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Dylan

An Independent Aleague

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Probably a big enough of a topic to have its own thread.

 

https://apfca.com.au/apfca-publish-blueprint-for-an-independent-league/?fbclid=IwAR3X04nn-gVSMIGMXLL0LZ38G-b2TE7hHWMCu5Pkfg37Mjv58rQrEk4kQlA

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Some good things, 8 & 10. No mention of the cap and the Wleague expansion is going to be tricky

 

Edited by Dylan

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No mention of transfer or loan fees in 8 either.

Fairly weak overall. I would have preferred to see a target for expansion, and several other items. I also disagree with the same body running the A-League and the W-League. The women should run their own league IMO.

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2 hours ago, Dylan said:

If this happens it results in the clubs no longer being franchises. What’s @belaguttman going to do then? 😏

The clubs will move from whatever they are with FFA to being exactly the same with the League. I can't see them changing other than that. So if they are franchises now they'll still be franchises, but then they will be franchises of the League.

Bela won't have to turn in his grave just yet.

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4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

The clubs will move from whatever they are with FFA to being exactly the same with the League. I can't see them changing other than that. So if they are franchises now they'll still be franchises, but then they will be franchises of the League.

Bela won't have to turn in his grave just yet.

Well That’s not how the league is going to be set up. They won’t be franchises anymore. According to their spokesman on the daily football show

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1 hour ago, Dylan said:

Well That’s not how the league is going to be set up. They won’t be franchises anymore. According to their spokesman on the daily football show

@Dylan Tell us more please. I suppose one change if the league is independent, and affiliated to FFA as a single entity, is that if the licence system is maintained then the llicence to play will be issued by the league and not FFA.

Another question is what happens if a club gets into financial difficulty? In the past, FFA has stepped in and in a couple of cases actually taken complete ownership of the club for a period of time. I presume that won't happen with an independent league.

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On 09/03/2019 at 3:59 PM, jw1739 said:

@Dylan Tell us more please. I suppose one change if the league is independent, and affiliated to FFA as a single entity, is that if the licence system is maintained then the llicence to play will be issued by the league and not FFA.

Another question is what happens if a club gets into financial difficulty? In the past, FFA has stepped in and in a couple of cases actually taken complete ownership of the club for a period of time. I presume that won't happen with an independent league.

Well it wassnt really much, just really mentioning that an Independent Aleague means that the clubs will own all of their rights etc and will become clubs. In terms of the other question. I think Simon Hill keeps making this point and its something that I do agree with. That is, that is part and parcel of having an independent league, that the league will only be as strong as the weakest club (although in the end I assume there will be some kind of safety net) 

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44 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Fat chance this is all done and signed off for next season. 

It's hard reading - haven't these people ever heard of the "Executive Summary"? Mostly motherhood statements as far as I can see. Are there any quantified objectives - i.e. what, how much and when by?

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Well the idea was to have it ready for next season. What is proposed issnt different from what is above. 

The issue will be the arguing over the distribution of funds.

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14 hours ago, Dylan said:

Well the idea was to have it ready for next season. What is proposed issnt different from what is above. 

The issue will be the arguing over the distribution of funds.

I also don't think the game is doing itself any favours by wanting to include women's football in the discussions. I've no idea why the clubs want the same commission to run the men's and women's leagues, nor do I see that general discussions about gender equality in football should be added into discussions of an independent A-League. IMO this is just going to delay the whole process.

No way are we going to have an independent A-League by next season - just six months' time - if we carry on at this snails' pace.

The APFCA Blueprint that you posted above is really the only quantified set of recommendations that I can find at this stage.

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4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I also don't think the game is doing itself any favours by wanting to include women's football in the discussions. I've no idea why the clubs want the same commission to run the men's and women's leagues, nor do I see that general discussions about gender equality in football should be added into discussions of an independent A-League. IMO this is just going to delay the whole process.

No way are we going to have an independent A-League by next season - just six months' time - if we carry on at this snails' pace.

The APFCA Blueprint that you posted above is really the only quantified set of recommendations that I can find at this stage.

IMO they should be included. Fact of the matter is that Womens football in Aus has the highest participation rate and represents our best chance of World Cup success. So I want the W league to be one of the best on Earth. Besides, its going to have absolutely no bearing on the time frame to have this agreement reach. Its all going to come down to the money. 

If I were in the APFCA's shoes I would be pushing for some kind of two stage agreement. One for next season which basically is still run by FFA.  But, hands ownership of the licences back to the clubs (and then they become clubs) and hopefully that results in the cap going.

Then they have all next season to work out full independence.

Edited by Dylan

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20 hours ago, Dylan said:

IMO they should be included. Fact of the matter is that Womens football in Aus has the highest participation rate and represents our best chance of World Cup success. So I want the W league to be one of the best on Earth. Besides, its going to have absolutely no bearing on the time frame to have this agreement reach. Its all going to come down to the money. 

If I were in the APFCA's shoes I would be pushing for some kind of two stage agreement. One for next season which basically is still run by FFA.  But, hands ownership of the licences back to the clubs (and then they become clubs) and hopefully that results in the cap going.

Then they have all next season to work out full independence.

I have no problem in ultimately including the W-League and the Y-League in the "Independent Leagues Commission's" remit, if that is seen as desirable. What I don't see as helpful is trying to include it in the discussions right now on getting an Independent A-League up and running as soon as possible. As always it seems to me that FFA is trying to do too many things at once and therefore risks not delivering on any of them. At the moment we're trying to accommodate expansion, an independent A-League, and independent management of three leagues all at the same time, and that seems crazy to me. 

IMO one step at a time has a better chance of success.

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Good stuff, but a bullet point executive summary would help. I read it that the State Federations have backed down - am I reading it correctly? 

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Good stuff, but a bullet point executive summary would help. I read it that the State Federations have backed down - am I reading it correctly? 

Quote

In the interests of ensuring the whole of the Australian game benefits from the commercial re-focus of the Professional Leagues, a number of recommendations have been agreed upon, including:

  • There will be an annual contribution from League revenues to FFA including for National Team programs and grassroots initiatives. This contribution will be equal to 1.125 times the amount that will be distributed by the League to any individual Club in the same year. The minimum contribution will be A$4.5m per year in the first instance and indexed linked to CPI thereafter;
  • The Leagues be relieved of the licence payment obligation for the next four seasons in order that investment in the long-term sustainability and growth of the League is maximised. In effect, this recommendation will see FFA re-invest its licence fee in the Australian professional game in order to help ensure longer-term sustainable returns;
  • Once adopted, the recommendations will precipitate the injection by the Clubs of significant capital in the Leagues to enhance the on-field product and bolster their commercial and marketing appeal.

For the benefit of the National Teams and grassroots programs, the NLWG has identified a number of ongoing funding opportunities that the Leagues will provide, including:

  • FFA will receive 10% yields from the sale of new Club licenses and on the net profits from any sale of existing licenses;
  • FFA will receive a funding allocation annually equivalent to 10% of the value of transfers of Australian domestic players internationally;
  • FFA will retain a 20%, non-diluting and non-voting, ‘carry’ equity share in the League. Importantly, if a portion of the Leagues are ever sold in order to generate investment funds for further growth of the League then 20% of those proceeds would be allocated to FFA for investment in accordance with FFA’s objects
  • Fundamental to the NLWG agreed recommendations is the assertion that FFA should be “no worse off” from the re-organisation. A body of work, already under way, is to be completed by FFA and APFCA as an immediate priority to ensure that there is no adverse cost impact to FFA from the transition to the new organisational structure

The final agreed recommendations of the NLWG relate to the FFA Congress. It is recommended that the Club’s right to appoint three members of the Women’s Football Council of the FFA Congress be reduced to a right to appoint one member of the council. These two positions will in future be nominated independently as per the FFA Constitution. Moreover, the NLWG recommends that a Congressional review of the make-up of the FFA Congress should commence as soon as practicably possible via a committee mandated to review the impact (if any) of a new Leagues structure on the democratic make-up of the FFA Congress. This committee should provide observations, and where appropriate recommendations and associated resolutions, for consideration by the FFA Congress at the 2019 FFA AGM.

FFA and the APFCA will now immediately commence the preparation of long-form agreements having regard to the NLWG recommendations and in consultation with NLWG stakeholders. Once complete, the agreements will be presented for consideration and approval by the FFA Board and in turn, the key terms will be put to the FFA Congress for approval.

https://www.ffa.com.au/news/new-leagues-working-group-nlwg-reaches-principle-agreement-recommendations-a-new-era-football

Im happy its resolved. But its also good that the Aleague is going to still have to contribute to the rest of the game. You dont want an type EPL situation

 

Edited by Dylan

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There are a lot of promises but I remain skeptical on all fronts. First Gallop and the FFA will continue to play a role in developing the game in Australia and that does not fill me with confidence; and certainly given the reduced role they will probably give themselves a pay rise to suck more money out of teh game. Secondly, the state leagues remain unreformed and that is a brake in developing the game. Third, club owners say that they will invest to develop the A-League but ultimately they will need to account for their investment which means that the dollars will be a trickle rather than a river. Fourth, the club owners were united against the FFA (and hopefully Gallop) but there is nothing there to say that they are united - as an example why should PG and CCM accept teh removal of the salary cap or for that matter lifting it to where they can't go? And I can't believe that they will accept promotion/relegation.

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3 hours ago, NewConvert said:

There are a lot of promises but I remain skeptical on all fronts. First Gallop and the FFA will continue to play a role in developing the game in Australia and that does not fill me with confidence; and certainly given the reduced role they will probably give themselves a pay rise to suck more money out of teh game. Secondly, the state leagues remain unreformed and that is a brake in developing the game. Third, club owners say that they will invest to develop the A-League but ultimately they will need to account for their investment which means that the dollars will be a trickle rather than a river. Fourth, the club owners were united against the FFA (and hopefully Gallop) but there is nothing there to say that they are united - as an example why should PG and CCM accept teh removal of the salary cap or for that matter lifting it to where they can't go? And I can't believe that they will accept promotion/relegation.

It worries me too. The leopard doesn't change his spots.

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4 hours ago, NuggetsMcGreggor said:

There’s one city fixture at 5:15pm on a Saturday. Good news for football, bad news for us. 

That's an away match in Auckland. Our home matches look OK. I reckon the graveyard shift is 6.00 p.m. on a Sunday, and as far as I can see we have only two of those away to WU in Geelong, and home to Brisbane (1st March).

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5 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

That's an away match in Auckland. Our home matches look OK. I reckon the graveyard shift is 6.00 p.m. on a Sunday, and as far as I can see we have only two of those away to WU in Geelong, and home to Brisbane (1st March).

I was referring to the potential ABC broadcasting the Saturday 5:15 matches this season.

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2 hours ago, NuggetsMcGreggor said:

I was referring to the potential ABC broadcasting the Saturday 5:15 matches this season.

I really don't know why anyone would watch a full A-League match on TV. I would have thought a 30 minutes highlights package would be a much better way of promoting the game.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

I really don't know why anyone would watch a full A-League match on TV. I would have thought a 30 minutes highlights package would be a much better way of promoting the game.

This one of the dumber things you've posted tbh JW

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51 minutes ago, bt50 said:

This one of the dumber things you've posted tbh JW

Happens to my opinion. That's what a forum is for - a vehicle for the expression of opinions. And dissemination of information. Just because you don't agree doesn't make it a dumb opinion. People have different tastes, and mind doesn't extend to that particular offering. In fact I don't particularly like watching any sport on TV, for various reasons.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Happens to my opinion. That's what a forum is for - a vehicle for the expression of opinions. And dissemination of information. Just because you don't agree doesn't make it a dumb opinion. People have different tastes, and mind doesn't extend to that particular offering. In fact I don't particularly like watching any sport on TV, for various reasons.

You're fully entitled to an opinion of course, but if love to hear in what possible way you could think a highlights package is a better way of promoting the game than actually having the game live on FTA?

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21 minutes ago, bt50 said:

You're fully entitled to an opinion of course, but if love to hear in what possible way you could think a highlights package is a better way of promoting the game than actually having the game live on FTA?

Way back in the 70s when TV was expensive, the AFL consisted of one broadcast match (match of the round) and a Sunday highlights package. This worked reasonably well for the times but one side effect when they started broadcasting all matches was that people realised that some teams are just shit. And the reason for this was that they could see all the matches.

So if the ABC was to do a broadcast deal then they should select one full game to broadcast (which given the time slot they won't have much choice) but a highlight packages with smarts. In other words bring the concept into teh 21st century.

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1 hour ago, bt50 said:

You're fully entitled to an opinion of course, but if love to hear in what possible way you could think a highlights package is a better way of promoting the game than actually having the game live on FTA?

"Promoting the game" to me is attracting people who aren't fully committed to it in the first place. I think you're far more likely to entice more people to get interested if you show the best bits of matches - the goals, the near-misses, the saves, the crowd oohs and aahs etc. etc. - five matches squeezed into a 30 minute program would do it for me. Say three minutes of highlights per match, plus two minutes of analysis per match (best players etc.) wrapped up by the players of the week and play of the week, the A-League table and importantly the five matches for the following weekend, with KO times and venues.  Even a title such as "The A-League Highlights Show" gives me a sense of excitement.

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21 hours ago, jw1739 said:

"Promoting the game" to me is attracting people who aren't fully committed to it in the first place. I think you're far more likely to entice more people to get interested if you show the best bits of matches - the goals, the near-misses, the saves, the crowd oohs and aahs etc. etc. - five matches squeezed into a 30 minute program would do it for me. Say three minutes of highlights per match, plus two minutes of analysis per match (best players etc.) wrapped up by the players of the week and play of the week, the A-League table and importantly the five matches for the following weekend, with KO times and venues.  Even a title such as "The A-League Highlights Show" gives me a sense of excitement.

Tbh if you cant show the product in its actual form because you think its substandard then you've got bigger problems.

The show you've got already exists on Foxtel called the A League hour. I could be wrong, but i'm reasonably sure that show was aired on SBS there for a period too and rated even poorer than the matches. That sort of program to me is now for those that love the league but cant watch every game in the weekend, and those that thrive off the analysis of their teams performance each week.

The days of watching a hoghlights package on a Monday that wraps up the weekend purely to find out the scores are nearing an end; most of todays society has access almost instantly to that via a hand held device that has effectively become another organ.

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On 18/09/2019 at 6:07 PM, bt50 said:

Tbh if you cant show the product in its actual form because you think its substandard then you've got bigger problems.

The show you've got already exists on Foxtel called the A League hour. I could be wrong, but i'm reasonably sure that show was aired on SBS there for a period too and rated even poorer than the matches. That sort of program to me is now for those that love the league but cant watch every game in the weekend, and those that thrive off the analysis of their teams performance each week.

The days of watching a hoghlights package on a Monday that wraps up the weekend purely to find out the scores are nearing an end; most of todays society has access almost instantly to that via a hand held device that has effectively become another organ.

I'm afraid that's what my opinion is. It's about English National League standard. And I'm one of those people who doesn't have the time to watch a match on TV anyway (a combination of interests other than football, and personal circumstances).

Edited by jw1739

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On 18/09/2019 at 6:07 PM, bt50 said:

Tbh if you cant show the product in its actual form because you think its substandard then you've got bigger problems.

The show you've got already exists on Foxtel called the A League hour. I could be wrong, but i'm reasonably sure that show was aired on SBS there for a period too and rated even poorer than the matches. That sort of program to me is now for those that love the league but cant watch every game in the weekend, and those that thrive off the analysis of their teams performance each week.

The days of watching a hoghlights package on a Monday that wraps up the weekend purely to find out the scores are nearing an end; most of todays society has access almost instantly to that via a hand held device that has effectively become another organ.

You are correct that an A-League compilation was shown on SBS but that ceased once the A-League rights went elsewhere. I don't know about ratings.

If you don't have Foxtel then you don't have access to the show. And if I read the business press Foxtel is losing market share which was never great anyway. JW and I did say that the format needed to be upgraded for today's audience, so not necessarily the same as yesteryear.

 

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Am I the only one bemused by why we don’t have a 33 game league now?

Anyone able to give a (sane) explanation as to why?

I thought we were trying to get a season length more in line with other leagues?

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1 hour ago, Shahanga said:

Am I the only one bemused by why we don’t have a 33 game league now?

Anyone able to give a (sane) explanation as to why?

I thought we were trying to get a season length more in line with other leagues?

You mean 30 this season and 33 when Macarthur comes in the following season?

FFA appears to be terrified of intruding into the AFL and NRL seasons, and also shies away from mid-week matches, the latter presumably because of poor attendances (although has this really ever been put to the test?).

In our first season we played 30 matches, the home-and-away season starting in early August and finishing in mid-February. As I've commented elsewhere, as the League expands I see it as inevitable that the season has to be extended.

Hopefully the Independent League has this on its agenda.

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The A-League needs to hit 16 teams before we have a 30-match season, surely. That way, each team can play each other once at home and once away.

It's monotonous for all involved playing against the same clubs 3 times throughout an already short season, which is another reason why I'm actually excited for this season as Western United's impact will mitigate some of that monotony. 

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1 hour ago, Nate said:

The A-League needs to hit 16 teams before we have a 30-match season, surely. That way, each team can play each other once at home and once away.

It's monotonous for all involved playing against the same clubs 3 times throughout an already short season, which is another reason why I'm actually excited for this season as Western United's impact will mitigate some of that monotony. 

Oh I don’t know. Depends what you’re used to I think. Growing up following the BRL there were 8 teams and 3 rounds (yes I believe that was the terminology). Mind you no local cup comp (though there was a national comp, but good luck against the poker machine funded teams down south!), so it wasn’t that different.

surely playing everyone 3 times makes a lot more sense than playing some teams twice and some three times. Pretty silly.

is it monotonous? Only if the football is poor. Scrap the salary cap, scrap transfer fees, improve the quality.

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2 hours ago, Nate said:

The A-League needs to hit 16 teams before we have a 30-match season, surely. That way, each team can play each other once at home and once away.

It's monotonous for all involved playing against the same clubs 3 times throughout an already short season, which is another reason why I'm actually excited for this season as Western United's impact will mitigate some of that monotony. 

IMO that's a narrow view. There are other similar leagues - e.g. the Swiss Super League and the Austrian Bundesliga - that face similar situations, and they have various formats. In the Swiss Super League the teams play each other four times, and the Austrian Bundesliga has a complicated format that is explained on Wikipedia. I just don't think that we have innovative thinkers at FFA. The game will not grow in this country if it continues to shut down for 6 months every year, because it simply disappears off the public's radar for that period, and we're all expected to get excited by such things as the release of memberships, the release of the fixture, the new season's kit etc. etc. We need to be playing at least 40 competitive matches each season to keep the interest alive.

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