Tesla Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Just want to take this moment to remind everyone that Labor choose Mark Latham to be their leader once upon a time 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Tesla said: Just want to take this moment to remind everyone that Labor choose Mark Latham to be their leader once upon a time This is where I remind you that the liberals elected Malcolm Turnbull as their leader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malloy Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 11 hours ago, Shahanga said: This is where I remind you that the liberals elected Malcolm Turnbull as their leader Twice.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 12 hours ago, Shahanga said: This is where I remind you that the liberals elected Malcolm Turnbull as their leader Nobody who was involved with the Latham Campaign would think that was was comparable... the guy is a complete narcissist who based an entire Election Campaign on himself (All that Latham Express Crap) which was why he could not take it when Australia rejected himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 One is a complete nutcase the other should just enjoy his rich cunt life instead of wasting his time with politics. Some people just aren't cut out for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 The FWC process being politicised again just makes me think it should be even more independent. It's pretty stupid right now, industry groups are always going to put in a low number, unions a high number, neither of which are actually of any use to the FWC surely. The government's input might be of value but now they're too scared to even out in a number. The submissions are basically pointless, I'm sure the FWC can figure it out based off inflation and unemployment alone (probably what they do anyway). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Tesla said: The FWC process being politicised again just makes me think it should be even more independent. It's pretty stupid right now, industry groups are always going to put in a low number, unions a high number, neither of which are actually of any use to the FWC surely. The government's input might be of value but now they're too scared to even out in a number. The submissions are basically pointless, I'm sure the FWC can figure it out based off inflation and unemployment alone (probably what they do anyway). It has always been the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeming Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 Well done Matthew Guy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Is this one we really want to go down the US route on? Crime minimisation is really not their strong suit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisphantomfortress Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Tough on crime is the biggest crock of shit ever. The issues are far more complex than just throwing people in jail longer (will cost us far more to have them in the big house than the economic damage their crimes cost) I don't have the answers but I do know this isn't it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeming Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Tesla said: Is this one we really want to go down the US route on? Crime minimisation is really not their strong suit. I'd prefer the Singapore model but would settle for the US model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said: Tough on crime is the biggest crock of shit ever. The issues are far more complex than just throwing people in jail longer (will cost us far more to have them in the big house than the economic damage their crimes cost) I don't have the answers but I do know this isn't it. Pretty much how I see it. it's not just the cost of locking them up, but the lost positive contribution to society these people could be making. Not only that, but most come out of the system worse. Many unemployable etc. Personally I think prison should only be for violent crime, and I have to say for repeat offenders of violent crimes the current system seems a bit too lenient. So something probably does need to be done about that. But where the system is retarded IMO is for shit like white collar crime, prison makes little sense and i'm sure there are better ways to punish these people and have them repay their debt to society then sending them to prison. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisphantomfortress Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Tesla said: Pretty much how I see it. it's not just the cost of locking them up, but the lost positive contribution to society these people could be making. Not only that, but most come out of the system worse. Many unemployable etc. Personally I think prison should only be for violent crime, and I have to say for repeat offenders of violent crimes the current system seems a bit too lenient. So something probably does need to be done about that. But where the system is retarded IMO is for shit like white collar crime, prison makes little sense and i'm sure there are better ways to punish these people and have them repay their debt to society then sending them to prison. I think we still have an archaic idea of crime and punishment. White collar crime is the perfect example - putting someone like Oliver Curtis behind bars is just a waste of tax payers money. 11 minutes ago, Deeming said: I'd prefer the Singapore model but would settle for the US model No dice, I enjoy my victimless crimes too much to ever agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Also 18 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said: I don't have the answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeming Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 1 minute ago, thisphantomfortress said: I think we still have an archaic idea of crime and punishment. White collar crime is the perfect example - putting someone like Oliver Curtis behind bars is just a waste of tax payers money. No dice, I enjoy my victimless crimes too much to ever agree with this. No victim = no crime 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisphantomfortress Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Deeming said: No victim = no crime So true it hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Tesla said: Pretty much how I see it. it's not just the cost of locking them up, but the lost positive contribution to society these people could be making. Not only that, but most come out of the system worse. Many unemployable etc. Personally I think prison should only be for violent crime, and I have to say for repeat offenders of violent crimes the current system seems a bit too lenient. So something probably does need to be done about that. But where the system is retarded IMO is for shit like white collar crime, prison makes little sense and i'm sure there are better ways to punish these people and have them repay their debt to society then sending them to prison. Out of likes but fully agree. Particularly I don't like to see young first offenders incarcerated for relatively petty crimes. Id like to see a much stronger emphasis on serious and meaningful community service - not bullshit stuff - that would benefit society and provide opportunities for the offenders to turn their lives around. Nearly everyone makes silly mistakes at some time or other and I like to see people given a second chance. As you say, though, violent crime does require a different approach. Some of these being perpetrated make me wonder whether the culprits have forfeited their right to live; what they have done is just unforgiveable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 15 minutes ago, jw1739 said: Out of likes but fully agree. Particularly I don't like to see young first offenders incarcerated for relatively petty crimes. Id like to see a much stronger emphasis on serious and meaningful community service - not bullshit stuff - that would benefit society and provide opportunities for the offenders to turn their lives around. Nearly everyone makes silly mistakes at some time or other and I like to see people given a second chance. As you say, though, violent crime does require a different approach. Some of these being perpetrated make me wonder whether the culprits have forfeited their right to live; what they have done is just unforgiveable. You're first paragraph is how I see it too. I'm sure we could find uses for the people committing white collar crime to repay their debt to society through some better form of community service. Once they're caught they'll most likely never be in a position to commit the same crimes again anyway, and if they did then maybe jail needs to be on the table. But currently you see people going to jail longer for white collar crime than people who kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedaik Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 10 hours ago, Deeming said: Well done Matthew Guy! Whats the minimum for corrupt opposition leaders with grubby property developer dealings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartFc Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 If you're in favour of prevention rather than jail time then you should be against all immigration from Africa and the Middle East. You can't have your cake and have your house invaded by apex while eating it too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 1 hour ago, HeartFc said: If you're in favour of prevention rather than jail time then you should be against all immigration from Africa and the Middle East. Perhaps I am....I'm not necessarily a politically correct person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSeater Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 3 hours ago, HeartFc said: If you're in favour of prevention rather than jail time then you should be against all immigration from Africa and the Middle East. You can't have your cake and have your house invaded by apex while eating it too. I'm just going to leave this here. http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/apex-gang-most-youth-crimes-committed-by-australianborn-police-say-20170412-gvj964.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted April 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, GreenSeater said: I'm just going to leave this here. http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/apex-gang-most-youth-crimes-committed-by-australianborn-police-say-20170412-gvj964.html The biggest issue with APEX is not how big or organised they were but more the Rights of Passage the whole thing has created in regards to Stealing Cars in particular Ethnic Communities... A similar thing used to happen all the time in Belfast where the Catholic kids would get drunk and then every weekend set Buses and other crap on fire to show the Men in their tightknit communities that they were of age now. Edited April 12, 2017 by cadete 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) On 12/04/2017 at 11:33 PM, GreenSeater said: I'm just going to leave this here. http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/apex-gang-most-youth-crimes-committed-by-australianborn-police-say-20170412-gvj964.html But they are mostly the children of immigrants from a couple of African countries. It's disingenuous to suggest there isn't a problem in those communities. What frustrates me is this refusal to accept there is a problem. Everyone knows you can't fix something you won't admit exists. Edited April 14, 2017 by Shahanga Typo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSeater Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Shahanga said: But they are mostly the children of immigrants from a couple of African countries. It's disingenuous to suggest there isn't a problem in those communities. What frustrates me is this refusal to accept there is a problem. Everyone knows you can fix something you won't admit exists. Never said there weren't problems in those communities. Simply pointing out that the fact it's mostly Australian born people committing crimes, regardless of their parents birth, shows that stopping immigration from those countries isn't the answer. Like the discussion on minimum sentencing above, it's not as simple as it seems, and there are better ways to deal with issues than going in gung-ho. Education, community development and more focus on youth programs are the answer not immigration bans. Banning immigration from those parts of the world will just further alienate the people from those backgrounds who are already here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, GreenSeater said: Never said there weren't problems in those communities. Simply pointing out that the fact it's mostly Australian born people committing crimes, regardless of their parents birth, shows that stopping immigration from those countries isn't the answer. Like the discussion on minimum sentencing above, it's not as simple as it seems, and there are better ways to deal with issues than going in gung-ho. Education, community development and more focus on youth programs are the answer not immigration bans. Banning immigration from those parts of the world will just further alienate the people from those backgrounds who are already here. Well I'm not advocating it, but its true that if we didn't take these people from those countries as refugees then their children wouldn't be born here. So you can't isolate immigration from this debate. Clearly we as a country didn't have a decent plan to assimilate these people and probably took too many as well. Again, I'd like our government to unemotionally analyse what actually happened and make sure "next time" they have a plan that doesn't leave us with a violent crime wave. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisphantomfortress Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, Shahanga said: Well I'm not advocating it, but its true that if we didn't take these people from those countries as refugees then their children wouldn't be born here. So you can't isolate immigration from this debate. Clearly we as a country didn't have a decent plan to assimilate these people and probably took too many as well. Again, I'd like our government to unemotionally analyse what actually happened and make sure "next time" they have a plan that doesn't leave us with a violent crime wave. Pretty much sums up our refugee policy for years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Shahanga said: Well I'm not advocating it, but its true that if we didn't take these people from those countries as refugees then their children wouldn't be born here. So you can't isolate immigration from this debate. Clearly we as a country didn't have a decent plan to assimilate these people and probably took too many as well. Again, I'd like our government to unemotionally analyse what actually happened and make sure "next time" they have a plan that doesn't leave us with a violent crime wave. You can't - or shouldn't - isolate immigration from pretty much any debate in this country, because it is a major source of our population growth, and population growth is a major factor in a great many policy matters that we have to deal with. To ignore immigration is stupid head-in-the-sand stuff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 Given the failure of governments to adequately deal with anything resulting from immigration it might be time to slow it down a little. All forms of it, whether it's refugees or 'skilled' migration. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartFc Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 11 hours ago, GreenSeater said: Never said there weren't problems in those communities. Simply pointing out that the fact it's mostly Australian born people committing crimes, regardless of their parents birth, shows that stopping immigration from those countries isn't the answer. Like the discussion on minimum sentencing above, it's not as simple as it seems, and there are better ways to deal with issues than going in gung-ho. Education, community development and more focus on youth programs are the answer not immigration bans. Banning immigration from those parts of the world will just further alienate the people from those backgrounds who are already here. Lay off the blue pills brah, next thing you know you'll start dropping made stats about how many Aboriginal and Feather Indians white people killed. #invasionday #cleanupaustraliaday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 14, 2017 Report Share Posted April 14, 2017 16 hours ago, Tesla said: Given the failure of governments to adequately deal with anything resulting from immigration it might be time to slow it down a little. All forms of it, whether it's refugees or 'skilled' migration. It's very difficult to find the actual numbers. I spent yesterday afternoon trying to work my way through the maze. There are so many categories of people that it's virtually impossible to come up with actual numbers, and as far as I can see the ABS has given up and merely measures certain categories that it considers it has reasonably reliable numbers for. I suspect that immigration is just another socio-economic area where we have made things too complicated for our own good and where we need to call a halt, strip out the crap, and start again keeping it simple. As far as I could make out yesterday the net increase in population from migration is somewhere between 150,000 and 250,000 souls per year. Whichever number you take that's effectively a growth of a major city every ten years. Even if you assume that all the immigrants are "ready-made Australians" it's sheer madness to ignore immigration in public policy-making etc., and as we know many immigrants are not "ready-made" and they need special care and help in order for our society to move forward in a coherent way. Governments of all persuasions are pussy-footing around this issue and it's time to get honest and transparent about it. In the end it's in everyone's benefit to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Worst budget by a Liberal government in my life time? At least could have cut $3bn from foreign aid instead of $300m, Soros doesnt need any more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisphantomfortress Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Tesla said: Worst budget by a Liberal government in my life time? At least could have cut $3bn from foreign aid instead of $300m, Soros doesnt need any more money. Not keen on the drug testing for benefits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 11 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said: Not keen on the drug testing for benefits Does it apply to parliamentarians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisphantomfortress Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, jw1739 said: Does it apply to parliamentarians? Only dole recipients, I just find it a deprivation of liberty. We gunna put GPS in their cars and cut their dole for speeding too soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 A lavor budget with some populist one nation sprinklings. It's about all you can get through the senate these days. I'm sure scomo would love to go ham but there's zero point. We are fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 4 hours ago, jw1739 said: Does it apply to parliamentarians? Self-quoting - apologies for that. But... http://www.abc.net.au/news/story-streams/federal-budget-2017/2017-05-10/federal-budget-2017-lambie-drug-test-call-for-politicians/8512902 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSeater Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 2 hours ago, jw1739 said: Self-quoting - apologies for that. But... http://www.abc.net.au/news/story-streams/federal-budget-2017/2017-05-10/federal-budget-2017-lambie-drug-test-call-for-politicians/8512902 Jackie Lambie is so irritating. She has so many good ideas on so many things and then at the same time so many whacked out batshit crazy ideas at the same time. It's like she's two different politicians in one and it's really hard to actually form an opinion on her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisphantomfortress Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 27 minutes ago, GreenSeater said: Jackie Lambie is so irritating. She has so many good ideas on so many things and then at the same time so many whacked out batshit crazy ideas at the same time. It's like she's two different politicians in one and it's really hard to actually form an opinion on her Even a broke clock is right twice a day, her policies are like Shazza the tuckshop lady has been voted into parliament 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 20 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said: Even a broke clock is right twice a day, her policies are like Shazza the tuckshop lady has been voted into parliament Makes a fucking mean sausage roll though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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