Domestic Politics

[Embee]

Personally, I'd like to know what @Fingman's opinion on this whole matter is

[cadete]

27 minutes ago, Tesla said:

Meh, their own government doesn't have enough respect for the victims' families to let them sue the Saudi government, a lack of respect from randoms on the internet hardly means anything in comparison.

I still dont think this warrants the crappy joke pics... if they were about the death of one Pansexual it be a different story.

Edited September 13, 2016 by cadete

[thisphantomfortress]

7 minutes ago, Embee said:

Personally, I'd like to know what @Fingman's opinion on this whole matter is

I think our good friend may actually be in inspiration for the initial post. His main hobby, other than introducing tassie to flares, is passionate pedalling of 9/11 conspiracies.

[Tesla]

3 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

I think our good friend may actually be in inspiration for the initial post. His main hobby, other than introducing tassie to flares, is passionate pedalling of 9/11 conspiracies.

I wonder how mad these people are that in the end it turns out it was a conspiracy of sorts, but not one these people were pedalling?

[thisphantomfortress]

1 minute ago, Tesla said:

I wonder how mad these people are that in the end it turns out it was a conspiracy of sorts, but not one these people were pedalling?

Nah they'll just twist it to suit their own agenda.

Speaking of conspiracies and getting way off topic I am 100% sold on the Finland doesn't exist conspiracy.

[Tesla]

Just now, thisphantomfortress said:

Nah they'll just twist it to suit their own agenda.

Speaking of conspiracies and getting way off topic I am 100% sold on the Finland doesn't exist conspiracy.

Never heard this one before, just googled it now.

What the actual fuck am I reading?

FWIW, I've been to Finland, so can confirm it's existence. 

[thisphantomfortress]

Just now, Tesla said:

Never heard this one before, just googled it now.

What the actual fuck am I reading?

FWIW, I've been to Finland, so can confirm it's existence. 

No you haven't you've been to Sweeden.

[Tesla]

2 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

No you haven't you've been to Sweeden.

My life is a lie.

[thisphantomfortress]

Just now, Tesla said:

My life is a lie.

It all makes so much sense, why else would the Japanese buy Nokia products and how else could Finland score so well on so many metrics.

[Tesla]

3 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

It all makes so much sense, why else would the Japanese buy Nokia products and how else could Finland score so well on so many metrics.

Not only that, but why does a Finish company have a Japanese name,  no-ki-a, fits with Japanese alphabet. And seriously, Finish electronics? Clearly nokia is actually Japanese.

It all makes sense now.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Tesla

[hedaik]

Sounds like the Stevie Wonder conspiracy

[cadete]

48 minutes ago, Tesla said:

Never heard this one before, just googled it now.

What the actual fuck am I reading?

FWIW, I've been to Finland, so can confirm it's existence. 

For Harness Racing?

1 hour ago, thisphantomfortress said:

I think our good friend may actually be in inspiration for the initial post. His main hobby, other than introducing tassie to flares, is passionate pedalling of 9/11 conspiracies.

I saw that but it was actually a Picture I saw elsewhere... I think making fun of 9/11 is actually perhaps not dumber but in worse taste than someone who actually believes it was a conspiracy FWIW.

[Tesla]

28 minutes ago, cadete said:

For Harness Racing?

I saw some dog sleds, close enough?

Actually why isn't that a form of racing over there? Would be great.

[thisphantomfortress]

20 minutes ago, Tesla said:

I saw some dog sleds, close enough?

Actually why isn't that a form of racing over there? Would be great.

It's hard to race dogs on water I guess.

[Tesla]

Just now, thisphantomfortress said:

It's hard to race dogs on water I guess.

FWIW, I honestly could have been anywhere in the Arctic. There was a distinct lack of signs or anything else notable, and it's basically dark all day and just snow everywhere. Zero distinguishing features. Even the airport was just a warehouse with nothing to distinguish it by.

[Tesla]

Back on topic, this actually seems a pretty good compromise overall TBH: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/baby-bonus-cut-under-significant-budget-compromise-between-coalition-and-labor-20160912-grewy6.html

Rural cunts losing shit they dont deserve 

Middle class welfare cuts  

Family welfare cuts  

Cuts to BS clean energy shit

Legit welfare not cut so i dont have to worry about being murdered over $20  (seriously I'm all for cutting welfare but a lot more shit is in line for cutting before this).

Need more GP funding cunts as well, dont mind if the money is redirected back into other areas of health care, just think GP funding is too high. FWIW, I like the Coalition's policy, co-payment by market forces basically.

 

Also can the left please fuck off opposing the gay marriage plebiscite based on cost. Since when the fuck does the left care about useless government spending? Be fucking real, you oppose it because you're collectivist fuckwits against freedom of speech and dont want to have a debate (fwiw I am probably more against the plebiscite than for, because it's fairly pointless and therefore a waste of money, but I am always against wastes of government money and not just on this one occasion. But I also recognise that if it finally gets the job done and I dont have to hear about gay marriage anymore then it's okay.).

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by Tesla

[Chris p]

1 hour ago, cadete said:

For Harness Racing?

I saw that but it was actually a Picture I saw elsewhere... I think making fun of 9/11 is actually perhaps not dumber but in worse taste than someone who actually believes it was a conspiracy FWIW.

Mainstream media could never be wrong could they ? 

[thisphantomfortress]

15 minutes ago, Chris p said:

Mainstream media could never be wrong could they ? 

It is a scientifically proven fact that jet fuel can not melt steel beams.

[Chris p]

6 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

It is a scientifically proven fact that jet fuel can not melt steel beams.

 

Kochie and Tracy grimshaw know best 

[hedaik]

15 hours ago, Chris p said:

Mainstream media could never be wrong could they ? 

Found the person who voted for Malcolm Roberts

[cadete]

This plebiscite thing is the smartest political tactic that Abbott will ever pull and yet he's not there to see it through... I actually reckon he got the idea from his Old Mentor in Howard its that shrewd and calculated.

He gets to have Same Sex Marriage debated and scrutinised and stand a much bigger chance of not getting up like he wants and then when the ALP oppose it they have to explain to the less intelligent members of the electorate why they opposing it... and this explanation has to be given by an Opposition Leader who is hardly a great public speaker.

So a lot of PPL (Who are not the brightest) are just going to end up saying "The ALP just wants the achievement of bringing in the Law themselves". Whilst every time the ALP try to attack the plebiscite the Libs can fall back on their argument of wanting the Australian PPL and not hated Politicians to make the decision. 

If only he could of used such tact with something I actually agreed with him on... and to prevent his own downfall as PM.

Edited September 13, 2016 by cadete

[GreenSeater]

22 minutes ago, cadete said:

This plebiscite thing is the smartest political tactic that Abbott will ever pull and yet he's not there to see it through... I actually reckon he got the idea from his Old Mentor in Howard its that shrewd and calculated.

He gets to have Same Sex Marriage debated and scrutinised and stand a much bigger chance of not getting up like he wants and then when the ALP oppose it they have to explain to the less intelligent members of the electorate why they opposing it... and this explanation has to be given by an Opposition Leader who is hardly a great public speaker.

So a lot of PPL (Who are not the brightest) are just going to end up saying "The ALP just wants the achievement of bringing in the Law themselves". Whilst every time the ALP try to attack the plebiscite the Libs can fall back on their argument of wanting the Australian PPL and not hated Politicians to make the decision. 

If only he could of used such tact with something I actually agreed with him on... and to prevent his own downfall as PM.

Agree with this, the only downfall I can see happening is if the result happens to be massively in favour of same-sex marriage, like over 75-80% (which fwiw I don't think it will be) because then people will probably see it as a waste of money for something quite clearly wanted nationwide.

[bt50]

26 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

Agree with this, the only downfall I can see happening is if the result happens to be massively in favour of same-sex marriage, like over 75-80% (which fwiw I don't think it will be) because then people will probably see it as a waste of money for something quite clearly wanted nationwide.

Perhaps, but a plebiscite has to be done in the name of democracy given the magnitude of the issue. This crap the lefties are sprouting about the plebiscite being a bad thing is not only a load of shit, its insulting to the Australian public. Have a vote, then we can be done with the issue for good.

[jw1739]

42 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

Agree with this, the only downfall I can see happening is if the result happens to be massively in favour of same-sex marriage, like over 75-80% (which fwiw I don't think it will be) because then people will probably see it as a waste of money for something quite clearly wanted nationwide.

Wanting something and agreeing to it are not the same thing.

[thisphantomfortress]

I'm just amazed with the whole plebicite that Shorten is getting portrayed by the left as a hero for his "if one child commits suicide" BS.

That isn't heroic rhetoric, thats oppression of free speech and meaningful debate.

I am 100% for gay marriage, but I have learnt a hell of a lot about repect becuase of this debate. The total lack of respect for opposing views from the left has made me really worry about the future of freedom of speech in this country. People can't express an opinion without being labled a bigot.

 

Except BigoT50

[bt50]

21 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

I'm just amazed with the whole plebicite that Shorten is getting portrayed by the left as a hero for his "if one child commits suicide" BS.

That isn't heroic rhetoric, thats oppression of free speech and meaningful debate.

I am 100% for gay marriage, but I have learnt a hell of a lot about repect becuase of this debate. The total lack of respect for opposing views from the left has made me really worry about the future of freedom of speech in this country. People can't express an opinion without being labled a bigot.

 

Except BigoT50

Don't you oppress me

[Tesla]

1 hour ago, bt50 said:

Perhaps, but a plebiscite has to be done in the name of democracy given the magnitude of the issue. This crap the lefties are sprouting about the plebiscite being a bad thing is not only a load of shit, its insulting to the Australian public. Have a vote, then we can be done with the issue for good.

Don't really agree TBH, we haven't had plebiscites on plenty of other major things. It's just a political move as Cad explains.

Not too fussed either way though as I said above, if it puts an end to the whole thing then it's better than nothing.

I agree with @thisphantomfortress though, the collectivists being their usual fuckwit selves and trying to stop freedom of speech is pissing me off and makes me more in favour of the plebiscite just cause I know they don't like it. Lucky the brexit vote showed what can happen if you do a 'protest vote' rather than what you really want cause I'd be tempted to do a protest vote against the left's BS here.

2 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

Agree with this, the only downfall I can see happening is if the result happens to be massively in favour of same-sex marriage, like over 75-80% (which fwiw I don't think it will be) because then people will probably see it as a waste of money for something quite clearly wanted nationwide.

There is no way it will be over 75%, as I've said before it will be way closer than people expect, but still a comfortable win for same sex marriage. 

[cadete]

@bt50 TBH I will confirm that I have it from as close as source as you can get that the Plebiscite was a political move to try stall Same Sex Marriage.

1 hour ago, thisphantomfortress said:

I'm just amazed with the whole plebicite that Shorten is getting portrayed by the left as a hero for his "if one child commits suicide" BS.

That isn't heroic rhetoric, thats oppression of free speech and meaningful debate.

I am 100% for gay marriage, but I have learnt a hell of a lot about repect becuase of this debate. The total lack of respect for opposing views from the left has made me really worry about the future of freedom of speech in this country. People can't express an opinion without being labled a bigot.

 

Except BigoT50

I wonder which Subgroup in Society these people blame first when they get scared the Plebiscite might not pass...

[bt50]

3 minutes ago, cadete said:

@bt50 TBH I will confirm that I have it from as close as source as you can get that the Plebiscite was a political move to try stall Same Sex Marriage.

I wonder which Subgroup in Society these people blame first when they get scared the Plebiscite might not pass...

Oh im sure it was, but at the end of the day the people will get their vote and popular opinion will win out. AFAIK thats how democracy works. Its clearly a divisive issue that really, when it comes to running a country is irrelevant, so let the people have their vote and suck up whatever the consequences are at the end.

May as well make a few other public votes concurrent at the same time whilst we're at it tbh.

[Tesla]

13 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Oh im sure it was, but at the end of the day the people will get their vote and popular opinion will win out. AFAIK thats how democracy works.

 

It actually isn't, not in Australia and 90% of the other democracies in the world at least.

 

13 minutes ago, bt50 said:

May as well make a few other public votes concurrent at the same time whilst we're at it tbh.

Would be good if we could have a referendum on republic at the same time, and a vote on a new flag (irrespective of republic result, please kill our shit flag).

Edited September 14, 2016 by Tesla

[bt50]

2 minutes ago, Tesla said:

It actually isn't, not in Australia and 90% of the other democracies in the world at least.

 

Would be good if we could have a referendum on republic at the same time, and a vote on a new flag (irrespective of republic result, please kill our shit flag).

Haha not in practice no, but thats the theory at least. Yeh may well kill a few birds with one stone if youre going to do it.

[cadete]

2 minutes ago, Tesla said:

It actually isn't, not in Australia and 90% of the other democracies in the world at least.

Would be good if we could have a referendum on republic at the same time, and a vote on a new flag (irrespective of republic result, please kill our shit flag).

I was thinking about how the ALP promised a Plebiscite on this for years prior to be elected and then whilst in office... and shit all came from it.

[GreenSeater]

6 minutes ago, Tesla said:

It actually isn't, not in Australia and 90% of the other democracies in the world at least.

Exactly. I don't see why we need to vote for it when our political system works on voting in people to represent your views in parliament. That's how most western democracies work. We don't vote on any issues that go before parliament unless the effect the constitution via referendum, so I don't see any need to make the nation vote on it. Fwiw I don't think same sex marriage is that big of an issue that it needs the nation to vote on it. I think it would just make more sense for each party to stick to their own position on same sex marriage and leave it as an election issue, and whoever wins government just passes it as legislation or leaves it the way it is. (I'm aware that it could be said that holding a plebesite is the position of the Liberal Party and was therefore voted for by the people of Australia but still).

Edited September 14, 2016 by GreenSeater

[hedaik]

2 hours ago, bt50 said:

Perhaps, but a plebiscite has to be done in the name of democracy given the magnitude of the issue. This crap the lefties are sprouting about the plebiscite being a bad thing is not only a load of shit, its insulting to the Australian public. Have a vote, then we can be done with the issue for good.

There is actually truth behind what the 'lefties'are sprouting, I have read that during the campaigning from the anti-marriage side that the amount of mental issues experienced from the gay community does go up significantly. The fact that the only gay Liberal MP has also come out and said its a terrible idea indicates it not just a lefty thing. 

Personally the whole gay marriage thing is such a non-issue for me that it bemuses me that we have to have a referendum for such a minor matter that the people we elect should be deciding for us. 

[Chris p]

The left have always hated democracy, their default position is to talk down to people and to conquer them 

[jw1739]

4 hours ago, hedaik said:

There is actually truth behind what the 'lefties'are sprouting, I have read that during the campaigning from the anti-marriage side that the amount of mental issues experienced from the gay community does go up significantly. The fact that the only gay Liberal MP has also come out and said its a terrible idea indicates it not just a lefty thing. 

Personally the whole gay marriage thing is such a non-issue for me that it bemuses me that we have to have a referendum for such a minor matter that the people we elect should be deciding for us. 

I'm sure that you could find evidence of similar increases in stress levels for anyone involved in contentious issues. For example, decisions to close down certain industries, reduce funding for carers, etc. etc.
I'm of the view that much of the stress being claimed by the LGBTIQ+ community is self-inflicted. Their campaign on this particular issue has reached the hysteria level, and IMO that is largely responsible for the reactionary opinions being voiced by conservatives. I don't really want or need to know who is gay or not, whether they want to get married or not, but they need to realise that if they keep banging on about it in public there is going to be a reaction. De facto straight couples don't seem to find it necessary to broadcast their views to all and sundry.
Whatever position one holds on the issue, I wholeheartedly agree that this should not be hi-jacking the business of running the country. Many things are decided by regulation without being debated in parliament and this should have been one of them. However, IIRC we were promised a plebiscite, so let's get on with it.

[bt50]

12 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I'm sure that you could find evidence of similar increases in stress levels for anyone involved in contentious issues. For example, decisions to close down certain industries, reduce funding for carers, etc. etc.
I'm of the view that much of the stress being claimed by the LGBTIQ+ community is self-inflicted. Their campaign on this particular issue has reached the hysteria level, and IMO that is largely responsible for the reactionary opinions being voiced by conservatives. I don't really want or need to know who is gay or not, whether they want to get married or not, but they need to realise that if they keep banging on about it in public there is going to be a reaction. De facto straight couples don't seem to find it necessary to broadcast their views to all and sundry.
Whatever position one holds on the issue, I wholeheartedly agree that this should not be hi-jacking the business of running the country. Many things are decided by regulation without being debated in parliament and this should have been one of them. However, IIRC we were promised a plebiscite, so let's get on with it.

Basically what i meant & think, but much better articulated.

Edited September 14, 2016 by bt50

[hedaik]

41 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I'm sure that you could find evidence of similar increases in stress levels for anyone involved in contentious issues. For example, decisions to close down certain industries, reduce funding for carers, etc. etc.
 

And how many of those contentious issues get $7 million of public funding (on top of the already well funded Christian Lobby) to sprout months of negativity aimed at people who have lost jobs in certain industries, or aimed at carers?

Page 3 below outlines already how mentally unstable gay people are because of their sexuality, to say that a sustained negative campaign won't cause further issues and it's their own communities fault is a pretty cold hearted and pathetic opinion to hold in my view.

https://www.beyondblue.org.au/docs/default-source/default-document-library/bw0258-lgbti-mental-health-and-suicide-2013-2nd-edition.pdf?sfvrsn=2

 

41 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

De facto straight couples don't seem to find it necessary to broadcast their views to all and sundry.

You mean like how we're about to hear months of negativity from straight couples on how gay people can't have what they have?

41 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Their campaign on this particular issue has reached the hysteria level, and IMO that is largely responsible for the reactionary opinions being voiced by conservatives

Possibly  it has hit hysteria level, I don't really see it personally but whatever,  you can't just dismiss the point entirely just because it has come from the left. (Even though a Liberal MP & Alan Jones have both come out against the plebiscite for the reasons above)

Edited September 14, 2016 by hedaik

[Tesla]

41 minutes ago, hedaik said:

And how many of those contentious issues get $7 million of public funding (on top of the already well funded Christian Lobby) to sprout months of negativity aimed at people who have lost jobs in certain industries, or aimed at carers?

Page 3 below outlines already how mentally unstable gay people are because of their sexuality, to say that a sustained negative campaign won't cause further issues and it's their own communities fault is a pretty cold hearted and pathetic opinion to hold in my view.

https://www.beyondblue.org.au/docs/default-source/default-document-library/bw0258-lgbti-mental-health-and-suicide-2013-2nd-edition.pdf?sfvrsn=2

 

You mean like how we're about to hear months of negativity from straight couples on how gay people can't have what they have?

Possibly  it has hit hysteria level, I don't really see it personally but whatever,  you can't just dismiss the point entirely just because it has come from the left. (Even though a Liberal MP & Alan Jones have both come out against the plebiscite for the reasons above)

Look I don't wish that kind of stuff on anyone but freedom of speech can't be dictated by what gets someone "triggered".

Just as gay people should have the right to be married etc the same as everyone else, those against gay marriage have a right to their opinion.

[hedaik]

17 minutes ago, Tesla said:

Look I don't wish that kind of stuff on anyone but freedom of speech can't be dictated by what gets someone "triggered".

Just as gay people should have the right to be married etc the same as everyone else, those against gay marriage have a right to their opinion.

Im not saying that as a sole reason it should mean that the plebiscite shouldn't go ahead, but I don't think it should be dismissed entirely just because its perceived to come from 'The Left' or whatever other team somebody doesn't like. I think psychologists, gay groups etc are well within their rights to voice their concerns knowing that the people they represent and love are going to be affected by it. 

I think if I had a son/loved one that was gay and had seen the amount of mental hurdles they had possibly gone through in life then I'd probably be fairly vocal against it for those reasons. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by hedaik