Domestic Politics

[GreenSeater]

12 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Tbf the greens are a left rabble that puts fluffy animals, drugs and sexual freedom above the economy 

I walked right into that one I guess haha

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, malloy said:

Furthermore the company was a subsidiary of the ASX listed company that his directorship role was really for. The offshore company was also setup prior to Turnballs appointment.

Also there is nothing illegal about having companies in low/no tax jurisdictions and is common for ASX listed companies to have subsidiaries there.

Nevertheless it's not helpful to the Coalition, as many ALP voters (not all) don't, or won't, understand the finer points of corporation law etc.

[GreenSeater]

12 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Nevertheless it's not helpful to the Coalition, as many ALP voters (not all) don't, or won't, understand the finer points of corporation law etc.

This is what I was trying to get at tbh

[bt50]

36 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Nevertheless it's not helpful to the Coalition, as many ALP voters (not all) don't, or won't, understand the finer points of corporation law etc.

Hence the ultimate flaw in democracy. Hard to pick the best option when a large portion of the population don't know what's best for them.

[thisphantomfortress]

1 hour ago, Embee said:

Sounds eerily like your life priorities to be honest

On a micro level absolutely but politics is about the macro and my hedonistic desires need to take a back seat for the greater good

[cadete]

18 hours ago, bt50 said:

Hence the ultimate flaw in democracy. Hard to pick the best option when a large portion of the population don't know what's best for them.

I disagree with this... 

IMO you can never underestimate the intelligence of the Australian Public as a Collective Group... over history they have generally been able to work out when a Government have gone to far and are pushing things beyond their station or if the are doing an okay job and deserve re-election. 

I also believe if you look back at Federal elections then you see the generally make the right choice for the time.

Funny enough these days it always seems to be the Pinkos who really show how much they do care about the poor who most often sprout theories about the Australian Public being stupid. That latest edition of this being of course that PPL are too dumb to not work out that Abbott is using Islamphobia to cause tension and win support,

This of course was predated by the often claimed theory that which was preceded by them saying Howard was brainwashing PPL in regards to the Boat Situation. Seriously, just because PPL vote a certain way or support a Government's policy does not mean they are bloody brainwashed.

[Shahanga]

Nice one posting that survey link @cadete. My views were funnily enough exactly what I knew they were (though it was a bit scary finding out I agreed with the Green Marxists 11% of the time, obviously need to rethink that 11%). Was interested to note I apparently agree with the liberal democrats s lot, despite every time some one on here mentions a policy of theirs it's not something I'm in favour of. 

[hedaik]

lol I played cricket with this guy all through my teenage years then by chance also worked with him at iiNet in Perth. Since I was hes had a reputation as being a dodgy prick and work management hated him. His career ain't going to end well (if it even gets started)

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/31606227/liberal-candidate-caught-out-over-job-claims/?cmp=st

Edited May 16, 2016 by hedaik

[thisphantomfortress]

10 minutes ago, hedaik said:

lol I played cricket with this guy all through my teenage years then by chance also worked with him at iiNet in Perth. Since I was hes had a reputation as being a dodgy prick and work management hated him. His career ain't going to end well (if it even gets started)

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/31606227/liberal-candidate-caught-out-over-job-claims/?cmp=st

Labor don't have a huge majority in the seat, why are the liberals running him? He seems like a moron

[hedaik]

7 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Labor don't have a huge majority in the seat, why are the liberals running him? He seems like a moron

Fremantle typically is bit of a hippy area as well as obvious Labor ties due to the wharfies, but looking at the last result it seems things may have changed over the last 10 years.  Cadete will be able to provide an expert analysis.

Edited May 16, 2016 by hedaik

[cadete]

16 hours ago, hedaik said:

Fremantle typically is bit of a hippy area as well as obvious Labor ties due to the wharfies, but looking at the last result it seems things may have changed over the last 10 years.  Cadete will be able to provide an expert analysis.

I lived in this seat and can safely say that Fremantle will always remain ALP... the last closer result was just a reflection of the landslide election. It was seat of Australia's greatest ALP PM in Curtin. (Greatest PM of all time IMO).

Basically you have three parts of the seat: The largest part which makes up over half the seat which is the Southern Part and this is fIrmly ALP which kind of resembles a place like Preston/Coburg. You then have Fremantle the town which has been gentrified but most likely not really by the ALP voters. The third part of the seat is East Fremantle which is on the river on a hill above Freo which resembles a place like Hawthorn which is made up of mainly Coalition Voters. (This is where I lived over there.)

Generally the Electoral Officer's to make things easier count the votes for the seat by pulling the Liberal Votes out the Southern Region and the ALP votes out the East Fremantle Wards.

In regards to the stupid candidate, its hardly strange that he is an idiot as he is a West Australian Candidate for a seat they can never win... you always find this types in unwinnable seats. The WA Liberal Party are also further right than the party over here... and TBH no Liberal who seriously wants to be a MP would contest Fremantle. I was actually in the Fremantle Liberal Branch myself for a short time and it was not a challenge for someone to win nomination, in fact it was pretty much whoever was keen was chosen to be the candidate. The only time PPL cared about preselection was for the State Upper House.

[Tesla]

FFS why is every spending cut now labelled a tax. It's not a tax, it's a spending cut. Eg, if negative gearing is removed it's apparently a tax on houses, if medicare funding is cut it's a tax on sickness, etc.

Most annoying retarded shit.

[Tesla]

@thisphantomfortress @Jimmy @marn11

Apparently the Libertarian vote is so high these days a second party is needed http://libertarian.net.au/ 

 

[marn11]

2 hours ago, Tesla said:

@thisphantomfortress @Jimmy @marn11

Apparently the Libertarian vote is so high these days a second party is needed http://libertarian.net.au/ 

 

I don't get it. What's their purpose? 

[Tesla]

45 minutes ago, marn11 said:

I don't get it. What's their purpose? 

I don't either, just cunts who wanted to make their own party I guess. 

[jw1739]

8 hours ago, Tesla said:

FFS why is every spending cut now labelled a tax. It's not a tax, it's a spending cut. Eg, if negative gearing is removed it's apparently a tax on houses, if medicare funding is cut it's a tax on sickness, etc.

Most annoying retarded shit.

I don't know which is worse - this election campaign or the off-season. So far I can't get interested in either.

[Deeming]

12 hours ago, Tesla said:

@thisphantomfortress @Jimmy @marn11

Apparently the Libertarian vote is so high these days a second party is needed http://libertarian.net.au/ 

 

Splitters! 

[cadete]

17 hours ago, Tesla said:

@thisphantomfortress @Jimmy @marn11

Apparently the Libertarian vote is so high these days a second party is needed http://libertarian.net.au/ 

 

14 hours ago, marn11 said:

I don't get it. What's their purpose? 

Reminds of when I was at Melb Uni and the Young Libs masterminded what was would have been once seen as an impossible victory in the Student Election by registering a dozen fake parties that all sounded the same to confuse the fuck out of everybody and make their own party look apolitical. 

They also changed their own party name from the previous election and importantly gave out Student Union Food Vouchers to make sure they got the Private School Kids (In particular those we lived on Campus) came out and voted and not just the only PPL usually interested in Students Politics... as in Socialists.

To this day it was the greatest piece of Machiavellian Art I have ever seen with my own two eyes.  

Edited May 17, 2016 by cadete

[malloy]

Daniel Andrew's handpicked infrastructure advisors are set to release a report backin construction of an EW link....

[Tesla]

4 minutes ago, malloy said:

Daniel Andrew's handpicked infrastructure advisors are set to release a report backin construction of an EW link....

Liberals will build the eastern section when they're in office next. So end result will be EWL with a shitter western section and lengthened toll road contract on citylink cause Andrews decided to build  westgate distributor which is just a poverty version of the western section of EWL.

[cadete]

25 minutes ago, malloy said:

Daniel Andrew's handpicked infrastructure advisors are set to release a report backin construction of an EW link....

As someone who works in Infrastructure/Planning its pretty much impossible for a Professional in this field to not agree this thing needs to be built.

I mean putting aside the Train Line that obviously should also eventually be built as well... Melbourne is now growing far too rapidly for someone to give a Professional Opinion that this city does not need The EW Link is really just plain irresponsible.

PT and bikes alone will never be the solution for a City that spans as far and wide as ours does... cars are here to stay in this country.

Edited May 18, 2016 by cadete

[Tesla]

1 minute ago, cadete said:

As someone who works in Infrastructure/Planning its pretty much impossible for a Professional in this field to not agree this thing needs to be built.

I mean putting aside the Train Line that obviously should also eventually be built as well... Melbourne is now growing far too rapidly for someone to give a Professional Opinion that this city does not need The EW Link is really just plain irresponsible.

The thing is the money is there as well. Victoria is balling off of stamp duty, and that won't last forever with the property market looking to have peaked. But we obviously won't see it from this government.

I'm guessing they'll promise the 'missing section' of the ring road before/at the next election to appease motorists instead, which is also needed of course.

[Tesla]

Honestly, if anything, the government is letting in too many refugees.

I don't have a problem with Australia doing it's bit, but refugees come at a cost and we are only a small nation in terms of population and we are in a period of economic difficulty.

The 12,000-13,000 a year we were letting in previously was about right for a country of Australia's size, the government has doubled that now.

I'm all for migration, when it adds value, obviously my parents are migrants. But when my dad came here in the early 70s it was a different time, Australia needed people and these people met labor shortages and helped build modern Australia. The unemployment rate was 2%, a number which should be almost impossible if you know basic economics and how the unemployment rate is calculated. For example, my dad still has a letter he received from his work when he went back overseas temporarily basically asking him to come back to Australia because there just weren't enough people that could do his job. Back then skilled, low skill, even no skill, all sorts of people were needed because there were labor shortages across the board. Whether you were an economic migrant like my dad or a refugee, really there was no difference since they let just about anyone in either way and they all added value.

Whereas these days we are on the verge of an era where jobs for unskilled workers will almost disappear as they're replaced by technology advancements. The distinction between skilled migrants, and refugee who are generally unskilled, has never been clearer. One adds value, the other costs us money. The only way to look at letting refugees in is as a charitable cause. And, as the saying goes, charity starts at home.

In the future, there is going to be a class of people, representing a significant proportion of our society, who are unskilled that the rest will have to support, and if that's the cost of technological advancement then even I don't mind it too much. But let's not add too many more people to this class unnecessarily.

As much as the left can't grasp the concept of finite resources, that is reality. The shit that happened in Europe is way too far, you can't expect countries to take in that many people, and Australia shouldn't follow suite and let in too many.

[NewConvert]

43 minutes ago, Tesla said:

Honestly, if anything, the government is letting in too many refugees.

I don't have a problem with Australia doing it's bit, but refugees come at a cost and we are only a small nation in terms of population and we are in a period of economic difficulty.

The 12,000-13,000 a year we were letting in previously was about right for a country of Australia's size, the government has doubled that now.

I'm all for migration, when it adds value, obviously my parents are migrants. But when my dad came here in the early 70s it was a different time, Australia needed people and these people met labor shortages and helped build modern Australia. The unemployment rate was 2%, a number which should be almost impossible if you know basic economics and how the unemployment rate is calculated. For example, my dad still has a letter he received from his work when he went back overseas temporarily basically asking him to come back to Australia because there just weren't enough people that could do his job. Back then skilled, low skill, even no skill, all sorts of people were needed because there were labor shortages across the board. Whether you were an economic migrant like my dad or a refugee, really there was no difference since they let just about anyone in either way and they all added value.

Whereas these days we are on the verge of an era where jobs for unskilled workers will almost disappear as they're replaced by technology advancements. The distinction between skilled migrants, and refugee who are generally unskilled, has never been clearer. One adds value, the other costs us money. The only way to look at letting refugees in is as a charitable cause. And, as the saying goes, charity starts at home.

In the future, there is going to be a class of people, representing a significant proportion of our society, who are unskilled that the rest will have to support, and if that's the cost of technological advancement then even I don't mind it too much. But let's not add too many more people to this class unnecessarily.

As much as the left can't grasp the concept of finite resources, that is reality. The shit that happened in Europe is way too far, you can't expect countries to take in that many people, and Australia shouldn't follow suite and let in too many.

I sort of feel the same way with a few reservations:

1. If the Coalition of the Willing (aka USA, UK, Australia and Poland) had not invaded Iraq would we have seen such a mass exodus of people from Iraq and Syria? I think not, and as such what the Europeans are suffering are the consequences of the CotW. Since, I accept that people should be responsible for the consequences of their action then it is the CotW that should take all the refugees from Iraq and Syria.

2. Right now a lot unskilled work is disappearing not because automation has replaced it, that is only part of the equation, it is because the world economy is absorbing the 1.4B Chinese and 1.3B Indians plus assorted nations such as Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc.

3. Middle skill levels jobs will also disappear as they can be outsourced or replaced. Software engineering is already outsourced to India and other places in a reasonable large volume. I expect that within a decade we shall see Indian/Chinese civil engineers obtaining Australian registration and then have those jobs over there as well. Bricklayers will be OK unless foreign workers are brought in on short term contracts to replace the local ones.

I also accept that it would be impossible for a nation to be able to absorb that many people in one hit - we don't have the infrastructure. And lets not even consider the psychological support that some of these refugees are going to need.

I think that future economic debates will be about how we are going to support people in the face of automation and global workforce.

[Tesla]

10 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

I sort of feel the same way with a few reservations:

1. If the Coalition of the Willing (aka USA, UK, Australia and Poland) had not invaded Iraq would we have seen such a mass exodus of people from Iraq and Syria? I think not, and as such what the Europeans are suffering are the consequences of the CotW. Since, I accept that people should be responsible for the consequences of their action then it is the CotW that should take all the refugees from Iraq and Syria.

2. Right now a lot unskilled work is disappearing not because automation has replaced it, that is only part of the equation, it is because the world economy is absorbing the 1.4B Chinese and 1.3B Indians plus assorted nations such as Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc.

3. Middle skill levels jobs will also disappear as they can be outsourced or replaced. Software engineering is already outsourced to India and other places in a reasonable large volume. I expect that within a decade we shall see Indian/Chinese civil engineers obtaining Australian registration and then have those jobs over there as well. Bricklayers will be OK unless foreign workers are brought in on short term contracts to replace the local ones.

I also accept that it would be impossible for a nation to be able to absorb that many people in one hit - we don't have the infrastructure. And lets not even consider the psychological support that some of these refugees are going to need.

I think that future economic debates will be about how we are going to support people in the face of automation and global workforce.

1. I actually sort of agree and have expressed a similar opinion previously. But given the US was the main protagonist, they should take the most refugees shouldn't they? But they take fuck all.

2. True, that is part of it too.

3. To an extent true also. But a lot of business still prefer locals and will forever. As someone who has experience in this area, you still get what you pay for. Think of it like this, there is a global market for these outsourced services now, so would the cost reflect the cost of living in the country the work is being outsourced to or the amount people from richer countries are willing to pay? Some of both but primarily the latter. Cheap outsourced labor is generally of low quality, high quality outsourced labor is not cheap and not much cheaper than local costs especially when you factor costs relating to the inconvenience of it.

2 & 3, TBH I do think we have reached peak globalisation and peak free trading, I think the world will go back to more protectionist measures in the future as these things do become an issue.

And I agree with your last sentence, I believe in the future there will be two classes of people, those with jobs and those without. I also believe technology advancements will generate enough increased wealth that even in this scenario those who have jobs are still better off even after supporting those without.

[NewConvert]

37 minutes ago, Tesla said:

1. I actually sort of agree and have expressed a similar opinion previously. But given the US was the main protagonist, they should take the most refugees shouldn't they? But they take fuck all.

2. True, that is part of it too.

3. To an extent true also. But a lot of business still prefer locals and will forever. As someone who has experience in this area, you still get what you pay for. Think of it like this, there is a global market for these outsourced services now, so would the cost reflect the cost of living in the country the work is being outsourced to or the amount people from richer countries are willing to pay? Some of both but primarily the latter. Cheap outsourced labor is generally of low quality, high quality outsourced labor is not cheap and not much cheaper than local costs especially when you factor costs relating to the inconvenience of it.

2 & 3, TBH I do think we have reached peak globalisation and peak free trading, I think the world will go back to more protectionist measures in the future as these things do become an issue.

And I agree with your last sentence, I believe in the future there will be two classes of people, those with jobs and those without. I also believe technology advancements will generate enough increased wealth that even in this scenario those who have jobs are still better off even after supporting those without.

1. Fully agree with this. Although I would have no idea as to how you would equitably split a refugee intake. Not that it would happen in any case.

3. this is true. The way I think about it is that from almost no outsourcing 30 years ago to where we are today markets will find a level for the price. That is in some industries there will be more outsourcing than others in conjunction with the price end customers are willing to pay. So if you are a low price/low margin/low quality supplier you probably will outsource. Competitors with high margin.high quality are less likely. Then, as Siemens CEO put it, high IP products are manufactured in Germany, medium IP products are manufactured in Mexico and low IP products are manufactured in China.

4. I am not sure whether we have reached peak globalisation/free trading. In the absence of regulation I would always expect it to reach a natural plateau and whether we are near there or not is difficult to determine. Will governments return to explicit protectionist measures? I don't see this in the immediate political landscape. What I do see though is that governments will curtail tax minimisation arrangements and that the finance sector would be reigned in, and this would then impact on the levels of globalised trade.

5. After living in Japan, I see four classes of people: productively employed, unproductively employed, pensioned and unemployed. All held together by a quasi-privatised social safety net. As an example, Japan railways is grossly overstaffed - even for a lefty like me - but they employ low skill staff that sweep the trains and the stations on a regular basis but the staff receive a wage paid by the commuters and the taxpayer. The construction industry is another sector that is the same - so buildings have a life cycle of about two decades (I believe that Singapore is the same). The quasi-privatised safety net is that the government pays construction companies to re-build apartment blocks which are cheap to rent - thus the JR staff can afford to have a roof over their heads. A decent education and health systems complete the safety net for most citizens. Whether that system could be transposed to Australia remains to be seen.

 

[thisphantomfortress]

Que lefty apologists defending this crook.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/election-2016-greens-leader-richard-di-natale-fails-to-declare-home-pays-au-pairs-minimum-wage-20160519-goywxq.html

[Chris p]

32 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Que lefty apologists defending this crook.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/election-2016-greens-leader-richard-di-natale-fails-to-declare-home-pays-au-pairs-minimum-wage-20160519-goywxq.html

 

Greens scum.

 

Do as i say not as i do

[thisphantomfortress]

6 minutes ago, Chris p said:

 

Greens scum.

 

Do as i say not as i do

You'll fit in well here

[Tesla]

Finally the authorities taking action on this party of criminals  

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/afp-raids-alp-offices-in-melbourne-over-nbn-leaks-20160519-gozcdw.html

[thisphantomfortress]

24 minutes ago, Tesla said:

Finally the authorities taking action on this party of criminals  

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/afp-raids-alp-offices-in-melbourne-over-nbn-leaks-20160519-gozcdw.html

Did Tony Bourke imply the AFP were acting as the liberals gestapo?

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-19/afp-raids-labor-party-offices-in-melbourne/7430346

edit- holy shit lefties on the Internet are actually claiming that the liberals ordered this, how fucking delusional are these morons? 

R. Di Natale - officially the luckiest man in Aus right now, go buy a lotto ticket Ritchie 

Edited May 19, 2016 by thisphantomfortress

[cadete]

12 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Did Tony Bourke imply the AFP were acting as the liberals gestapo?

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-19/afp-raids-labor-party-offices-in-melbourne/7430346

edit- holy shit lefties on the Internet are actually claiming that the liberals ordered this, how fucking delusional are these morons? 

R. Di Natale - officially the luckiest man in Aus right now, go buy a lotto ticket Ritchie 

They will say anything...

A month or so back I saw one Non Name Pinko on Twitter claiming all the fuss over APEX in the media was clearly purely racial and that the gang was no worse than any petty gang of white criminals that has been in operation in Melbourne in the past.

There is no doubting that over ten years ago at the time of the Cronulla Riots that this country needed to move and progress away from Racial Stereotyping... things were pretty fucked then for a subsection of Australia.

The thing is the PC Crowd have now taken things so far beyond was what required that PPL can longer discuss topics which are clearly Cultural Issues in Society from a Cultural Perspective if this issue is centered around particular minority groups without being called names. This basically leaves us fucked in finding solutions to this problems... unless they are Anti Semitic (Opps sorry I meant Zionism) or about Roman Catholicism. 

I just find the whole thing plain stupid... imagine if this country suddenly did not tackle issues with our Indigenous Community from the Cultural Perspective we have adopted in the past forty years... Every Leftist would be appalled. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by cadete

[Shahanga]

But we don't tackle indigenous issues either cadete!

so pretending there is not a community link to particular problems is actually very well trodden ground and has been happening for a lot longer than 10 years.

Pretending there isn't a problem isn't that helpful but it does mean that people don't actually have to fix complex difficult issues, so there are at least some winners.

[cadete]

51 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

But we don't tackle indigenous issues either cadete!

so pretending there is not a community link to particular problems is actually very well trodden ground and has been happening for a lot longer than 10 years.

Pretending there isn't a problem isn't that helpful but it does mean that people don't actually have to fix complex difficult issues, so there are at least some winners.

Howard did put some significant steps into addressing some very major and just down right sad issues in Remote Aboriginal Communities... which I may add to the ALP's credit received bipartisan support. 

[hedaik]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/31659084/federal-election-2016-fremantle-liberal-candidate-sherry-sufi-resigns/

lol damn I was hoping to get a bit more enjoyment out of his political career than that. 

[Deeming]

I'm still not sure what he did that was so bad. Driven out by the outrage PC brigade

[thisphantomfortress]

1 minute ago, Deeming said:

I'm still not sure what he did that was so bad. Driven out by the outrage PC brigade

Judging by your user name I have an inkling a relative of yours may have run recently, I'm fairly sure it was at state level though, but if it was at federal level are they running again?

[Deeming]

Not this time, just gave birth a month ago

[hedaik]

6 minutes ago, Deeming said:

I'm still not sure what he did that was so bad. Driven out by the outrage PC brigade

As I said earlier the guys held a dodgy reputation through two cricket clubs and a workplace over a 10 year period, his peers in the party would know a lot more about him than what has come to the surface via the media. His only mate at Mt Lawley cricket club was a redhead we called rednut, and everybody used to just bowl non stop bouncers to him in the nets. 

[Deeming]

1 minute ago, hedaik said:

As I said earlier the guys held a dodgy reputation through two cricket clubs and a workplace over a 10 year period, his peers in the party would know a lot more about him than what has come to the surface via the media. His only mate at Mt Lawley cricket club was a redhead we called rednut, and everybody used to just bowl non stop bouncers to him in the nets. 

Well if there is more to the story that's a different matter.