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Asian Champions League

Blackout

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Blackout

Blackout

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Hi guys, this is my first post here. I tried searching but could find anything discussing the ACL. In particular, the attitudes of fans towards the competition and its importance to them as a fan.

 

I've always followed the A-League closely from season 1 (to the point that I started cheering for the home team so each club's supporter base would grow), but could never find any attachment to the Victory (something about calling your team after a possible result of the game). Which leads me to the topic, I'm no fanboy that expects Australian clubs to be making the semi-finals every year. But I personally would love to see my team not only a force in the A-League, but also qualifying with regularity for the ACL (in an ideal world).

 

What are the opinions of the average Melbourne Heart supporter on the ACL? I'm getting a sense of apathy from what I've read from fans on various sources around the place. Which surprised me at first as I couldn't think of anything more satisfying than touching up the big Japanese, Korean and middle-eastern teams and building the reputation of our league and Australian football.

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Melburnian

Melburnian

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ACL is very important for me. It's about success and if we are continually reaching this and doing well in it, then it means we are being successful.

I've paid closer attention to the ACL this year because of our new found wealth and being able to see what the level is we need to reach. It's no doubt harder for us whilst being restricted by salary caps etc but it's exciting to know we can make this competition and I will definitely travel to see us play if schedule suits.

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Dylan

Dylan

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I think as a whole the ACL will be seen more favorably by the public when Australian teams actually become competitive. There seems to be a very large gulf between the standards and I might be wrong and would appreciate correction, don't most Asian leagues also work under a cap just a much larger one? They of course have a lot more money than any Australian club for marquees facilities etc.

Although the man city CEO did say they want to look towards the ACL with us which is prettying revealing and it's going to be a fun ride for sure

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jw1739

jw1739

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We haven't been in it yet, so it's hard to judge the attitude of Heart fans towards it. But for me it's one of the things we should be striving for - to be Champions of the Asian Football Confederation. I want to see Heart lead the way.

 

The points made above are very valid. IIRC, only Adelaide have shown themselves to be competitive. Not only that, the ACL seems to get almost no media coverage. It takes place towards the end of our season, when the media coverage of the other football codes is already ramping up and even the A-League itself is being swamped.

 

I see it as just another of the "global" challenges facing FFA and the A-League clubs. We can't always blame the media. Unless we aspire to be a vigorous and competitive part of it, we consign ourselves to bumble along as a small and rather insignificant little rump competition somewhere down in the bottom right-hand corner of the map.

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Nate

Nate

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I'd love for us to be involved in and striving towards playing in the ACL.

 

The main issue surrounding it and the A-League's participation in the competition (and it's been highlighted again recently) is how much it impacts on the clubs when trying to juggle both ACL and A-League at the same time without designated scheduling, so we end up with this mentality that the ACL is actually detrimental to success rather than a competition of significance and importance in Australian football. 

 

Adelaide United are pretty much the only club who have genuinely taken it seriously imo.

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Deviant

Deviant

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I'd love for us to be involved in and striving towards playing in the ACL.

 

The main issue surrounding it and the A-League's participation in the competition (and it's been highlighted again recently) is how much it impacts on the clubs when trying to juggle both ACL and A-League at the same time without designated scheduling, so we end up with this mentality that the ACL is actually detrimental to success rather than a competition of significance and importance in Australian football. 

 

Adelaide United are pretty much the only club who have genuinely taken it seriously imo.

 

DEPTH!!! 

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NewConvert

NewConvert

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Wen I switched onto football in 2009 I was thinking more of the socceroos rather than the A-League. As I prepared to go to the 2010 World Cup, I became aware that most successful teams had a majority of players from their domestic league (England being the exception where they are perenially unsuccessful). Countries like Spain had one or two players playing elsewhere. The realisation that most of the socceroos were playing in different competitions meant that there was little chemistry between them - through no fault of their own, its just the way things are. So after South Africa I knew that until our domestic league (the A-League) came into its own then the socceroos will always struggle relying on one or two players to pull the team through. Since I joined Heart (and by extension the A-league), the competition has improved every year or at least one or two teams have improved enough to drag the other clubs with them. I would like to think that the current line up of PG would comprehensively beat the winners of season 1.

So where does the ACL come into this? it is the only annual competition A-League teams play against other leagues, and thus far A-league teams are found wanting. Until A-league teams regularly make the final four, the socceroos are not going to improve all that much. Do I want to see Heart play in the ACL? Yes I do, very much so. I think that there are a few great young players that will benefit enormously playing against sides that are currently better than any in the A-League.

Will it be hard? yes, in the beginning it will. It will require our players to be fitter and have more endurance (I note that the Chilean manager said earlier today that there were too many players lacking fitness and from what I saw we are not a patch on them). It will mean that the club will have to develop depth using NYL players. it will mean that the players will know instinctively where their teammates will be in a few seconds and where the opposition players are going to be. It will mean that our coaching staff not only will have to watch A-League matches but AFC matches, and then distill that for training and tactics.

Finally, much as I like our visa players I have a dream that one day some of the visa spots are left unused because there are too many young players capable of fulfilling that role.

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HeartMillsy29

HeartMillsy29

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Read something the other day that read along the lines of 30 million Chinese tuned into the Victory ACL match at one point or another. The possibilities are endless in Asia and ever since the City takeover, one of the biggest things that has been running through my mind has been the ACL.

 

Away trips would be sick  :D

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HEARTinator

HEARTinator

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Under the Sidwell Regime, just treading water was seen as success. Most of us though thought success meant winning silverware. Many of us thought that we should aim to be the most successful team in the HAL and in the ACL. So yes, Australian champions, Asian champions. If you don't aim high you might as well pack up and play VPL.

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HEARTinator

HEARTinator

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Would be a good excuse to go to Japan :) Stay in Kyoto and catch the bullet train to whatever city we're playing in. Just the thought makes me so excited for the future of this club!

I've been to Japan twice for work, to Matsumoto and Yokohama and both times were great. Good train system, food and people exceedingly friendly. It'd be a trip of a lifetime honestly! Especially if HeartFC came home with 3 pts :)

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xXJawsaXx

xXJawsaXx

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Would be a good excuse to go to Japan :) Stay in Kyoto and catch the bullet train to whatever city we're playing in. Just the thought makes me so excited for the future of this club!

I've been to Japan twice for work, to Matsumoto and Yokohama and both times were great. Good train system, food and people exceedingly friendly. It'd be a trip of a lifetime honestly! Especially if HeartFC came home with 3 pts :)

 

I'd love to go to Japan anyway, going to see Heart play would be a fantastic bonus haha!

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mulhollanddrive

mulhollanddrive

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ACL would be more important to the owners for their branding than the A-League.

 

But it's tough to do well in given it coincides with the end of the season and we will always have a lower salary cap than the favourites.

 

What I'd like to see is an A-League team look like it can technically outplay a good Asian team, I think we could be it in the future.

 

What could also help is having 2 genuine marquees, the big names have never played ACL like Kewell, Del Piero, Fowler etc... That's one advantage we could have to even up the salary and quality given we will spend it.

 

My feeling is that it could take an A-League team to win it, for it to be recognised, but I'd love to us to be in it and have a do or die game at home to qualify for the knock outs, just imagining early morning Champions League ties and recreating that here.

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Parrot

Parrot

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No A League team will win the Asian Champions League while FFA continues to bury its head in the sand and imposes harsh handicaps on A League clubs that its opposition don't have.


1. FFA's small squad sizes are an absolute disaster when that small squad has to play both in the A League and the Asian Champions League. This is made even worse at this time of the year as those yellow cards from earlier in the season add up, further reducing the size of A League squads competing on two fronts.

2. Handicapping an A League club with a low salary cap when it plays in the Asian Champions League while its opponents in the Asian Champions League have none is a sick joke.

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Falastur

Falastur

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There needs to be extra salary made available just for the ACL squads as this would allow the Aussie teams to compete whilst also  allowing the A League to remain viable.

 

If all bets were off in terms of salaries in the A league only 3 or 4 clubs would survive and prosper IMO (Heart, Victory, Sydney and maybe WSW)

 

Would that not create a situation like in the Premier League, with the top teams able to constantly repeat their success due to having far more money to spend, and no other teams ever getting a sniff?

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Blackout

Blackout

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The salary cap has increased significantly since the first few seasons (I believe it is $2.5 million up from the inaugural season's $1.5 million). Unfortunately you can't bump it up instantly as it would make some clubs instantly unsustainable. I believe the rate of increase is good, we just have to develop our own talent.

 

I think the big thing is marquee players, in particular focusing on Asian marquees so they comply with AFC rules and have greater marketability in Asia.

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jw1739

jw1739

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I still think the FFA should scrap the Australian Marquee spot and change it to an Asian Marquee spot.

Don't think the PFA would like that idea. Surely you can always use your foreign visa marquee place for a player from an AFC country other than Australia?

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xXJawsaXx

xXJawsaXx

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I still think the FFA should scrap the Australian Marquee spot and change it to an Asian Marquee spot.

Don't think the PFA would like that idea. Surely you can always use your foreign visa marquee place for a player from an AFC country other than Australia?

 

You could, but honestly, most Australian clubs would take a marquee from Europe over one from Asia. Having a marquee spot for an Asian player may push Australian clubs to look there more closely, but I don't know.

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LR9

LR9

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I still think the FFA should scrap the Australian Marquee spot and change it to an Asian Marquee spot.

I assume by Asian Marquee, you mean anyone from the AFC confederation (incl. Aus)?

If so, I think that would be a good idea, brought up the same point with a mate not long ago.

 

 

There needs to be extra salary made available just for the ACL squads as this would allow the Aussie teams to compete whilst also  allowing the A League to remain viable.

 

If all bets were off in terms of salaries in the A league only 3 or 4 clubs would survive and prosper IMO (Heart, Victory, Sydney and maybe WSW)

 

Would that not create a situation like in the Premier League, with the top teams able to constantly repeat their success due to having far more money to spend, and no other teams ever getting a sniff?

 

I agree. I think that 23 man squads are too thin for teams to be able to be competitive in two competitions, 3 with the FFA cup coming and that will overlap even more with our season in 2015.

I think something that the FFA should look in to (and something I know clubs pushed for in the past) is to keep the salary cap in place, but removing the restriction on a 23 man squad max, which would cost them nothing.

 

This could encourage clubs to sign the cream of the crop players from state league comps or take a risk on NYL players who MIGHT have what it takes. It will even give more of a chance to mature aged players that may be overlooked solely because of their DOB.

 

This way we could unearth a lot more players like Sasa Ogenovski, Matthew Leckie and Ivan Franjic (all Melbourne boys)

 

To many players fall through the cracks here in Aus, and we can't afford that with the small number of talented footballers we produce.

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jw1739

jw1739

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I still think the FFA should scrap the Australian Marquee spot and change it to an Asian Marquee spot.

I assume by Asian Marquee, you mean anyone from the AFC confederation (incl. Aus)?

If so, I think that would be a good idea, brought up the same point with a mate not long ago.

 

 

There needs to be extra salary made available just for the ACL squads as this would allow the Aussie teams to compete whilst also  allowing the A League to remain viable.

 

If all bets were off in terms of salaries in the A league only 3 or 4 clubs would survive and prosper IMO (Heart, Victory, Sydney and maybe WSW)

 

Would that not create a situation like in the Premier League, with the top teams able to constantly repeat their success due to having far more money to spend, and no other teams ever getting a sniff?

 

I agree. I think that 23 man squads are too thin for teams to be able to be competitive in two competitions, 3 with the FFA cup coming and that will overlap even more with our season in 2015.

I think something that the FFA should look in to (and something I know clubs pushed for in the past) is to keep the salary cap in place, but removing the restriction on a 23 man squad max, which would cost them nothing.

 

This could encourage clubs to sign the cream of the crop players from state league comps or take a risk on NYL players who MIGHT have what it takes. It will even give more of a chance to mature aged players that may be overlooked solely because of their DOB.

 

This way we could unearth a lot more players like Sasa Ogenovski, Matthew Leckie and Ivan Franjic (all Melbourne boys)

 

To many players fall through the cracks here in Aus, and we can't afford that with the small number of talented footballers we produce.

 

Agree. Why not allow part-time professionals to be retained by clubs as well?

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xXJawsaXx

xXJawsaXx

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Posted

 

I still think the FFA should scrap the Australian Marquee spot and change it to an Asian Marquee spot.

I assume by Asian Marquee, you mean anyone from the AFC confederation (incl. Aus)?

If so, I think that would be a good idea, brought up the same point with a mate not long ago.

 

 

There needs to be extra salary made available just for the ACL squads as this would allow the Aussie teams to compete whilst also  allowing the A League to remain viable.

 

If all bets were off in terms of salaries in the A league only 3 or 4 clubs would survive and prosper IMO (Heart, Victory, Sydney and maybe WSW)

 

Would that not create a situation like in the Premier League, with the top teams able to constantly repeat their success due to having far more money to spend, and no other teams ever getting a sniff?

 

I agree. I think that 23 man squads are too thin for teams to be able to be competitive in two competitions, 3 with the FFA cup coming and that will overlap even more with our season in 2015.

I think something that the FFA should look in to (and something I know clubs pushed for in the past) is to keep the salary cap in place, but removing the restriction on a 23 man squad max, which would cost them nothing.

 

This could encourage clubs to sign the cream of the crop players from state league comps or take a risk on NYL players who MIGHT have what it takes. It will even give more of a chance to mature aged players that may be overlooked solely because of their DOB.

 

This way we could unearth a lot more players like Sasa Ogenovski, Matthew Leckie and Ivan Franjic (all Melbourne boys)

 

To many players fall through the cracks here in Aus, and we can't afford that with the small number of talented footballers we produce.

 

Yes haha, so basically an A-League club could sign a marquee player from Iran as well as one from Europe, South America, whatever.

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Falastur

Falastur

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Agree. Why not allow part-time professionals to be retained by clubs as well?

 

A couple of questions, if I may?

 

- What's the drop-off in quality like between the A-League and the NPLs and NYL? Also, are NYL teams actually treated as seperate teams? I've never come across teams having to sign their own youth players in order to give them senior appearances before I looked into the A-League.

 

- Can you not do what you can do in the PL, and use youth players outside of the 23 man squad?

 

Also, is a 23-man squad really too little for the A-League and FFA Cup? So far, Manchester City have played 42 games in all competitions and could still have to play another 22 games, but we're restricted to a 25-man squad plus youths, and have only played 25 different players.

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jw1739

jw1739

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Agree. Why not allow part-time professionals to be retained by clubs as well?

 

A couple of questions, if I may?

 

- What's the drop-off in quality like between the A-League and the NPLs and NYL? Also, are NYL teams actually treated as seperate teams? I've never come across teams having to sign their own youth players in order to give them senior appearances before I looked into the A-League.

 

- Can you not do what you can do in the PL, and use youth players outside of the 23 man squad?

 

Also, is a 23-man squad really too little for the A-League and FFA Cup? So far, Manchester City have played 42 games in all competitions and could still have to play another 22 games, but we're restricted to a 25-man squad plus youths, and have only played 25 different players.

 

In answer to your final question...there's a short thread about that on here http://mhfcsupporters.com/topic/2549-is-the-a-league-too-soft/

 

In fairness though, there are mitigating factors such as the travelling distances involved and the various climatic conditions players have to face - a team might be in Perth one week and Wellington the next. You would face that in some competitions, but not in your domestic competitions.

 

And if a team progresses to the ACL then these factors are greatly magnified.

Edited by jw1739
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