The JvS thread

[KSK_47]

17 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Win record is not as reliable as what people make out, and more often than not a reflection of the team as a whole. Look at Arni and Musctard for example.

The point i was making is that as far as I'm concerned we have well and truly used up our quota of unproven coaches.

 

[bt50]

12 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

I have absolutely been harsh on him and never give him any credit whatsoever because the negative still completely eclipses any positives in my eyes. The amount of times this guy has been let off the hook is comical. And as i have said many times before if we are going to import coaching personnel there should never be any excuses made for them what so ever. Little pats on the back for getting basics right or praise for small patches of doing the right thing are counterproductive. Particularly after hearing about how aloisi wasnt fired after that Adelaide game because the crowd were applauding him (and i am guilty of being one of those clapping that day).

CFG promised us ruthlessness when it came to underperformance  and i want to see them deliver.

Appreciate what you're saying, but the problem is just as much at the top as it is in the coaching role if things like the applause at the Adelaide game are what save the coach. 

[KSK_47]

5 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Appreciate what you're saying, but the problem is just as much at the top as it is in the coaching role if things like the applause at the Adelaide game are what save the coach. 

True. And one of my major concerns is that we still have a ceo who has been a huge advocate for jvs over thr years

[Jovan]

1 hour ago, KSK_47 said:

Big name, 36% win record, no success. Perfect!

And can play left back. Is Brazilian so he must know alot of shit.

No brainer. 

[bt50]

16 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

True. And one of my major concerns is that we still have a ceo who has been a huge advocate for jvs over thr years

Has he though? Or is that just assumed?
Anyways, although he might have an influential say, at the end of the day the decision on appointing sacking coaches is solely the board’s, and they were the ones that played the key roles in the delayed sacking of JA. Ive mentioned it before that imo the biggest error that CFG made when they reappointed JVS was not reappointing him, but the amount and length of the contract they committed to. It’s meant an overcommittment financially and one that will incur a big financial loss to terminate early; I think otherwise JVS definitely wouldn’t have been coach come Round 1 this year.

[KSK_47]

4 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Has he though? Or is that just assumed?
Anyways, although he might have an influential say, at the end of the day the decision on appointing sacking coaches is solely the board’s, and they were the ones that played the key roles in the delayed sacking of JA. Ive mentioned it before that imo the biggest error that CFG made when they reappointed JVS was not reappointing him, but the amount and length of the contract they committed to. It’s meant an overcommittment financially and one that will incur a big financial loss to terminate early; I think otherwise JVS definitely wouldn’t have been coach come Round 1 this year.

I can confidently say Munn has always regarded jvs very highly.

But it doesn't really matter anyway. I completely agree with you. The biggest error cfg made was giving him such a lengthy watertight contract.

[Embee]

9 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

I can confidently say Munn has always regarded jvs very highly.

But it doesn't really matter anyway. I completely agree with you. The biggest error cfg made was giving him such a lengthy watertight contract.

Munn hammered him in the FRG after the Perth Cup defeat last season, I'm not sure if he views him as positively as he once did. Regardless, I dare say the call on appointing/firing coaches is well beyond the Munnster now.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Embee

[bt50]

4 minutes ago, Embee said:

Munn hammered him in the FRG after the Perth Cup defeat last season, I'm not sure if he views him as positively as he once did. Regardless, I dare say the call on appointing/firing coaches is well beyond the Munnster now.

Yeh certainly from what i can tell, even more so since CFG came into the fold.
I'm sure there'll be plenty of people externally to tell me otherwise, but the opinions of those from within the club and its hierarchy, and my own personal dealings to a lesser extent, are the only ones i ever really value when it comes to roles such as CEO's, and everything i've ever heard in regards to Scott Munn from those sources is extremely positive.

[KSK_47]

3 minutes ago, Embee said:

Munn hammered him in the FRG after the Perth Cup defeat last season, I'm not sure if he views him as positively as he once did. Regardless, I dare say the call on appointing/firing coaches is well beyond the Munnster now.

Yes i should have specified that i know he did at one stage regard him highly and if his view has since changed its good but still concerning.

[KSK_47]

8 minutes ago, bt50 said:

and everything i've ever heard in regards to Scott Munn from those sources is extremely positive.

Just to clarify i wasnt calling for munns head. Everyone i have spoken to who regularly delt with him as well as the few times i have delt with him personally have all been positive. It was just the view on jvs that i found a worry, particularly if cfg were taking that option into consideration

Edited December 6, 2016 by KSK_47

[bt50]

Just now, KSK_47 said:

Just to clarify i wasnt calling for munns head. Everyone i have spoken to who regularly delt with him as well as the few times i have delt with him personally have all been positive. It was just the view on jvs that i found a worry, particularly if cfg were taking that option into consideration

Haha yeh I know, wasnt really referring to you there; more the wealth of people that have come on here and other social media outlets over the years calling for Munn's scalp or blaming our on field results on him. Been a bit quiet on Munn-hate front lately though tbh, so i guess somethings going right  
On a side note, the fan engagement and social media team have been stellar this season so far imo, way ahead of the other clubs.

[jw1739]

I can only assume that the appointment of JvS by CFG for three years was either conditional on demonstrating continual improvement (and that he's scraped in on the set milestones) or that CFG saw a need for some stability while they addressed the off-field objectives that they had (such as name and colours, and which, again, they've just about achieved except for this unresolved issue with the "other Melbourne City"). We also have to consider the wider business interests of CFG and how they would be served by continual upheaval within the Group. Otherwise, a three-year tenure would appear to have been a doubtful business decision on CFG's part.

[KSK_47]

19 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Been a bit quiet on Munn-hate front lately though tbh, so i guess somethings going right  
On a side note, the fan engagement and social media team have been stellar this season so far imo, way ahead of the other clubs.

Yeah definitely. And i think back in the heart days (like many others) his role spilled over into areas where we really should have had someone specialised in that area.

Social media/fan engagement, etc are the least of my concerns these days. Its really just the on field stuff that's holding us back

Edited December 6, 2016 by KSK_47

[jw1739]

59 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Yeah definitely. And i think back in the heart days (like many others) his role spilled over into areas where we really should have had someone specialised in that area.

Social media/fan engagement, etc are the least of my concerns these days. Its really just the on field stuff that's holding us back.

Yes. Agree wholeheartedly. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by jw1739

[KSK_47]

14 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Yes. Agree wholeheartedly. 

Thanks for quoting me before i fixed my appalling grammar lol

[playmaker]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/studs-up-football-chat-the-10-best-australian-coaches-in-waiting/news-story/f97f0c64c755b5500c13aa89239c4a09

[KSK_47]

14 minutes ago, playmaker said:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/studs-up-football-chat-the-10-best-australian-coaches-in-waiting/news-story/f97f0c64c755b5500c13aa89239c4a09

If Milicic came here and was a success we would look like the biggest idiots

[n i k o]

7 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

If Milicic came here and was a success we would look like the biggest idiots

A rational person would understand that a lot of water has passed under this particular bridge and its different time for both him and the club compared to back in 2012. But yes I agree the 'common' sense reaction would be to get in a frenzy how he would have brought us success had he been selected 4 years ago. 

 

 

[KSK_47]

24 minutes ago, n i k o said:

A rational person would understand that a lot of water has passed under this particular bridge and its different time for both him and the club compared to back in 2012. But yes I agree the 'common' sense reaction would be to get in a frenzy how he would have brought us success had he been selected 4 years ago. 

 

Obviously he has had a lot more time learning, so the 2017 model would be very different to the 2012 one and not comparable. But would still be weird to think that we chose the coach who equaled the longest non winning run in league history over him because people knew who Aloisi is.

Edited December 6, 2016 by KSK_47

[moops]

10 hours ago, Alexxxandro said:

I like to think anyone can change. And maybe he is undergoing a serious change for the better. If so, it's about time and doesn't negate all the criticisms that have been leveled against him on this thread and elsewhere. I personally feel though that it's Bruno and Cahill leading the playing group in terms of leadership and passion.

To a point, but it's also 'the City way', JVS is learning to tow the line, to be a man manager, I think he has grown a lot in the last 6 months and the last 2 months even more rapidly.

I don't think he should be our manager, but I won't begrudge the guy for our first silverware and him growing a couple.

[ecguymer]

...I wonder if his change in attitude as (at least in part) come about due to pressure from his assistants.......

[n i k o]

JVS is essentially the spokesman and leader for the team. There's only so much someone can trash you and your team before you feel the need to say something. That and the confidence of winning your first trophy as a coach can also help in growing a pair. Matter of time before the nice 'give everyone a chance' JVS returns. 

[Falastur]

17 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I can only assume that the appointment of JvS by CFG for three years was either conditional on demonstrating continual improvement (and that he's scraped in on the set milestones) or that CFG saw a need for some stability while they addressed the off-field objectives that they had (such as name and colours, and which, again, they've just about achieved except for this unresolved issue with the "other Melbourne City"). We also have to consider the wider business interests of CFG and how they would be served by continual upheaval within the Group. Otherwise, a three-year tenure would appear to have been a doubtful business decision on CFG's part.

Maybe...but maybe not. I know he was only renewing his contract at the time, not signing for the first time, but that would be fairly standard fair for European football, which is all CFG knew at that juncture. In Europe, giving a coach anything less than a three year contract is essentially viewed as either an indication that they are a glorified caretaker manager and that they know it (think Benitez back at Chelsea) or that the board doesn't really have that much faith in the guy they just appointed and they are nervous for an easy way to pull the trigger early. In spite of the fact that managers' tenures are getting shorter and shorter, across Europe and indeed around the world, the idea of signing someone for only one or even two years just gives off this air of sleaziness on the part of the club, and it's entirely possible that that culture was behind their decision.

[KSK_47]

1 hour ago, Falastur said:

giving a coach anything less than a three year contract is essentially viewed as either an indication that they are a glorified caretaker manager and that they know it (think Benitez back at Chelsea) or that the board doesn't really have that much faith in the guy they just appointed and they are nervous for an easy way to pull the trigger early.

Thats what he said. They made a bad business decision 😜

[Falastur]

1 minute ago, KSK_47 said:

Thats what he said. They made a bad business decision 😜

I read it more as him saying the decision was questionable, in the sense of it being hard to understand why they thought it was a good idea. I'm saying I can perfectly understand why they thought it was a good decision, but I still agree it was a bad one in truth.

[KSK_47]

Just now, Falastur said:

I read it more as him saying the decision was questionable, in the sense of it being hard to understand why they thought it was a good idea. I'm saying I can perfectly understand why they thought it was a good decision, but I still agree it was a bad one in truth.

I was just being cheeky mate. All good

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, Falastur said:

I read it more as him saying the decision was questionable, in the sense of it being hard to understand why they thought it was a good idea. I'm saying I can perfectly understand why they thought it was a good decision, but I still agree it was a bad one in truth.

In summary you're agreeing with my proposition that what I euphemistically called "stability" and "wider business interests" was the basis of a three-year contract. 

[Falastur]

59 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

In summary you're agreeing with my proposition that what I euphemistically called "stability" and "wider business interests" was the basis of a three-year contract. 

In summary, yes.

[Jacques Le Cube]

On 06/12/2016 at 0:13 PM, jw1739 said:

I can only assume that the appointment of JvS by CFG for three years was either conditional on demonstrating continual improvement (and that he's scraped in on the set milestones) or that CFG saw a need for some stability while they addressed the off-field objectives that they had (such as name and colours, and which, again, they've just about achieved except for this unresolved issue with the "other Melbourne City"). We also have to consider the wider business interests of CFG and how they would be served by continual upheaval within the Group. Otherwise, a three-year tenure would appear to have been a doubtful business decision on CFG's part.

When CFG formally appointed JVS, Scott Munn was interviewed on radio (I think SEN). He said that CFG thought they were very lucky to have someone with his philosophy, European experience, and local knowledge already at the club. And that CFG were desperate to keep him. Given the lack of a interview process and the ridiculous annual salary that JVS is on ($750k?), I think its fair to say that CFG thought he was a great coach and were desperate to keep him in Melbourne (the stability factor probably helped at bit too). I assume there wasn't any performance based element to the contract because CFG haven't shown that sort of diligence, foresight or attention to detail in any coaching appointment they have made at Melbourne City. Often, performance based contracts for coaches have an option for another year or 2 if certain criteria were met, from what I understand, JVS's contract does not.

 

I assume that he has kept his job (at least in part) because no-one at CFG wants to admit that they wasted over $2m of the Melbourne City budget on a dud coach and that they should've conducted more thorough process.

[n i k o]

forum.melbourne.com decision making process > CFG decision making process 

[KSK_47]

2 hours ago, n i k o said:

forum.melbourne.com decision making process > CFG decision making process 

In our defense, we wanted JVS gone and they signed him on a three year contract so you could make a pretty convincing case your statement is actually correct

[bt50]

1 hour ago, KSK_47 said:

In our defense, we wanted JVS gone and they signed him on a three year contract so you could make a pretty convincing case your statement is actually correct

Don't think thats true. JVS was signed on the back of a 7 match unbeaten streak, off the back of the Aloisi streak. Most of us werent really off JVS again until mid next season when we started 1-3-4

[KSK_47]

1 hour ago, bt50 said:

Don't think thats true. JVS was signed on the back of a 7 match unbeaten streak, off the back of the Aloisi streak. Most of us werent really off JVS again until mid next season when we started 1-3-4

I was joking man. I dont seriously think the collective wisdom of this forum come close to the knowledge cfg have of the football industry

[Donald]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 11:57 PM, n i k o said:

I'm ecstatic with the result but just with regard to JVS I'll be impressed when he takes us to a title at the end of a season. 

Let's hope this happens so you are impressed but more importantly so we win the title. Now that is what we all agree on as the number one most important aim outcome. We win the title, JvS leaves and another manager comes in to be mocked on this board!

[KSK_47]

11 minutes ago, Donald said:

Now that is what we all agree on as the number one most important aim outcome. We win the title, JvS leaves and another manager comes in

This is pretty much the way I see it.

If the next manager becomes the 4th most experienced coach in league history with a 33% win ratio and it takes him 5 seasons to win something I am sure he will be mocked. And rightly so. Along with anyone that defends him 

[Alexxxandro]

20 hours ago, Donald said:

Let's hope this happens so you are impressed but more importantly so we win the title. Now that is what we all agree on as the number one most important aim outcome. We win the title, JvS leaves and another manager comes in to be mocked on this board!

Please stick your head up on this thread every now and then and remind us in your condescending way of how level headed and mature you are and how childish we are. That would be tops. Thanks!

 

[n i k o]

21 hours ago, Donald said:

Let's hope this happens so you are impressed but more importantly so we win the title. Now that is what we all agree on as the number one most important aim outcome. We win the title, JvS leaves and another manager comes in to be mocked on this board!

Welcome back to the forum. Your hiatus won't help everyone to forget your defense of JVS rests solely on a single trophy he won a week ago. 

[moops]

On 05/12/2016 at 6:35 PM, KSK_47 said:

We have seen these types of positive "changes" in jvs before though. Unfortunately they only seemed to last as long as there was pressure on him. Once he was safe all the old crap returned. 

I agree mate, I think he should be replaced, I just found it very different to his normal self, I think the players are rubbing off on him tbh.

[Tony999]

How come no ones bumped this? I guess it just gets too repetitive and ppl just cbf anymore.

[n i k o]

@Donald .........waiting......