Our Marquee Man...

millm103 · August 29, 2013

Marlon King was just released by Birmingham...... Quite expensive but would be a quality striker up front to bang them in!

Nate · August 29, 2013

Marlon King was just released by Birmingham...... Quite expensive but would be a quality striker up front to bang them in!

He'd be good for a couple of a games before he gets suspended or goes to jail again, quality footballer but his off-field antics are something we can do without.

Murfy1 · August 29, 2013

Interesting from the Age. Predictions?
Melbourne Heart is hoping to learn by Friday lunchtime whether it will be without marquee signing Orlando Engelaar for the remainder of the season following the Dutchman's nightmare debut for the club in Lismore at the weekend.
Engelaar sustained a broken leg in a challenge early in the pre-season friendly defeat against Brisbane Roar. With his surgery set for Thursday night, Heart has been told it will know by Friday lunchtime how long the former Netherlands international will be out for. The best case scenario is three months – which is unlikely, and the worst case seven months, which would effectively rule Englelaar out for the entire campaign.
His injury leaves Heart in a difficult situation regarding both personnel and team structure.
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John Aloisi, the Heart coach, planned to build his midfield around the tall Dutchman, using him as the pivot behind a front four with Massimo Murdocca as the box to box player alongside. As football manager John Didulica said on Thursday, "Engelaar is the type of player we have been looking for for a long time."
Heart will get insurance cover on the bulk of Engelaar's salary, but until they know how long he will be missing they are unable to move to sign a replacement – even if they could find a like-for-like substitute, which, the club believes, would be all but impossible.
If Engelaar is out for the whole season they will look overseas for a quality midfield anchor, although finding one at this stage of the year – with just six weeks left before the A-League season starts – is a big ask.
If the Dutchman is likely to be back halfway through the campaign their job is equally difficult, as they will have to find a high class player to take his spot but only on a short-term deal, unless they can find a way to fit such a player in under the salary cap.
In the short term they could change their shape and use Argentinian utility Jonathan Germano alongside Murdocca, but there would be a saminess about such a pairing. Both are small, industrious, hard workers adept at breaking up the play but not, hitherto at least, seen as creative, deep-lying types.
The other possibility is that Patrick Gerhardt could be moved into the Engelaar slot. The Swiss-born Liberian was used last year, his first season with the club, as a centre back but he was actually signed as a holding midfielder, a position he has played through much of his career.
If the 28-year-old did move into the centre of the park, Aloisi could use teenage centre back David Vrankovic as first choice this year, although his involvement with the Olyroos and under-20 side means he might miss a lot of games.
An alternative would be to sign another centre half – or even look to get one in on loan. Heart sold youngster Curtis Good to Premier League side Newcastle United a year ago, and have in the past inquired about getting him back on a loan deal, without success. That is probably less likely now given that Good made his debut for the Magpies overnight in a Capital One Cup tie against lower tier Morecambe, a game that Newcastle won 2-0 with two late goals.
He clearly impressed, as one Newcastle fan website poll ranked him the team's third best player on the night while manager Alan Pardew said he was one of a handful of players to whom he was particularly indebted for the win.

Hoping we sign another marquee, not confident that we will.

Just from a fan's and a paid-up member's perspective...I think it would not be right to just give up because Engelaar has broken his leg. Until a couple of weeks ago he wasn't even on our books. He could have easily gone back to Holland and decided not to come here, or been made another and better offer.

So if we were staking everything on his signature then we didn't have the right approach. There should have been a Plan B, Plan C and so on, and we ought to be looking at those alternatives now. Sure there might not be someone out there with quite the pedigree of Orlando, but FFS he is not the only fish in the pond. Other clubs sign players from all over the place - Costa Rica, Spain, etc. We've had players on trial and let them go through our fingers.

Not only that, Engelaar could have played a few games for us and then done a hammy or something like that, so we should have had a Plan B for that situation.

Last season it was Josip Tadic and Grella who were going to destroy the league for us, this year it was Engelaar...time we moved to realising that nothing ever works out exactly the way you want it to.

You're spot on mate, I'd like to think that we have a Plan B or at least are currently coming up with a suitable one but to me it sounds like we were putting all of our eggs into the one basket by developing a gameplan that revolves around Engelaar being the central pivot of our formation.

I really do hope that we still have viable targets available from Aloisi and Foxe's scouting mission over the off-season but as stated in the article, it's going to be a massive test for the club with only 6 weeks remaining and the European transfer window almost shut.

The problem with the argument that a team should have a Plan B, a Plan C and so on is that there would be little reason for a club to sign a marquee if that club already had such fantastic depth. If we already had several very good midfielders, then a marquee like Engelaar would have been superfluous. It would be like us signing a marquee winger, despite us already having numerous capable wingers. The whole point behind signing a marquee is that that marquee will make big difference, so IMO it doesn't make sense to blame the club for ambitiously signing Engelaar and having expectations for him.

If Ono was injured, the Wanderers midfield would be massively worse. If Heskey was injured, the Jets would be much weaker in the final third. If Sydney didn't have Del Piero, the club would score a lot less goals. All these clubs would suffer a big dip in quality if there respective marquees were injured, but unfortunately we lucked out with our marquee suffering a freak accident.

I agree that a team shouldn't be over-reliant on a marquee, but at the same time marquees can't be luxuries for A-League clubs; they have to be important to the team. And overall, losing a DM like Engelaar doesn't massively weaken the whole team, it just weakens us in midfield to a degree.

In my judgement, our midfield is currently pretty solid, and we have a few different options. We have decent depth regarding the attacking midfielder position, with Kewell, Kalmar and Mauk all being respectable options. Given that the season is only 27 games long, I'm confident that there's enough talent between those 3 to cover the whole season. While regarding our 2 defensive midfielder positions we have Murdocca, Germano and Gerhardt. The first two I'd call solid, but not spectacular, and I'd say Gerhardt would be excellent defensively in midfield. So with those 3, our 2 DMs should provide solid defensive cover for the back four, but they might not be spectacular when it comes to helping the ball up field.

So I'd like to see the club bring in a DM who's a pretty good passer, and can organise our possession and attacks from his DM position. And according to the article Michael Lynch published earlier today, the club is already looking at overseas options which would most likely perform those functions.

I don't think there's much of a moral behind Engelaar's injury, other than A) A-League clubs can't afford luxury marquees, B.) with only 23 spots in each squad every team is significantly weakened when players are out and strengthened when players and available (and great depth and many options are an impossibility), and C) shit happens.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Murfy1

Portillo · August 29, 2013

Blokes to replace Engelaar??
Mahamadou Diarra

One of my favourite players. Won four titles with Lyon and two at Real Madrid. Diarra can control the midfield with the best of them.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Portillo

Freeze Time · August 29, 2013

I think we can now all agree that signing Orlando was a massive mistake. If we would've done the right thing from the start and signed a Greek then there's no way he would've broken his leg. From now on Heart should only sign Greeks.

theresonlyonebzamora · August 29, 2013

Sums it up completely FT. We also should've let south melbourne run our club!

Jestr · August 29, 2013

I'm sure FT is joking.

I got no problems with Greeks but if I wanted to follow their colours and influence I would be wearing blue (or fluro) and singing from the north terrace all those years

No thank you!

sharpy · August 29, 2013

I'm sure FT is joking.
I got no problems with Greeks but if I wanted to follow their colours and influence I would be wearing blue (or fluro) and singing from the north terrace all those years
No thank you!

And all this time I thought they were of Finnish influence, silly me!

jw1739 · August 30, 2013

I'm not quite sure what conclusion you're finally coming to there Murf. I get the feeling that you're suggesting that best results are likely when the squad is more evenly balanced rather than, say, have one visa player on low wages (e.g. Germano) and another on "luxury marquee" wages (e.g. Engelaar). And I'd agree with you because the probability of injury is the same in both cases. Problem is that the cap tends to encourage clubs to sign "luxury marquees."

I think you're actually ending up agreeing with me on the Plan B issue. Take away Engelaar and our remaining midfielders ought to be capable of doing the job for us.

Our season is going to depend on how our coaching team responds rather than Engelaar's injury. And I wish I was more confident.

HEARTinator · August 30, 2013

I'm not quite sure what conclusion you're finally coming to there Murf. I get the feeling that you're suggesting that best results are likely when the squad is more evenly balanced rather than, say, have one visa player on low wages (e.g. Germano) and another on "luxury marquee" wages (e.g. Engelaar). And I'd agree with you because the probability of injury is the same in both cases. Problem is that the cap tends to encourage clubs to sign "luxury marquees."

I think you're actually ending up agreeing with me on the Plan B issue. Take away Engelaar and our remaining midfielders ought to be capable of doing the job for us.

Our season is going to depend on how our coaching team responds rather than Engelaar's injury. And I wish I was more confident.

Agree. My thoughts exactly as per a previous post. We have recruited pretty well even with Orlando out, so it's up to how JA motivates and uses the rest of the lads. Honestly, this should be an easier task than last season with the players we now have. Over to you JA and Foxe

theresonlyonebzamora · August 30, 2013

so they said we'd know by lunchtime today the extent of engelaar's layoff... having only really skimmed through threads today i'm assuming there's been no 'official' confirmation of this?

sharpy · August 30, 2013

so they said we'd know by lunchtime today the extent of engelaar's layoff... having only really skimmed through threads today i'm assuming there's been no 'official' confirmation of this?

Of course there hasn't.

Jimmy · August 30, 2013

I'd say they've know he's finished since the scans in Lismore.

KD. · August 30, 2013

I hope I see an article saying the FFA has helped us pay him out

Murfy1 · August 30, 2013

I'm not quite sure what conclusion you're finally coming to there Murf. I get the feeling that you're suggesting that best results are likely when the squad is more evenly balanced rather than, say, have one visa player on low wages (e.g. Germano) and another on "luxury marquee" wages (e.g. Engelaar). And I'd agree with you because the probability of injury is the same in both cases. Problem is that the cap tends to encourage clubs to sign "luxury marquees."

I think you're actually ending up agreeing with me on the Plan B issue. Take away Engelaar and our remaining midfielders ought to be capable of doing the job for us.

Our season is going to depend on how our coaching team responds rather than Engelaar's injury. And I wish I was more confident.

I think we agree a fair bit. I agree that a squad should be balanced, and should have good players in every position. I think I have a few differing opinions, though.

In my judgement, because A-League squads are so incredibly small (23 spots, 21 outfield), a team can't have great depth in one area (for example, midfield), without then lacking depth in another area (like defence).

Because of these small squad sizes, A-League clubs cannot afford luxury marquees, and for the good of A-League clubs even marquees have to play in positions where A-League clubs don't have much depth. WSW have okay midfielders, but Ono takes their midfield to another level. The same is true with the Jets and Sydney, whose marquees are crucial for them to regularly score goals. And now Victory are looking to sign Gallas, because Victory's defence is pretty weak. They would have a pretty strong defence if they signed Gallas, but their defence would be weak again if he was injured.

I agree that our Plan B Engelaar absent midfield is capable of doing a job for us. However, I do think our midfield might be less effective with possession and getting the ball up field, because Engelaar, our 'midfield general', is injured. So I wouldn't mind another midfielder who could strengthen us in that aspect of midfield play.

I'd like to hear more on how our whole season depends on how our coaching team responds to Engelaar's injury. Does our whole season depend on the coaches' response because Engelaar being out is such a big loss, or because our coaches may not be capable enough to form an effective midfield with our remaining midfielders? Since I agree with you that our midfield is capable of doing a job for us, I don't think the loss of Engelaar so significantly effects our whole season, it just means that we'll have a standard/good midfield instead of an awesome midfield (which probably would have been the best in the league).

Edited August 30, 2013 by Murfy1

jw1739 · August 30, 2013

Murf, it's because I think that our season depends on our coaching team irrespective of whether we have one particular player or not. Let's not kid ourselves, most of the other clubs (including the only team to finish beneath us) have reinforced their squads, so we are going to have to lift to a whole new level again this season to be competitive. The signs against Brisbane were not good - let's face it we did not wake up until Brisbane had the ball in the net - and we rarely threatened their goal. As I see it all aspects of our performance - motivation, fitness, speed of ball movement, control, passing accuracy, movement off the ball - all need improvement, and it is up to the coaching team to drive the squad to achieve.

Murfy1 · August 30, 2013

Murf, it's because I think that our season depends on our coaching team irrespective of whether we have one particular player or not. Let's not kid ourselves, most of the other clubs (including the only team to finish beneath us) have reinforced their squads, so we are going to have to lift to a whole new level again this season to be competitive. The signs against Brisbane were not good - let's face it we did not wake up until Brisbane had the ball in the net - and we rarely threatened their goal. As I see it all aspects of our performance - motivation, fitness, speed of ball movement, control, passing accuracy, movement off the ball - all need improvement, and it is up to the coaching team to drive the squad to achieve.

Agree, it's a decisive season for Aloisi and the coaching staff. I'm going to wait to see more pre-season games against A-League opposition before I judge where we're at, but indeed we do need to improve in many areas which are under the coaches' control, in particular how well we play outside of Victoria (our away form). I think that's why we've organised a good number of pre-season matches outside of Victoria, but still Aloisi and co. have a lot of work to do. It'll be interesting to see how they go.

biancorosso7 · September 1, 2013

Jonjo Shelvey already out of a starting position at Swansea.

Get him on a loan.

alexandro · September 1, 2013

Murf, it's because I think that our season depends on our coaching team irrespective of whether we have one particular player or not. Let's not kid ourselves, most of the other clubs (including the only team to finish beneath us) have reinforced their squads, so we are going to have to lift to a whole new level again this season to be competitive. The signs against Brisbane were not good - let's face it we did not wake up until Brisbane had the ball in the net - and we rarely threatened their goal. As I see it all aspects of our performance - motivation, fitness, speed of ball movement, control, passing accuracy, movement off the ball - all need improvement, and it is up to the coaching team to drive the squad to achieve.

Agree, it's a decisive season for Aloisi and the coaching staff. I'm going to wait to see more pre-season games against A-League opposition before I judge where we're at, but indeed we do need to improve in many areas which are under the coaches' control, in particular how well we play outside of Victoria (our away form). I think that's why we've organised a good number of pre-season matches outside of Victoria, but still Aloisi and co. have a lot of work to do. It'll be interesting to see how they go.

Hopefully we'll win one of our pre season games against A-League opposition or confidence could take a big hit before the season even starts.

Edited September 1, 2013 by alexandro

FootscrayRover · September 4, 2013

Heart seek temporary Engelaar cover

Omnisport Editorial | Sep 4, 2013 | View 10 comments

JOHN Aloisi has confirmed Melbourne Heart are seeking to secure an injury replacement player for sidelined marquee Orlando Engelaar.

Dutchman Engelaar suffered a fractured leg in his first game of pre-season for Heart and although he will not undergo surgery, the former Netherlands international is not expected to return to action until 2014.

"He's not having an operation, he's letting it heal naturally. In three months' time he should be ready to start to run," Aloisi said on Wednesday.

"And then we'll see how quick it heals from there. We're still not sure on the exact time he'll be out for, if it ends up being four, five, six months. But we're confident he'll be back for the (remainder of the) season."

The search is now on for a player capable of acting as a temporary replacement for Engelaar, but Aloisi will be well aware that players of the calibre of the former PSV Eindhoven and Schalke man are few and far between.

"We're working through the solutions now," he said.

"He won't be out for the whole season, we're confident he'll back. We have to work through hopefully getting a player in - an injury replacement - and seeing what we can come up with.

"We're confident that we'll still put a strong squad together, even (with) the unfortunate injury to Orlando.

"You don't want to wish it upon anyone, let alone your marquee player. They're things that happen in football, you accept it, you move on and you come up with solutions and that's what we ended up doing.

"A day later we started speaking about what (we can) come up with now. And then we're working through that with (general manager) John Didulica and the club."

In another set-back for Heart, Engelaar's compatriot Rob Wielaert also picked up a training knock which is likely to keep the veteran centre-back out for the rest of pre-season.

"Rob Wielaert, he rolled his ankle the other day," Aloisi said.

"We're not sure how long he'll be out for. We're still hoping and believe he will be right for the first game of the season."

Finally, Aloisi endorsed the ambitious targets set by newly appointed captain Harry Kewell, who said the club will be aiming to win the title in his first season as skipper.

"I think that everyone believes they've got a chance of winning it and we're no different," the Heart coach said.

"We're putting a squad together to be competitive. You have to aim high and that's what we're doing. And I'm sure that every other club in the A-League's doing the same."

FootscrayRover · September 4, 2013