Nate Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 So according to Gallop, the only cities viable for future expansion are... Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide. I'm no marketing expert but I'm pretty sure a little more research beyond "does it have a million people?" could probably be achieved pretty effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) So according to Gallop, the only cities viable for future expansion are... Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide. I'm no marketing expert but I'm pretty sure a little more research beyond "does it have a million people?" could probably be achieved pretty effectively.Auckland.Don't rule out the possibility of Indonesia, Malaysia, or even Singapore.TBH I agree with him in that there should have been more focus on the big cities than regional areas. It's not only the population issue, but most regional areas would be a lower percentage of soccer fans, with AFL or League being the predominant sport.The only 2 smaller cities that have a soccer fan base are Wollongong and Canberra and they should get a team at some stage. Gold Coast, while it's not a bigger soccer place, also is worth considering because it does have such a large population, but maybe too much competition now. Sunshine Coast & Tasmania maybe worth considering due to having some sort of population and no competition, but the populations aren't that big, soccer isn't that big, and Tasmania really needs to be bringing fans from both sides of the island and that's just not how things work in the real world. Townsville is too rugby focused.I think it's pretty clear at this point in time that one of the next two teams will be for sure in Brisbane, and the other probably in Sydney. But I think a good bid from Canberra or Wollongong is also worth considering, though it doesn't seem like it will be. Auckland could be the dark horse, while there are large markets in South East Asia. Edited December 13, 2014 by Tesla 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 Much as I would like to see the league expand into an East Asia League I'm afraid I can't see that happening. It would surely involve FFA letting go of their franchise system and allowing the franchises to be true "clubs", and letting go of their control of the current league. There are already enough issues to deal with with Wellington and NZ being part of the Oceania Football Federation rather then the Asian Football Confederation. IMO the only candidates for expansion are the inclusion of teams from Canberra, Wollongong, a second Brisbane team and a third Sydney team. I also would like to see some of the other A-League issues addressed at the same time - such as separation of the management of the league from FFA, salary and numbers caps, transfer fees, conflicts when we have international matches and national team camps etc. And of course, the length of the season would have to be increased to allow for the additional matches expansion would bring. It's something that needs very careful and professional management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ae7smith Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I hope that any further expansion only takes place in Australia. For me having Wellington in the league makes no sense at all, and I would prefer that the FFA drops them within the next couple of years to allow for a Canberra or Wollongong team. A second team for brisbane makes sense, but I'd think Perth and Adelaide need a little longer before bringing in second teams. If a third team is introduced into Melbourne, then it has to be regionally specific, such as Eastern or Western melbourne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 I hope that any further expansion only takes place in Australia. For me having Wellington in the league makes no sense at all, and I would prefer that the FFA drops them within the next couple of years to allow for a Canberra or Wollongong team. A second team for brisbane makes sense, but I'd think Perth and Adelaide need a little longer before bringing in second teams. If a third team is introduced into Melbourne, then it has to be regionally specific, such as Eastern or Western melbourne.The more sustainable teams the league can have, the better. If that means teams from other countries, I don't care. They won't take the place of an Aus team, they'd be in addition to an Aus team. They also bring in new TV markets. Why does Wellington need to be dropped for Canberra or Wollongong to come in? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 I hope that any further expansion only takes place in Australia. For me having Wellington in the league makes no sense at all, and I would prefer that the FFA drops them within the next couple of years to allow for a Canberra or Wollongong team. A second team for brisbane makes sense, but I'd think Perth and Adelaide need a little longer before bringing in second teams. If a third team is introduced into Melbourne, then it has to be regionally specific, such as Eastern or Western melbourne. The more sustainable teams the league can have, the better. If that means teams from other countries, I don't care. They won't take the place of an Aus team, they'd be in addition to an Aus team. They also bring in new TV markets. Why does Wellington need to be dropped for Canberra or Wollongong to come in? I'd actually like a team in Auckland with a wollongong team aswell as the next two expansion areas. Auckland has a population of just under 1.5mil and if Wellingoton can sustain a team with what, a population of 500 000 people then Auckland should be as well. Also, that Auckland team currently in the club world championship is doing pretty well atm, why not strike why the iron is hot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhitePride Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 A NZ derby would build up the crowds for Wellington, no doubt about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 For me it's always been two NZ teams or none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 11,000+ at WIN Stadium, cue Wollongong expansion discussion once more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresonlyonebzamora Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Was a pretty decent looking stadium tbf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Was a pretty decent looking stadium tbf WIN stadium is one of my favorite stadiums in Australia. I am not 100% sure but I think they have plans to build the grandstand right the way around which would not not only mean losing the grass hill, it would also mean no ocean view from inside the stadium which would be such a shame. Woolongong have a good history of football and their support base was small but always loyal back in the day. I would love to see a team from the gong playing in the league but not yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Statistics on the populations of urban centres actually show Wollongong as smaller than the so-called Central Coast based on Gosford. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia_by_population#50_largest_urban_centres_by_population Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnno cpfc Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) With regard to a second team in N Z, whilst i have no personal objection it must be considered that the FFA have already had problems with the AFC in having one team from another confederation playing in our league let alone two teams. having watched the game from Woolongong last night i could possibly see a team based there in the not too distant future. Edited January 4, 2015 by johnno cpfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Statistics on the populations of urban centres actually show Wollongong as smaller than the so-called Central Coast based on Gosford. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia_by_population#50_largest_urban_centres_by_population Maybe so, but the 'football popultion' is a lot higher. I am certain a team in Wollongong would get larger crowds than CCM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Statistics on the populations of urban centres actually show Wollongong as smaller than the so-called Central Coast based on Gosford. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia_by_population#50_largest_urban_centres_by_population Maybe so, but the 'football popultion' is a lot higher. I am certain a team in Wollongong would get larger crowds than CCM. You may well be correct. But there are so many factors involved in making a sustainable football club that I would not base A-League expansion on any single one of them. FFA has had its fingers burned on Auckland, Townsville and Gold Coast, and is probably feeling a little uncomfortable now with Central Coast and even Newcastle. If it is considering expansion it needs to have a defined "expansion plan" and not just drop a franchise somewhere because it seemed like a good idea at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 When you look at towns in Texas with 40k populations that get 10k attendance to high school (American) football games, I don't think you can rule anywhere out on population alone. If you can get the community behind a team you don't need a huge population. The main problem with regional teams is that most regional towns aren't soccer towns. An Aussie Rules team would probably do quite well in a lot of Victorian towns, and Rugby in a lot of Queensland towns. But soccer towns don't really exist. TBH Wollongong is pretty much the closest thing to a soccer town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbitm Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Clubs make money in 3 main ways, gate receipts, TV deal and Corporate sponsors. Given Wollongong is such a small place it would add little in TV money and corporate sponsors, they need larger crowds than 11k to justify adding them to the league. The FFA fucked up initially putting a side on the Central coast instead of Wollongong. But it would be a mistake to add Wollongong now given it would add next to nothing for the next TV deal which is probably going to include a commercial FTA channel. As long as we have a salary capped league we will always have a league of makers and takers, but we shouldn't be adding anymore takers. South Sydney and South Melbourne would both be makers IMO. Put them in 2017. Edited January 4, 2015 by Tbitm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Ipswich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbitm Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Ipswich And play where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Ipswich And play where? Ipswich 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Ipswich has been the 2nd largest city in Qld for ever. Gold Coast has been catching but it would still be and is growing. better sports culture than the Gold Coast. Would provide a geographical point of difference to Roar and still be close enough for a fair dinkum Derby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strider Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Still waiting for Hellas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Ipswich has been the 2nd largest city in Qld for ever. Gold Coast has been catching but it would still be and is growing. better sports culture than the Gold Coast. Would provide a geographical point of difference to Roar and still be close enough for a fair dinkum Derby. Er...Ipswich 180,000, Gold Coast 600,000? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biancorosso7 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Was a pretty decent looking stadium tbf WIN stadium is one of my favorite stadiums in Australia. I am not 100% sure but I think they have plans to build the grandstand right the way around which would not not only mean losing the grass hill, it would also mean no ocean view from inside the stadium which would be such a shame. Woolongong have a good history of football and their support base was small but always loyal back in the day. I would love to see a team from the gong playing in the league but not yet. I have read previously that they can never build a grandstand on the "TV" side because of the proximity of the hill to the beach. Essentially, any weight on the hill will collapse it and it would cost a bucket load to engineer it into the sand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agoalie Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Was a pretty decent looking stadium tbf WIN stadium is one of my favorite stadiums in Australia. I am not 100% sure but I think they have plans to build the grandstand right the way around which would not not only mean losing the grass hill, it would also mean no ocean view from inside the stadium which would be such a shame. Woolongong have a good history of football and their support base was small but always loyal back in the day. I would love to see a team from the gong playing in the league but not yet. I have read previously that they can never build a grandstand on the "TV" side because of the proximity of the hill to the beach. Essentially, any weight on the hill will collapse it and it would cost a bucket load to engineer it into the sand. im a qualified civil engineer, i'll design a stand in return for david gallop and damien de behon being sacked 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepdog Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Was a pretty decent looking stadium tbf WIN stadium is one of my favorite stadiums in Australia. I am not 100% sure but I think they have plans to build the grandstand right the way around which would not not only mean losing the grass hill, it would also mean no ocean view from inside the stadium which would be such a shame. Woolongong have a good history of football and their support base was small but always loyal back in the day. I would love to see a team from the gong playing in the league but not yet. I have read previously that they can never build a grandstand on the "TV" side because of the proximity of the hill to the beach. Essentially, any weight on the hill will collapse it and it would cost a bucket load to engineer it into the sand. im a qualified civil engineer, i'll design a stand in return for david gallop and damien de behon being sacked Quick question for you then. As a bricklayer, I was told that sand is good to build on due to it being so dense and hardly able to move. Is that true? Was a good ten years since I did that apprenticeship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agoalie Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Was a pretty decent looking stadium tbf WIN stadium is one of my favorite stadiums in Australia. I am not 100% sure but I think they have plans to build the grandstand right the way around which would not not only mean losing the grass hill, it would also mean no ocean view from inside the stadium which would be such a shame. Woolongong have a good history of football and their support base was small but always loyal back in the day. I would love to see a team from the gong playing in the league but not yet. I have read previously that they can never build a grandstand on the "TV" side because of the proximity of the hill to the beach. Essentially, any weight on the hill will collapse it and it would cost a bucket load to engineer it into the sand. im a qualified civil engineer, i'll design a stand in return for david gallop and damien de behon being sacked Quick question for you then. As a bricklayer, I was told that sand is good to build on due to it being so dense and hardly able to move. Is that true? Was a good ten years since I did that apprenticeship. most cases, yes, if it was for heavy load bearing then it wouldn't be wise to build on it without reinforcement but otherwise it is the best soil to build on. Sand is quite stable as well as having excellent drainage properties where as clay is a bitch to build on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Was a pretty decent looking stadium tbfWIN stadium is one of my favorite stadiums in Australia. I am not 100% sure but I think they have plans to build the grandstand right the way around which would not not only mean losing the grass hill, it would also mean no ocean view from inside the stadium which would be such a shame. Woolongong have a good history of football and their support base was small but always loyal back in the day. I would love to see a team from the gong playing in the league but not yet. I have read previously that they can never build a grandstand on the "TV" side because of the proximity of the hill to the beach. Essentially, any weight on the hill will collapse it and it would cost a bucket load to engineer it into the sand. im a qualified civil engineer, i'll design a stand in return for david gallop and damien de behon being sackedQuick question for you then. As a bricklayer, I was told that sand is good to build on due to it being so dense and hardly able to move. Is that true? Was a good ten years since I did that apprenticeship. most cases, yes, if it was for heavy load bearing then it wouldn't be wise to build on it without reinforcement but otherwise it is the best soil to build on. Sand is quite stable as well as having excellent drainage properties where as clay is a bitch to build on. Geotechnical engineer. Depends. How did the sand get there? What is its relative density? The 38 storey high rise I sit in right now is almost certainly founded in sand exclusively.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Ipswich has been the 2nd largest city in Qld for ever. Gold Coast has been catching but it would still be and is growing. better sports culture than the Gold Coast. Would provide a geographical point of difference to Roar and still be close enough for a fair dinkum Derby. Er...Ipswich 180,000, Gold Coast 600,000? Well despite having lived in both places for years I clearly don't know my facts! Anyway as GCU showed bloody hard to get a sporting crowd on the coast. In regards to Ipswich truth is its suburban sprawl from Brisbane to the other side of Ipswich. A lot of People live in that area and its growing fast, regardless of the local government boundaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbitm Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) Ipswich And play where? Ipswich At what stadium is more what i meant. I think its a good spot to go, but they won't have a stadium in time for 2017 Edited January 6, 2015 by Tbitm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD. Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 http://m.austadiums.com/stadium_details.php?id=164could they upgrade this? Does an aleague stadium need to have a minimum capacity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Expansion might be the last thing on the mind of FFA at the moment. Newcastle in turmoil once again. CEO and Chairman quit. http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2804417/middleby-baartz-quit-the-jets/?cs=305 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Expansion might be the last thing on the mind of FFA at the moment. Newcastle in turmoil once again. CEO and Chairman quit. http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2804417/middleby-baartz-quit-the-jets/?cs=305 Wouldn't necessarily call it turmoil, the Jets faithful have been longing for this day for quite some time now. All they need are new owners and they'll be fine, it's phenomenal they're still able to attract 10k attendance average with the performances they've dished out over the past 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 A-league Clubs need academies first surely ? We need to improve the quality of what we've already got Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Expansion might be the last thing on the mind of FFA at the moment. Newcastle in turmoil once again. CEO and Chairman quit. http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2804417/middleby-baartz-quit-the-jets/?cs=305 Wouldn't necessarily call it turmoil, the Jets faithful have been longing for this day for quite some time now. All they need are new owners and they'll be fine, it's phenomenal they're still able to attract 10k attendance average with the performances they've dished out over the past 5 years. Now, where did I hear that before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Expansion might be the last thing on the mind of FFA at the moment. Newcastle in turmoil once again. CEO and Chairman quit. http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2804417/middleby-baartz-quit-the-jets/?cs=305Wouldn't necessarily call it turmoil, the Jets faithful have been longing for this day for quite some time now. All they need are new owners and they'll be fine, it's phenomenal they're still able to attract 10k attendance average with the performances they've dished out over the past 5 years. New owners who'll charge normal prices for tickets/memberships? Watch the 10k attendances plumet without cheap tickets. Edited January 8, 2015 by Tesla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Now, where did I hear that before? Hehehe, shhhhh New owners who'll charge normal prices for tickets/memberships? Watch the 10k attendances plumet without cheap tickets. Maybe, but these supporters are obviously quite faithful to still turn up despite the crap served up and with improved performances the club might be able to justify charging the regular price for tickets and memberships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Was a pretty decent looking stadium tbf WIN stadium is one of my favorite stadiums in Australia. I am not 100% sure but I think they have plans to build the grandstand right the way around which would not not only mean losing the grass hill, it would also mean no ocean view from inside the stadium which would be such a shame. Woolongong have a good history of football and their support base was small but always loyal back in the day. I would love to see a team from the gong playing in the league but not yet. Bloody good stadium, shame it's in the gong. Saw st George play wests there. Great atmosphere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Was a pretty decent looking stadium tbf WIN stadium is one of my favorite stadiums in Australia. I am not 100% sure but I think they have plans to build the grandstand right the way around which would not not only mean losing the grass hill, it would also mean no ocean view from inside the stadium which would be such a shame. Woolongong have a good history of football and their support base was small but always loyal back in the day. I would love to see a team from the gong playing in the league but not yet. Bloody good stadium, shame it's in the gong. Saw st George play wests there. Great atmosphere St George games are always much better down there than at Jubilee... Last season when I went to see Manly beat the Saints at Jubilee the fans starting walking out on mass with 15 minutes to play. NOTE: Before someone mentions it I obv realise that a lot of Manly fans can be pretty fickle as well FWIW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Was a pretty decent looking stadium tbf WIN stadium is one of my favorite stadiums in Australia. I am not 100% sure but I think they have plans to build the grandstand right the way around which would not not only mean losing the grass hill, it would also mean no ocean view from inside the stadium which would be such a shame. Woolongong have a good history of football and their support base was small but always loyal back in the day. I would love to see a team from the gong playing in the league but not yet. Bloody good stadium, shame it's in the gong. Saw st George play wests there. Great atmosphere St George games are always much better down there than at Jubilee... Last season when I went to see Manly beat the Saints at Jubilee the fans starting walking out on mass with 15 minutes to play. NOTE: Before someone mentions it I obv realise that a lot of Manly fans can be pretty fickle as well FWIW. Thats Rugby League fans in general in my experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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