Domestic Politics

[ecguymer]

16 hours ago, jw1739 said:

FMD, after 6 years of government being hijacked by LGBTIQ+ we now have the fucking republic issue again.

I like the monarchy; they're almost certainly cheaper than the alternatives, they don't fuck shit up, and they don't come with the incessant political campaigning that would come with most republic models......ok, maybe like is a bit strong a word......

[thisphantomfortress]

21 hours ago, jw1739 said:

FMD, after 6 years of government being hijacked by LGBTIQ+ we now have the fucking republic issue again.

It's only an issue because we didn't have the collective balls to cut free of them in '99. 

[ecguymer]

5 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

It's only an issue because we didn't have the collective balls to cut free of them in '99. 

...that was mostly because Howard proposed a model where parliament picked the president, the president had less powers than the governor-general currently has, and can be dismissed by the PM apparently at will.....He didn't want the republic so he came up with a model that even die-hard republicans would thing twice about voting for it

[bt50]

Ive said it before, but i seriously dont get the republican movement.

Wont achieve/change a thing.

I'm not for it or against it, i just dont see the point.

Edited December 19, 2016 by bt50

[Tesla]

1 hour ago, bt50 said:

Ive said it before, but i seriously dont get the republican movement.

Wont achieve/change a thing.

I'm not for it or against it, i just dont see the point.

I think its more a symbolic change than anything, people dont like the idea of the monarchy rather than the fuck all real life effects of it.

I have to say watching The Crown on Netflix is some solid pro-monarchy propaganda, but I'm still voting for a republic if a referendum ever happens again (but I dont think it's a particularly urgent issue in the grand scheme of things). I'm more for getting a new flag than becoming a republic tbh, our flag is really bad.

FWIW, I dont see a republic happening any time soon, William & Catherine saved it.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Tesla

[Tesla]

Ca n you imagine if/when Charles becomes King though.

All the Greeks will claim they founded the Monarchy, The Commonwealth, Britain, and of course Australia.

TBH that's as good a reason as any to become a republic.

[bt50]

2 hours ago, Tesla said:

I think its more a symbolic change than anything

I agree with this, but geez surely as Australians theres a lot more important things to worry about right now ie getting the economy at least headed in the right direction and getting rid of this chronic overspending problem we've grown into.

[NewConvert]

On 18/12/2016 at 10:54 AM, jw1739 said:

FMD, after 6 years of government being hijacked by LGBTIQ+ we now have the fucking republic issue again.

Diversionary tactic. Look over there!

[Shahanga]

7 hours ago, ecguymer said:

...that was mostly because Howard proposed a model where parliament picked the president, the president had less powers than the governor-general currently has, and can be dismissed by the PM apparently at will.....He didn't want the republic so he came up with a model that even die-hard republicans would thing twice about voting for it

Howard we didn't propose that model. Actually we had a constitutional convention with elected representatives and that is the model those elected representatives choose.

when it became clear that Aussies weren't pro monarchy but rather anti change, it was an easy thing to run a "wrong model" campaign. I'm sure the monarchists would have done that regardless of the model.

PS the convention was dominated by the representatives of The Australian Republican Movement who had a clear position of minimal change. Their leader was a high profile merchant banker from Sydney who'd made a shit load on early ISP ozemail. Now What was his name again?

Edited December 19, 2016 by Shahanga
ARM update

[jw1739]

12 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Howard we didn't propose that model. Actually we had a constitutional convention with elected representatives and that is the model those elected representatives choose.

when it became clear that Aussies weren't pro monarchy but rather anti change, it was an easy thing to run a "wrong model" campaign. I'm sure the monarchists would have done that regardless of the model.

PS the convention was dominated by the representatives of The Australian Republican Movement who had a clear position of minimal change. Their leader was a high profile merchant banker from Sydney who'd made a shit load on early ISP ozemail. Now What was his name again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Constitutional_Convention_1998

It's not surprising that by and large we are "anti-change." Despite all the things that we moan about the reality is that collectively we have built and live in a great country. Change always involves a step into the unknown, so unless you are absolutely sure of a benefit then reluctance to take that step is completely understandable.

[cadete]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Constitutional_Convention_1998

It's not surprising that by and large we are "anti-change." Despite all the things that we moan about the reality is that collectively we have built and live in a great country. Change always involves a step into the unknown, so unless you are absolutely sure of a benefit then reluctance to take that step is completely understandable.

Sometimes I have to chuckle at some of the Wikipedia links put up in here...

And I FWIW my opinion on the Republic Referendum is too long and boring to post.

Edited December 20, 2016 by cadete

[Tesla]

In all honesty, I'm not even trolling for once, but at what point does the regular person say enough is enough? I'm assuming at least a few of the people in here fall into the category of regular people, so tell me. Every day the government comes put with some new nanny state crap, and the vast majority of people don't care. Fair enough, people have bigger things to worry about in their day to day lives, I get it. But surely there is a line? For example, when you're not allowed to leave your house apart from going to work, and you can only drive a maximum of 20km/h on your way to work, and when you get home you can either watch the government TV channel or access the 5 government approved websites on your computer, and you can't even have some paracetamol to cure your headache from your long day without a prescription and signing a stat dec that you do in fact have a headache, and when the weekend finally comes you can enjoy 1 glass of soft drink with a 150% sugar tax on it at the soft drink bar (alcohol was made illegal a long time ago) after giving your ID and undergoing a piss test for sugar levels to make sure you haven't had any already this week. Would that have finally crossed the line, or will it still not bother you? I really reckon it's the second one from what I can see. As long as the terrorists, codeine junkies and $100 notes don't kill you its all good, right?  

Edited December 20, 2016 by Tesla

[NewConvert]

6 hours ago, Tesla said:

In all honesty, I'm not even trolling for once, but at what point does the regular person say enough is enough? I'm assuming at least a few of the people in here fall into the category of regular people, so tell me. Every day the government comes put with some new nanny state crap, and the vast majority of people don't care. Fair enough, people have bigger things to worry about in their day to day lives, I get it. But surely there is a line? For example, when you're not allowed to leave your house apart from going to work, and you can only drive a maximum of 20km/h on your way to work, and when you get home you can either watch the government TV channel or access the 5 government approved websites on your computer, and you can't even have some paracetamol to cure your headache from your long day without a prescription and signing a stat dec that you do in fact have a headache, and when the weekend finally comes you can enjoy 1 glass of soft drink with a 150% sugar tax on it at the soft drink bar (alcohol was made illegal a long time ago) after giving your ID and undergoing a piss test for sugar levels to make sure you haven't had any already this week. Would that have finally crossed the line, or will it still not bother you? I really reckon it's the second one from what I can see. As long as the terrorists, codeine junkies and $100 notes don't kill you its all good, right?  

You mean like the Taliban on steroids? Yeah, this codeine thing pisses me off, and as you know I am all for legalising drugs. I am not sure whether you have friends in the medical/nursing profession but they are bad when it comes to things like drugs and alcohol. BUT the one that made me explode was a few weeks ago when the state government announced a new education initiative where children will be taught to be weary of people, specially relatives, giving them compliments because they could be groomed for sex. FMD - trust no one.

[GreenSeater]

Fear makes a populace easier to control. The media pushes the agenda of the world being an awful, terrifying place and the government acts to help "keep you safe".

It is also pretty clear that personal responsibility and common sense are a thing of the past. Anything bad happens to you it isn't your fault, it's the government's fault for not protecting you.

The government has one job. Represent the will of the people and help keep the country running. They are not your babysitter.

[malloy]

18 hours ago, Tesla said:

In all honesty, I'm not even trolling for once, but at what point does the regular person say enough is enough? I'm assuming at least a few of the people in here fall into the category of regular people, so tell me. Every day the government comes put with some new nanny state crap, and the vast majority of people don't care. Fair enough, people have bigger things to worry about in their day to day lives, I get it. But surely there is a line? For example, when you're not allowed to leave your house apart from going to work, and you can only drive a maximum of 20km/h on your way to work, and when you get home you can either watch the government TV channel or access the 5 government approved websites on your computer, and you can't even have some paracetamol to cure your headache from your long day without a prescription and signing a stat dec that you do in fact have a headache, and when the weekend finally comes you can enjoy 1 glass of soft drink with a 150% sugar tax on it at the soft drink bar (alcohol was made illegal a long time ago) after giving your ID and undergoing a piss test for sugar levels to make sure you haven't had any already this week. Would that have finally crossed the line, or will it still not bother you? I really reckon it's the second one from what I can see. As long as the terrorists, codeine junkies and $100 notes don't kill you its all good, right?  

I dunno, I would quite enjoy knocking down peoples doors and dragging them off to concentration camps because they were deemed a threat to our autocratic government. 

[thisphantomfortress]

Good to see both sides of the spectrum in this forum agreeing on this one. The codeine thing is a joke, but like @GreenSeater mentions education policy scares me most. We have radical Marxists setting policy (see safe schools) and the kids are being taught to act due to fear not critical analysis. I'm by no means an education expert and I know as well as anyone kids are far more likely to be molested by a relative than anyone else, but teaching fear is fucking insane.

ill stop before my post is more suitable for stay woke than here.

[jw1739]

The Melbourne Metro Rail Tunnel project - 9 years to build? Major disruptions? No passenger interchange at South Yarra is madness - the new line will be just 100m from the present SY station - hasn't the government looked at other railways in the world e.g. the London Underground where it's quite common for passengers to use pedestrian tunnels and escalators to get from one line to another?

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

The Melbourne Metro Rail Tunnel project - 9 years to build? Major disruptions? No passenger interchange at South Yarra is madness - the new line will be just 100m from the present SY station - hasn't the government looked at other railways in the world e.g. the London Underground where it's quite common for passengers to use pedestrian tunnels and escalators to get from one line to another?

I thought that the issue was that they wanted a rail platform rather than an expanded station where people have to walk 100m. However I do agree that in Melbourne we do not make enough use of tunnels and overpasses connecting train stations to buses or taxi ramps. Mind you every time an inner city development is proposed you get the immediate response of demolishing our heritage, residents have not been consulted, etc.

[Tesla]

5 hours ago, NewConvert said:

I thought that the issue was that they wanted a rail platform rather than an expanded station where people have to walk 100m. However I do agree that in Melbourne we do not make enough use of tunnels and overpasses connecting train stations to buses or taxi ramps. Mind you every time an inner city development is proposed you get the immediate response of demolishing our heritage, residents have not been consulted, etc.

My understanding was that the Andrews government was building all the new stations with larger platforms to potentially allow longer trains in the future, and because of that it wasnt viable to connect to South Yarra.

TBH if it isn't viable then I'm fine with the decision, but if the reason it isn't viable is because of a questionable choice over longer platforms then I dunno..

[hedaik]

The PT guru sums it up here

http://www.danielbowen.com/2015/10/23/south-yarra-conundrum/

[cadete]

13 hours ago, hedaik said:

The PT guru sums it up here

http://www.danielbowen.com/2015/10/23/south-yarra-conundrum/

Having meet him in a Work Context a fair while back... I would call him more a PT Lobbyist than a Guru.

[hedaik]

9 hours ago, cadete said:

Having meet him in a Work Context a fair while back... I would call him more a PT Lobbyist than a Guru.

Can't he be both? Im not aware of anybody else that is across PT matters as much as he is. 

[cadete]

36 minutes ago, hedaik said:

Can't he be both? Im not aware of anybody else that is across PT matters as much as he is. 

He is informed and intelligent but obviously his opinion is biased to at least some extent due to having been leader of a Pro PT Lobby Group for ten years.

[Tesla]

This centrelink stuff is pretty funny.

Firstly because the issue at hand has become so overblown. But secondly because I doubt either party wants this much attention on centrelink and the welfare system. Could turn into a far bigger shit storm. Will be pretty entertaining if so. 

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, Tesla said:

This centrelink stuff is pretty funny.

Firstly because the issue at hand has become so overblown. But secondly because I doubt either party wants this much attention on centrelink and the welfare system. Could turn into a far bigger shit storm. Will be pretty entertaining if so. 

It's funny (not sure whether you mean that literally?) until you have to deal with them. I have to, as Power of Attorney for someone who is in an aged care facility. Their performance is outrageously bad - telephone calls just not answered, letters not acknowledged or replied to, no dates on correspondence, quarterly means-testing reviews just not carried out, etc. etc. Of course the "welfare system" (how I hate that word "system") cannot work because there are just too many on it. Just get the fucking bludgers off it and perhaps the people who have paid tax all their lives could actually get the service that they deserve.

[Tesla]

11 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

It's funny (not sure whether you mean that literally?) until you have to deal with them. I have to, as Power of Attorney for someone who is in an aged care facility. Their performance is outrageously bad - telephone calls just not answered, letters not acknowledged or replied to, no dates on correspondence, quarterly means-testing reviews just not carried out, etc. etc. Of course the "welfare system" (how I hate that word "system") cannot work because there are just too many on it. Just get the fucking bludgers off it and perhaps the people who have paid tax all their lives could actually get the service that they deserve.

I mean it's all broken. I doubt the biggest drain of welfare resources is bludgers, the biggest waste is the private companies they contract because seemingly governments in this country don't know how to successfully privatise anything. Everything I've come across regarding it sounds dodgy AF. The age had a bit of an article on it the other day.

Fwiw, the difficulty calling them etc is by design, there was an article on that today with an insider confirming it. It's a way to stop people getting payments. I'm all for minimising welfare but if people are eligible then they should be able to access it, rather than relying on dirty tricks like that. 

Every day it seems the media is digging deeper and every day it all sounds worse and worse.

 I'd like to know how many bludgers exist, I doubt it's many despite popular belief. Maybe that's the next piece of info the media will dig up. 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Tesla

[Tesla]

Again, as much as I'm for minimising welfare, I'd rather the money go to people eligible than paying to employ people barely off the centrelink line themselves into the "employment industry" (the fact a large industry exists in this area speaks volumes) and/or lining the pockets of the dodgy multinational companies involved who are basically scamming the government. 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Tesla

[cadete]

Centrelink fucken rocked back in my day...

As soon as I quit a job/moved elsewhere in my very early 20s would I collect the first two pays before I had to come in to talk about job hunting.

You just had to write a couple of websites as your jobs you had applied for a you were set for a big weekend.

[Tesla]

Why the fuck does a unviable and highly polluting multinational company get $100m in government subsidies a year when we're in an era where two big issues are multinational companies paying their taxes and governments implementing economic crippling environmentalist measures. It's fucking retarded, and another example of backwards bumpkin villages holding everyone else to ransom because they get a larger amount of political representation per capita. 

This is worse than paying billions of dollars to not drive Mustangs on freeways we paid billions of dollars to not build. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by Tesla

[NewConvert]

8 hours ago, Tesla said:

Why the fuck does a unviable and highly polluting multinational company get $100m in government subsidies a year when we're in an era where two big issues are multinational companies paying their taxes and governments implementing economic crippling environmentalist measures. It's fucking retarded, and another example of backwards bumpkin villages holding everyone else to ransom because they get a larger amount of political representation per capita. 

This is worse than paying billions of dollars to not drive Mustangs on freeways we paid billions of dollars to not build. 

This.

And what is worse is that no one comes up with a plan b so that no matter who governs, they keep running back to do the same old shit. This is as retarded as the wool subsidies (started by Whitlam) to the farmers, and when they had to end otherwise they would have dragged the whole country down with it, they screamed the house down. And finally, these are Liberal/National seats, they don't vote ALP - WTF????

[cadete]

BTW anyone else read how the Victorian Greens want to make begging legal... I cant see how anyone who has ever sat down and had a drink at The Gimp would agree with such a change in law when the same Professional Beggars try to take your money for the 100th time.

The thing is under the current law basically nobody gets picked up for Begging except Aggressive Nuisance Beggars, or Professional Beggars and even then these are only sent to Court every few months for a slap on the wrist because the Courts dont have the time to deal with such cases as they happen.  

[bt50]

9 minutes ago, cadete said:

BTW anyone else read how the Victorian Greens want to make begging legal... I cant see how anyone who has ever sat down and had a drink at The Gimp would agree with such a change in law when the same Professional Beggars try to take your money for the 100th time.

The thing is under the current law basically nobody gets picked up for Begging except Aggressive Nuisance Beggars, or Professional Beggars and even then these are only sent to Court every few months for a slap on the wrist because the Courts dont have the time to deal with such cases as they happen.  

It really is beggars belief.

[Tesla]

13 hours ago, cadete said:

BTW anyone else read how the Victorian Greens want to make begging legal... I cant see how anyone who has ever sat down and had a drink at The Gimp would agree with such a change in law when the same Professional Beggars try to take your money for the 100th time.

The thing is under the current law basically nobody gets picked up for Begging except Aggressive Nuisance Beggars, or Professional Beggars and even then these are only sent to Court every few months for a slap on the wrist because the Courts dont have the time to deal with such cases as they happen.  

Some of these professional beggars are making 6 figures a year tax free. It's actually pretty funny, but yeah they don't really need any help to make their begging easier.

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Tesla

[hedaik]

Would have thought this forum would have a little bit more sympathy for heart breaking stories such as Kirstys

[Tesla]

I just find this whole thing so hilarious. It's pretty obvious the huge spike in hobos is because people have gotten wind of the large sums in money to be made. It's becoming a bit of a piss take, drove by a few having sent up a huge ass tent earlier today. Probably cost a few grand for a tent like that, decent business investment though I suppose.

I dont really have a problem with the entrepreneurial on display by all these 'homeless' people, but then again I'm also not a mug to hand my money over to them. But they should have to pay income tax, and GST, and rent for the sidewalk they occupy. Aside from that, I wish them luck on their begging business.

PS it's only a matter of time before there are fights/murders over better begging locations. They probably can make $250k a year at a prime spot, and only $100k in a lesser spot. That's a huge difference, plenty of people who would murder for less.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Tesla

[GreenSeater]

2 hours ago, Tesla said:

I just find this whole thing so hilarious. It's pretty obvious the huge spike in hobos is because people have gotten wind of the large sums in money to be made. It's becoming a bit of a piss take, drove by a few having sent up a huge ass tent earlier today. Probably cost a few grand for a tent like that, decent business investment though I suppose.

I dont really have a problem with the entrepreneurial on display by all these 'homeless' people, but then again I'm also not a mug to hand my money over to them. But they should have to pay income tax, and GST, and rent for the sidewalk they occupy. Aside from that, I wish them luck on their begging business.

PS it's only a matter of time before there are fights/murders over better begging locations. They probably can make $250k a year at a prime spot, and only $100k in a lesser spot. That's a huge difference, plenty of people who would murder for less.

Spot on. Too many people taking advantage of the generosity of others to accomodate their lifestyle of doing nothing. I really do feel sorry for the genuinely homeless and less fortunate getting a bad name from these pricks.

[thisphantomfortress]

... and with one tweet david leyonhjelm has effectively killed his party in Victoria.

[GreenSeater]

1 hour ago, thisphantomfortress said:

... and with one tweet david leyonhjelm has effectively killed his party in Victoria.

Bet he's regretting not hiring a media manager at the moment...

[Tesla]

1 hour ago, thisphantomfortress said:

... and with one tweet david leyonhjelm has effectively killed his party in Victoria.

Stop trying to bait me.  

 

[HeartFc]

Hash tag sooooooooo glad invasion day is over. I felt physically sick all day and I'm so ashamed of my ancestors (mine were actually in Poland eating cabbage but they were white soooooooo...) they're still technically literally murders, racists and probably raped 150 million aboriginal babies. Just like white people killed 545 million american indians, 330 million muslim Brazilians, 77 trillion penguins and wiped out the Na'vi.

#invasionday2017

#changethedate

#givetheirlandback (but I'm not actually gonna move anywhere coz I like the culture and I finally got a rental in an area with a great vegetarian joint around the corner that uses recycled napkins and the waiters can speak nepalese)

#igaveanabosomechangeoncesolikeitotallylikekindalikegavebacktothecommunityandstuff