Melburnian Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Both Melbourne teams should've been brought in at the same time. Its fucked us up always having to play catch up to melbourne victory. They have had an extra 3-4 years to be able to establish their identity, their culture, they have had the first go at tapping into the local soocer audience in melbourne, which they have done successfully. I honestly cannot see us sustaining 8-10k crowds unless we start a massive win streak. Simple as that Winning is one way, but it's not even the most vital. We were here after Victory, so what. How many fans does Victory have? How many people would say they support Victory? 100k, 200k? How many people in Melbourne again? Lets not kid ourselves, it will be hard work but its bloody achievable. The club just needs to change tact and attitude. We are different to Victory as we are not them. Now we have to get interest in us by reaching our and grabbing fuckers. Not just reaching out and not following up. I don't want any excuses from anyone, club, fans or media! We have a culture of blame and excuses. This has got to end. Roll up the sleeves and get to work, that's what's needed. 5 million people to target. 1% success rate would be bigger than anything we ever imagined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 hahaha, Pakenham Heart or Melton Heart. Would surely never work, even for Dandenong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schrecky Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Supporters come from all over melbourne for every sporting code here - thats just the way it is in melbourne - it aint ever gonna change . Heart is growing, Heart is viable (with or without crowds) dont underestimate what tv/adevertising is worth to a club. The only bit missing is patience - no one gets rich over night, no club grows huge overnight. There are more Heart people around the streets this year than year 1 & 2. Kids turn up to training in the gear now , people wear there kits on match day when not turning up to the game. It was always going to be a challenge being the expansion team... We didnt get the leg up of access to all the fans first. Im not concerned , but am getting annoyed at all these baseless accusations that the club is in trouble cause fans didnt turn up to 1 game. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Also we had 2,950 come to a game this time last year, i seriously don't understand the fuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kontra.11 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think the clubs strivings to work with the community and the larger football community is actually the very thing that sets us apart from the "big" club that is Melbourne Victory, because let's face it, they are big and we will never get to that size. So to me being the community club much like a North Melbourne and Western Bulldogs in the AFL is perfect. The club already does the work, it just needs to get better at showing off this aspect of the club and entrench it in the way that people talk about the club. I have noticed that the youtube videos have dropped off this year which is a perfect way to show some of the work that the club is doing in the community. Just assure that it is done in a non exploitative and tokenistic manner. Being someone that worked closely in the sports sector, Melbourne Victory did nothing and still probably do nothing in reaching out to the community such as schools and so on. The best, and this was before Heart were around, was Melbourne Storm and look at how their support base has grown, despite being cheats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mus-28 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 as someone who was around during the Morwell Falcons > Gippsland Falcons > Eastern Pride debacle, changing the clubs name and geographical identity is a pointless exercise. We could change our name to the Eastern Calcutta Vindaloo but it doesn't mean the Indian community will come out in support. People want a good product to invest their time and money into, currently we don't offer that. We offer the exact same product that is available at Victory, with less media interest and fanfare. The community work will pay off eventually, but that will be once the kids that recieve the coaching/visits become of age to make their own decisions with their own money. Ideally we need to offer every child that comes along to a clinic/school visit a $150 membership for them & 1 adult. Keep the entire eastern side of the stadium free as a family area and make that area as family friendly as possible. As there isnt a bad seat in AAMI Park so having a difference of $30 between Cat A and General Admission is pointless. Have North & South GA tickets @ $20ea, West @ $30ea (excluding next to the players race) and make the East a family area with $25 for 1 adult and 1 child. At least this way we will be cheaper than Victory and can begin to build our fanbase rather than offering the same deal for a product that Joe Average will see as inferior to that of Victory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wombegongal Posted December 12, 2012 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) I think heart is running a two tier strategy. It has long and short term goals. I think it has nearly reached its short term goal of breaking even. This has come at a cost but I believe breaking even and building slowly is much better than the Leeds model of invest like mad fucks and watch the house of cards come tumbling down. Short term we are half way there. The half of the short term we are missing is the magnitude of the growth which I'm sure the club feels is a little low. The second part of the strategy is long term. Any neutral kid heart do a clinic with is likely to be heart supporter going forward. I guess its like planting a seed. That takes time to grow and we won't truly know how successful that is for 20 years. That is as people have pointed out one of our points of difference. We are hands on and community based do I think this could be done slightly better yes but we are running on limited resources. With more money coming from the ffa it should mean we can invest more into our future. I'd like to talk also about our other point of difference. Our style has been a point of difference and what pundits like Les don't recognise is the Victory shit themselves so much about our image that they basically stole it. We were the new cool kids trying to play the right way. And like a school ground bully Victory saw how cool we were and they decided to get the best local coach who played our passing football and paid him a shit load so they could play it. So really Victory have been quite cynical in denying us an identity in that regard. Les then raises the point of a religious, ethnic or social divide. Well fuck me if that isn't a dumb statement. The league was reformed to get rid of this. So why try reintroduce it. If they wanted ethnic or racial clubs South Melbourne are knocking at the door. I'm sure the Melbourne Knights would love to come back to national level too. As for his point on location, I think he has really misread the Melbourne market. Look at the AFL. I grew up in Gippsland and followed Essendon because my old man did. People no longer follow teams based on location. The Victorian Government/ AFL destroyed that by moving all teams to two stadiums. This is now an ingrained feature of the Melbourne sports scene. Just remember Les is a journo, they are paid to write articles that get your attention and raise your emotions. He has done this successfully. Writing isn't all about being correct its about opinions and right or wrong it's only his opinion. I'll close by saying Victory have no identity / culture except being a bunch of cunts. Edited December 12, 2012 by wombegongal 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Until I die Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Also we had 2,950 come to a game this time last year, i seriously don't understand the fuss. which one? also we got under 5000 for the gold coast game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ando Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 The slow burn approach, whilst mildly frustrating right now, will pay dividends in the mid to long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Identity is something that can't be manufactured, it has to be discovered, and it evolves - that takes time. The problem we have is really a product of the FFA franchise model where clubs have been manufactured as brands rather than starting as a club from the ground up. The 'point of difference' for Heart that would also assist this process of evolution would be to offer community ownership where members really are members not just season ticket holders, and have a say in the running of the club, a member rep on the board etc. That would make us a peoples club, not just a branding exercise. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melburnian Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Identity is something that can't be manufactured, it has to be discovered, and it evolves - that takes time. The problem we have is really a product of the FFA franchise model where clubs have been manufactured as brands rather than starting as a club from the ground up. The 'point of difference' for Heart that would also assist this process of evolution would be to offer community ownership where members really are members not just season ticket holders, and have a say in the running of the club, a member rep on the board etc. That would make us a peoples club, not just a branding exercise. Something that was talked about and should happen amongst a host of other things. As I said internally the club are doing ok. But we haven't been able to establish an appeal. This is now what we have to do. We have a foundation from which to work, but now is a critical time. I don't believe going the same way will magically pull more numbers eventually, it's all down to hard work and initiative. If we want it we will achieve it. Also whomever said we will never be bigger than Victory is the exact talk I want to leave this club. Aim high. Man I don't want to be just bigger than Victory, I want to be the biggest most respected club in Asia eventually. Why is that so impossible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulhollanddrive Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Basically what I've said in my posts here. We sold our identity, to get results. We play counter attack with a bunch of 30+ year olds on the field. It's the most effective way for a middle of the road team to get results in this league. Aloisi isn't talking about posession football, promoting youth, he's talking about hating bullies, needing more intensity, referee decisions. Didalica is talking about being a community club anymore, he's doing PR with Owen and Beckham. I was sold on Heart due to it bringing something different to the league, European manager who liked playing a more complex aesthetically pleasing style of football that would bring through young socceroos and European marquees. The reason why this all changed, was because the owners/board were ready to walk away last season due to financial losses and the admission 7-8k crowds would not mean long term survival. So they went for a cheap manager, experienced players and a win now approach. They need to win now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartFc Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) Clearly we need to merge with Melbourne Victory. They can keep the Melbourne part and we'll keep heart. We'll be know as.. Melbourne Heart. Problem solved. Edited December 12, 2012 by HeartFc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Another way of looking at it mulhollanddrive is that it will take more than 2 years to produce a production line of talented youngsters who can play in the way that we all want. In the meantime we need to bring in better players than the 'experienced' players that we contracted at the sart of our existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain82 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 has everyone forgot that we are in Victoria? where over 150,000 will watch a weekend of AFL, we're trying to break that market, as well as keep up with the blue and white shite.. That's a rather big ask. MHFC have been established 3 years, have not had great success, but the potential is there. Young Aussie coach, decent squad, if we get the consistency of playing well at home and stringing the wins together, the good vibes in the papers alone would be enough for get the armchair fans attention, never mind all of us going out of our way to put our next game highest on the to do list. I think I'm right in saying Victory had over 40,000 a few years back, there average atm is around late teens, that's around 20,000 'missing' football fans. The reason why Heart are here, to recapture that audience, plus the ever growing Melburnian population. I know a lot of football fans here, some older generation, who are simply Victory fans because there was no one else to go for, and MHFC are slowly changing that, we are getting people chatting about the red and white team, and a good win next weekend, when they all flock to watch the biggest game this code has here, and we could see them turning up at our games instead of spending the day at home/shops whatever. And then younger people who love football from the UK but are not interested in the A-league for a range of reasons, not good enough standard, summer league - when a lot would rather be at the beach, or they have the misfortune of going to a victory game first and then put of coming back to an A-League game by there ferel support. IMO if we start to deliver on field, the by standers/armchair fans will return. in the mean time its up to us, the loyal, through thick and thin, band of support to turn up, cheer on the red and white and hope the lads respond and give us 3 points. having adverts and that here and there are great but its results that matter the most 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huzie Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Club should be doing every thing they can to get Beckham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiz.heart Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 forget the geographical crap. we should start playing games out of Lakeside stadium to help get more of the NSL/VPL fans on board which was what the club initially strived for during our inception but IMO we didn't do this well enough. MHFC matches VS wellington/WSW/newcastle/central coast @ Lakeside MHFC matches VS victory/sydney/brisbane/adelaide @ AAMI Park I know we all love AAMI park but playing some matches at Lakeside would suit our philosophy of community engagement and football tradition. Plus we would potentially tap into an untouched supporter base being the people that live in around the south melbourne area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 It's an athletics stadium. No atmosphere and doesn't meet FFA requirements. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melburnian Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 It's an athletics stadium. No atmosphere and doesn't meet FFA requirements. I agree. Not for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Okay. Instead of everyone asking us how we're different from victory, we should ask everyone else how are Victory any different from us? We represent Melbourne. Who do they represent? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Ideally we need to offer every child that comes along to a clinic/school visit a $150 membership for them & 1 adult. Keep the entire eastern side of the stadium free as a family area and make that area as family friendly as possible. I don't know enough to comment on the pricing, but in terms of 'differentiation' I support this idea. I think it has a lot of merit, especially because that other club can't copy it without upsetting a lot of their present members. The present 'family friendly' area stuck in one tiny corner of the stadium is hopeless, and be extending it we can demonstrate our community commitment. Takes nothing away from those who want to be 'active' etc, because they have their own area. Wasn't it Ando who was compiling a list of the best 'membership ideas' in another thread to perhaps discuss with the club? The above would certainly come into my 'best 10 ideas.' The other one I liked was including in each full season membership two extra ('free') GA tickets to the first two home games of the season. They don't have to be called 'free' - they are just part of the membership package - and that way they don't breach the ACF's rules on 'free tickets.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heart of Melbourne Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 What about building a boutique stadium at Victoria Park. Lots of public transport and pubs and bars on Johnston Street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelawolf Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 What about building a boutique stadium at Victoria Park. Lots of public transport and pubs and bars on Johnston Street. great solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 as someone who was around during the Morwell Falcons > Gippsland Falcons > Eastern Pride debacle, changing the clubs name and geographical identity is a pointless exercise. We could change our name to the Eastern Calcutta Vindaloo but it doesn't mean the Indian community will come out in support. People want a good product to invest their time and money into, currently we don't offer that. We offer the exact same product that is available at Victory, with less media interest and fanfare. The community work will pay off eventually, but that will be once the kids that recieve the coaching/visits become of age to make their own decisions with their own money. Ideally we need to offer every child that comes along to a clinic/school visit a $150 membership for them & 1 adult. Keep the entire eastern side of the stadium free as a family area and make that area as family friendly as possible. As there isnt a bad seat in AAMI Park so having a difference of $30 between Cat A and General Admission is pointless. Have North & South GA tickets @ $20ea, West @ $30ea (excluding next to the players race) and make the East a family area with $25 for 1 adult and 1 child. At least this way we will be cheaper than Victory and can begin to build our fanbase rather than offering the same deal for a product that Joe Average will see as inferior to that of Victory With you on this one Mus. I remember how desperate Falcons were to try and get supporters from other areas of Gippsland. They didn't seem to realise that those from Traralgon, Churchill etc. were already on board. After the club organised a big away trip to Marconi they started dressing the security up in white shirts and bow ties if I remember correctly. The club then lost it's identity and appeal to the locals and the club was in demise from then on. The Heart "brand" is well recognised among those who follow sport. Somehow though we need to get them to follow Heart and then to become supporters and members. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) What about building a boutique stadium at Victoria Park. Lots of public transport and pubs and bars on Johnston Street. Even if nothing else stood in the way, and if it was possible to use Barr Construction and a direct translation of their costs to Australia, you're looking at about $15m for an 8,000 capacity ground. Back-of-envelope calculation based on St. Mirren Park. http://www.seepaisle...fc-44.html��And there's no way we could contain our costs to that. St. Mirren financed their new ground by selling their old one, but we have nothing to sell. No way, unless we find a philanthropist, that we could find that money. Edited December 12, 2012 by jw1739 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundam Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Build a new stadium on top of the Jolimont Railyards. Still in the sporting/arts precinct. They always wanted to put something there to cover up it's ugliness. Right next to flinders street station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sash Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Supporters come from all over melbourne for every sporting code here - thats just the way it is in melbourne - it aint ever gonna change . Heart is growing, Heart is viable (with or without crowds) dont underestimate what tv/adevertising is worth to a club. The only bit missing is patience - no one gets rich over night, no club grows huge overnight. There are more Heart people around the streets this year than year 1 & 2. Kids turn up to training in the gear now , people wear there kits on match day when not turning up to the game. It was always going to be a challenge being the expansion team... We didnt get the leg up of access to all the fans first. Im not concerned , but am getting annoyed at all these baseless accusations that the club is in trouble cause fans didnt turn up to 1 game. I agree. First of all, Les is wrong. We wern't 7th before the game, we were 9th, coming off an uninspiring 0-0 draw with the side that's 10th, and right now we'd be last if we didn't win. The poor crowd reflected our ladder position and was also affected by the weather forecast. We also had a bunch of players missing, and were playing a team that usually thrashes us. Any club's attendances are affected by those factors. It's just what happens. I don't see that our fans are any more or less soft than anyone elses. The club has worked hard and bit by bit, our overall attendances have grown gradually. It's a tough road, but my perspective is how much we can grow in 5 or 10 years, and not react to week to week fluctuations. With a competetive team on the park, and continuing to work hard at the community level, I don't see why we can't continue to grow to average attendances of 10,000 and then 15,000 within a few years. The only reason this won't happen is if we're stuck in the lower part of the table. If we can get some success, we'll be fine. If we're at least competetive and win most of our home games, I think we'll also be fine. But if we can't do that, then we're in big trouble. It's that simple. I don't care about manufacturing an identity. We're a football club, and our primary reason for existence is to play football. The identity will develop on its own. The thing that's pissed me off more than anything is that after a great win, the only thing people want to talk about is the crowd. Even on this forum, the match thread was hijacked by people talking about the crowd. What did people expect given the circumstances? Put in decent performances in the next couple of weeks, and we'll be back to 6 - 8,000. And we can then build on that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddy Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 We don't need to build a new stadium or to change our name. Would absolutely be the worst things Heart could do at the moment. We are slowly heading in the right direction. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 We are slowly heading in the right direction. Exactly. Look at the OP of the MHFC Attendances thread for confirmation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddy Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 The thing that's pissed me off more than anything is that after a great win, the only thing people want to talk about is the crowd. Even on this forum, the match thread was hijacked by people talking about the crowd. What did people expect given the circumstances? Put in decent performances in the next couple of weeks, and we'll be back to 6 - 8,000. And we can then build on that. +10000000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sash Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think looking at the history of Melbourne's big football league - the VFL - can show something. In 1925, 3 new clubs were added to the league. Footscray, North Melbourne, and Hawthorn. Footscray have had little success, winning 1 premiership in the 1950's, and they have historically low crowds. They've tried stuff like re-branding to the Western Bulldogs, but it makes no difference. North Melbourne also had little success for the most part, not winning their first premiership until the 1970's. They also struggle with low crowds and have tried things like re-locating games interstate. But it's had no effect. Hawthorn, on the other hand, built a strong side in the 1960's, and have had long periods of success since. They've won something like 8 or 10 premierships. And that success has transferred to many new fans. They now have one of the largest membership bases in the league, and are not far off being one of the big clubs. For me, the lesson in this is: * a long term perspective, * there's no substitute for on field success. No gimmick or re-branding excersise will work. It's mostly about performance. We need to win more games. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ando Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Are you suggesting we get Jeff as a board member? If you'll excuse me, I need to go and sleep now. I've had a Kennett of a day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn Asunder Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Building a club with tradition takes time. The passionate and true supporters of the Red and White, and particulary the regulars on this very forum, are part of something special...we are by and large responsible for how Heart evolve and will have a huge hand in the ultimate success of the club. In years to come, a Heart membership will be worth its weight in gold, like MCC memberships... In the meantime we need to stick by the club and keep being true supporters. I would also love for the supporters to come up with a crowd activity that becomes a part of the fabric of the club...Liverpool have their song, West Ham have their bubbles, what is there for us? Any ideas?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhfc01 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 We could shut the doors down at the end of the season but while we are still alive, I will continue to get as many of my family members to watch my beloved Melbourne Heart play and I will buy my membership. I love the club with a passion and I hate Victory, I could never support them even if they were the only Victorian team. If we folded I would be so devistated I doubt I would watch the a league again or much at all. We need to start winning games and now we get 3 players back from socceroos duty, bring on CCM and bring on Victory the following week, we will get decent crowd numbers we just need to win games. If we fail to make the 6, I will be very worried about our future in the offseason but lets enjoy watching our club play in the a league and support them to hopefully play in the finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toogood18 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 What about building a boutique stadium at Victoria Park. Lots of public transport and pubs and bars on Johnston Street. Will never happen as Collingwood wouldn't let this happen and we'd need to spend quite a bit of money of seating and stands if we did relocate there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heart of Melbourne Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Collingwood have a new home now. Don't see the problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sash Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Are you suggesting we get Jeff as a board member? lol. Not at all! But just on the question of identity, I'm definitely not against the club standing for certain values or whatever. I like what the club has stood for, and I think it's important to feel some pride in your club for reasons other than winning games. But it's just never going to be an answer for bringing people through the turnstiles. For that, we need to give people an expectation that we're likely to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sash Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 We could shut the doors down at the end of the season but while we are still alive, I will continue to get as many of my family members to watch my beloved Melbourne Heart play and I will buy my membership. I love the club with a passion and I hate Victory, I could never support them even if they were the only Victorian team. If we folded I would be so devistated I doubt I would watch the a league again or much at all. We need to start winning games and now we get 3 players back from socceroos duty, bring on CCM and bring on Victory the following week, we will get decent crowd numbers we just need to win games. If we fail to make the 6, I will be very worried about our future in the offseason but lets enjoy watching our club play in the a league and support them to hopefully play in the finals. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmissionary Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 What about building a boutique stadium at Victoria Park. Lots of public transport and pubs and bars on Johnston Street. Will never happen as Collingwood wouldn't let this happen and we'd need to spend quite a bit of money of seating and stands if we did relocate there. Collingwood have a new home now. Don't see the problem with that. It's not about Collingwood - a lot of money and work has been put into Victoria Park to make it available for public and community use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) Are you suggesting we get Jeff as a board member? If you'll excuse me, I need to go and sleep now. I've had a Kennett of a day. FWIW Kennett is actually is a fan of soccer and under his guidance he turned Hawthorn from a Club with Some Potential to a Membership Giant. Then there are also his efforts in setting up Beyond Blue: One of the best things to ever happen for Mental Health in this country and a blueprint for tackling the issue worldwide. Politics aside, nobody can claim that the guy has not proven himself as a very strong and successful promoter. I bloody hate Hawthorn but I could think of lot worse board members to help get this club moving than Jeff. (This being even if does he not fit it in with your Supra Political Theory.) Edited December 12, 2012 by cadete 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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