do much better, because half of the rebuild after last season is done, and I'd say the team only needs about 6 signings to be highly competitive next season, whereas the team recruited 13 players this season to progress from being dead-last to mid-table. Next season with 6 signing I'm sure that the team will progress from being mid-table to around the top of the table. Because as this season has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, squads matter, and the days of teams with good coaches and bad teams getting some success (if these days actually ever existed) are well and truly over.

 

 

Yes the squad does matter as well as the coaching staff. The squad is unbalanced but all throughout the season we have known that our defensive stocks were low and that should never have come to pass if the recruiting is done right. I suspect that JVS decided that if we have a good mid-field then that means that the high pressing would overcome the low defensive stocks. And given that JVS was at the club as a caretaker coach he has to have take some  responsibility for the unbalanced squad.

The second issue that needs to be faced is to question why proven performers such as Murdocca or players with potential such as Redmayne aren't delivering. I have questioned before about the club's ability to develop young talent. In season one the club developed players such as Curtis Good but under JA the club lost this ability. Right now, the question has to be why isn't JVS able to extract the best out of the players.

 

You are right regarding fans ability to predict the quality of the playing roster. We have all made mistakes regarding the ability or responsibility of that a player has on the pitch. I wanted to keep Kirsnorbo because he was the only player last season that showed a bit of mongrel and wasn't a complete dud. This season with the added responsibility of being captain he has let down the side.

 

But come next week we have the playi9ng roster that we do and the coach that we have. If CFG want or need to make a change then it has to be JVS. And the coach that successfully experimented last season upon his return i now but a distant, albeit fond, memory.

[Red or Dead]

 

 

 

 

 

Surely no one can say the list is no good any more?

 

The list is not good enough.

 

At least, the list is not good enough to beat 2nd place victory, who are annoyingly looking good this year and are joint title favourites with Perth. Victory have only lost 2 games this season (once to us, at AAMI, and once to 1st place Perth), so this derby was always going to be a headache.

 

And the injury list, Paartalu, Dugandzic, Velaphi, Garuccio, Brown, Wielaert, and seemingly Mauk, Marino, Germano, is too onerous on a squad with the likes of Ramsay, Redmayne and Murdocca in it.

 

The squad still needs a significant cleanout.

 

I love this bloke. Gotta hand it to you Murf, despite all logocal and statistical evidence you don't bend on your opinions. I like and appreciate stubbornness.

 

 

Well I guess someone has to balance out the cult-like Anti-JVS brigade.

 

 

I look forward to seeing the superstardom that Redmayne, Ramsay, Wielaert, Murdocca, Williams, Dugandzic and Germano will go on to achieve once they come across a new coach.

 

Fact is, when we signed each of those players, people were happy and thought each of those would be important players (apart from Redmayne I guess). Most of them had very good track records before coming here, Williams was the best player in an A-league team, Murdocca an important player in a title winning side, Dugandzic was a pretty highly rated player everyone thought was on his way to Europe instead of us, Ramsay was considered a good A-League player, Wielaert has played at a high level and where he played last reads well on paper (never saw how he actually performed so dont know how he was actually going), Germano is a talented footbalelr as we have seen, and Redmayne was rated as one of the best goalkeeping prospects in the country. Now look at them all. Do you think it's a coincidence?

The real world isn't FIFA, players don't have some overall number and that's how good they are. They have a set of skills, and it's up to the manager to get the most of a player's skill set. Under the right system even a very average player can be a star. I hate to use the West Sydney example again, but it illustrated my example pretty well. Or what about when Hiddink took over the Socceroos. And the reverse applies as well, under the wrong system even a star can be a very average player. Apart from the tactical aspect, there's also the motivational aspect. Even if a manager isn't that great a tactician, they can do well just by motivating their team well and extracting greater performances from their players.

So the point I'm making is a player's performance is highly dependant on the manager, and whenb we have a squad full of players who have previously played well and now they all play like trash, surely we have to consider that the problem is the manager?

Fact is, there is too much fanboy support of players when they are signed. The glass is nearly always half full when it comes to judging player signings, for instance:

 

- The original signing of Redmayne mid-season, when Clint Bolton was the no 1, was widely supported by supporters - I was pissed off how Bolton was dropped! Saved more penalties in that season than Ramsay saved in his career.

- The re-signing of Redmayne on a long-term contract until mid-2016, by JA after playing ok for half a season in 2012-13, was widely supported by supporters (the suggestion that JVS re-signed Redmayne is wrong. JVS re-signed Velaphi for 1 season) - Redders was still riding the "nice bloke" wave (similar to Germano).

- Supporters were nearly all happy with the signing of Ramsay before the 2013-14 season: I remember most us wondering why would ANY player come to the Heart? Now we know why...

- Supporters were nearly all happy with the signing of Murdocca for 2 seasons - still am, he's a good squad player and a workhorse on the field!

- Supporters widely supported the re-signing of Kisnorbo for this season - He wasn't that bad last year...it seems the captaincy maybe is weighing him down a la Colosimo?

- Supporters nearly all were happy with the re-signing of Williams inside the salary cap for 2 season - Well considering he was occupying the "Australian Marquee" spot, I think we were cheering the fact he no longer occupied that spot as opposed to getting signed for 2 season

 

What does this show? That supporters don't get everything right (come on, fess up), and tend to overestimate the signings that their own club makes. - Nope, that ain't me!

[Murfy1]

Nice to have someone going to the effort to go back and quote my predictions. A lot has happened since the 22nd of August 2014, with clubs both making (and not making) important signings. I tipped a hotly contested A-League season, like many did, and didn't predict that 4 teams would run away with it (which many people also didn't predict. No one predicted Perth to do so well, if only because, like me, we all though coach Lowe would lead hold the team back, like he seemed to last season. It turns out the coach wasn't that important).

 

I still think Melbourne City will finish higher up the ladder than where we currently are, and will ruffle a few feathers in the finals.

 

I agree that the lack of intensity from the players yesterday can be partly blamed on JVS. But I reckon it's a reminder that all the players needed to play with massive intensity to give us a chance of beating victory yesterday, just as it took massive intensity from all 11 on the pitch to beat them in the Christmas derby.

 

You can't put Kisnorbo's grave error on the coach though, like Ramsay's horrible misses last week. And if Kisnorbo didn't have such a big stuff up on 10 minutes perhaps we maybe could have scrapped a draw. IMO the performance of players and key errors (such as Kisnorbo's), and key injuries, to Paartalu, Velaphi and all decent LW options (Dugandzic, Brown, Garuccio) just made winning yesterday too tough a task, which is why no pundit anywhere tipped a Melbourne City win going into the game (and those predictions were made before Paartalu was announced out of the team!).

 

The Ramsay situation was an interesting one. It was a mistake to start him, but I don't think Williams would have made any real difference on the outcome if he did start (the 60 plus minutes he played provided no suggestion that he would have). I don't mind the coaches making an example of a player, in particular a consistently under-performing player like Ramsay (he is a professional after all; the coaches aren't there to make him and other players feel warm and fuzzy. They are there to get the players to win). Also, the only players that weren't subbed on were Retre and Stevanja, so since neither of those players should have been subbed on IMO we didn't really waste a sub. So all up it was a mistake to start Ramsay, but it was more academic than a consequential mistake.

 

 

Barring an awful losing streak, JVS will continue on as coach until the end of the season, no matter what any outsiders think. So people can get themselves in a tizzy or not, because there is no strong argument for a coach change at this point (mid-season coach changes to mid-table sides rarely stabilise and improve teams), and CFG aren't quick to sack coaches anyway. At the end of the season CFG will assess JVS based on his performance over the whole season, and he will either stay or go. And with the 7 month pre-season the coach for next season can remake the team ahead of next season in the way that he wants, so we won't 'waste' another pre-season. Therefore, argue as we might about the coaches, it will all be rather academic until the end of the season, barring a catastrophic series of results by the team.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Murfy1

[kingofhearts]

We all knew ( myself anyway) that this was going to be a 2-3 year process of fixing up the club on and off the field. Is already been explained previously that their was precious deadwood signed to long term contracts by JA, so you can only clear out so much dead wood per season.

 

However, their is no excuse for continuously playing Ramsay. Even blind freddy can see that he is just not up to it, and then to take him off 20 mins into the game seriously what the actual fuck? Why not just start him on the bench and then bring him on later ffs.

 

Balls in your court now JVS, these next 3 games will make or break your career

[sheepdog]

We all knew ( myself anyway) that this was going to be a 2-3 year process of fixing up the club on and off the field. Is already been explained previously that their was precious deadwood signed to long term contracts by JA, so you can only clear out so much dead wood per season.

 

However, their is no excuse for continuously playing Ramsay. Even blind freddy can see that he is just not up to it, and then to take him off 20 mins into the game seriously what the actual fuck? Why not just start him on the bench and then bring him on later ffs.

 

Balls in your court now JVS, these next 3 games will make or break your career

Get that $50 ready pal.

[KSK_47]

 

You can't put Kisnorbo's grave error on the coach though, like Ramsay's horrible misses last week. And if Kisnorbo didn't have such a big stuff up on 10 minutes perhaps we maybe could have scrapped a draw. 

 

 

Just to be clear. I am not blaming particular instances on JVS. What I blame him for is the OVERALL performance. And OVERALL (including the first stint) he has not done anywhere near enough for people to defend him in any way shape or form. Especially for an imported coach.

 

I do agree that sadly, he isnt going to be given the arse any time soon (particularly while people are still going to make excuses for his poor track record). So yeah, all we can do is get in a tizzy and then either one day he gets the can and I say "I told you so. I cant believe we wasted all that time on that loser", or he manages to somehow turn things around and you can say "I told you so. All those embarrassing losses and dreadful football we sat through for all those years were worth it."

[kingofhearts]

 

We all knew ( myself anyway) that this was going to be a 2-3 year process of fixing up the club on and off the field. Is already been explained previously that their was precious deadwood signed to long term contracts by JA, so you can only clear out so much dead wood per season.

 

However, their is no excuse for continuously playing Ramsay. Even blind freddy can see that he is just not up to it, and then to take him off 20 mins into the game seriously what the actual fuck? Why not just start him on the bench and then bring him on later ffs.

 

Balls in your court now JVS, these next 3 games will make or break your career

Get that $50 ready pal.

 

Might just go down to the imp next week and pay it out early if this form continues 

[KSK_47]

 

 

Balls in your court now JVS, these next 3 games will make or break your career

 

If you had $1 every time someone has said that you could pay Cad that 50

[kingofhearts]

 

 

 

Balls in your court now JVS, these next 3 games will make or break your career

 

If you had $1 every time someone has said that you could pay Cad that 50

 

JVS is just making our bet interesting. He won't drop another game all seaons #believeinjvs

[Red or Dead]

He's JvS = He's Just very S....

[KSK_47]

Balls in your court now JVS, these next 3 games will make or break your career

 

If you had $1 every time someone has said that you could pay Cad that 50

JVS is just making our bet interesting. He won't drop another game all seaons #believeinjvs

"Well you said you wanted exiting football!"

[stewmac]

 

 

 

Balls in your court now JVS, these next 3 games will make or break your career

 

If you had $1 every time someone has said that you could pay Cad that 50 JVS is just making our bet interesting. He won't drop another game all seaons #believeinjvs

"Well you said you wanted exiting football!"

 

i think we all want to exit

[KSK_47]

Balls in your court now JVS, these next 3 games will make or break your career

 

If you had $1 every time someone has said that you could pay Cad that 50 JVS is just making our bet interesting. He won't drop another game all seaons #believeinjvs

"Well you said you wanted exiting football!"

i think we all want to exit

Haha. Stupid auto correct.

But yes. I certainty want that

[cadete]

We all know what the last stage of being a desparate unemployable Heart/City Personnel Member is... reading this bloody forum.

 

Just like when JA and JD recruited Mispud prior to last season and now it appears that JVS has taken it a step further and logged in mid game and read the Iain Ramsey Thread.

 

FFS its time for this guy to go... his run out of ideas.

Edited February 8, 2015 by cadete

[jw1739]

Well I'm interested Murf in your prediction that we will finish higher than we are currently, which is 6th.

 

We have 19 points after 15 matches. Assuming that we have the same rate of success in our remaining 12 matches would see us gain an additional 15 points for a total of 34. Based on the past two seasons that would see us finish anywhere between 6th and 8th. 

 

We have just 5 home matches remaining (against Perth, Adelaide, Newcastle, Brisbane and Wellington) and 7 away matches (against Wellington, Central Coast, Western Sydney,Sydney, Western Sydney again, Perth and Adelaide). Only five of our matches are against teams currently below us. I would say that that is quite a difficult fixture list in front of us, and we will do very well if we can glean 15 points out of it.

 

IMO it is going to take a big improvement in attitude and application from the club as a whole for us even to finish 6th.

[NewConvert]

Well I'm interested Murf in your prediction that we will finish higher than we are currently, which is 6th.

 

We have 19 points after 15 matches. Assuming that we have the same rate of success in our remaining 12 matches would see us gain an additional 15 points for a total of 34. Based on the past two seasons that would see us finish anywhere between 6th and 8th. 

 

We have just 5 home matches remaining (against Perth, Adelaide, Newcastle, Brisbane and Wellington) and 7 away matches (against Wellington, Central Coast, Western Sydney,Sydney, Western Sydney again, Perth and Adelaide). Only five of our matches are against teams currently below us. I would say that that is quite a difficult fixture list in front of us, and we will do very well if we can glean 15 points out of it.

 

IMO it is going to take a big improvement in attitude and application from the club as a whole for us even to finish 6th.

 

And just as crucially to stop getting injuries to so many players. FFS it seems that this club can't have a week without a new player becoming injured for 2-3 weeks.

[SF33]

The Ramsay situation was an interesting one. It was a mistake to start him, but I don't think Williams would have made any real difference on the outcome if he did start (the 60 plus minutes he played provided no suggestion that he would have). I don't mind the coaches making an example of a player, in particular a consistently under-performing player like Ramsay (he is a professional after all; the coaches aren't there to make him and other players feel warm and fuzzy. They are there to get the players to win). Also, the only players that weren't subbed on were Retre and Stevanja, so since neither of those players should have been subbed on IMO we didn't really waste a sub. So all up it was a mistake to start Ramsay, but it was more academic than a consequential mistake.

 

We didn't, but we risked doing it, if we'd copped a red card or an injury. You can make sensible decisions and unfortunately get a bad outcome, or you can make dumb decisions and fluke a good outcome. But the balance of probabilities is that it's sensible decisions that you want your manager making and if he does that consistently, you're going to come up trumps more often than not.

 

And as for the balanced squads up the top...I don't know. Victory's defence sure doesn't look like it's loaded with world-beaters to me.

Edited February 8, 2015 by SF33

[Heart_fan]

There's definitely questions required for his selections in this game, and motivation of players to get up for this match.

Ramsey starting and then being dragged in the first half? Playing Safuwan in a role he seemed uncomfortable with? Korean playing in a role he also does not seem comfortable with, not getting value from?

We have limited options at this point I agree, but it just seemed like a line up that was bound to fail last night.

[silva10]

 

Surely no one can say the list is no good any more?

 

The list is not good enough.

 

At least, the list is not good enough to beat 2nd place victory, who are annoyingly looking good this year and are joint title favourites with Perth. Victory have only lost 2 games this season (once to us, at AAMI, and once to 1st place Perth), so this derby was always going to be a headache.

 

And the injury list, Paartalu, Dugandzic, Velaphi, Garuccio, Brown, Wielaert, and seemingly Mauk, Marino, Germano, is too onerous on a squad with the likes of Ramsay, Redmayne and Murdocca in it.

 

The squad still needs a significant cleanout.

 

 

It does Murfy and with 10 players out of contract at the end of the season there will be a big upheaval in the squad.

 

With this in mind do you have faith in JVS recruitment and ability to be a successful coach? I am afraid I do not, so am hoping as well as the players being changed, I hope the management changes as well.

[silva10]

Nice to have someone going to the effort to go back and quote my predictions. A lot has happened since the 22nd of August 2014, with clubs both making (and not making) important signings. I tipped a hotly contested A-League season, like many did, and didn't predict that 4 teams would run away with it (which many people also didn't predict. No one predicted Perth to do so well, if only because, like me, we all though coach Lowe would lead hold the team back, like he seemed to last season. It turns out the coach wasn't that important).

 

I still think Melbourne City will finish higher up the ladder than where we currently are, and will ruffle a few feathers in the finals.

 

I agree that the lack of intensity from the players yesterday can be partly blamed on JVS. But I reckon it's a reminder that all the players needed to play with massive intensity to give us a chance of beating victory yesterday, just as it took massive intensity from all 11 on the pitch to beat them in the Christmas derby.

 

You can't put Kisnorbo's grave error on the coach though, like Ramsay's horrible misses last week. And if Kisnorbo didn't have such a big stuff up on 10 minutes perhaps we maybe could have scrapped a draw. IMO the performance of players and key errors (such as Kisnorbo's), and key injuries, to Paartalu, Velaphi and all decent LW options (Dugandzic, Brown, Garuccio) just made winning yesterday too tough a task, which is why no pundit anywhere tipped a Melbourne City win going into the game (and those predictions were made before Paartalu was announced out of the team!).

 

The Ramsay situation was an interesting one. It was a mistake to start him, but I don't think Williams would have made any real difference on the outcome if he did start (the 60 plus minutes he played provided no suggestion that he would have). I don't mind the coaches making an example of a player, in particular a consistently under-performing player like Ramsay (he is a professional after all; the coaches aren't there to make him and other players feel warm and fuzzy. They are there to get the players to win). Also, the only players that weren't subbed on were Retre and Stevanja, so since neither of those players should have been subbed on IMO we didn't really waste a sub. So all up it was a mistake to start Ramsay, but it was more academic than a consequential mistake.

 

 

Barring an awful losing streak, JVS will continue on as coach until the end of the season, no matter what any outsiders think. So people can get themselves in a tizzy or not, because there is no strong argument for a coach change at this point (mid-season coach changes to mid-table sides rarely stabilise and improve teams), and CFG aren't quick to sack coaches anyway. At the end of the season CFG will assess JVS based on his performance over the whole season, and he will either stay or go. And with the 7 month pre-season the coach for next season can remake the team ahead of next season in the way that he wants, so we won't 'waste' another pre-season. Therefore, argue as we might about the coaches, it will all be rather academic until the end of the season, barring a catastrophic series of results by the team.

 

My prediction was 6th as I wasn't convinced we had a good enough platform to build on for this season.

 

At the moment I feel Brisbane will overtake us and 7th will be the best we can achieve. We have absolutely no chance of finishing higher.

 

I agree that JVS will stay until the end of the season unless he resigns. However, I doubt if he will stay any longer especially if we finish out of the play offs

[morphine]

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

To get to that stage I believe we need a hard-nosed coach who will bark at the players and instill a strong sense of mongrel/desire/attitude. I don't believe this type of manager is suited to teams 'at the top'.

Therefore I would like to see us bring in a bullish assistant who would ideally be the players manager for the short term, with JVS having more of a high end role.

Once the time comes and we develop a proper fucking winning mentality we can then re-address JVS and the assistant's role.

That would be how I'd address this mediocre situation.

[KSK_47]

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

To get to that stage I believe we need a hard-nosed coach who will bark at the players and instill a strong sense of mongrel/desire/attitude. I don't believe this type of manager is suited to teams 'at the top'.

Therefore I would like to see us bring in a bullish assistant who would ideally be the players manager for the short term, with JVS having more of a high end role.

Once the time comes and we develop a proper fucking winning mentality we can then re-address JVS and the assistant's role.

That would be how I'd address this mediocre situation.

Lol. So basically what you are saying is if he had a squad of players and an assistant that could do his job for him, he would be good at his job.

Fuck me, this forum makes my head spin sometimes.

Edited February 8, 2015 by KSK_47

[Jestr]

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

Therefore I would like to see us bring in a bullish assistant who would ideally be the players manager for the short term, with JVS having more of a high end role.

You seriously would reward him with a High End role at club considering he can't manage poor performing players at the grass roots level??

Do you work in a government job by any chance??

[jw1739]

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

 

So would all of us on here.

[Peter]

 

I think JVS would be an exceptional manager of a team full of stars, who know the ropes and are self-reliant.

To get to that stage I believe we need a hard-nosed coach who will bark at the players and instill a strong sense of mongrel/desire/attitude. I don't believe this type of manager is suited to teams 'at the top'.

Therefore I would like to see us bring in a bullish assistant who would ideally be the players manager for the short term, with JVS having more of a high end role.

Once the time comes and we develop a proper fucking winning mentality we can then re-address JVS and the assistant's role.

That would be how I'd address this mediocre situation.

Lol. So basically what you are saying is if he had a squad of players and an assistant that could do his job for him, he would be good at his job.

Fuck me, this forum makes my head spin sometimes.

Seems to have worked for both Popovic and Ange. Oh, what could have been if Ante was given the head coach position rather than JA...

[morphine]

What I'm saying is that - as an analogy - he wouldn't be able to keep QPR from the drop, but he'd take Man City to the title. Big difference in the way both teams need to be managed.

[Jestr]

Big difference in the way both teams need to be managed.

I agree with you on this point.

As for jvs taking man city to the title........please go and eat some soap

[jw1739]

In this discussion IMO a lot of van 't Schip supporters are forgetting that he took over at Christmas 2013. He had the second half of last season and the off-season to get the squad right, and this season to get the squad motivated and playing well. He has the backing of CFG. He has hand-picked assistant coaches.

 

Yes, of course there is some carry-over from the previous season - that is the case with any football club. But I cannot see that as Head Coach he is anything but accountable.

 

To have Melbourne City "not turn up" and be "flat" for of all things a Melbourne Derby is just not acceptable.

[thisphantomfortress]

To have Melbourne City "not turn up" and be "flat" for of all things a Melbourne Derby is just not acceptable.

 

This. I had been on the fence about JVS for a while now but after the disgrace that was Saturday I'm in the out camp. Muscut had the Tards fired up, we just didn't show up and thats not ok.

[SF33]

 

To have Melbourne City "not turn up" and be "flat" for of all things a Melbourne Derby is just not acceptable.

 

This. I had been on the fence about JVS for a while now but after the disgrace that was Saturday I'm in the out camp. Muscut had the Tards fired up, we just didn't show up and thats not ok.

 

 

Even if we were 20 points off the top six that isn't acceptable in a derby. It's disgraceful and our performances at Etihad this year could go a very long way to, not only wrecking our chances, but also handing our hated rivals a couple of pieces of silverware at the end of the season, the way things are going in the league.