Melbourne's New Manager (Aloisi Confirmed Pg 30)

[Hendo]

It's the style of play of bza.

Richard Money (Jests), Steve Butcher (Sydney), Crooky, Merrick, McKinna etc...

Mixed results, but shit, atrocious football. Merrick is arguable, covered both sides of the spectrum.

In the end, I'm on the same frequenzy as fozzy, I am racist against managers of British descent.

I have faith that the club will take their time and bring in another tactically astute Manager from either the Netherlands or maybe Germany, with a strong emphasis on youth development and attractive football. Someone who is, or was a proven Youth Team Manager with a track record of learning from the best, and nurturing and developing future stars, AND who is ready to step up to the senior level. This will allow the current second string managers to keep learning and developing until they get their chance, which may come after the next manager's term.

Even considering JVS's salary, this is the best we can hope for in terms of continuing to build and develop the club. We should (unless it is a no brainer) steer clear of EPL / Scottish type managers as only the ones with no potential would consider coming to the A-league (although Grayson did a great job for the most part at Leeds).

Can anyone produce a list of current Youth Team coaches (and their successes) from say The Netherlands, Germany and Spain? (maybe from the latest version of Football Manager, which I don't have)

I imagine that JVS will assist in this recruiting process and in terms of the club's business experience and overall vision, Heart are well placed to undertake a thorough and astute process to find and employ a new manager who will be successful.

Spot on.

[Pandev]

I have faith that the club will take their time and bring in another tactically astute Manager from either the Netherlands or maybe Germany, with a strong emphasis on youth development and attractive football. Someone who is, or was a proven Youth Team Manager with a track record of learning from the best, and nurturing and developing future stars, AND who is ready to step up to the senior level. This will allow the current second string managers to keep learning and developing until they get their chance, which may come after the next manager's term.

Even considering JVS's salary, this is the best we can hope for in terms of continuing to build and develop the club. We should (unless it is a no brainer) steer clear of EPL / Scottish type managers as only the ones with no potential would consider coming to the A-league (although Grayson did a great job for the most part at Leeds).

Can anyone produce a list of current Youth Team coaches (and their successes) from say The Netherlands, Germany and Spain? (maybe from the latest version of Football Manager, which I don't have)

I imagine that JVS will assist in this recruiting process and in terms of the club's business experience and overall vision, Heart are well placed to undertake a thorough and astute process to find and employ a new manager who will be successful.

Tend to agree with you - don't want to undo the good work and change the style!!

Just hope that it doesn't cost 700K. the foundation work is done - therefore I assume fee must be smaller for a similar manager...say 500K. I admit I wouldn't have a clue as to what's appropriate for an offshore manager.

But, I hope for Ange P, Arthur Pappas and Milicic as assistants - bring it on. May even help some of the Sth Melbourne NSL and Whittlesea NSL supporters to take up a membership

The timing is suberb leading up to the Derby game, and also allowing plenty of time to scout and have JVS contribute in the screening process. Very wise of our club's owners. Hat's off to them!

[cadete]

I have faith that the club will take their time and bring in another tactically astute Manager from either the Netherlands or maybe Germany, with a strong emphasis on youth development and attractive football. Someone who is, or was a proven Youth Team Manager with a track record of learning from the best, and nurturing and developing future stars, AND who is ready to step up to the senior level. This will allow the current second string managers to keep learning and developing until they get their chance, which may come after the next manager's term.

Even considering JVS's salary, this is the best we can hope for in terms of continuing to build and develop the club. We should (unless it is a no brainer) steer clear of EPL / Scottish type managers as only the ones with no potential would consider coming to the A-league (although Grayson did a great job for the most part at Leeds).

Can anyone produce a list of current Youth Team coaches (and their successes) from say The Netherlands, Germany and Spain? (maybe from the latest version of Football Manager, which I don't have)

I imagine that JVS will assist in this recruiting process and in terms of the club's business experience and overall vision, Heart are well placed to undertake a thorough and astute process to find and employ a new manager who will be successful.

What is with obsession with Heart having to go down a Youth approach?

I mean are you serious about drawing up a list of Youth Team Managers?

You do realise we are a Professional Football club in our own right, not a Youth Team or a Feeder Club?

How does this benefit truly benefit as supporters of Melbourne Heart to solely focus on Youth?

If anything it works against us having such a focus because any young players that we do develop once they reach the level of being one of the better players in their position (Whilst still young) they will head overseas.

Conversely if we have slightly older players that can play at the exact same high level but they won’t be poached by overseas club as it would be seen that their full potential has been achieved and that there is less room for improvement - And They Actually Stay Put.

Seeing our best players departing for clubs overseas may give you a warm feeling but how does that help our club?

Does it win us more games for us on the Pitch? No

Does it win us championships? No

Does it attract more members?

You could draw some kind of vague argument that some people might come to see club breeding future stars for elsewhere.

However let’s face it a club Winning when you see them is always going to draw more fans than a club that has produced some good players who are now elsewhere.

People are paying to see our club’s performance, they can see our past players’ performance on television at home.

NOTE: I know the above as I am one of the few sods who attends VFA/VPL games and barely anybody is their on the hope of seeing a future Big League Star.

Edited February 2, 2012 by cadete

[Huzie]

It's about finding someone who can find the right level of youth/older players, we didn't have the luxury of being the first Melbourne team so it will take 10/15 years to gain the support that victory have to make us financially stable, selling young players might be the way to keep this schip floating until then. I can't see any reason we can't win a title by playing 4-5 players under the age of 24.

[Torn Asunder]

What is with obsession with Heart having to go down a Youth approach?

I mean are you serious about drawing up a list of Youth Team Managers?

You do realise we are a Professional Football club in our own right, not a Youth Team or a Feeder Club?

How does this benefit truly benefit as supporters of Melbourne Heart to solely focus on Youth?

If anything it works against us having such a focus because any young players that we do develop once they reach the level of being one of the better players in their position (Whilst still young) they will head overseas.

Conversely if we have slightly older players that can play at the exact same high level but they won’t be poached by overseas club as it would be seen that their full potential has been achieved and that there is less room for improvement - And They Actually Stay Put.

Seeing our best players departing for clubs overseas may give you a warm feeling but how does that help our club?

Does it win us more games for us on the Pitch? No

Does it win us championships? No

Does it attract more members?

You could draw some kind of vague argument that some people might come to see club breeding future stars for elsewhere.

However let’s face it a club Winning when you see them is always going to draw more fans than a club that has produced some good players who are now elsewhere.

People are paying to see our club’s performance, they can see our past players’ performance on television at home.

NOTE: I know the above as I am one of the few sods who attends VFA/VPL games and barely anybody is their on the hope of seeing a future Big League Star.

I did not say that our sole focus should be on Youth. I actually said that Hearts emphasis should be on Youth Development and attractive football, and I should have also added winning and being successful (I agree with you there).

As well as youth, the clubs needs a good proportion of experienced players. Earlier in the year, the mix was just about right at the Heart (although injuries have caused some issues and thrown out the mix - I would suggest that if we could have kept our experienced players, especially Madaschi and Fred, we may be sitting close to the top right now.

In terms of young players, with the huge number kids playing soccer in this country, and the number of exciting young kids who are starting to come through due to better all-round youth development, Australia is going to be a gold mine for future talent. These kids are so much better than the majority of journeymen who came into the A-league when it first kicked off, as well as those who continue to come back from failed excusions overseas.

With the European markets drying up significantly and more worldwide money coming into Asia AND with the continuing opportunity for A-League players to play for Australia (look at the Olyroo squad and the debate around that) the young players will be a core part of the any team that chases long term success in Australia. That being said, clubs do need to hold onto these players until they become so valuable that the only option is to sell them.

Crystal balling, in three or four year times, after winning the title and having some success in Asia, I wouldn't be too upset if Socceroos Mate, Babalj or Behich went off to Italy or the EPL...and when this happens we will have ready made players to step in and fill the breech, or we can purchase those more experienced players with the transfer fees, and so the cycle continues on and on....

hats off to you for going to the Youth games.... I have been meaning to get to a few of those...

Edited February 2, 2012 by Torn Asunder

[Tesla]

The salary cap makes youth development fairly pointless.

[mg91]

I think that it is important that we respect the ideal of attractive football, community engagement and youth development. These three pillars are a large part of why Melbourne Heart were such an attractive side to me, personally when they entered the competition. JVS has given us a very solid foundation. The improvement between last season and this season has been obvious, and it has been significant for such a short period of time. It would be silly to throw that away in hope of instant success. Chances are, if we did that, we wouldn't achieve much straight away anyway.

This is a good opportunity for the club to push on though. It is naive to expect that the Heart will find someone who will dedicate themselves to carring on the good work of JVS. It doesn't work like that. Every coach, whether it be Milicic, another local or a foreigner, will want to stamp his own style on the team. They will want to make Melbourne Heart theirs. It's about a balance. Any manager that comes in would be foolish to completely disregard what has been established, but I would never expect them to just try and emulate JVS. The results suggest that whilst JVS has done a good job of getting us off the ground, there is still room for improvement.

The next coach will have to be one who can identify the strengths of JVS' approach and set up, but also be able to find the weaknesses that will allow us to continue to improve in the future. Candidates? That's never going to be easy. Much like transfers, it is hard to look at the global market and make predictions, because Melbourne Heart as a project, and as a result of it's limited resources, remains attractive to only a small niche of staff and players from outside of Australia.

[cadete]

Dear Ghod,

I am sick of hearing about “Attractive Football” I actually hate this term...

Yet for some reason there is a large portion of Heart supporters that thinks everything is going to be alright because we play “Attractive Football”.

The most Attractive football that attracts fans through the gates that we need to save our club is Winning Football.

What has Attractive Football brought us so far???

No finals campaign last year – When the squad was easily good enough for one.

A bunch of Wingers with Senior Professional Contracts playing in the NYL, as two babies fight out in central defence and leak us goals.

A chance of yet again missing finals – as instead of signing a Defender like Madaschi we signed the star that is David Williams.

Barely any supporters.

[heart_fan10]

8 games left to play, 3 points from getting 3rd spot. If we can have a good end to the season and get a top 3 finish, you would think champions league football would create a biggest interest in the club

[mg91]

Dear Ghod,

I am sick of hearing about “Attractive Football” I actually hate this term...

Yet for some reason there is a large portion of Heart supporters that thinks everything is going to be alright because we play “Attractive Football”.

The most Attractive football that attracts fans through the gates that we need to save our club is Winning Football.

What has Attractive Football brought us so far???

No finals campaign last year – When the squad was easily good enough for one.

A bunch of Wingers with Senior Professional Contracts playing in the NYL, as two babies fight out in central defence and leak us goals.

A chance of yet again missing finals – as instead of signing a Defender like Madaschi we signed the star that is David Williams.

Barely any supporters.

Not sure where I said, "everything is going to be alright because we play 'attractive football'", but I digress.

I said that the style in which we play is part of what made this club attractive to me. Winning is an obvious ambition for the club, and it's one I want the club to fulfill, but winning football and good football aren't mutually exclusive, and I'm sure I don't have to point to the any number of teams that have proved that over the last 12 months.

If anything, we need to get better at playing attractive football.

I would say that if any of those three pillars I discussed earlier were to be sacraficed it would be curbing the emphasis on youth. This is a team that needs experience and a bit of strength. To be fair, the balance is just about right when we have a full complement of players, it's when we lose the experienced ones that we crumble. All the teams that have achieved success have done so with a spine of experience. Hammill, Good et al are error prone because they are very inexperienced.

My major qualm with JVS' recruitment is that he came into this season with one recognized experienced central defender in Simon Colosimo, who is so injury prone he never plays anyway. That's not a result of trying to play attractive football though, it's a result of a lack of foresight in that department. The loss of Madaschi has been massive, and perhaps we should have looked to cut lose a Taseski or Ibrahim in favour of that experience. I see your point, I just think you chose to attack the wrong pillar so to speak.

[Cammo]

Mg91 with one of the best posts to grace the forum. Hear hear.

Edit: I meant the first one, but the second is good too.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Cammo

[cadete]

Not sure where I said, "everything is going to be alright because we play 'attractive football'", but I digress.

I said that the style in which we play is part of what made this club attractive to me. Winning is an obvious ambition for the club, and it's one I want the club to fulfill, but winning football and good football aren't mutually exclusive, and I'm sure I don't have to point to the any number of teams that have proved that over the last 12 months.

If anything, we need to get better at playing attractive football.

I would say that if any of those three pillars I discussed earlier were to be sacraficed it would be curbing the emphasis on youth. This is a team that needs experience and a bit of strength. To be fair, the balance is just about right when we have a full complement of players, it's when we lose the experienced ones that we crumble. All the teams that have achieved success have done so with a spine of experience. Hammill, Good et al are error prone because they are very inexperienced.

My major qualm with JVS' recruitment is that he came into this season with one recognized experienced central defender in Simon Colosimo, who is so injury prone he never plays anyway. That's not a result of trying to play attractive football though, it's a result of a lack of foresight in that department. The loss of Madaschi has been massive, and perhaps we should have looked to cut lose a Taseski or Ibrahim in favour of that experience. I see your point, I just think you chose to attack the wrong pillar so to speak.

Its not fair debating with a future Professional Football Writer.

[mg91]

Hahaha, now I feel like a twat!

[perthheart]

Adrie Koster anyone? Left Brugges not that long ago and is currently unattached. Has coached almost every club in Holland including Ajax from youth team right the way up to first team. Would follow along the exact same lines as JVS.

[cadete]

Can I just add that calling Merrick a Brit Manager does not really apply.

He has been in Aus since the mid 70's. I don't even think he came here to even play football rather just for the sun and he chose to contuine playing the game here.

His whole coaching caper begin and finnished here years and years ago so his really more of a home grown manager with a thick accent.

In saying that the money Brits demand over here it is not worth getting one as we can only afford duds.

[Butty]

This is a huge decision for the club and it can't be underestimated, absolutely massive.

Milicic would be the safe option and I wouldn't be against his appointment, however, there's no question that a man with similar credentials to JVS would be better. No brainer.

However, the last thing I want, is for us to go for a "big name" manager. A Zola, if you will.

Steer clear, ffs.

We need results alot more than we need notability. I also agree with the notion that "Attractive Football" should be an important factor in signing a manager. No, no it's not. We haven't even played very attractive football, to be very honest.

Our biggest result, 4-0 away to Sydney, wasn't even as a result of us "passing them out of the game" It's a perpetuated myth that we play Attractive Football. It's a myth based on the fact our manager is Dutch, played for Ajax and has a lovely tan.

As far as homegrown, go no further than Milicic, IMO.

[jw1739]

My major qualm with JVS' recruitment is that he came into this season with one recognized experienced central defender in Simon Colosimo, who is so injury prone he never plays anyway. That's not a result of trying to play attractive football though, it's a result of a lack of foresight in that department. The loss of Madaschi has been massive, and perhaps we should have looked to cut lose a Taseski or Ibrahim in favour of that experience. I see your point, I just think you chose to attack the wrong pillar so to speak.

Not sure who was actually responsible for the final decisions (or recommendations to the Board?) on recruitment - JvS or JD? In any case it wasn't a matter of cutting loose a Taseski or an Ibrahim - they were and are under contract - it was a case of 'Why the hell did we sign Maycon and David Williams when blind Freddy could see we needed experienced defenders?' Neither Maycon nor Williams added anything that we didn't already have in the squad, as many people said at the time.

[jw1739]

We haven't even played very attractive football, to be very honest.

Our biggest result, 4-0 away to Sydney, wasn't even as a result of us "passing them out of the game" It's a perpetuated myth that we play Attractive Football. It's a myth based on the fact our manager is Dutch, played for Ajax and has a lovely tan.

Agreed. Last season, yes, perhaps. Remember that? We were going to play 'down the wings, with width, and possession football in midfield.' This season - pump it long and hope.

[Huzie]

Williams was a great signing that just didn't turn out so well, maycon was the bad signing, but we were in talks with defenders if everyone remembers but they wanted to much (levchenko was one)

[DutchPride]

Why go for Milicic, why? Just because he is our Assistant manager & is cheap, f*ck off.

[Che]

Marco van Basten is out of a job atm - It would be like hiring JVS's twin brother. And a waste of money.

And i seriously don't get what's wrong with AM, even if he isn't super experienced - he knows the team well, already knows its strengths/weaknesses, and would be cheap. We could spend more money on marketing or advertising.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Che

[mg91]

Bryan Robson? Just kidding of course.

But seriously, rumour has it Mourinho's quitting Madrid at the end of the season. Coincidence? I think not.

[Sash]

Not sure who was actually responsible for the final decisions (or recommendations to the Board?) on recruitment - JvS or JD? In any case it wasn't a matter of cutting loose a Taseski or an Ibrahim - they were and are under contract - it was a case of 'Why the hell did we sign Maycon and David Williams when blind Freddy could see we needed experienced defenders?' Neither Maycon nor Williams added anything that we didn't already have in the squad, as many people said at the time.

Not sure it's worthwhile going through this again. But if we signed a defender instead of a striker, we would've only had Babalj or Hoffman as proper no.9's and Babalj was injured for the first part of the season. The problem wasn't signing a striker, but not signing a good one. If we got Smeltz instead of Maycon, we'd be laughing.

Colosimo, Thompson, Hamill and Good was always looking dicey, but we haven't been left without options at any stage. I'm happy to go with Hamill and Good at the back, even if it costs goals in the short term. They're both going to be fine players and will benefit from the experience. Colosimo wasn't injury prone last season so there was no reason to expect he would be this season.

Recruiting is never going to be a 100% success, but we've got more right than wrong. Fred, Germano, Dugandzic and Good were great aquisitions for a club that was reigning in player spending and had to replace Sibon, Skoko and Aloisi. Williams has been disappointing so far, but we know he can play, and Maycon looks like the out-and-out mistake. In any case, I think the credit for our recruiting lies more with Didulica than JVS.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Sash

[cadete]

Kind of dont get the point...

Our only decent striker was injured, and we we did not win a game until he came back...

How is that good recruiting?

[Sash]

It's the striker v defender debate we had in the pre-season when I think we had one spot left on the list. The problem wasn't in signing a striker, but in not signing a good one.

Maycon wasn't good recruiting, but we needed a striker at the time. But other than Maycon, our recruiting has beed good.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Sash

[mg91]

26 goals conceded in 19 games suggests otherwise. We needed a defender, badly. Hammill and Good are solid players and will be good, but right now they're too young to man the defence.

[Sash]

Only the four sides above us have conceded less. Obviously Madashi was very important for us, but on the other hand, we've been without Colosimo for almost the entire season.

At the time, the only viable options as strikers were Babalj and Hoffman, neither of whom had scored more than maybe a couple of goals at a professional level.

[Tesla]

Why go for Milicic, why? Just because he is our Assistant manager & is cheap, f*ck off.

Because I said he was good and I am usually right.

[Hendo]

Ante Milicic rofl.

Bring back Pappas, then fear us.

[DutchPride]

Thank you.

[ToonHeart]

Can someone please apply legitimate, using Football Manager credentials.

Inspiration - When a Football Manager player applied for the Middlesbrough job

That is amazing, think I might just apply for the job at Melbourne FC.

[heart_fan10]

It's the striker v defender debate we had in the pre-season when I think we had one spot left on the list. The problem wasn't in signing a striker, but in not signing a good one.

Maycon wasn't good recruiting, but we needed a striker at the time. But other than Maycon, our recruiting has beed good.

if we kept sibon for one more year instead of signing maycon, it would've been perfect. That way for the time Fred is injured, Sibon would have been able to slot back into the midfield and we would still have a quality player to distribute the ball and dictate play which we miss when Fred is out.

[mulhollanddrive]

If one of the criteria is convenience, that will lead to failure. See MV.

I'd love a European manager who can drag along a genuine marquee player.

[Huzie]

If one of the criteria is convenience, that will lead to failure. See MV.

I'd love a European manager who can drag along a genuine marquee player.

Mehmet was a failed NYL manager turn head coach, doesn't compair to Milicic...

[Che]

If one of the criteria is convenience, that will lead to failure. See MV.

If i'm not mistaken, Pep Guardiola's appointment at Barcelona was coming off the back of him being Assistant/Youth team manager. Even though it's an extremely different situation here in the A-league to Europe, and it's a bit of a long bow to liken Milicic to Guardiola, it shows that Mehmet isn't the only example of "conveniance", and that it doesn't always end so poorly.

Admittedly i'd probably prefer a more experienced coach, but i wouldn't be unhappy or worried with AM.

[Huzie]

Milicic will CONTINUE the style we are playing, Mehmet just wanted to play " short sharp football" which means nothing at all and Jim magiltion has also said the same... The difference is we have a game plan but victory are 7 years in and are still in the dark! Very big difference!

[toogood18]

Wouldn't mind seeing possibly Paul Okon being given a look in as well. He is Olyroos assistant and seems to me like he would want to play a passing game, dutch style mainly.

Ante Millicic though has to be the front runner, firstly players are familiar with him and I think having done his time under JVS he will definitely play a passing and free flowing style, with the use of wing backs, basically the Dutch style.

[Hammerhead]

Sibon, Player-manager. You know it makes sense.

[Huzie]

Sibon scored last night again, we better snap him up soon cause I heard that Liverpool want to do a straight swap with Andy Carroll!

[jw1739]

Milicic will CONTINUE the style we are playing...

I wouldn't have a problem with AM if we can't get Ange. But don't we want something more than continuation of style? Don't we want improvements in the actual results that we obtain? Whatever the reasons - and we can debate those until the cows come home - we have been thumped by Adelaide, Perth and Wellington during recent weeks. Journeyman teams that we should be able to beat fairly easily. IMO our next coach has a challenge to turn our undoubted talents into a winning culture.