Heavy handed security...

[kingofhearts]

Brought me back to my Preston vs Sth Melbourne days.

 

Except the South Melb gjupci deserved it.  jk.

 

 

Did anyone else happen to catch 'The Project' report on this tonight? Some of the people on that panel are absolute idiots. They stated that the guy who punched the WSW was a Heart fan, but is there any definitive proof of that? The bloke they interviewed was spot on though. This kind of violence should not be tolerated, but it isn't confined to soccer. As he mentioned, a lot of soccer fans are also AFL and NRL fans, and this kind of stuff happens everywhere in our society. 

 

Typical soccer beat up story mate, they have one once a week, basically people are scared of soccer becoming the number 1 sport in the country, so they have to continue to beat up the most passionant supporters in all sports. Any chant that isn't 'your team here' clap clap clap is considered 'unruly'.

 

 

 

I sent this message to ACG on their webpage, and would recommend other supporters do the same.

Feedback is appreciated.

 

To whom it may concern,

I am a Melbourne Heart member who sits in the active area and was witness to the shocking scenes that took place on Saturday night.

 

I respect the extremely difficult jobs that your security people have, and for the most part I have no problems, but I felt that the way the situation in our active area was handled was quite frankly disappointing.

 

I am not privy to the actual operating conditions that your firm has under the agreement you have with AAMI Park management and the FFA, however I feel the actions of your employees created a serious problem for the remaining patrons of the stadium.

 

What also was astounding to myself and some of my fellow supporters was the fact that your employees caused severe discomfort to other patrons by inciting a near riot. I for one felt extremely unsafe when this happened.

 

Could someone please explain to me how it was that ACG, as a private security firm, took such heavyhanded action? There were special events police in attendance, surely as the major law enforcement agency it should have been them. With all due respect to the training the employees of your firm receive, I believe the police should have acted and would have co-ordinated a much more satisfactory response.

 

I would recommend that perhaps some of the senior security staff could perhaps arrange some kind of dialogue with the Heart, members of our active support group and the Police to ensure these scenes do not happen again.

 

I would appreciate some kind of feedback based on my above comments to my email address provided and would like to see some action taken before next season.

This. Just sent them this myself. Good initiative.

[soxrow]

you forgot to mention how the acg gaurds lett a 'heart fan' into an away bay otherwise quality.

Realised as soon as I sent it mate, sorry! If I get any feedback from them I'll mention it, I have a few things to say

[Bannon]

no need to be sorry mate

[heartofmelbourne12]

Munn should sit with us, these cunts take it to far. Their power gets to their heads. They go to far with us we should have every right to hit back

[MrAiDaN66]

We should ask munn to sit with or next to or above yarraside to see how they act.

[alexiano]

We should ask munn to sit with or next to or above yarraside to see how they act.

For sure. Dress Scotty up in terrace attire and go undercover.

[Red or Dead]

We should ask munn to sit with or next to or above yarraside to see how they act.

For sure. Dress Scotty up in terrace attire and go undercover.

I have a light blue hoody lying around he can wear! 

[RFC56]

We should ask munn to sit with or next to or above yarraside to see how they act.

Or David Lyon - General Manager Fan Engagement.

[red and white in that number]

Some of you lot are drama queens

 

I took a mate along last Saturday night for his first ever game.

He loved every minute of the experiance,from the train ride after the Imperial to the show of unity.

 

I think the AGC guys have been waiting for our last home game of the season to even up after what happened at the visitors.Correct me if i`m wrong but do AGC cover docklands as well.The security that night where pissed off because they lost control. 

[Bozza]

We should ask munn to sit with or next to or above yarraside to see how they act.

For sure. Dress Scotty up in terrace attire and go undercover.

On this weeks episode of Undercover Boss... Scott Munn goes undercover in the stands of AAMI Park...

[belaguttman]

Some of you lot are drama queens

 

I took a mate along last Saturday night for his first ever game.

He loved every minute of the experiance,from the train ride after the Imperial to the show of unity.

 

I think the AGC guys have been waiting for our last home game of the season to even up after what happened at the visitors.Correct me if i`m wrong but do AGC cover docklands as well.The security that night where pissed off because they lost control. 

... so they evened it up by losing control at AAMI as well?

[cadete]

ACG are dicks all year round,

 

At the AFL they even try to tell those I stand with to stop singing full stop.

 

Its a classic situation of bad pay attracting a lot of bad employees amongst some good.

[Kiro Kompiro]

Does anyone think that the vandalism at Etihad two seasons in a row might just have had wee bit of an effect on how strict security will be towards Heart active support?

[cadete]

Does anyone think that the vandalism at Etihad two seasons in a row might just have had wee bit of an effect on how strict security will be towards Heart active support?

ACG already set a fairly low standard last season in how they treated Heart Active Support.

 

But I am sure the last Derby had some impact on our current situation.

[belaguttman]

Does anyone think that the vandalism at Etihad two seasons in a row might just have had wee bit of an effect on how strict security will be towards Heart active support?

Of course, as will the lighting of flares. Whether as individuals we think flares are cool or not is irrelevant, if property is damaged or flares set off, the security people will become more vigilant. I would expect them to respond in a professional manner to dampen the situation rather than inflame it though. I also have the same expectation of us.

[Kiro Kompiro]

From security's point of view I would say that after the last Etihad game, their managers would have had a meeting with stadium management and both clubs managment.  The question would have been put:"Whilst these shits were ripping up chairs, where were your guys?  What do we pay you for?".  

 

That manager goes back to his employees:"Come down hard on these fuck sticks!"

 

Sure we have a right to expect professional security behaviour and I'm not on anyone's side here but IF some of our dickhead fans didn't light flares, didn't vandalise stadia, we might not be where we are today?

[FB.]

From security's point of view I would say that after the last Etihad game, their managers would have had a meeting with stadium management and both clubs managment.  The question would have been put:"Whilst these shits were ripping up chairs, where were your guys?  What do we pay you for?".  

 

That manager goes back to his employees:"Come down hard on these fuck sticks!"

 

Sure we have a right to expect professional security behaviour and I'm not on anyone's side here but IF some of our dickhead fans didn't light flares, didn't vandalise stadia, we might not be where we are today?

Yes, because it's the fans that have brought all this on. :rolleyes:

It's like everyone here has forgotten in this whole discussion that these same cockhead security where the ones that gave their Victory mates access to our storage areas and allowed them to steal our main fence banner and a whole bunch of our flags in first season. Prior to that point, there had been NO major instances of chair breaking or flare use before then. But I'm sure we brought all of the theft upon ourselves, right - with our behvaiour?

ACG are unprofessional in the extreme, If it had have been the club having tens of thosuands of dollars of it's merchandise lifted from AAMI Park, I'm sure their response would have been a lot different. The contract with them should have been torn up right then and there by the club after that.

People need to get into their heads that problems with ACG have been going on alot longer then just this season, and didn't just start with some broken chairs at Docklands.

[red and white in that number]

I cant wait for October 5 when we host the mongs at AAMI park

[Boffins]

From security's point of view I would say that after the last Etihad game, their managers would have had a meeting with stadium management and both clubs managment. The question would have been put:"Whilst these shits were ripping up chairs, where were your guys? What do we pay you for?".

That manager goes back to his employees:"Come down hard on these fuck sticks!"

Sure we have a right to expect professional security behaviour and I'm not on anyone's side here but IF some of our dickhead fans didn't light flares, didn't vandalise stadia, we might not be where we are today?

Are ya ayy cee gee in disguise.

[Kiro Kompiro]

yeah I'm ACG because our supporters haven't vandalised stadium seating two season in a row, and someone didn't just get king hit an away supporter in their active area after our active supporters moved next to them en mass, and no, none of that is going to make any difference as to how security have and will treat Heart active support.

 

FFS same old shit as the first time our supporters damaged Etihad, then when it happened again this season and now this, but hey we're the victims.  Always.  Always someone else's fault.

[cadete]

yeah I'm ACG because our supporters haven't vandalised stadium seating two season in a row, and someone didn't just get king hit an away supporter in their active area after our active supporters moved next to them en mass, and no, none of that is going to make any difference as to how security have and will treat Heart active support.

 

FFS same old shit as the first time our supporters damaged Etihad, then when it happened again this season and now this, but hey we're the victims.  Always.  Always someone else's fault.

Did you not read FB's post about ACG conduct in Season One before any of the events you mentioned?

 

Of course these things in S2 and S3 have affected our relations with ACG, but read the entire History Book before making your judgements mate.

Edited March 19, 2013 by cadete

[Boffins]

Clearly only willing to respond to lesser forms of criticism to his comments..

[belaguttman]

We would be better off organising a meeting with the club through the re[presentative group, and then a meeting with the club and stadium management to discuss a way to achieve our mutual interests, attending the football and having an incident free fun time. If we can do that then there's no need for security. Having just returned from Europe, I was very pleased to attend Malaga v Athletic Bilbao and apart from someone on the gate checking tickets there was no ground security whatsoever. None. It's possible. There were no broken seats, no flares and no bad behaviour either but lots of active support

[soxrow]

Hey everyone, just an update from my post yesterday.

They were "distressed" to hear that I claimed that they were not trained adequately in conflict resolution, which is their aim.

I do not think I will get anywhere, so could those of you who are members of the supporters group please raise this with the club when meeting with them. I trust this may be a better course of action.

I have replied and mentioned to them how important it is for the club to meet with them and get some dialogue happening, but I get the distinct impression they hope I will go away.

[MrAiDaN66]

If they want you to go away, keep going at them, get under their skin.

Get as many people to write in to them, they are just afraid of the truth

Edited March 19, 2013 by MrAiDaN66

[soxrow]

If they want you to go away, keep going at them, get under their skin.

Get as many people to write in to them, they are just afraid of the truth

Yeah I'm going to give these pricks a bit of a headache!

[MrAiDaN66]

Can you let me know what you did and wrote ? I am going to help out

[belaguttman]

Hey everyone, just an update from my post yesterday.

They were "distressed" to hear that I claimed that they were not trained adequately in conflict resolution, which is their aim.

I do not think I will get anywhere, so could those of you who are members of the supporters group please raise this with the club when meeting with them. I trust this may be a better course of action.

I have replied and mentioned to them how important it is for the club to meet with them and get some dialogue happening, but I get the distinct impression they hope I will go away.

They should really be focused on conflict avoidance, this is an area where they have clearly failed.

[Torn Asunder]

In terms of the problems with security, Gallop admitted on The World Game on SBS last night that he is aware of issues and that he wants to hear them first hand from the supporters. This is a league wide matter.

To take the matter forward constructively, it would be beneficial to be able to list the 3 biggest security issues, keeping it simple, with one short example that illustrates the point for each issue.

I would also be interested to know what supporters think is the single biggest issue security has with fans.

Once a consensus is reached on the top 3 issues, and the security's biggest issue with the supporters (in our eyes) then there can be some discussions on 3 potential solutions / actions.

If this work is done, then there should be something worthwhile that can be presented to the club / league

[MrAiDaN66]

Biggest issue I think as bela said, conflict avoidance

[xXJawsaXx]

I think another big issue is that security aren't trained well enough to deal with active support.

[Torn Asunder]

Biggest issue I think as bela said, conflict avoidance

I'm not really understanding...conflict avoidance sounds more like an outcome or a practice.

Is the actual issue just plain old "conflict" between ACG and the active support?

Once again I'm looking for a specific example.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Torn Asunder

[Torn Asunder]

I think another big issue is that security aren't trained well enough to deal with active support.

Playing devil's advocate with this one....how do we know that they aren't trained well enough based on what they are expected to do under contract?

Is the issue more that the crowd management techniques and practices employed by ACG don't align with the active area expectations?

I'm just looking for some really good wording to capture these issues, backed up by examples

[xXJawsaXx]

Playing devil's advocate with this one....how do we know that they aren't trained well enough based on what they are expected to do under contract?

Is the issue more that the crowd management techniques and practices employed by ACG don't align with the active area expectations?

I'm just looking for some really good wording to capture these issues, backed up by examples

 

Well, I suppose that you are right in saying that their crowd management techniques do not align with active area expectations.

I think that they misinterpret various things such as moshing etc as being malicious acts.

I also understand not standing on seats etc, but too many times have I seen ACG seccos violently push people off seats.

It seems as if they think they need to act in this manner to get their points across whereas the proper thing would be to handle situations in a more diplomatic manner, as opposed to pushing people of seats when they stand on them etc.

[HEARTinator]

Check out the site http://www.fsf.org.uk/about-us/? Set up by the football supporters federation in the UK. You'll see that one of the hot topic items ATM is advocating for standing areas at grounds. Now we already have this concession in the HAL so in some ways the FFA are trying to do the right thing by us. Two things here. First, it may be time to try to organise an umbrella organisation of football supporters for the HAL just like this UK mob have done because the security issue (and other topics) is not isolated to one club. Second, and if we haven't done this yet, need to setup a dialogue directly with ACG. We need to know what their instructions are and they need to get to know the fans. Not saying it's gonna magically work but the less we have a them-and-us atmosphere the better we'll sort out the problems.

Edited March 19, 2013 by HEARTinator

[red and white in that number]

I dont see the need for the ACG staff to be standing so close to the active area.Where ever you look be it front,sides and at every exit point.

[HEARTinator]

Just come back from morning jog and was thinking that an umbrella fan federation for HAL presents an opportunity for Heart fans to show leadership in this area and attract positive publicity. On our own it may be difficult to get up coz of antagonism from larger clubs like SFC and MV but if we combined with RBB we could start something positive and others might come on board. Certainly Gallop is looking for input from fans.

[belaguttman]

Biggest issue I think as bela said, conflict avoidance

I'm not really understanding...conflict avoidance sounds more like an outcome or a practice.

Is the actual issue just plain old "conflict" between ACG and the active support?

Once again I'm looking for a specific example.

Conflict avoidance is dealing with situations before it gets to the point where a confrontation happens. Without knowing any of the specifics of the Ando situation (and I wasn't even at the game) it might mean not removing him in such a public way at a time when the team is playing poorly and people are very heated. The opportunity to do this was before the game started, then they should have just left it until the end and dealt with the issue in another way. It was highly likely (and it happened) that dealing with it the way that they did would escalate the situation in a unpredictable way. The ground staff could put covers over the seats so that they don't get damaged rather than rely on security intrusively intervening when damage does occur to unprotected seats. Another way to avoid conflict would be (unpopular) to limit alcohol to the outside walkways (like UK and Germany) or even outside the stadium (like Spain). Self regulation is another way to avoid conflict, there's no ACG that way and peer pressure s usually very effective.

Edited March 20, 2013 by belaguttman

[jw1739]

Given that we've landed men on the moon and built some amazing buildings and structures around the world in recent years I'm surprised that we do not have the technological and engineering nous to actually design seats that could be removed and replaced easily and quickly and therefore cheaply as the occasion demands?

 

That would at least solve the vandalism/standing on seats issue, because in the 'active support area' the seats would not be there. Just one simple example of solving a problem.

 

Just seems to me none of the parties involved in this are actually looking for easy solutions. FFA/clubs/active supporters/security/police all seem to want confrontation rather than co-existence. FFS sit down in a room and tackle one issue at a time. I did all this stuff when I was involved with management/union stuff on workplace safety etc. Once you all stop shouting at one another you'll find you agree on 99% of everything and the remaining 1% is all you have to deal with.

 

So fed up with the minority of people - whoever they are and whether they be FFA/club/active supporter/security/police - who are spoiling the game I love dearly and the club I belong to.

[Torn Asunder]

People are jumping to solutions without the three key issues being identified or agreed to (although we know that there is conflict arising and tensions b/w supporters and security).

 

Perhaps those in the active area can answer this one....

 

What common activities undertaken by the Active Group result in ACG interaction / enforcement, and which of these activities are not allowed based on the rules of the stadium / FFA.

 

I am guessing standing on seats, moshing, flares, sitting on fences .... anything else?