Domestic Politics

[Jimmy]

46 minutes ago, Pigs 2 said:

If this was America and someone asked me which political party I supported I would say libertarian. Are there any parties that have the same sort of values as the American libertarian party in Australia? 

 

I also think Gary Johnson is a fuckwit just for the record 

 

26 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

The liberal democrats - if you like them you'll fit in just fine here

Yep. LDP. Like Tesla has said, 50% of the LDP voter base posts in this thread so it's a safe space for you.

http://ldp.org.au

http://davidleyonhjelm.com.au

https://www.facebook.com/LDP.australia/

[Tesla]

Nah you cunts are definitely trolling me now, LDP barely got any votes in Victoria but half the regular posters in this thread apparently are libertarians.

[n i k o]

39 minutes ago, Tesla said:

Nah you cunts are definitely trolling me now, LDP barely got any votes in Victoria but half the regular posters in this thread apparently are libertarians.

Maybe they are the few that voted for them. What are the odds ey.

[Pigs 2]

I'm not trollin ya man I've looked at this thread like once and it was just a bunch of shit I didn't care or know about 

[Tesla]

Speaking of trolling, I see the forum's favourite senator is off to a flying start in his new term.

This section 18C shit even beats the time he showed the Greens don't care about same sex marriage  

[marn11]

1 hour ago, Tesla said:

Speaking of trolling, I see the forum's favourite senator is off to a flying start in his new term.

This section 18C shit even beats the time he showed the Greens don't care about same sex marriage  

Was waiting for someone to address this. So glad he's back.

[thisphantomfortress]

I wonder if @bt50s erection has gone down yet after hearing about the s18C stuff?

[hedaik]

The guys a dickhead. How is making a complaint that won't succeed prove anything? He's just proving to the world he has no idea about the law he's whinging about. 

If Bill Leaks cartoons are fine under the law (and for the record I don't think his most recent cartoon was racist), then why does this dickhead think being called an angry white male won't be?

Edited August 16, 2016 by hedaik

[bt50]

2 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

I wonder if @bt50s erection has gone down yet after hearing about the s18C stuff?

Gonna be real honest and say i had absolutely no idea what s18c was.

But yeh lel

[cadete]

On 8/10/2016 at 10:44 PM, Tesla said:

Nah you cunts are definitely trolling me now, LDP barely got any votes in Victoria but half the regular posters in this thread apparently are libertarians.

On 8/10/2016 at 11:24 PM, n i k o said:

Maybe they are the few that voted for them. What are the odds ey.

I would not vote LDP anyway but just say they did represent my views more than one of the Major Parties, I would still to stick with voting for a party that actually can form Government instead of wasting my vote.

 

[thisphantomfortress]

54 minutes ago, cadete said:

I would not vote LDP anyway but just say they did represent my views more than one of the Major Parties, I would still to stick with voting for a party that actually can form Government instead of wasting my vote.

 

This attitude is what keeps the corrupt and inept major parties in power 

1 hour ago, bt50 said:

Gonna be real honest and say i had absolutely no idea what s18c was.

But yeh lel

Tl;dr proving you can be racist to white people. BigoT50 loves white rights 

[bt50]

3 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

This attitude is what keeps the corrupt and inept major parties in power 

True. Buts its also a recipe for an inept and indecisive government when in power, thus condemning us to an uninspiring and bleak future.

3 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Tl;dr proving you can be racist to white people. BigoT50 loves white rights 

 

Edited August 17, 2016 by bt50

[cadete]

13 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

This attitude is what keeps the corrupt and inept major parties in power 

The way I see it is that Australia's best potential politicians are not going to mess around in the Political Parties of The Bush Leagues when they know they can have an impact in a Party that plays in the Big Time. (It's like how you never see people that were popular at school become involved in Revolutionary Politics or Greens Candidates - Why would they need to want to change a system that is clearly working for them.)

I am also unapologetic in my support of the Two Party System as everyone here would know by now. Of course I know its not perfect and I agree seeing two major parties that are so similar bickering all the time is annoying but at the end of day it makes the Major Parties meet in the middle ground to win elections which is the best representation of its people that Ia Modern Government can achieve.

Also if PPL decided to suddenly ignore the Libs and voted LDP then the LDP would just take the role of the Libs in meeting the ALP in the middle ground at elections to try win Government. In fact likewise even if the Greens replaced the ALP as the major left party they would do the same to win power.

The beauty of Australian Politics is not in the Parties themselves but what the Constitution forces them to do in order to seek power. That's my long held cynical view on things after I witnessed Rudd anyway.

Edited August 17, 2016 by cadete

[Jimmy]

I struggle to see how you can "waste" your vote in Australia anyway. Putting LDP at 1 and Libs at 2 is effectively going to be exactly the same as putting Libs at 1 most of the time.

I do agree with the idea that people with potential wouldn't waste their time with minor parties and that the two party system provides the stability that is needed to effectively govern. But, if a couple LDP senators can result in legislation having a slightly more Classical Liberal edge, then I'm happy.

[GreenSeater]

11 hours ago, Tesla said:

Speaking of trolling, I see the forum's favourite senator is off to a flying start in his new term.

This section 18C shit even beats the time he showed the Greens don't care about same sex marriage  

I disagree with him on a lot of things, but this is something I actually appreciate. Whilst I'm certainly not a racist and I still thing racism should be condemned, I think that basing a law on something as subjective as whether or not somebody is offended is pretty stupid.

[hedaik]

14 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

I disagree with him on a lot of things, but this is something I actually appreciate. Whilst I'm certainly not a racist and I still thing racism should be condemned, I think that basing a law on something as subjective as whether or not somebody is offended is pretty stupid.

Isn't a lot of law based upon a 'reasonable person' which is also completely subjective? 

[Tesla]

5 hours ago, hedaik said:

The guys a dickhead. How is making a complaint that won't succeed prove anything? He's just proving to the world he has no idea about the law he's whinging about. 

If Bill Leaks cartoons are fine under the law (and for the record I don't think his most recent cartoon was racist), then why does this dickhead think being called an angry white male won't be?

While his actions would be more effective if it were to succeed, since it would show just how broken the law is, I think it's still worthwhile either way.

Drawing more attention to the issue which was meant to be fixed by Abbott before it became just one of many broken election promises, highlights a valid point that if you replace white with any other skin colour there would be a twitter meltdown from the SJWs, apparently the reason it will fail as per a quote from a HRC insider in one of the articles I read is because "white people can't be offended" lol ffs, if this does fail and a similar complaint from a different race gets up then it clearly highlights the bias in the system (if previous cases don't already show this), etc.

Let's not forget the reason 18C became an issue in the first place is because Andrew Bolt was found to have breached the law over comments you could hardly call racist, comments that were as trivial as the ones made about DL, it's a shit law that needs to be fixed in the interests of freedom of speech.

In my opinion nothing someone says/writes/etc should be illegal (though of course civil repercussions for slander/libel should exist). Freedom of speech/expression is the single most important issue in a democratic society, so DL is far from being a dickhead, seems to me he is doing more to earn his salary than anyone else in parliament. Without freedom of speech we might as well just give up on democracy. The less freedom of speech there is, the more every other freedom and right is violated, until democracy is completely eroded anyway. No one has a 'right to not be offended', but the UN human rights declaration says we should all have a right to freedom of speech, even if our current laws don't support it.

The biggest irony of all this is that the Human Rights Commission is whom these complaints are made to, when the HRC is supposed to be ensuring Australia's observance of international human rights conventions like the UN Human Rights Declaration. I'd argue 18C is in breech of a number of articles of this declaration.

[hedaik]

1 hour ago, Tesla said:

 

Let's not forget the reason 18C became an issue in the first place is because Andrew Bolt was found to have breached the law over comments you could hardly call racist, comments that were as trivial as the ones made about DL, it's a shit law that needs to be fixed in the interests of freedom of speech.

 

Bolt lost his court case because there were major errors in his story that he was presenting as fact, if he didnt lie like he does in most of his articles then there wouldn't be an issue with what he wrote.  

18D still allows people to be offended with the use of factual information, a shit joke or for simply stating an opinion

Quote

Exemptions

                   Section 18C does not render unlawful anything said or done reasonably and in good faith:

                     (a)  in the performance, exhibition or distribution of an artistic work; or

                     (b)  in the course of any statement, publication, discussion or debate made or held for any genuine academic, artistic or scientific purpose or any other genuine purpose in the public interest; or

                     (c)  in making or publishing:

                              (i)  a fair and accurate report of any event or matter of public interest; or

                             (ii)  a fair comment on any event or matter of public interest if the comment is an expression of a genuine belief held by the person making the comment.

The fact that King Billy Cokebottle was taken to court under 18C and the case was dismissed as being a creative work indicates to me that the law is working fine and just illustrates that this LDP guy has no idea if he thinks being called an angry white male is going to succeed. 

And as I said before, the law hasn't stopped cartoons like the below being allowed to appear which I find to be in fairly bad taste

Edited August 17, 2016 by hedaik

[Tesla]

5 hours ago, hedaik said:

The fact that King Billy Cokebottle was taken to court under 18C and the case was dismissed as being a creative work indicates to me that the law is working fine and just illustrates that this LDP guy has no idea if he thinks being called an angry white male is going to succeed. 

 

I'd be surprised if he actually expected to win the case.

 

[thisphantomfortress]

Local council elections soon. #gethype

[hedaik]

17 minutes ago, Tesla said:

I'd be surprised if he actually expected to win the case.

 

Which is why I don't think he understands the law. The fact it will most certainly fail will just show that 18C doesn't stop what he thinks it does. 

[NewConvert]

15 hours ago, hedaik said:

Bolt lost his court case because there were major errors in his story that he was presenting as fact, if he didnt lie like he does in most of his articles then there wouldn't be an issue with what he wrote.  

18D still allows people to be offended with the use of factual information, a shit joke or for simply stating an opinion

The fact that King Billy Cokebottle was taken to court under 18C and the case was dismissed as being a creative work indicates to me that the law is working fine and just illustrates that this LDP guy has no idea if he thinks being called an angry white male is going to succeed. 

And as I said before, the law hasn't stopped cartoons like the below being allowed to appear which I find to be in fairly bad taste

I would also add that Bolt's legal team did not use section 18D and that Bolt's defence team conceded  that because he was such a busy man that he did not check whether what he wrote had any basis in fact.

[NewConvert]

16 hours ago, Tesla said:

While his actions would be more effective if it were to succeed, since it would show just how broken the law is, I think it's still worthwhile either way.

Drawing more attention to the issue which was meant to be fixed by Abbott before it became just one of many broken election promises, highlights a valid point that if you replace white with any other skin colour there would be a twitter meltdown from the SJWs, apparently the reason it will fail as per a quote from a HRC insider in one of the articles I read is because "white people can't be offended" lol ffs, if this does fail and a similar complaint from a different race gets up then it clearly highlights the bias in the system (if previous cases don't already show this), etc.

Let's not forget the reason 18C became an issue in the first place is because Andrew Bolt was found to have breached the law over comments you could hardly call racist, comments that were as trivial as the ones made about DL, it's a shit law that needs to be fixed in the interests of freedom of speech.

In my opinion nothing someone says/writes/etc should be illegal (though of course civil repercussions for slander/libel should exist). Freedom of speech/expression is the single most important issue in a democratic society, so DL is far from being a dickhead, seems to me he is doing more to earn his salary than anyone else in parliament. Without freedom of speech we might as well just give up on democracy. The less freedom of speech there is, the more every other freedom and right is violated, until democracy is completely eroded anyway. No one has a 'right to not be offended', but the UN human rights declaration says we should all have a right to freedom of speech, even if our current laws don't support it.

The biggest irony of all this is that the Human Rights Commission is whom these complaints are made to, when the HRC is supposed to be ensuring Australia's observance of international human rights conventions like the UN Human Rights Declaration. I'd argue 18C is in breech of a number of articles of this declaration.

Quoting someone only reflects what that person thinks - not what the law or the courts state/accept. That would be like quoting ayone on this forum as being absolute authorities on all things football (except for Murfy of course).

So calling for murder/arson (read Stalin) should not be illegal? hmmm. Also slander/libel law are particularly onerous in this country putting us at the bottom six of nations.

I would say the right to representation is the single most important issue - that is why so many dictators try to have a figleaf of representation - refer to Democratic People's Republic of Korea or their patron China.

Freedom of speech is crucial to any functioning society but as many South American nations found to their cost allowing unfettered freedom of speech without recourse formented the brutal right wing dictatorships of the 70s. Also Thailand has experienced a similar problem in the last 15 years. Try and watch a documentary on Goebbels - the father of modern political propaganda and advertising.

With your winnings from gambling you could try and take this issue with the High Court and see whether your opinion is correct.

[Jimmy]

TTIM: The lefties paying out Malcolm for giving some homeless bloke $5. It's like they want me to hate them.

[Tesla]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

TTIM: The lefties paying out Malcolm for giving some homeless bloke $5. It's like they want me to hate them.

Should have given nothing TBH, there is no winning doing that in front of the cameras. Give $5 look like a cheap cunt, give $100 looks like he is putting on a show for the cameras.

It's okay anyway, the majority of people despise the homeless, almost as much as they despise dole bludgers.

Though they despise the rich more than both, so maybe it's not okay.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Tesla

[hedaik]

Would I be right to assume that most of the homeless are the same junkie cunts that are breaking into cars?

I need to be able to justify my hatred for the homeless to myself somehow. 

[cadete]

56 minutes ago, hedaik said:

Would I be right to assume that most of the homeless are the same junkie cunts that are breaking into cars?

I need to be able to justify my hatred for the homeless to myself somehow. 

Just sit outside The Gimp for five minutes and you will have enough Justification...

"Hi Guys, do any of you have any spare change for a room..." etc etc

I had one pot there yesterday as I was killing time before I picked up my partner and had three PPL came up to me with the dumbest rehearsed stories I have ever heard. I am so more inclined to give someone money if they dont tell me a story about needing to get to the Hospital or Interstate to see a loved one.

Not only that I remember being amazed at the amount of Beggars in Western Europe in 2001 and having just got back from there again this week  I can now safely say Melbourne has just as many beggars now and far more that will try to aggressively approach you and try stand over you when you are sitting down outside.

[n i k o]

Many of the 'homeless' probably make more money than a lot of people on this forum.  

Edited August 18, 2016 by n i k o

[cadete]

8 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Many of the 'homeless' probably make more money than a lot of people on this forum.  

The guy who has being doing the "Need Money for a Room" routine outside The Gimp for five years has a phone and and a bloody car (Albeit a crap one)... he walks a deliberate loop around the City past outdoor seating areas where PPL can not get away and dismiss him instantly.

I know a bloke who works in the Courts and he says once a month the Beggar gets booked by the Cops and gets sent to Court to pay a fine... which he is happy to do as it is still more profitable for him to beg and even with the fine. So he is a Professional Beggar.

Edited August 18, 2016 by cadete

[n i k o]

1 minute ago, cadete said:

The guy who has being doing the "Need Money for a Room" routine outside The Gimp for five years has a phone and and a bloody car (Albeit a crap one)... he walks a deliberate loop around the City past outdoor seating areas where PPL can not get away and dismiss him instantly.

I know a bloke who works in the Courts and he says once a month the Beggar gets booked by the Cops and gets sent to Court to pay a fine... which is he is happy to do as it is still more profitable for him to beg and even with the fine.

Not surprised. Offer them food and watch them run. 

[bt50]

I'm more inclined to give some change to the people selling the big issue. At least theyre trying.

[hedaik]

37 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Many of the 'homeless' probably make more money than a lot of people on this forum.  

I know a certain percentage of them are backpackers trying to extend their stay. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by hedaik

[cadete]

35 minutes ago, hedaik said:

I know a certain percentage of them are backpackers trying to extend their stay. 

When you have lived in the Inner North for as long as I have you actually get to know a set roster of twenty to thirty of these types... and you just have to describe them to other people also from the Inner North and they know who you are talking about most of the time. (My partner and I do it all the time).

One of the worst is the guy with the Skullet who circles around Richmond, Collingwood, Fitzroy. Humble Hands out Dreadlock Hippy is one of the better ones.

[Embee]

2 hours ago, bt50 said:

I'm more inclined to give some change to the people selling the big issue. At least theyre trying.

Yeah, or at least the guys that are actually actively doing something, like painting stuff, playing an instrument etc.

At least they're actually trying to earn the money, unlike the people who just spin a story. I've worked in the City for about 7 years now, and almost every single one of the 'walk up and tell a sop story' homeless have been doing it the entire time, same faces over and over.

[Tesla]

3 hours ago, cadete said:

The guy who has being doing the "Need Money for a Room" routine outside The Gimp for five years has a phone and and a bloody car (Albeit a crap one)... he walks a deliberate loop around the City past outdoor seating areas where PPL can not get away and dismiss him instantly.

Dude probably isn't even homeless, probably got a nice apartment in the area, hustling $100k a year in tax free cash donations.

 

2 hours ago, bt50 said:

I'm more inclined to give some change to the people selling the big issue. At least theyre trying.

Nah, you just want to feel better about yourself for being a capitalist.

Fuck them, I don't want the big issue, stop trying to sell me shit.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Tesla

[bt50]

Just now, Tesla said:

Dude probably isn't even homeless, probably got a nice apartment in the area, hustling $100k a year in cash donations.

 

Nah, you just want to feel better about yourself for being a capitalist.

Fuck them, I don't want the big issue, stop trying to sell me shit.

Haha i should have prefaced that by saying that i dont buy the big issue. Just give them a couple doll hairs

[cadete]

In the old days you could get them to fuck off with a dart... you cant even do that anymore because a dart is worth more than your spare change.

Which is another thing I hate: PPL who try to buy smokes of me, its like I am not some tightarse bum who needs your one dollar coin just ask for a smoke outright and I will give you one if I have enough to spare.

[Tesla]

I think I'm gonna have a stroke if the Andrews government actually buys back taxi licences at $150k each as part of legalising uber. 

I thought WA giving $10k 'compensation' per licence was ridiculous, but this is insane.

They don't get shit, it's an investment, it comes with risks. What's next, compensate people when their share portfolio loses value? When their house loses value? Ffs.

They should be happy they got to rape our wallets for so many years with their overpriced legalised monopoly. If anyone is owed compensation it's every person in Victorian that ever got in a taxi.

[Deeming]

A plug for my wife's first Spectator column.
 

Quote

Purporting to be about sexual health, STIs, and avoiding the transmission of them, Transmission is really a Trojan horse designed to promote and encourage Blackman’s hyper sexualised view of school student’s sex-lives. 

Quote

Worksheet 4 (entitled Ways to engage in sexual pleasure) lists and graphically explains 20 sexual acts (“Anal Sex: having something, maybe a penis, finger or dildo put into the anus. Analingus: when you give someone anal oral sex. Oral:  When a person uses their mouth – like kissing, licking or sucking – to stimulate someone’s genitals, giving them sexual pleasure. Penetrative Sex: when a penis or an object is inserted into the vagina or anus.”). Students are then required to identify with one of three responses to each sex act: ‘Toy Box’ (with a picture of a toy box), ‘Recycle’ (a recycling bin) or ‘Not sure’ (dual fridge-freezer)’. So a student can identify as fun (the toy box, of course), experimental (recycling), or just waiting until later to do it (frigid?). Note that ‘no thanks, not ever’ is simply not an option. 

http://spectator.com.au/2016/08/safe-schools-sleazy-trojan-horse/
 

[hedaik]

Im really starting to hate the internet, well social media at least. These faux outrages that occur on almost a weekly basis now really pisses me off.