Domestic Politics

[thisphantomfortress]

46 minutes ago, cadete said:

Most retarded part is it's makes light of Abuse Victims...

Voted today, it's great being in the seat of Melbourne and having al these early voting booths which u get to pass the line at...

Speak for yourself I hate having that smug prick bandt as our member 

[Jimmy]

Just voted. Every candidate for my electorate was handing out their own how to vote cards which was cool.

[cadete]

2 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Speak for yourself I hate having that smug prick bandt as our member 

The guy actually comes from Perth not Melbourne. (Not that I'm knocking anyone who gets the fuck out of there.)

He used to drink at the some Pub as me in Carlton years ago and I used to discuss WA footy with him and his mates.

He actually seemed pretty normal and nice enough, obviously I didn't know his whole story.

[thisphantomfortress]

9 minutes ago, cadete said:

The guy actually comes from Perth not Melbourne. (Not that I'm knocking anyone who gets the fuck out of there.)

He used to drink at the some Pub as me in Carlton years ago and I used to discuss WA footy with him and his mates.

He actually seemed pretty normal and nice enough, obviously I didn't know his whole story.

Slater and Gordon is enough reason for me to dislike him forever. That being said shrewd time for him to leave that sinking ship

[Tesla]

 

[Dylan]

12 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Just voted. Every candidate for my electorate was handing out their own how to vote cards which was cool.

I love how the pre poll people dont bother asking your reason anymore and just ask if you have a reason. Simple acknowledgement that everyone lies anyway  

[Tesla]

56 minutes ago, Dylan said:

I love how the pre poll people dont bother asking your reason anymore and just ask if you have a reason. Simple acknowledgement that everyone lies anyway  

Pretty sure it's better for everyone if you're voting early, for the AEC it spreads out the amount of places and staff needed so it's not all on Saturday. Also more people making use of early voting makes early voting itself more efficient, since early voting has to be offered anyway it's better now that numbers per voting location are reaching election day levels as it means the locations and staff are being used efficiently.

It has to be said the whole election process is so out dated though, surely it wouldn't cost a lot to get a couple $100 tablets at each location instead of having staff look people up on paper (and saves the need to then later check if people have voted twice since it would be automated)

In fact, I don't know why we can't vote over the internet TBH, maybe a bit too soon still but in theory it could work using similar technology to what is used in cryptocurrency.

Frankly it's astounding that the current voting system has (apparently) worked for decades. Voting in pencil? No need for ID so you could just say you're someone else? Nothing stopping you voting at multiple places? I don't even want to imagine what the process of counting the votes is like.

But all of a sudden mention using technology, which would fix most the flaws as well as being a million times more efficient, and the election is gonna get rigged

Edited June 30, 2016 by Tesla

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, Tesla said:

Pretty sure it's better for everyone if you're voting early, for the AEC it spreads out the amount of places and staff needed so it's not all on Saturday. Also more people making use of early voting makes early voting itself more efficient, since early voting has to be offered anyway it's better now that numbers per voting location are reaching election day levels as it means the locations and staff are being used efficiently.

It has to be said the whole election process is so out dated though, surely it wouldn't cost a lot to get a couple $100 tablets at each location instead of having staff look people up on paper (and saves the need to then later check if people have voted twice since it would be automated)

In fact, I don't know why we can't vote over the internet TBH, maybe a bit too soon still but in theory it could work using similar technology to what is used in cryptocurrency.

Frankly it's astounding that the current voting system has (apparently) worked for decades. Voting in pencil? No need for ID so you could just say you're someone else? Nothing stopping you voting at multiple places? I don't even want to imagine what the process of counting the votes is like.

But all of a sudden mention using technology, which would fix most the flaws as well as being a million times more efficient, and the election is gonna get rigged

Two good points: early voting and electronic voting.

What does early voting mean? It means that long election campaigns are a waste and it also means that those who vote early are not swinging voters. Last state election there was a complaint to the courts from a PUP candidate stating that the system was being abused. I know she lost the case but I wonder if someone may succeed and then what? Personally I think that the laws restricting early voting should be abolished and basically once the candidates have been declared and the printing done then polling booths should open. Stop subsidizing the media networks through prelonged advertising.

Electronic voting is more of a no brainer. Brazil does it and they are still considered a third world country. I also know that a few years ago the AEC moved all trade union elections to electronic voting as a trial but I don't know the results nor do I know whether they are still persisting with it.

[Tesla]

45 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Two good points: early voting and electronic voting.

What does early voting mean? It means that long election campaigns are a waste and it also means that those who vote early are not swinging voters. Last state election there was a complaint to the courts from a PUP candidate stating that the system was being abused. I know she lost the case but I wonder if someone may succeed and then what? Personally I think that the laws restricting early voting should be abolished and basically once the candidates have been declared and the printing done then polling booths should open. Stop subsidizing the media networks through prelonged advertising.

Electronic voting is more of a no brainer. Brazil does it and they are still considered a third world country. I also know that a few years ago the AEC moved all trade union elections to electronic voting as a trial but I don't know the results nor do I know whether they are still persisting with it.

I've got no idea what the system in Brazil is like, and of course famously there was some form of electronic voting all the way back in 2000ish when George W Bush was elected.

But specifically I like the potential of blockchain (cryptocurrency) style electronic voting. I know the Libertarian party in the US tried a system for some of their elections, but it was still an in-person vote, but the holy grail of secure online voting is close. 

The issues now are more user issues rather than issues with the system, I know Estonia tried some form of online voting a few years ago, and the issue was things like people voting in view of security cameras, using insecure connections to vote, etc.

The beauty of blockchain voting is that all votes are available publicly, so you can check/know your vote was counted correctly (unlike currently where it could be not counted, counted incorrectly, or even erased and changed to a different vote), while still being anonymous (the simplest way to explain it, is that only you'd know the ID number/hash of your vote, so while the vote would be publicly available no one would know who cast the vote apart from the voter).

In theory, if you had such a system it could lead to a form of delegatable direct democracy, where the barriers to having everything decided democratically are removed, while also the barriers to dynamically delegating your vote are also removed, so people could both vote on everything or delegate their vote to someone else. Not saying I'm necessarily an advocate of such a system, but it would be possible. Of course this potential to disrupt the whole political system doesn't exactly give those who benefit from the current system any incentive to pursue the idea of online voting.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Tesla

[cadete]

48 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Two good points: early voting and electronic voting.

What does early voting mean? It means that long election campaigns are a waste and it also means that those who vote early are not swinging voters. Last state election there was a complaint to the courts from a PUP candidate stating that the system was being abused. I know she lost the case but I wonder if someone may succeed and then what? Personally I think that the laws restricting early voting should be abolished and basically once the candidates have been declared and the printing done then polling booths should open. Stop subsidizing the media networks through prelonged advertising.

Electronic voting is more of a no brainer. Brazil does it and they are still considered a third world country. I also know that a few years ago the AEC moved all trade union elections to electronic voting as a trial but I don't know the results nor do I know whether they are still persisting with it.

Both major parties tend to study on election day how early PPL are going to the booths (Probably less so these days with the early voting days)... but it used to be sometimes seen as a possible signal of discontent at the current government.

I remember as a kid being told by my father that the rate of PPL going to booths early when Joan Kirner was being booted was exceptionally high, which of course was hardly a surprise considering that particular election's result and the economic position Victoria was in at the time.

Edited June 30, 2016 by cadete

[malloy]

The Age are backing Turnball. Huge surprise tbh

[Deeming]

1 minute ago, malloy said:

The Age are backing Turnball. Huge surprise tbh

Just the Sunday Age. The 'normal' Age and every other paper is backing Turnbull

[thisphantomfortress]

6 minutes ago, Deeming said:

Just the Sunday Age. The 'normal' Age and every other paper is backing Turnbull

http://m.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial/federal-election-2016-malcolm-turnbull-deserves-time-to-deliver-on-potential-20160630-gpvjtw.html

Looks like The Age and not the Sunday Age to me. Big call by them, I think just backing a winner more than anything. Coalition unbackable to bring home tomorrow 

[cadete]

3 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

http://m.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial/federal-election-2016-malcolm-turnbull-deserves-time-to-deliver-on-potential-20160630-gpvjtw.html

Looks like The Age and not the Sunday Age to me. Big call by them, I think just backing a winner more than anything. Coalition unbackable to bring home tomorrow 

A newspaper looks like an idiot backing the Loser... like what happened with The Australian and one of the Beasley elections.

I am glad Geelong are not playing this week, because if Shorten got into power the same week the Cats lost I would be pretty pissed off and unable to explain why to my apolitical, non-sports-following partner.

Edited July 1, 2016 by cadete

[Deeming]

9 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

http://m.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial/federal-election-2016-malcolm-turnbull-deserves-time-to-deliver-on-potential-20160630-gpvjtw.html

Looks like The Age and not the Sunday Age to me. Big call by them, I think just backing a winner more than anything. Coalition unbackable to bring home tomorrow 

Yup sorry misread Malloy's post

[Jimmy]

5 hours ago, Dylan said:

I love how the pre poll people dont bother asking your reason anymore and just ask if you have a reason. Simple acknowledgement that everyone lies anyway  

AEC Lady: "Are you eligible to vote early?"

Jimmy: "Ah Shit, I wouldn't have thought actually"

AEC Lady: "How about you try saying yes?"

Jimmy: "Oh ok then, yes."

[Jimmy]

3 hours ago, NewConvert said:

What does early voting mean? It means that long election campaigns are a waste and it also means that those who vote early are not swinging voters. 

I disagree with this. I think they're obviously far more likely to not be undecided voters, but could definitely still be swing voters. I'd say the difference would be that those who vote early are more likely to be politically savy and engaged with the process, which if anything would lead to them being more likely to be a swinging vote.

[Tesla]

31 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

http://m.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial/federal-election-2016-malcolm-turnbull-deserves-time-to-deliver-on-potential-20160630-gpvjtw.html

Looks like The Age and not the Sunday Age to me. Big call by them, I think just backing a winner more than anything. Coalition unbackable to bring home tomorrow 

TBH I've always thought the bias of the Age to the left is overstated. Seriously the ABC seems worse.

[cadete]

1 hour ago, Tesla said:

TBH I've always thought the bias of the Age to the left is overstated. Seriously the ABC seems worse.

It did not seem that way when this fuckwit wrote an "Opinion" column in that rag every week...

http://www.catherinedeveny.com/column-archive/

Edited July 1, 2016 by cadete

[NewConvert]

2 hours ago, Tesla said:

TBH I've always thought the bias of the Age to the left is overstated. Seriously the ABC seems worse.

The Age is biased to the right. The ABC is biased to the right with Chris Ulhman being an outright right winger. What the ABC does is to ask questions that are hard.

Talking to a conservative friend of mine a while back we discussed how thin skinned politicians are today compared to 40+ years ago. I noted that Churchill had no qualms in going into the British coal mines and arguing against the socialists/communists/labourites (neither did Joh Bjelke-Petersen), Sir Robert Menzies did the same as did Gough Whitlam, Bob Hawke and of course Keating. The perception of bias comes across because if they are asked hard questions they do not have the wit nor intellect to be able to reply. Of course, these days far too many try and be cute such as Morrison the other day attempting to evade the question. I rather have Cori Bernardi rather than morrison because at least Bernardi does not bother to hide where he is coming from.

[Shahanga]

37 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

The Age is biased to the right. The ABC is biased to the right with Chris Ulhman being an outright right winger. What the ABC does is to ask questions that are hard.

Talking to a conservative friend of mine a while back we discussed how thin skinned politicians are today compared to 40+ years ago. I noted that Churchill had no qualms in going into the British coal mines and arguing against the socialists/communists/labourites (neither did Joh Bjelke-Petersen), Sir Robert Menzies did the same as did Gough Whitlam, Bob Hawke and of course Keating. The perception of bias comes across because if they are asked hard questions they do not have the wit nor intellect to be able to reply. Of course, these days far too many try and be cute such as Morrison the other day attempting to evade the question. I rather have Cori Bernardi rather than morrison because at least Bernardi does not bother to hide where he is coming from.

My issue with the ABC is that most of the hard questions they ask are from a left perspective. They don't seem to ask hard questions from a right perspective. When I first came to Melbourne about 8 years ago I read the age for a week. All the stories appeared to have been written by the greens. I haven't read it since (aside from the business section).

i agree with your premise though "politicians should harden the fuck up". 

[Deeming]

Just now, Shahanga said:

My issue with the ABC is that most of the hard questions they ask are from a left perspective. They don't seem to ask hard questions from a right perspective. When I first came to Melbourne about 8 years ago I read the age for a week. All the stories appeared to have been written by the greens. I haven't read it since (aside from the business section).

i agree with your premise though "politicians should harden the fuck up". 

That's right. The current example they keep asking the Liberals "if the public votes FOR same-sex-marriage in the plebiscite will you respect the vote, accept it and vote FOR it?". No one as far as I can see has asked anyone on the left "if the public votes AGAINST same-sex-marriage in the plebiscite will you respect the vote and accept it?"

[GreenSeater]

If anyone on here uses Snapchat, make sure you try out the new filter lens thing that shows you how to incorrectly vote for Liberal. Shows that the advertising blackout is obviously useless.

[Deeming]

Just now, GreenSeater said:

If anyone on here uses Snapchat, make sure you try out the new filter lens thing that shows you how to incorrectly vote for Liberal. Shows that the advertising blackout is obviously useless.

I was watching something on the channel 9 TV app last night, it was playing ads from the Greens

[NewConvert]

38 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

My issue with the ABC is that most of the hard questions they ask are from a left perspective. They don't seem to ask hard questions from a right perspective. When I first came to Melbourne about 8 years ago I read the age for a week. All the stories appeared to have been written by the greens. I haven't read it since (aside from the business section).

i agree with your premise though "politicians should harden the fuck up". 

You did say you were from Queensland after all. Glad that you also agree that politicians these are a bunch of dandies.

33 minutes ago, Deeming said:

That's right. The current example they keep asking the Liberals "if the public votes FOR same-sex-marriage in the plebiscite will you respect the vote, accept it and vote FOR it?". No one as far as I can see has asked anyone on the left "if the public votes AGAINST same-sex-marriage in the plebiscite will you respect the vote and accept it?"

I fully agree with your question regarding what would happen if the public votes for the status quo whether the greens would support it or not - ditto Labour. Although technicality they are not obliged to follow it since the plebiscite is not their policy and as many conservatives have pointed out plebiscites are none binding. I also suspect that the plebiscite will not go ahead in any case because if I was MT I would get Cori Bernardi to write the question, which would then be rejected in the Senate and then the government would say that they promised a plebiscite, it was not passed and now it would be time to move on. But back to your premise the question should be asked.

[cadete]

1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

The Age is biased to the right. The ABC is biased to the right with Chris Ulhman being an outright right winger. What the ABC does is to ask questions that are hard.

Talking to a conservative friend of mine a while back we discussed how thin skinned politicians are today compared to 40+ years ago. I noted that Churchill had no qualms in going into the British coal mines and arguing against the socialists/communists/labourites (neither did Joh Bjelke-Petersen), Sir Robert Menzies did the same as did Gough Whitlam, Bob Hawke and of course Keating. The perception of bias comes across because if they are asked hard questions they do not have the wit nor intellect to be able to reply. Of course, these days far too many try and be cute such as Morrison the other day attempting to evade the question. I rather have Cori Bernardi rather than morrison because at least Bernardi does not bother to hide where he is coming from.

You are kidding yourself... no Political Commentators left of fucken Stalin have been on Qanda for years now due to the biased shit Tony Jones and what that show throw at them.

This is just a blatant fact.

Edit - And the only reason Conservative Politicians go on that show is because they are MP's and feel like they should take such interviews.

Edited July 1, 2016 by cadete

[GreenSeater]

2 hours ago, cadete said:

You are kidding yourself... no Political Commentators left of fucken Stalin have been on Qanda for years now due to the biased shit Tony Jones and what that show throw at them.

This is just a blatant fact.

Edit - And the only reason Conservative Politicians go on that show is because they are MP's and feel like they should take such interviews.

You know Alan Jones was on Qanda on Monday night right?

3 hours ago, Deeming said:

I was watching something on the channel 9 TV app last night, it was playing ads from the Greens

Yeah the ban doesn't cover the internet, which is what I mean, absolutely useless at this point.

[NewConvert]

4 hours ago, cadete said:

You are kidding yourself... no Political Commentators left of fucken Stalin have been on Qanda for years now due to the biased shit Tony Jones and what that show throw at them.

This is just a blatant fact.

Edit - And the only reason Conservative Politicians go on that show is because they are MP's and feel like they should take such interviews.

Well the review conducted by Ray Martin and Shaun Brown on behalf of the ABC as requested by the Abbot government found that there were not enough greens being invited nor women nor from people outside of Sydney. He also found that regular panellist Alan Jones received some of the loudest and most sustained applause. I also presume you meant to say to the right of Stalin and the review clearly says that this is not the case.

An earlier review in the mid 90s conducted by PriceWaterhouseCoopers (IIRC) also found that there was no political bias at the ABC. That review was ordered by then communications minister Richard Alston. The funny thing was that the biggest amount of complaints, 80% of all complaints, were about the perceived bias by sporting commentators. A mere 17% of complaints were about politics.

So I am not sure where you get your facts from...

[hedaik]

Im somebody that considers themselves fairly central in views (probably slightly left), all my green voting mates think Im right wing and all my Liberal supporting mates think I'm left. Ive always thought the whole perceived bias of the ABC Is just right wingers thinking anything thats central in views is left wing when its not. 

[Jimmy]

[Nate]

I shoulda voted early, the queue was like 40 minutes long

40 minutes of responding with "no thanks, I'm right"

[Shahanga]

27 minutes ago, Nate said:

I shoulda voted early, the queue was like 40 minutes long

40 minutes of responding with "no thanks, I'm right"

Interstate. 8 staff 2 voters. Took 1 minute.

main issue was 1.5 m long senate paper, 0.3m wide booth, pencil tied to the right but am left handed.

Next election will form the left handed party to get a special programme in schools to stop the descrimination.

[thisphantomfortress]

1 hour ago, Nate said:

I shoulda voted early, the queue was like 40 minutes long

40 minutes of responding with "no thanks, I'm right"

I had about the same wait time but the line was inside Collingwood College so thI how to vote people were allowed in so I didn't get hassled 

[GreenSeater]

Was pretty cold at my voting booth, luckily the senate paper was fucking big enough I could fold it into a shelter for myself and my girlfriend.

[jw1739]

3 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Interstate. 8 staff 2 voters. Took 1 minute.

main issue was 1.5 m long senate paper, 0.3m wide booth, pencil tied to the right but am left handed.

Next election will form the left handed party to get a special programme in schools to stop the descrimination.

Legitimate request to the AEC would be provision of a certain % of "left-handed booths." Or even cheaper, a pencil on both sides.

Main issue for us was that the polling station that has been in our street for every election for the past 25 years - and a neighbour of longer residence said 40 years - was not in use this time around. Without warning or notice. Quite a number of people were arriving by car and on foot to find no station to vote at. 

[NewConvert]

4 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Interstate. 8 staff 2 voters. Took 1 minute.

main issue was 1.5 m long senate paper, 0.3m wide booth, pencil tied to the right but am left handed.

Next election will form the left handed party to get a special programme in schools to stop the descrimination.

In my case all the booths had the pencil on the left hand side and most people (abut 90%) are right handed. Voted after lunch and was waved through quite quickly.

[Tesla]

Please not a hung parliment, don't negotiate with Xenophon ffs gonna move to the UK if gambling gets restricted any more.

[Tesla]

Not looking good for senate, good call Deeming looks like it will be Hinch for Vic, unless there is more than 1 minor since major parties vote is so low. A bunch of other minors on a little over 1% so I guess it will be all about preferences if there is going to be more than 1 minor party senator, maybe even 2 Hinch.

Fucking One Nation the leader in NSW on primary votes for the 12th spot but I dont know how preferences flow, I guess that's where the minor party right wing vote has gone. Plus the 2 in Qld One Nation might get. Over 5% primary in WA so far as well lol, fuck me.

Fold the country if One Nation have 4 senate seats, fucking embarrassing  

Edited July 2, 2016 by Tesla

[GreenSeater]

Turnbull vs Shorten paper scissors rock to decide the election plz.

[Jimmy]

Please no hung parliament.