Heavy handed security...

[hedaik]

Active membership or not there will always be active support. Players and staff come and go true active support doesn't, if people love the heart they will come. Australians have thicker skin than to let some minor incidents of violence deter them for supporting their team.

 

Its more about the reputation of the club than anything else. Companies don't want to be associated with something that doesn't fit with their image of how they want to be portrayed in the market. A reputation is hard to shake as well, West Coast still have a reputation of being drug addicts even though the media hysteria over their incidents was over a relatively brief period of their clubs existance. We're still young and the wrong image at this stage can hurt us for a long time. 

[Luke]

Active membership or not there will always be active support. Players and staff come and go true active support doesn't, if people love the heart they will come. Australians have thicker skin than to let some minor incidents of violence deter them for supporting their team.

 

I agree. This happens at AFL games especially when Carlton-Collingwood play yet you still get those drongo's attending AFL games.

 

To add on to the that, if Channel 7 filmed AFL incidents as did Fox happen to film this incident, it will be like "Bazza, you reckon things like that pumps up that crowd? Ha-ha-ha" and sweep it all under the carpet and take it as a joke.

 

Yep, when there is a fight at the ALF it's just boys blowing off some steam, when it happens at the sokkah it's a full scale riot 

[Boffins]

Yeah I understand where you're coming from, marketing wise it doesn't help the club but, also note I hate comparing football to other codes but coming from a Maori family when there's a fight in the rugby it's always "oh they're just country boys that's what they do" I mean go back and watch the state of origin, it's almost half about who will kick the shit out of who maroons or blues people expect it there between players who are professional so I don't understand why the standard should be higher for intoxicated supporters

[Torn Asunder]

Melbournian, unfortunately one bad apple can ruin the crop...

Regardless of whose fault it was, the incidents throughout the season and the attached perceptions, IMO have added up and simply will not be brushed aside by the club. I envisage changes to Active support and active support memberships next season. Hopefully this also includes more open two way channels of communication and transparent accountability from all parties involved.

Although it never should have gotten to this point, a review should not be considered a bad thing, or even a form of supporter punishment. I see an opportunity for YS to rebuild on its image and show that each and every one of the active members performs their part supporting the team as its 12th player, whilst adding to the atmosphere that is so unique and important to the game of football.

Ultimately I want for YS to be the best and most respected active group in the league. At the moment, the perception is that we are far from that achievement.

Someone mentioned in another post that an Active Support Code of Conduct be drawn up. I think that this is definetly something that the club should pursue with the senior members of YS, and it should be signed off by each and every Active member before an active membership is issued. There should also be a formal process for the Active members to air grievances.

Time to get some of these things right once and for all

[FB.]

The day our little Ando became a man.

Delete that picture you flog. Edited March 18, 2013 by FB.

[Tommykins]

Sorry mate, earnest question, why?

[FB.]

Sorry mate, earnest question, why?

Are you a deadset idiot?!

Would you like a photo of yourself being arrested being plastered all over the internet on a public forum where anyone can fucking see it???

The bloke has been through enough already, last thing we need is our own supporters doing shit like that to one of our own. Pull your fucking head in.

Edited March 18, 2013 by FB.

[loriente]

Front page of the mX. Not a great look for the club.

 

Edited March 18, 2013 by loriente

[hedaik]

Yeah I understand where you're coming from, marketing wise it doesn't help the club but, also note I hate comparing football to other codes but coming from a Maori family when there's a fight in the rugby it's always "oh they're just country boys that's what they do" I mean go back and watch the state of origin, it's almost half about who will kick the shit out of who maroons or blues people expect it there between players who are professional so I don't understand why the standard should be higher for intoxicated supporters

??????????????? Are you seriously wondering why rugby players are allowed to get into some biff on the field but spectators arent??

[Melburnian]

Melbournian, unfortunately one bad apple can ruin the crop...

Regardless of whose fault it was, the incidents throughout the season and the attached perceptions, IMO have added up and simply will not be brushed aside by the club. I envisage changes to Active support and active support memberships next season. Hopefully this also includes more open two way channels of communication and transparent accountability from all parties involved.

Although it never should have gotten to this point, a review should not be considered a bad thing, or even a form of supporter punishment. I see an opportunity for YS to rebuild on its image and show that each and every one of the active members performs their part supporting the team as its 12th player, whilst adding to the atmosphere that is so unique and important to the game of football.

Ultimately I want for YS to be the best and most respected active group in the league. At the moment, the perception is that we are far from that achievement.

Someone mentioned in another post that an Active Support Code of Conduct be drawn up. I think that this is definetly something that the club should pursue with the senior members of YS, and it should be signed off by each and every Active member before an active membership is issued. There should also be a formal process for the Active members to air grievances.

Time to get some of these things right once and for all

What incidents are you referring to being an Yarraside problem?

Last game we had our capo thrown out for minimal and over handed force being displayed by these low IQ nitwits in ACG. When I went to reason with them and ask what happened I was pushed and sworn at and being aggressively harassed. Copped an elbow to the lip. So we decided to move.

That was it. As far as I am concerned the fault of allowing the group to easily access the North end near the RBB is that of stadium management, the low IQ mob, Vic Pol and the club. Also some members of the RBB showed just as much aggression towards the minority of Yarraside members who went that end to taunt.

If your talking about the broken chair incident, it's funny cause I see the core members every week and I haven't seen anyone of us banned for it. As stated numerous occasions it was Derby specials who did most of the damage. Who's fault is that?

Again, I can't help but look to stadium management who decided that our active area will be GA seating. So basically anyone can come in and do whatever. How is this any fault of the Yarraside? From what I saw as I was right in the middle of it is the core group trying to start chants while the Derby specials continued to break chairs and chant different tunes.

I think the club have to be very careful in how they tackle this. I know your just reporting back from the club as your on that committee thingy, but again, generalisations from my experience would say the group "Yaraside" are doing very little wrong. It's a pleasure being involved and my mates love it.

Had a new guy there last week and couldn't wipe the smile off his face. He will be a Melbourne Heart active member next season.

If the club want to do something, maybe they should look at a better security company, allowance for a degree of self policing and not allowing GA into an away bay.

These things happen, There would be no problem. Club could do worse than getting their house in order before pinging the fans.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Melburnian

[Boffins]

Enlighten me mate

Last I checked violence is unacceptable no matter who or what the context was.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Boffins

[hedaik]

Enlighten me mate

Last I checked violence is unacceptable no matter who or what the context was.

So because UFC allows physical contact, are you saying we should all be allowed to kick box each other in the heads when watching a game of soccer?

[Boffins]

Wel I'm stumped mate you win this arguement

[MaliMate]

Enlighten me mate

Last I checked violence is unacceptable no matter who or what the context was.

So because UFC allows physical contact, are you saying we should all be allowed to kick box each other in the heads when watching a game of soccer?

And here I was thinking that UFC stood for Ultimate FIGHTING Championship.

[Boffins]

It's on now double stoner debate attack!

[Torn Asunder]

Melbournian, any adverse incident that attracts prime time media attention, or news print / internet space is a disaster for the club.  These incidents impact on the ogoing viability of the club going forward in every aspect; club percetion, sponsorship, members, supporters, etc.  When these things happen, I imagine that the club officials and board become very angry and dissappointed.

 

There have been two high profile incidents that have arisen; chair gate and the punch.  There was also the shift of active supporters to the opposite side of the ground which had the potential to cause a massive all in brawl and an incident of EPIC proportions.  To say that this was the fault of security is not true....it was the choice of certain active supporters to move to the other end and actively support, which, is against the rules.  Just because you can, doesnt make it right....

 

Any issues that come out of the active area or any active support will tarnish Yarraside by association - this is a fact.   

 

I agree that security is a big part of the issue.  Access into the active area home and away AND self policing is another.  Hopefully in going forward the club looks at all these aspects.  

 

The active support is a privelage given to fans by the club and the A-League and it needs to be remebered that privelages can be taken away just as easily as they are given.  Changes in many aspects need to be made so that things works better.

[Melburnian]

Melbournian, any adverse incident that attracts prime time media attention, or news print / internet space is a disaster for the club. These incidents impact on the ogoing viability of the club going forward in every aspect; club percetion, sponsorship, members, supporters, etc. When these things happen, I imagine that the club officials and board become very angry and dissappointed.

There have been two high profile incidents that have arisen; chair gate and the punch. There was also the shift of active supporters to the opposite side of the ground which had the potential to cause a massive all in brawl and an incident of EPIC proportions. To say that this was the fault of security is not true....it was the choice of certain active supporters to move to the other end and actively support, which, is against the rules. Just because you can, doesnt make it right....

Any issues that come out of the active area or any active support will tarnish Yarraside by association - this is a fact.

I agree that security is a big part of the issue. Access into the active area home and away AND self policing is another. Hopefully in going forward the club looks at all these aspects.

The active support is a privelage given to fans by the club and the A-League and it needs to be remebered that privelages can be taken away just as easily as they are given. Changes in many aspects need to be made so that things works better.

No offence but your last paragraph is a joke. Fans should be privileged? What? For giving their time and money to do extra to create an atmosphere? Yep, thank you club, I feel honoured. Mate the club are lucky and should feel privileged to have fans.

Ok so again two incidents you said have drawn attention and yet I'm not seeing how this is associated with Yarraside.

A) Chair Gate - again, how is this a Yarraside issue. The club, Etihad stadium, The Victory and Ticketmaster allowed GA into the Heart away area. How can Yarraside control people they don't know or are even a part of the supporter base? So this shouldn't be taken into account for the punishments the club are looking to dish out.

The punch - Don't know this moron, not seen him before and found out today not even a Heart member. Yarraside issue? Active Area issue? How?

Please explain.

The move North was made because ACG security were criminally violent towards our fans. This was the initial and main point for the move. Not to chant at or have a go at the RBB. It's because the club failed to listen to countless pleas to get rid of ASG as they are deficient in their job. If the club listened and worked with fans earlier this wouldn't have happened.

Before that, Yarraside were brilliant and no problems occurred.

[Sash]

Melbournian, unfortunately one bad apple can ruin the crop...

Regardless of whose fault it was, the incidents throughout the season and the attached perceptions, IMO have added up and simply will not be brushed aside by the club. I envisage changes to Active support and active support memberships next season. Hopefully this also includes more open two way channels of communication and transparent accountability from all parties involved.

Although it never should have gotten to this point, a review should not be considered a bad thing, or even a form of supporter punishment. I see an opportunity for YS to rebuild on its image and show that each and every one of the active members performs their part supporting the team as its 12th player, whilst adding to the atmosphere that is so unique and important to the game of football.

Ultimately I want for YS to be the best and most respected active group in the league. At the moment, the perception is that we are far from that achievement.

Someone mentioned in another post that an Active Support Code of Conduct be drawn up. I think that this is definetly something that the club should pursue with the senior members of YS, and it should be signed off by each and every Active member before an active membership is issued. There should also be a formal process for the Active members to air grievances.

Time to get some of these things right once and for all

What incidents are you referring to being an Yarraside problem?

Last game we had our capo thrown out for minimal and over handed force being displayed by these low IQ nitwits in ACG. When I went to reason with them and ask what happened I was pushed and sworn at and being aggressively harassed. Copped an elbow to the lip. So we decided to move.

That was it. As far as I am concerned the fault of allowing the group to easily access the North end near the RBB is that of stadium management, the low IQ mob, Vic Pol and the club. Also some members of the RBB showed just as much aggression towards the minority of Yarraside members who went that end to taunt.

If your talking about the broken chair incident, it's funny cause I see the core members every week and I haven't seen anyone of us banned for it. As stated numerous occasions it was Derby specials who did most of the damage. Who's fault is that?

Again, I can't help but look to stadium management who decided that our active area will be GA seating. So basically anyone can come in and do whatever. How is this any fault of the Yarraside? From what I saw as I was right in the middle of it is the core group trying to start chants while the Derby specials continued to break chairs and chant different tunes.

I think the club have to be very careful in how they tackle this. I know your just reporting back from the club as your on that committee thingy, but again, generalisations from my experience would say the group "Yaraside" are doing very little wrong. It's a pleasure being involved and my mates love it.

Had a new guy there last week and couldn't wipe the smile off his face. He will be a Melbourne Heart active member next season.

If the club want to do something, maybe they should look at a better security company, allowance for a degree of self policing and not allowing GA into an away bay.

These things happen, There would be no problem. Club could do worse than getting their house in order before pinging the fans.

How does self policing work exactly? Why does active support need permission to self police instead of just doing it? Who's stopping active groups (across the league) from policing their areas?

 

See, with the chairs, the last derby wasn't the first time chairs were broken. It happened before, and people came on here boasting and laughing about it. So of course it happened again. I can't see that anybody tried to do anything about it either before, during, or afterwards. Maybe most of it was derby specials. But surely if we're to expect Yarraside to be able to police it's own area, the leadership needs to show some preparedness to do it?

 

There's no question that security acts in an over-zealous manner. And I've met Ando and think it's ridiculous he'd be kicked out of a game. But as well as reforming how security do their job, fans also have to take responsibility on their side. Across the league, and with us as well, you can't just complain about security and hold protests, while staying silent when people in active areas do the wrong thing. One of our supporters (not saying he was Yarraside, I don't know who he was) went into the opposition supporter bay and king hit an opposition fan. It could've started something a lot uglier. What's going to happen next time? What do we do about it? Ignore it? Or condemn it as somethining we don't want to see happen again. All of us have a responsibility to react in an appropriate manner.

 

My fear is that nothing will be done, everyone will seek to justify their own actions, and things will get worse. And we as fans will be to blame because we're the custodians of the gameday experience. Not the security. If we don't have the foresight and courage to protect what's great about our games, we're going to die off. I bring kids to our games and they love it. When I see all the kids at our games, I feel optimistic that the club has a future. But I'm already thinking that there's a possibility we won't go to the next WSW home game. Or the next Victory away game. Sadly, I fear that these events will escalate rather than subside because we don't seem willing to stop them.

[kontra.11]

But chanting at RBB rather than supporting the team is what it turned into.

Ando being kicked out was crazy but then there was a lack of leadership and the group became reactive. You don't leave your end to then go to another part of the stadium when you will face the same issues anyway. You protect your end.

If people were going to leave in protest then they should have left, not go to the other end and start chanting at the opposition fans. Sadly, YS ended up doing what BWB do and that is thinking they are more important than the club. Was horrible to watch.

And active support is NOT a privilege, it is a right!

Edited March 18, 2013 by kontra.11

[Bannon]

actually thought we where leaving nek minniut was in da crazy city end death crew.

[xXJawsaXx]

I actually think just leaving would have made a bigger impact, in fact that is what I thought we were initially doing, with that being said though, it was the right idea in moving to another section, but when we just started chanting at the RBB is when it got cringeworthy.

I also can help but laugh at the reaction, I did have a chuckle and facepalm at a guy who called up Triple M complaining about Yarraside, saying 'hoody' was one of us and going on to proclaim that we are 'burning our stadiums with flares'. A really 'Won't somebody please think of the children' moment.

The club needs to handle this maturely, they cannot do something overtly reactive in case it aggravates the situation, doing something like 'banning active support' for a game would be the absolute worst move possible (Not saying it will happen, but a kneejerk reaction like that would not surprise me). We need to be vocal in the mistreatment we get from ACG, with the hope of changing it.

I also think it is an Australian culture thing in terms of flares, protesting etc. I was telling my music teacher about it today who is English and he was laughing about it, he thought it was funny that we moved to the other end and when I told him it was next to the West Sydney supporters. I told him about the flare and he just shrugged and acted as if it was no issue. So yeah, I think it is somewhat cultural aswell.

[MrAiDaN66]

I love how this topic has gone way off topic

[Torn Asunder]

Sorry guys, I stand by my comments that Active Support (as defined by the League / the club) is a privelage, even though it may feel like a right and that you are helping the club by being Active.  Where you can stand, have banners, play instruments, etc, is limited to one small part of the ground and it is controlled by rules, and membership class, etc.  I also say, once again, the active supporters are very important to the club in every respect (12 th man so to speak).  The club, I do believe, recognise this, appreciates it and want the active support to be a success.

 

Melburnian, I hear what you are saying about Yarraside not being the ones specifically responsible....what I am saying is that when these incidents emanate out of the Active Areas, the image of YS is tarnished.  Therefore YS have a responsibility to prove that they can behave and self police.  The club also has a responsibility to provide open lines of communication with YS on issues.

 

In terms of the punch, it would have been a lot harder to pin the incident on YS if the active guys had stayed at the YS end. 

 

And unfortunately for the future of the club, the general public will believe the guy who rings Tripple M, the report in the MX / Herald Sun and the story on Channel 9 over a post on this forum....

[MrAiDaN66]

Active support is 100% not a privelage. We can sing whenever and wherever we want.

I don't understand how someone can say that it's a privelage?

[MrAiDaN66]

And don't get me wrong, 99% of your posts are great , and I agree with pretty much all of them but I don't now how you can justify it

[Duchess]

We can sing whenever and wherever we want.

 

Not train stations mate

[kontra.11]

Tom I get what your saying mate. No matter what fans may think, the controlling idiots at FFA consider active support a privilege and will act.

[jw1739]

How about we face the facts? When we enter AAMI Park and its surrounds we are subject to the conditions of entry to the event being held. Full stop. Whatever those may be. If we don't want to conform to these conditions then we should not go.

 

The stadium is an all-seater stadium. Whether various people like that or not, it is an all-seater stadium.

 

The 'active' area is a concession made to allow certain 'behaviours' and actions that are not permitted in the other parts of the stadium. Active membership, which gives the member access to the active area is also a concession.

 

Anyone who breaches the the conditions of entry or commits a civil or criminal offence whilst at AAMI Park should be held accountable for their actions.

 

Quite apart from these formal issues, all supporters should realise that their behaviours and actions go a long way to determine the public's image of football in general and Melbourne Heart in particular. Whether inside AAMI Park or elsewhere.

[Melburnian]

Take away the "privledge" of the active area.

I dare the club.

[kingofhearts]

Active support is 100% not a privelage. We can sing whenever and wherever we want.

I don't understand how someone can say that it's a privelage?

Agree with this. Any one who says otherwise is just a fool.

 

Many members of yarraside spend THERE time making banners, co-ordinating chants as well as creating the game day atmosphere.

 

At the end of the day i really could not give a fuck what the herald sun or whatever says about us. Everyone knows most media outlets have a vendetta for soccer, and they only print bad stories to print papers. Its funny how they didn't print a story about the other 13 home games we're we were well behaved.

 

There is simply no way of self-polcing yarraside. At the end of the day we are a small active area compared to WSW and Victory. We need all the people we can get in there. Half the people in yarraside anyway just buy genral admission tickets and walk in. How are you suppose to police that? Throw out half the stadium? And i would not like our capo leaders having to become the 'fun police' themselves. They have a hard enough time trying to get everyone to chant together, having them to 'self-police' yarraside as well would be a disaster.

 

Let me ask you this Torn asunder. How many issue's in the three years of our existance? 2 i take it??? And guess where you have read those stories on??? The herald sun. What a suprise o:

 

The fans ARE the club and this talk about how we supposively need them is redicolous. Heart hq should be giving Ando a blowjob right now, to show how sorry they are for the way they treated him on Saturday

[Ando]

Just to clear things up, I have no issues with the club, so please don't make hasty assumptions. 

[Pandev]

Brought me back to my Preston vs Sth Melbourne days. Not good for our game. Difficult to explain to my kids why a large group where provoking the visitors. I know it's fun, but not wise, particularly in this heightened "anti football" nanny state we live in. Can't stop one or two tools, it's gonna happen, but I won't support violence at a game.

I expected trouble the moment the crowd switched. We will now suffer a small set back with our reputation.

[heartofmelbourne12]

Lol people fucking over react! We moved sides because ACG clearly don't like us. If half of yarraside actually knew what happened there would of been more of a fight between ACG and members of yarraside. I certainly would of stepped in. We moved sides cos if it, it had nothing to do with rbb after that guy got hit they got angry. Wasn't even a heart member!! Media ruins us, we did absolutely nothing wrong

[kingofhearts]

Just to clear things up, I have no issues with the club, so please don't make hasty assumptions. 

Have they contacted you though?? Ask about what 'really' happened?

 

I understand atm everyone's attention is about finding that dickhead who king hit that WSW fan and rightfully so.

 

What i don't understand is there lack of attention to the REAL issue and that is the ACG 'tough kuntz' crew.

 

People want yarraside to be accountable for their actions, what about ACG?? Have any security guards been fired, fined or even banned themselves? It seems every week they continuouly miss use their powers, and than when we retaliate we get blamed. Its like teasing a tiger with a piece of meat.

 

I would love for Scotty Munn or for someone else in the heart HQ hirachy to come out and condemn there actions. Say something like 'we were appalled by the actions of ACG security last game and will be launching a full investigation for the actions last saturday night' It just seems no body cares that yarraside continued to get taunted and mis-handled, and than when things escalate, we get blamed!!!!

 

There will be a day in the future were a ACG security guard will pick on the wrong motherfucker at a heart game, and will get the living shit kicked out of him. The next day in the papers it will talk about how 'soccer holligans' strike again without them ever knowing of all the trouble the ACG has previously caused.

 

It just seems Nobody at heart HQ cares about how bad one of our leaders we're treated on Saturday and thats what pisses me off

Edited March 18, 2013 by kingofhearts

[Luke]

Did Acg ark up before or after the flare was lit ?

[Ando]

Kingofhearts, see below.

Just to clear things up, I have no issues with the club, so please don't make hasty assumptions.

[soxrow]

The way security handled things was pretty ridiculous, the recommendations of getting these guys to sit with the club, senior member of our Active Supporter groups and the Police to get some kind of dialogue.

From what I saw (and I have to say I was half looking at it and half looking at the game) the police hardly got involved until Ando was out of the seats, so security need a bit of a clip, I've seen sheep handled better than what Ando was! And no Ando, not comparing you to a sheep!!!

 

I fear for the possible repercussions for next year, I'm proud to be a member of the club, and hope we all can move on next year.

 

However, I fear that ACG and stadium management have no grasp on it (in particular Eithad who insist on allowing anyone to sit in our away bay) and we will see more trouble from anyone who thinks its ok to come be a thug at our games.

 

SO lets get the security, Police and Staidum management to do their job and liase with all patrons, especially the active members, to ensure all and sundry have a good experience and we don't ever see what happened Saturday night happen again

[MKD]

Brought me back to my Preston vs Sth Melbourne days.

 

Except the South Melb gjupci deserved it.  jk.

 

 

Did anyone else happen to catch 'The Project' report on this tonight? Some of the people on that panel are absolute idiots. They stated that the guy who punched the WSW was a Heart fan, but is there any definitive proof of that? The bloke they interviewed was spot on though. This kind of violence should not be tolerated, but it isn't confined to soccer. As he mentioned, a lot of soccer fans are also AFL and NRL fans, and this kind of stuff happens everywhere in our society. 

 

[soxrow]

I sent this message to ACG on their webpage, and would recommend other supporters do the same.

Feedback is appreciated.

 

To whom it may concern,

I am a Melbourne Heart member who sits in the active area and was witness to the shocking scenes that took place on Saturday night.

 

I respect the extremely difficult jobs that your security people have, and for the most part I have no problems, but I felt that the way the situation in our active area was handled was quite frankly disappointing.

 

I am not privy to the actual operating conditions that your firm has under the agreement you have with AAMI Park management and the FFA, however I feel the actions of your employees created a serious problem for the remaining patrons of the stadium.

 

What also was astounding to myself and some of my fellow supporters was the fact that your employees caused severe discomfort to other patrons by inciting a near riot. I for one felt extremely unsafe when this happened.

 

Could someone please explain to me how it was that ACG, as a private security firm, took such heavyhanded action? There were special events police in attendance, surely as the major law enforcement agency it should have been them. With all due respect to the training the employees of your firm receive, I believe the police should have acted and would have co-ordinated a much more satisfactory response.

 

I would recommend that perhaps some of the senior security staff could perhaps arrange some kind of dialogue with the Heart, members of our active support group and the Police to ensure these scenes do not happen again.

 

I would appreciate some kind of feedback based on my above comments to my email address provided and would like to see some action taken before next season.

[Bannon]

you forgot to mention how the acg gaurds lett a 'heart fan' into an away bay otherwise quality.