Les Murray on Melbourne Heart

[Ando]

Aside from Kennett's neoliberal agenda when in power, I've found his charity work to be quite ok, and what ever he's done at Hawthorn he's done it well.

"Supra political theory"? Cadete pls

[cadete]

Aside from Kennett's neoliberal agenda when in power, I've found his charity work to be quite ok, and what ever he's done at Hawthorn he's done it well.

"Supra political theory"? Cadete pls

I was referring to your DP, and your Forum Status on here for all to see...

And the fact that the Supras Guru is a member of a certain Minor Australian Politcal Party that's all...

Edited December 12, 2012 by cadete

[Ando]

We are all gurus, my friend.

[United]

Building a club with tradition takes time. The passionate and true supporters of the Red and White, and particulary the regulars on this very forum, are part of something special...we are by and large responsible for how Heart evolve and will have a huge hand in the ultimate success of the club.

In years to come, a Heart membership will be worth its weight in gold, like MCC memberships...

In the meantime we need to stick by the club and keep being true supporters.

I would also love for the supporters to come up with a crowd activity that becomes a part of the fabric of the club...Liverpool have their song, West Ham have their bubbles, what is there for us? Any ideas??

Litter the yarraside with confetti/streamers like i mentioned in the attendances thread i think. Sea of red and white.

[Melburnian]

Aside from Kennett's neoliberal agenda when in power, I've found his charity work to be quite ok, and what ever he's done at Hawthorn he's done it well.

"Supra political theory"? Cadete pls

Kennett for all his political faults is a doer. This club needs more doers.

[Mentor]

Are you suggesting we get Jeff as a board member?

If you'll excuse me, I need to go and sleep now. I've had a Kennett of a day.

FWIW Kennett is actually is a fan of soccer and under his guidance he turned Hawthorn from a Club with Some Potential to a Membership Giant.

Then there are also his efforts in setting up Beyond Blue:

One of the best things to ever happen for Mental Health in this country and a blueprint for tackling the issue worldwide.

Politics aside, nobody can claim that the guy has not proven himself as a very strong and successful promoter.

I bloody hate Hawthorn but I could think of lot worse board members to help get this club moving than Jeff.

(This being even if does he not fit it in with your Supra Political Theory.)

Not a hawthorn man either, or like them much ect

But Kennet is behind only Eddie maguire in my eyes as the influential President.

Did great things at Hawthorn, turned them around, talk crap which gets them in the papers ect all the time, Has that inverse suit jacket is always in the media i would think something like that would be quite clever tbh, wont happen though

MHFC has to be a long journey the fact that MV were given exclusive rights to Melbourne is silly form the start, WS/Syd and MV/MH should have been teh backbone of this league imo plus brisbane, perth and Adelaide.

But the FFA stuffed this up, come on handing out licenses to CCM and Newcastle before second teams in the major capitals was so dumb in my eyes, these are the rivalries which could have started it all, now MH are so far behind the 8 ball it is sad, Melbourne could have been split right down the middle in a sense 50/50 red and blue would have been such a big atmosphere now this looks like a distant dream

[Liberta per gli FB.]

Cannot believe what I'm reading.

Kennett would probably have us merge with Green Gully Cavilers and have us play half our games down in Geelong.

He is a long time support of relocations and mergers, in fact if he had his way in 1996 Hawthorn would have been voted out of existence. He has done well with the Hawks primarily because he managed to ransom the Tasmanian government up with a ridiculous deal for them to play a 3rd of their home games down there. Hardly the kind of approach I'd want him to apply to Heart.

And if memory serves me correctly, it was under his watch that the Docklands Stadium project (which was originally intended to be the state's first rectangular stadium) was allowed to be hijacked by the AFL and converted into a footy oval, which probably set the game back here about 5-10 years.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Liberta per gli FB.

[cadete]

Cannot believe what I'm reading.

Kennett would probably have us merge with Green Gully Cavilers and have us play half our games down in Geelong.

Seems highly unlikely, esp the part about MHFC merging with a VPL club with a few pokies machines but a very limited support base.

He is a long time support of relocations and mergers, in fact if he had his way in 1996 Hawthorn would have been voted out of existence. He has done well with the Hawks primarily because he managed to ransom the Tasmanian government up with a ridiculous deal for them to play a 3rd of their home games down there. Hardly the kind of approach I'd want him to apply to Heart.

What if such a move is the difference between our club staying afloat or simple dying?

And if memory serves me correctly, it was under his watch that the Docklands Stadium project (which was originally intended to be the state's first rectangular stadium) was allowed to be hijacked by the AFL and converted into a footy oval, which probably set the game back here about 5-10 years.

This is more an example of exactly the kind of influence Jeff could bring to MHFC more than anything else.

Edited December 13, 2012 by cadete

[Liberta per gli FB.]

If you actually favour Heart being merged out of existence, or playing half our games interstate then you're a far different supporter to what I thought you were.

[bazzatron]

Cant the seating at Etihad be converted into a rectangle anyway?

[Che]

He is a long time support of relocations and mergers, in fact if he had his way in 1996 Hawthorn would have been voted out of existence. He has done well with the Hawks primarily because he managed to ransom the Tasmanian government up with a ridiculous deal for them to play a 3rd of their home games down there. Hardly the kind of approach I'd want him to apply to Heart.

Play half the games in Canberra

[Jimmy]

I'd be fine with a third of the games in Geelong. Less of a drive for me

[cadete]

If you actually favour Heart being merged out of existence, or playing half our games interstate then you're a far different supporter to what I thought you were.

Lets not get precious here Chocolates...

We are not talking about the clubs I support that have existed for decades before I was born such as GFC, The Borough or Celtic we are talking are about a club playing its third season.

And TBH if it was a choice between us playing in Geelong or us not even existing then I would be more than prepared to pay for a Vline ticket every second week.

Also please dont call into question the type of Heart Supporter I am:

As we both know my actions speak for themselves...

Edited December 13, 2012 by cadete

[kontra.11]

Then there are also his efforts in setting up Beyond Blue:

One of the best things to ever happen for Mental Health in this country and a blueprint for tackling the issue worldwide.

pfft...this after he totally slashed and burned mental health services when he was premier leaving a massive shortage that hasn't really recovered since. Then he recently becomes director at a casino and doesn't think there is a link between gambling and depression. Mental health advocate my ass!

He must have had some kind of personal experience that led him to the beyond blue stuff but the guy has no idea and is full of contradictions..

I would give my membership back if he ever became involved with the club.

[belaguttman]

Cannot believe what I'm reading.

Kennett would probably have us merge with Green Gully Cavilers and have us play half our games down in Geelong.

He is a long time support of relocations and mergers, in fact if he had his way in 1996 Hawthorn would have been voted out of existence. He has done well with the Hawks primarily because he managed to ransom the Tasmanian government up with a ridiculous deal for them to play a 3rd of their home games down there. Hardly the kind of approach I'd want him to apply to Heart.

And if memory serves me correctly, it was under his watch that the Docklands Stadium project (which was originally intended to be the state's first rectangular stadium) was allowed to be hijacked by the AFL and converted into a footy oval, which probably set the game back here about 5-10 years.

Exactly, if Kennett did to our club what he has really done to mental health then we'd really be finished. Having that buffoon running Beyond Blue is as ironic as putting the Burke and Wills statues over a fountain

Edited December 13, 2012 by belaguttman

[mulhollanddrive]

First thing to sort out Melbourne Heart, is getting this forum to run properly on mozilla!

[Caddy]

Cannot believe what I'm reading.

Kennett would probably have us merge with Green Gully Cavilers and have us play half our games down in Geelong.

He is a long time support of relocations and mergers, in fact if he had his way in 1996 Hawthorn would have been voted out of existence. He has done well with the Hawks primarily because he managed to ransom the Tasmanian government up with a ridiculous deal for them to play a 3rd of their home games down there. Hardly the kind of approach I'd want him to apply to Heart.

And if memory serves me correctly, it was under his watch that the Docklands Stadium project (which was originally intended to be the state's first rectangular stadium) was allowed to be hijacked by the AFL and converted into a footy oval, which probably set the game back here about 5-10 years.

Exactly, if Kennett did to our club what he has really done to mental health then we'd really be finished. Having that buffoon running Beyond Blue is as ironic as putting the Burke and Wills statues over a fountain

This hypothetical scenario is depressing.

[Che]

Cannot believe what I'm reading.

Kennett would probably have us merge with Green Gully Cavilers and have us play half our games down in Geelong.

He is a long time support of relocations and mergers, in fact if he had his way in 1996 Hawthorn would have been voted out of existence. He has done well with the Hawks primarily because he managed to ransom the Tasmanian government up with a ridiculous deal for them to play a 3rd of their home games down there. Hardly the kind of approach I'd want him to apply to Heart.

And if memory serves me correctly, it was under his watch that the Docklands Stadium project (which was originally intended to be the state's first rectangular stadium) was allowed to be hijacked by the AFL and converted into a footy oval, which probably set the game back here about 5-10 years.

Exactly, if Kennett did to our club what he has really done to mental health then we'd really be finished. Having that buffoon running Beyond Blue is as ironic as putting the Burke and Wills statues over a fountain

I hate Jeff Kennett as much as the next guy, but he has been extremely good for Beyond Blue and mental health in general.

..why are we even talking about Jeff Kennet running the club?

[bt50]

The media would have us believe that all is dire but really our attendances are actually growing and I think interest in Heart is at an all time high. It's easy for people to look at our crowds and say we are not doing any good but most will compare them to AFL crowds and to be honest, that sort of figures will never occur in Melbourne.

The problem Heart have and were ALWAYS going to have is that Victory got first bite at the apple. Anyone that had a mild or greater interest in soccer were instantly going to follow the Victory when they were started. Most Aussies are fairly loyal to their clubs and won't simply change teams (unless you are under the age of 10 maybe) and most of the ones that followed the Victory originally are going to be Victory supporters til they die.

The market Heart were left with primarily were those that had never given the ALeague or soccer much thought and then those that were disenfranchised with Victory. There would be very few imo that would fall into this category.

What Heart need to do is appeal to those who have previously not followed soccer, or at least Australian soccer. I'm an AFL man first and foremost but began following Everton about 7 or 8 years ago and never had any interest in ALeague until a mate offered me to come down to a game v Gold Coast in Heart's first season. I enjoyed it but only had a passing interest until I decided to attend a derby when i was hammered one night about 6 months later. I got amongst the Yarraside for a bit of a laugh and loved it, bought a shirt and all.

Since then I signed as a 5 game member last year and then a full member this year. Saturday is the first game in Melbourne I've missed this year (work break up) but I regularly try to bring a mate or two or even the missus if I have to but they are at least all taking interest in Heart now and would probably call themselves Heart supporters, just as I was at the GC game. Perhaps they'll sign as members next year, who knows??

My point being that we just need to focus on getting as many people to come along as possible and show them a good time when they come. It won't be instant 10,000 crowds but it will happen over time if they enjoy it.

We are on a good thing and I don't think the club is doing a bad job, they just need all the help they can at developing and converting members. Welcome everyone and especially important, try and bring mates that don't foillow soccer as much as possible!

[Caddy]

Cannot believe what I'm reading.

Kennett would probably have us merge with Green Gully Cavilers and have us play half our games down in Geelong.

He is a long time support of relocations and mergers, in fact if he had his way in 1996 Hawthorn would have been voted out of existence. He has done well with the Hawks primarily because he managed to ransom the Tasmanian government up with a ridiculous deal for them to play a 3rd of their home games down there. Hardly the kind of approach I'd want him to apply to Heart.

And if memory serves me correctly, it was under his watch that the Docklands Stadium project (which was originally intended to be the state's first rectangular stadium) was allowed to be hijacked by the AFL and converted into a footy oval, which probably set the game back here about 5-10 years.

Exactly, if Kennett did to our club what he has really done to mental health then we'd really be finished. Having that buffoon running Beyond Blue is as ironic as putting the Burke and Wills statues over a fountain

I hate Jeff Kennett as much as the next guy, but he has been extremely good for Beyond Blue and mental health in general.

..why are we even talking about Jeff Kennet running the club?

Except if you're gay, which I imagine makes up a large number of beyondblue calls.

[willo]

First of all, sack Les Murray.

Secondly, TBH given the size of Melbourne, having geographical distinctions between the two teams would have probably been good, but thats not how its unfolded. You cant just move the club now and screw over a large part of the supporter base, and TBH I dont think our clubs survival relies on a geographical distinction. Win some games and the bandwagoners will come, while the community work our club puts in will pay off in the future and also lead to more fans.

We are here because the FFA and the owners of Melbourne Heart have stated from the beginning that they believe Melbourne is able to have two sustainable A-league teams and I agree with them too.

Melbourne is able to sustain 20 teams, the market is there, our club just fails to tap into it.

The club itself is still not active enough in the media, promoting itself, it's players, etc. As the new kids on the block, Heart does have to work harder and it does need to win games to get itself some airtime amongst the white noise of the other mob, the oxymorons. It's not necessarily about bandwagon jumpers - I don't want them - they don't stick around anyway, by definition.

Another salient point which a few other mates raised during/after ;ast week's game......the club isn't necessarily delivering on some of the pillars/cornerstones upon which the club was set up and sold to the people of Melbourne, community work aside. We certainly played more attractive football under van't Schip. How much more attractive?? I dunno, but certainly enough.

[tachycardia]

Won't somebody please think of the children?

[Che]

Except if you're gay, which I imagine makes up a large number of beyondblue calls.

Yep, one of Beyondblue's most well known advertising campaigns isn't targeted at helping gay youths and improving awareness of thei mental health issues.

Anyway off topic. A coworker today - a vucktree fan - suggested we just get taken over by Ajax like his native Ajax Cape Town. I told him to fuck off.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Che

[Caddy]

Except if you're gay, which I imagine makes up a large number of beyondblue calls.

Yep, one of Beyondblue's most well known advertising campaigns isn't targeted at helping gay youths and improving awareness of thei mental health issues.

Anyway off topic. A coworker today - a vucktree fan - suggested we just get taken over by Ajax like his native Ajax Cape Town. I told him to fuck off.

I'm not bagging beyondblue, they do great work, I'm bagging Kennett and his irresponsible comments a few years back.

[Che]

fair enough, but he's gotten far better in that regard recently.

[biancorosso7]

Surely the Club and the League did bucket loads of research into the potential different markets available for tapping into.

But shouldn't the Club look around the world for two teams in the one city and see their differentials and why people support one team over the other. Examples would be:

- Inter v AC Milan

- Juventus v Torino

- Roma v Lazio

- Athletico v Real Madrid

- City v United

[cadete]

Surely the Club and the League did bucket loads of research into the potential different markets available for tapping into.

But shouldn't the Club look around the world for two teams in the one city and see their differentials and why people support one team over the other. Examples would be:

- Inter v AC Milan

- Juventus v Torino

- Roma v Lazio

- Athletico v Real Madrid

- City v United

Why?

What has Rome or Manchester got to do with Australia?

Clearly research into the people of Melbourne is going to be more valuable than why some Spainard supports Athletico over Real.

[biancorosso7]

Surely the Club and the League did bucket loads of research into the potential different markets available for tapping into.

But shouldn't the Club look around the world for two teams in the one city and see their differentials and why people support one team over the other. Examples would be:

- Inter v AC Milan

- Juventus v Torino

- Roma v Lazio

- Athletico v Real Madrid

- City v United

Why?

What has Rome or Manchester got to do with Australia?

Clearly research into the people of Melbourne is going to be more valuable than why some Spainard supports Athletico over Real.

Well they are all examples of 2 teams existing in the one city with large and enthusicatic supporter bases. Surely we can look at them to learn about product differentiation and appealing to the other market.

[kontra.11]

Hate terms like market and products. Those rivalries are built on tradition and a very long period of time and have very much changed over that time.

And in those rivalries, it is mostly the fans that have made the point of difference, not the clubs manufacturing it..

The Sydney derby is naturally different because of the geographical difference but I for one am thankful that Melbourne doesn't have that kind of divide in our city. Makes for a good football derby, but a shit and divided city..

[babislak]

Australia and football has offered a lot to Les. He's been taking, taking, taking. He has given nothing back. Dont comment on our Heart or Melbourne Les. Stick to Sydney with your mates.

[Heart of Melbourne]

Yeah Les, Shut the Effen up. Red or Dead.

[Guido]

The fans will come, remember that ever since the the club started they have been putting the groundwork into the community and the kids. The positive signs from this work will become a lot more evident in 10 years or so. Sure it's a long wait, but these are the long term supporters we are targeting in order to be sustainable into the future.

[guardianofthevalley]

I had a friend of mine say, "Heart is Victory mark II. The only difference is one wears red and the other wears blue, that is all." Both clubs are marketed to the same people. I fear Les is right. Already Western Sydney have surpassed the heart in support and atmosphere at the ground. Why? There is a clear distinction between the clubs and supporter groups, the silvertails of Bling FC v the working class Westies. It works, because they target different supporter groups, and divide the city between them. Heart have failed to do that. Our identity is "we are not them" whoever "them" are. Victory train at Monash, we train at Latrobe. It's logical then that we should have targeted the Northern Suburbs, north and west of the Yarra, i.e divide the city in two. That means we also get Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo. Shepparton, play pre-season matches in these towns and places like Epping and Sunshine. We can then concentrate our clinics in these areas as well. Then we too can have one support group from the "treeless plains" v another from the "leafy.hills " and divide the city. Right now, it is embarrassing that we are well outnumbered at our home game. In ten years time Western Sydney will be the biggest, or second biggest club in Australia, so why not Heart?

[Grimey]

And in those rivalries, it is mostly the fans that have made the point of difference, not the clubs manufacturing it..

Very true, friend.

[Freeze Time]

Heart should be based in the west. Biggest growth area.

[natalie182]

When I was at my family Xmas the other day I talked a bit about the ALeague with two of my uncles. They are mostly AFL fans, although one has been to a few ALeague games, even Heart games with me. When I mention being a Heart supporter, both of them are like 'oh, I don't follow it that closely, but I guess I'm a Victory supporter' This is obviously because Victory were first, or get more media coverage, or win more games.

I think the club needs to do something to get these casual supporters to Heart. Winning games isn't happening, so we need something else. Just not sure what!

[guardianofthevalley]

I think the clubs strivings to work with the community and the larger football community is actually the very thing that sets us apart from the "big" club that is Melbourne Victory, because let's face it, they are big and we will never get to that size. So to me being the community club much like a North Melbourne and Western Bulldogs in the AFL is perfect.

The club already does the work, it just needs to get better at showing off this aspect of the club and entrench it in the way that people talk about the club. I have noticed that the youtube videos have dropped off this year which is a perfect way to show some of the work that the club is doing in the community. Just assure that it is done in a non exploitative and tokenistic manner.

Being someone that worked closely in the sports sector, Melbourne Victory did nothing and still probably do nothing in reaching out to the community such as schools and so on. The best, and this was before Heart were around, was Melbourne Storm and look at how their support base has grown, despite being cheats.

So what you are saying is that we are happy to be a small, niche club, that doesn't win anything? The problem with remaining small is that advertisers and sponsors will no longer provide support. Western Bulldogs and North Melbourne struggle to find sponsors, Collingwood turns them away. If we continue to have 5000 crowds and 6000 members (including many phantom junior members given away as part of the family membership), will Westpac be as willing to sponsor the club come next agreement? Westpac and the like are not benevolent institutions. We need to get large to match Victory for crowds and members. I want to be bigger than victory. We must think big, act big and spend big to become big. Trying to get David Beckham was a good short term move, but we need to do much more. A lot of heart members want us to be an exclusive, niche club. Whilst it may make us feel good, it will not be good for us long term. The old NSL was full of exclusive niche clubs, who also drew 5000 crowds.

[Melburnian]

I think the clubs strivings to work with the community and the larger football community is actually the very thing that sets us apart from the "big" club that is Melbourne Victory, because let's face it, they are big and we will never get to that size. So to me being the community club much like a North Melbourne and Western Bulldogs in the AFL is perfect.

The club already does the work, it just needs to get better at showing off this aspect of the club and entrench it in the way that people talk about the club. I have noticed that the youtube videos have dropped off this year which is a perfect way to show some of the work that the club is doing in the community. Just assure that it is done in a non exploitative and tokenistic manner.

Being someone that worked closely in the sports sector, Melbourne Victory did nothing and still probably do nothing in reaching out to the community such as schools and so on. The best, and this was before Heart were around, was Melbourne Storm and look at how their support base has grown, despite being cheats.

So what you are saying is that we are happy to be a small, niche club, that doesn't win anything? The problem with remaining small is that advertisers and sponsors will no longer provide support. Western Bulldogs and North Melbourne struggle to find sponsors, Collingwood turns them away. If we continue to have 5000 crowds and 6000 members (including many phantom junior members given away as part of the family membership), will Westpac be as willing to sponsor the club come next agreement? Westpac and the like are not benevolent institutions. We need to get large to match Victory for crowds and members. I want to be bigger than victory. We must think big, act big and spend big to become big. Trying to get David Beckham was a good short term move, but we need to do much more. A lot of heart members want us to be an exclusive, niche club. Whilst it may make us feel good, it will not be good for us long term. The old NSL was full of exclusive niche clubs, who also drew 5000 crowds.

Well said.

Problem with your and my thinking on this is the people at the club have small mindset and don't think like this. They don't believe we can be bigger than Victory and are happy being mediocre.

Until we rid ourselves from these small minded, excuse driven people our club will continue to be small.

Have a look how this club operates. Everything it does says small.

Doesn't conduct itself like a big club. Until questions are asked about the people employed at the club, nothing will change.

People talking about slow build etc have their head in the sand and are hopeful rather than realistic. You want the support go out and fucking get it. Cut the excuses crap there is plenty of people to target.

I felt when I started supporting this club it could be bigger than any and believed it. Right now I question it for the first time as I have no faith in the people in charge.

It's a disgrace the attitude of these people. Small minded, excuse driven people.

[guardianofthevalley]

The fans will come, remember that ever since the the club started they have been putting the groundwork into the community and the kids. The positive signs from this work will become a lot more evident in 10 years or so. Sure it's a long wait, but these are the long term supporters we are targeting in order to be sustainable into the future.

In the mean time, why not get the "theatre goers" to our games.

[Freeze Time]

I don't think the league will survive let alone our club