borononny Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think this is a sobering account from an outside view http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/les-murray/blog/1132783/Where-does-the-Heart-lie Hopefully things pick up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Long on criticism, short on constructive ideas. Love the way the media has to have a whipping boy. Thanks once again Les for talking the game, the league, and our club, down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 That is quite sad reading that knowing it's my team. But I think Lesbian Murray should talk about the positives what the club does rather than giving the club bad publicity like that. Having said that, and this question has been posed on numerous occasions, what are Melbourne Heart doing to increase our figures? I have noticed many MH members have the "CBF" attitude i.e. it's rainy, hot, we are not playing well blablabla.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchPride Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Long on criticism, short on constructive ideas. Love the way the media has to have a whipping boy. Thanks once again Les for talking the game, the league, and our club, down. To be fair to SBSTWG, I enjoy listening to them on Monday night's now, maybe they focus and talk about the league more and more because they are broadcasting it next year, but even before that was announced they showed a real interest, and it has become the major focus on their show, and when Les, Foz & Zrilla are talking about the weekend's results it's a genuine interest and love, and I think we should appreciate that, people have spoken about the improvement of the league since inception on the field BUT this is one aspect that proves off the field has improved, Foz never gave anything to the A-League, but when he talks now, it's as if he watches the league more than any other league, or his beloved Barcelona, and even though HE SHOULD be watching the A-League more than anything, it shows how much football in this country has come. I don't think he is putting the league down at all in this article and I think most people should agree with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braveheart Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I think this is a sobering account from an outside view The only time SIR Les steps into Melbourne is to collect the odd award. What the fuck would he know about the game down here. All those criticisms/observations have been abundantly clear since day dot. Nothing new here from the chosen one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyospliff Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 He does have a point though that Heart aren't really viable for the long-term. Heart needs a geographic location to be located just like west syd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) He does have a point though that Heart aren't really viable for the long-term. Heart needs a geographic location to be located just like west syd. Would never work in Melbourne. Being from western Sydney is a big identity thing up there, doesn't hold the same identity to say "I'm from Western Melbourne". Edited December 12, 2012 by Che 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzatron Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 West is best, but there is more people in the S.E. suburbs. S.E. Melbourne Heart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) He does have a point though that Heart aren't really viable for the long-term. Heart needs a geographic location to be located just like west syd. Would never work in Melbourne. Being from western Sydney is a big identity thing up there, doesn't hold the same identity to say "I'm from Western Melbourne". Agreed. On the News in Sydney they even give a separate forecast for the West. In Melbourne we dont have any bordering town/area that has its own identity like West Sydney or Fremantle in WA... The closet thing we have with its own Idenity is Geelong a separate city that is 75km away and I can just see the reaction of most Heart fans if they were told their team was moving to Geelong. Edited December 12, 2012 by cadete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melburnian Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Long on criticism, short on constructive ideas. Love the way the media has to have a whipping boy. Thanks once again Les for talking the game, the league, and our club, down. Is he wrong though? Easy to have a go at him but is he wrong? Head in the sand types would just ignore this. There is no doubt we need to address this. If the club don't think there is a problem, we are in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braveheart Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 S.E. Melbourne Heart? Well the majority of MHFC fans I know are not from this side of town and I have a feeling, like myself, they would not throw their support behind a SE suburbs club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 West is best, but there is more people in the S.E. suburbs. S.E. Melbourne Heart? Get Bruce Bolden out of retirement to play as our number nine? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddy Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Les Murray was involved in the SXFC rival big so there are alterior motives at play here. We had a shocker crowd last week, but we still have recorded slow and steady growth every season. So so so so so sick of hearing about this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzatron Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) S.E. Melbourne Heart? Well the majority of MHFC fans I know are not from this side of town and I have a feeling, like myself, they would not throw their support behind a SE suburbs club. What about the rest of the fans that you dont know? Edited December 12, 2012 by bazzatron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) Is being from the South East enough to draw somebody to one football team over another??? I have never meet anybody that into claiming themselves being from or living in the South East as a big part of their identity: And I did live there for a five year period. Also the name change to the "Western Bulldogs" thing has hardly worked wonders in drawing new fans to Footscray either... Edited December 12, 2012 by cadete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzatron Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I always thought the differentiation was that MVFC was a team for all of Victoria, whereas MHFC was for Melbourne. There is either not enough room for 2 teams in Melbourne or MVFC should have been setup differently to easily cater for expansion(After the success of MVFC, the 2nd team probably shouldnt have been started in Melbourne anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzatron Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'm probably way off the mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I always thought the differentiation was that MVFC was a team for all of Victoria, whereas MHFC was for Melbourne. There is either not enough room for 2 teams in Melbourne or MVFC should have been setup differently to easily cater for expansion(After the success of MVFC, the 2nd team probably shouldnt have been started in Melbourne anyway). TBH I didnt want it, but I could see Geelong get better numbers than we are currently as they are sport mad down there and also very bored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 No excuse why Melbourne can't have two teams sharing the same stadium. Something has to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzatron Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I guess we just have lazy fans then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) Attaching our-self to a specific of different geographical area would be admitting defeat. We are here because the FFA and the owners of Melbourne Heart have stated from the beginning that they believe Melbourne is able to have two sustainable A-league teams and I agree with them too. I believe the problem is and always has been that Heart is not the type of club the unconverted want. But as BH has stated, this is not new news. Edited December 12, 2012 by KSK_47 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) First of all, sack Les Murray. Secondly, TBH given the size of Melbourne, having geographical distinctions between the two teams would have probably been good, but thats not how its unfolded. You cant just move the club now and screw over a large part of the supporter base, and TBH I dont think our clubs survival relies on a geographical distinction. Win some games and the bandwagoners will come, while the community work our club puts in will pay off in the future and also lead to more fans. We are here because the FFA and the owners of Melbourne Heart have stated from the beginning that they believe Melbourne is able to have two sustainable A-league teams and I agree with them too. Melbourne is able to sustain 20 teams, the market is there, our club just fails to tap into it. Edited December 12, 2012 by Tesla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braveheart Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 S.E. Melbourne Heart? Well the majority of MHFC fans I know are not from this side of town and I have a feeling, like myself, they would not throw their support behind a SE suburbs club. What about the rest of the fans that you dont know? Well done, ya douche. My point was that from MY EXPERIENCE with the club, the south east doesn't seem like a huge marketing chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzatron Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 The club is made up of fans from all over so it will probably never make a difference, but N.W. and S.E i think are clear Melbourne zones that could be marketed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
United Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 West is best, but there is more people in the S.E. suburbs. S.E. Melbourne Heart? I know for a fact that would boost the memberships a bit. My mate, Victory supporter, said he would convert if that were to happen. You definitley need that identity, for me it was enough to support the 'other' team but that does soudn a bit lame when you try explain why you chose Heart. The thing is, it would have to force Victory to do something simliar wouldn't it? I mean, surely they'd lose a chunk of their base support because if your from S.E. you'd want to get behind them. On the flip side, if Heart was something like West Suburbs or North or whateva, i'd feel a little left out being S.E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberta per gli FB. Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I don't know how anyone could conceivably be following this club and not know that the difference between us and that Blue & Shite down the road. If you can't work it our now after 3 years, then wtf are you even doing here. Anyone who seriously wants us to change our geographical name is a cancer. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ando Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 There is no true centre for either the SE or NW, they're largely invented concepts used by hipsters in lane way bars to avoid going out to Prahran/Fitzroy. Dat Yarra river divide. Perhaps if Dandenong was really considered a second city similar to Geelong a move may work, but not now, not ever. Market the club for all Melburnuans - Sporting Melbourne FC/ Heart of Melbourne FC etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ando Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Placeholder for a detailed analysis based on recent abs data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
United Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 There is no true centre for either the SE or NW, they're largely invented concepts used by hipsters in lane way bars to avoid going out to Prahran/Fitzroy. Dat Yarra river divide. Perhaps if Dandenong was really considered a second city similar to Geelong a move may work, but not now, not ever. Market the club for all Melburnuans - Sporting Melbourne FC/ Heart of Melbourne FC etc You've got a point there about Dandenong, it is considered the 'second city' and with the redevelopment works they have planned for the place, it literally will be a second Melbourne. Shit, thinking about it, Dandenong could potentially be a 3rd Victorian team in the future. It would effectively be the S.E team, and cater for all suburbs down to Frankston and further probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ando Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 10 years away at a minimum in terms of economic investment and urban development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyospliff Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Folding the A-league also would be an option and starting over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I don't know how anyone could conceivably be following this club and not know that the difference between us and that Blue & Shite down the road. I certainly can see the difference in things we say, but little in the way of actions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ando Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 The entire south east is a fantastic untapped market for the club. As is the north west. And the north. And east. And inner city. The people are there, they have a central location, they just need to become aware. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Long on criticism, short on constructive ideas. Love the way the media has to have a whipping boy. Thanks once again Les for talking the game, the league, and our club, down. Is he wrong though? Easy to have a go at him but is he wrong? Head in the sand types would just ignore this. There is no doubt we need to address this. If the club don't think there is a problem, we are in trouble. Yes I think that he is. Issues of identity always go hand in hand with poor on-field performance. The same issues have been raised about SFC this season (what sort of football do we stand for?) and MV last season. As others have pointed out but as Les doesn't appreciate, Melbourne is not like Sydney with distinct geographical identities. Football club here were organised around suburban identities (AFL) but that was appropriate at the time, I don't know whether that would be the case now if the AFL were starting tomorrow. Part of the problem with our football identity is that MV have moved into our territory and are doing it rather more successfully at the moment. We need to stay true to ourselves, you only ave to look at what has happened to the ALP when you decide to trade in principles for 'branding ' 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ando Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Brilliant assessment, Belaguttman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melburnian Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Long on criticism, short on constructive ideas. Love the way the media has to have a whipping boy. Thanks once again Les for talking the game, the league, and our club, down. Is he wrong though? Easy to have a go at him but is he wrong? Head in the sand types would just ignore this. There is no doubt we need to address this. If the club don't think there is a problem, we are in trouble. Yes I think that he is. Issues of identity always go hand in hand with poor on-field performance. The same issues have been raised about SFC this season (what sort of football do we stand for?) and MV last season. As others have pointed out but as Les doesn't appreciate, Melbourne is not like Sydney with distinct geographical identities. Football club here were organised around suburban identities (AFL) but that was appropriate at the time, I don't know whether that would be the case now if the AFL were starting tomorrow. Part of the problem with our football identity is that MV have moved into our territory and are doing it rather more successfully at the moment. We need to stay true to ourselves, you only ave to look at what has happened to the ALP when you decide to trade in principles for 'branding ' The club has got to be more proactive. We can't keep going on the same course because it clearly doesn't work. I agree we don't need and should not change our geographical identity and that Melbourne can certainly sustain two teams. I also agree that Melbourne is different to Sydney. What I am saying is he is right in that, whatever we are doing, it's not working and we need to address this. There is no point sitting on our hands and saying oh well Victory have got the head up on us so let's just continue. Melbourne is unique. But you need to work on obtaining its love. Right now we barely register a blip in this town. Supporter wise and interest wise. I think we have good morals, ethics and seemingly good people involved with our club. The internal is going ok, but we haven't appealed in our home. 5,850 members. That is the cold, hard facts of the situation we are facing. I also know a few of those are hand me outs. This has got to be resolved. Geography is not the answer. Changing our name or colours is not the answer. The answer is hard work and a different tactic is needed to obtain the Melbourne public. Millions of people in this city have not committed to any football team. There is your answer. Go and get them. I have confidence in our brand. I personally believe this club can be the biggest in the league. The people working at our club just need to realise this thought and go out to achieve it. We as supporters also have a part to play. Les was right. We have issues. He is wrong if he thinks it is to do plainly with our name/geography etc. Also anyone who thinks this is over is mistaken. We can achieve a great deal but the time to act is now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/12/12/beckham-or-bust-for-melbourne-heart/ and http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/12/11/does-melbourne-deserve-two-a-league-teams/ Two more articles about us. We're not very loved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Both Melbourne teams should've been brought in at the same time. Its fucked us up always having to play catch up to melbourne victory. They have had an extra 3-4 years to be able to establish their identity, their culture, they have had the first go at tapping into the local soocer audience in melbourne, which they have done successfully. I honestly cannot see us sustaining 8-10k crowds unless we start a massive win streak. Simple as that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ando Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Fuck 'em all. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I'm sure that from the syndicate down the people associated with Heart are aware of the issues, and I'm confident that they are working on them. It's true that our on-field performances have not been as hoped, and that we have not drawn in the big crowds that perhaps were expected. However,I don't resile from the view that it is for the syndicate to concern itself about the sustainability of Melbourne Heart. No-one outside the syndicate except SM would know the true facts about that. The organization has sources of income other than gate money. The last public statement I saw was that we are expected break even in our third season. Further, from next season FFA will cover wages up to the salary cap for all 10 clubs, lifting significant financial pressures from all the clubs. What we said we'd do - that is work to develop young players and their pathways in the game - we've done pretty well. Babalj, Good, Hamill, Behich, Marrone, Goodwin and now J. Walker and Mitchinson are all testament to that. In that respect the issue is that aspect of what we stand for does not seem to resonate with the Melbourne public. (And obviously not with Les Murray.) There have been several ideas put up on here about memberships, such as stadium seating, free introductory tickets, reduced prices and so on, that might encourage people to buy once they are interested. In other words getting them to buy something once they're in the shop. Marketing is about getting people into the shop in the first place. That's a darned sight harder than selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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