Melburnian Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Aloisi - has more regard for destroying a game, then winning it. It echoes our club. No adventure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman Cain Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I really think people just have it in their head that Hoffman is shit and don't actually pay attention to his performance. I thought he did quite well and looked a lot more confident. He will have a good season. I'd much rather talk about how shit Aloisi, Golgol, and Williams were. Has been going on for a while. Sure he got beaten a few times, but he also put in a fair few successful tackles and held his own. Anyone would have a tough time at right back when the opposition have 70% possession and are targeting that wing. The real problems are elsewhere. I've defended The Hoff for a number of seasons. I can see the rest of the players improving, I can't see him as a RB. We've lost our attacking width and our right side has been targeted in 3 games out of 3 - not a coincidence. I agree with you that he wasn't the only problem today, our lack of a midfield press exposed him more than he deserved, but we won't have any width in attack with him as RB I agree. Like most people I would prefer Walker, but for what he's there for Hoff is doing a reasonable job. I just don't see the point of the constant focus on him when there are far larger problems. The problems are systemic - Hoffman is not the cause, and Harry/Mifsud/Engelaar/whoever else are not the solution. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marn11 Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Aloisi - has more regard for destroying a game, then winning it. It echoes our club. No adventure. Good to have you back. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benzema23 Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 maybe it was hard for the boys because it's warmer in Perth #justsaying Predicted 33 and sunny on Sunday in Brisbane Oh my god, we've got a cod red. Someone get Aloisi on the phone now!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Yes, the problem is systemic. We have a whole swag of new players in the team this year, and a whole swag of good young players to call on in the NYL squad. The problem is not the players, it is the way they are instructed to play, and it is the coach who insists that we play this way. Therefore it is the coach who must be changed. I don't mind losing. I just want to see us go out there and give it passion, endeavour, pride in the shirt and respect for the fans. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Aloisi - has more regard for destroying a game, then winning it. It echoes our club. No adventure. Just who we needed. Captain negativity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD. Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 First interstate game of the year, yes we lost, yes we played shit, but stop being so bitter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melburnian Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Aloisi - has more regard for destroying a game, then winning it. It echoes our club. No adventure. Good to have you back. Thanks for the warm welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGaffer Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 (edited) 15 games or 698 days since we last won a game outside of Victoria. December 29, 2011 in Sydney 0-4!!!! The A-League record is 17 games so come next week we will be odds on to equal that record when we play The Jets on Nov 24 and then break it against Wanderers on Dec 7......I would hate to include the practise games too else it would be in the mid 20s... Nothing at all has changed from last year apart from some of the faces on the field. Edited October 27, 2013 by TheGaffer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melburnian Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Aloisi - has more regard for destroying a game, then winning it. It echoes our club. No adventure. Just who we needed. Captain negativity Who are ya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defibrillator Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Same shit, same shovel. Amazing how high hopes and expectations can be dashed. The only positive for me was we showed a flicker of spirit right to the end - last year we would have packed up by half time. And thank god for Wielardt - seriously kept us in it. But time is coming and coming soon where a decision needs to be made. We won't win a cracker with that style of play and we won't accumulate points with that rubbish. Three more weeks of crap and the season's looking dodgy. Tough times require bold action. I didn't see it last year, and I get the feeling I won't see it this year. Play a kid in midfield to give some spark, make a sub early when someone has obviously mentally not shown up, just fucking tell the lads to attack without fear or we'll try a kid who will, stop bombing the ball to a 5'4" CF. It's not rocket surgery. And if JA is worried about holding on to his job by playing experienced players he needs to look at all the great managers around the world. If it ain't working, you must change or you're next to be spat off the production line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhiteSoldier Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 at least Chelsea have success and fans.... I hate saying it but its true. at least my Liverpool are shining 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchPride Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I want to post what I think Aloisi is doing wrong and how it can be altered to be improved, and it will be a mind-blowing post, but I can't be fucked writing it at this moment, bare with me, it'll come. I'm just not one for writing essays seeing as I don't have to anymore xd 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podium Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 If Kisnorbo is injured, we will be coping goals right, left and centre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I really think people just have it in their head that Hoffman is shit and don't actually pay attention to his performance. I thought he did quite well and looked a lot more confident. He will have a good season. I'd much rather talk about how shit Aloisi, Golgol, and Williams were. Has been going on for a while. Sure he got beaten a few times, but he also put in a fair few successful tackles and held his own. Anyone would have a tough time at right back when the opposition have 70% possession and are targeting that wing. The real problems are elsewhere. I've defended The Hoff for a number of seasons. I can see the rest of the players improving, I can't see him as a RB. We've lost our attacking width and our right side has been targeted in 3 games out of 3 - not a coincidence. I agree with you that he wasn't the only problem today, our lack of a midfield press exposed him more than he deserved, but we won't have any width in attack with him as RB I agree. Like most people I would prefer Walker, but for what he's there for Hoff is doing a reasonable job. I just don't see the point of the constant focus on him when there are far larger problems. The problems are systemic - Hoffman is not the cause, and Harry/Mifsud/Engelaar/whoever else are not the solution. I'm not focusing on him, opposition teams are focusing on him. He isn't the only problem, our midfield needs to protect him by counter-pressing. They pressed a little in the second half and that released some of the pressure on The Hoff. I'm more worried that Kisnorbo has done his ACL again. We'll look better with Kewell and Engelaar, remember that the creative spine of the team that we recruited is not playing. I'm not defending JA, just saying that we have to be realistic when those key players are absent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heart4Life Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 What a disgrace. I've been to every heart game but two over their 4 year existence and have watched every away game on tv. But seriously if the boys are going to but in that shit week in week out, I refuse to watch the game next week. After last year I have really had enough. The club is going no where soon under JA. And the lads out on the pitch just don't seem to want it and seem content on being a second rate club. Where's the culture or commitment? No other club would stand for what we are at the moment. We are the worst team in Australia at the moment and I don't think anyone can question that. Our game plan relies on lucky nothing more nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 What a disgrace. I've been to every heart game but two over their 4 year existence and have watched every away game on tv. But seriously if the boys are going to but in that shit week in week out, I refuse to watch the game next week. After last year I have really had enough. The club is going no where soon under JA. And the lads out on the pitch just don't seem to want it and seem content on being a second rate club. Where's the culture or commitment? No other club would stand for what we are at the moment. We are the worst team in Australia at the moment and I don't think anyone can question that. Our game plan relies on lucky nothing more nothing less. No, Newcastle are worse but we do have to improve a lot and quickly or we'll be struggling to get 5000 at home games. Our away games are a problem that need to be fixed next week. I do think that a message to the players/club at the next home game is overdue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 We need a new head coach. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melburnian Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 We need a new head coach. Never been more obvious than now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyheart Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 maybe it was hard for the boys because it's warmer in Perth #justsaying Predicted 33 and sunny on Sunday in Brisbane Nice. Bring on the pre game drinks! Just not the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartinHobart Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 maybe it was hard for the boys because it's warmer in Perth #justsayingPredicted 33 and sunny on Sunday in Brisbane Nice. Bring on the pre game drinks! Just not the match. Keen for this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melbournehammer Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I really think people just have it in their head that Hoffman is shit and don't actually pay attention to his performance. I thought he did quite well and looked a lot more confident. He will have a good season. I'd much rather talk about how shit Aloisi, Golgol, and Williams were. Has been going on for a while. Sure he got beaten a few times, but he also put in a fair few successful tackles and held his own. Anyone would have a tough time at right back when the opposition have 70% possession and are targeting that wing. The real problems are elsewhere. I've defended The Hoff for a number of seasons. I can see the rest of the players improving, I can't see him as a RB. We've lost our attacking width and our right side has been targeted in 3 games out of 3 - not a coincidence. I agree with you that he wasn't the only problem today, our lack of a midfield press exposed him more than he deserved, but we won't have any width in attack with him as RB I agree. Like most people I would prefer Walker, but for what he's there for Hoff is doing a reasonable job. I just don't see the point of the constant focus on him when there are far larger problems. The problems are systemic - Hoffman is not the cause, and Harry/Mifsud/Engelaar/whoever else are not the solution. This. If we are going to play 4-3-3 away from home then whoever is playing in front of Hoffman must actually track back. Having gol gol wide on the right while they just casually stroll through our midfield is frustrating, but whether it is him, mate, Williams they have to actually defend not just jog around on the halfway line preening themselves for some miracle 60 metre pass. Murdocca has played very well for two games but until he gets some support I think we are going to be stuffed, and support means someone else who can receive the ball and pass and move. All in all disappointing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 If we want to play with width we rely on our full backs to attack and bring the ball forward. This leaves us open at the back unless the midfielders support the CBs in defensive transition by pressing. We aren't doing this. Alternatively if we have very aggressive RB and LB we can reduce the width of our opponents by forcing their full backs to defend more in their defensive third. This isn't happening especially on the right as Hoffman is not pushing forward much. either on coach's instructions or because he is focusing on defending. In combination we lacked width in attack and spent almost the whole first half with Hoffman under pressure and with an almost non-existent midfield, a repeat of last season or even worse because at least last season we had Marrone or Walker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heart of Melbourne Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 First interstate game of the year, yes we lost, yes we played shit, but stop being so bitter. JD, please hand in your resignation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 First interstate game of the year, yes we lost, yes we played shit, but stop being so bitter. If you're *the* JD, even if you're not, you've missed the point. The "bitterness" is not born out of this one game, but of more than 2 years of shit football and insipid player effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellum Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 If we want to play with width we rely on our full backs to attack and bring the ball forward. This leaves us open at the back unless the midfielders support the CBs in defensive transition by pressing. We aren't doing this. Alternatively if we have very aggressive RB and LB we can reduce the width of our opponents by forcing their full backs to defend more in their defensive third. This isn't happening especially on the right as Hoffman is not pushing forward much. either on coach's instructions or because he is focusing on defending. In combination we lacked width in attack and spent almost the whole first half with Hoffman under pressure and with an almost non-existent midfield, a repeat of last season or even worse because at least last season we had Marrone or Walker. When was the last time our fullbacks overlapped regularly during a game? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 One thing that I found ridiculous is the tactic of hoofing it from defense to a striker that was totally unsuited to hoofball. And this goes back to JVS's days when we hoofed it to a 5 foot Alex Terra, to a tall but totally ineffective aerialist like Babalj, then to Tadic who was the same type as Babalj. And we continue this utterly stupid tactic with Mifsud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannon Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 gol gol just does not deserve the praise he gets and hoffman his a great bloke and his trying but fuck why walker dosnt have first choice is beyond me it was lucky smelts wasnt playing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 If we want to play with width we rely on our full backs to attack and bring the ball forward. This leaves us open at the back unless the midfielders support the CBs in defensive transition by pressing. We aren't doing this. Alternatively if we have very aggressive RB and LB we can reduce the width of our opponents by forcing their full backs to defend more in their defensive third. This isn't happening especially on the right as Hoffman is not pushing forward much. either on coach's instructions or because he is focusing on defending. In combination we lacked width in attack and spent almost the whole first half with Hoffman under pressure and with an almost non-existent midfield, a repeat of last season or even worse because at least last season we had Marrone or Walker. When was the last time our fullbacks overlapped regularly during a game? I agree, it doesn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I really think people just have it in their head that Hoffman is shit and don't actually pay attention to his performance. I thought he did quite well and looked a lot more confident. He will have a good season. I'd much rather talk about how shit Aloisi, Golgol, and Williams were. Has been going on for a while. Sure he got beaten a few times, but he also put in a fair few successful tackles and held his own. Anyone would have a tough time at right back when the opposition have 70% possession and are targeting that wing. The real problems are elsewhere. I've defended The Hoff for a number of seasons. I can see the rest of the players improving, I can't see him as a RB. We've lost our attacking width and our right side has been targeted in 3 games out of 3 - not a coincidence. I agree with you that he wasn't the only problem today, our lack of a midfield press exposed him more than he deserved, but we won't have any width in attack with him as RB I agree. Like most people I would prefer Walker, but for what he's there for Hoff is doing a reasonable job. I just don't see the point of the constant focus on him when there are far larger problems. The problems are systemic - Hoffman is not the cause, and Harry/Mifsud/Engelaar/whoever else are not the solution. I'm not focusing on him, opposition teams are focusing on him. He isn't the only problem, our midfield needs to protect him by counter-pressing. They pressed a little in the second half and that released some of the pressure on The Hoff. I'm more worried that Kisnorbo has done his ACL again. We'll look better with Kewell and Engelaar, remember that the creative spine of the team that we recruited is not playing. I'm not defending JA, just saying that we have to be realistic when those key players are absent I think this is an important point. Aloisi intended to have this midfield: ------------Kewell------------ Engelaar-------Murdocca- Instead, we have this: -----------Williams---------- Migliorini-----Murdocca--- I think it goes without saying that our football would be very different if we weren't missing these 2 key midfielders, Kewell and Engelaar, which Heart (and Aloisi) targeted for a long time and worked hard to sign. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 One thing that I found ridiculous is the tactic of hoofing it from defense to a striker that was totally unsuited to hoofball. And this goes back to JVS's days when we hoofed it to a 5 foot Alex Terra, to a tall but totally ineffective aerialist like Babalj, then to Tadic who was the same type as Babalj. And we continue this utterly stupid tactic with Mifsud. I've run out of likes but agree. The answer though is we've done it since we've had an ineffective midfield. Kewell and Engelaar will fix it but good player positioning and tactics will also fix it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 (edited) I really think people just have it in their head that Hoffman is shit and don't actually pay attention to his performance. I thought he did quite well and looked a lot more confident. He will have a good season. I'd much rather talk about how shit Aloisi, Golgol, and Williams were. Has been going on for a while. Sure he got beaten a few times, but he also put in a fair few successful tackles and held his own. Anyone would have a tough time at right back when the opposition have 70% possession and are targeting that wing. The real problems are elsewhere. I've defended The Hoff for a number of seasons. I can see the rest of the players improving, I can't see him as a RB. We've lost our attacking width and our right side has been targeted in 3 games out of 3 - not a coincidence. I agree with you that he wasn't the only problem today, our lack of a midfield press exposed him more than he deserved, but we won't have any width in attack with him as RB I agree. Like most people I would prefer Walker, but for what he's there for Hoff is doing a reasonable job. I just don't see the point of the constant focus on him when there are far larger problems. The problems are systemic - Hoffman is not the cause, and Harry/Mifsud/Engelaar/whoever else are not the solution. I'm not focusing on him, opposition teams are focusing on him. He isn't the only problem, our midfield needs to protect him by counter-pressing. They pressed a little in the second half and that released some of the pressure on The Hoff. I'm more worried that Kisnorbo has done his ACL again. We'll look better with Kewell and Engelaar, remember that the creative spine of the team that we recruited is not playing. I'm not defending JA, just saying that we have to be realistic when those key players are absent I think this is an important point. Aloisi intended to have this midfield: ------------Kewell------------ Engelaar-------Murdocca- Instead, we have this: -----------Williams---------- Migliorini-----Murdocca--- I think it goes without saying that our football would be very different if we weren't missing these 2 key midfielders, Kewell and Engelaar, which Heart (and Aloisi) targeted for a long time and worked hard to sign. Logic would suggest that, but I'm seriously questioning it. You'd think if that was in Aloisi's repertoire he would have already developed that with all of his midfielders. Logic would suggest that you don't play moon balls to a 5'4" centre forward as well, but we did. At least today answered one of my questions about how we would use Mifsud. Edited October 27, 2013 by Kiro Kompiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellum Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 If we want to play with width we rely on our full backs to attack and bring the ball forward. This leaves us open at the back unless the midfielders support the CBs in defensive transition by pressing. We aren't doing this. Alternatively if we have very aggressive RB and LB we can reduce the width of our opponents by forcing their full backs to defend more in their defensive third. This isn't happening especially on the right as Hoffman is not pushing forward much. either on coach's instructions or because he is focusing on defending. In combination we lacked width in attack and spent almost the whole first half with Hoffman under pressure and with an almost non-existent midfield, a repeat of last season or even worse because at least last season we had Marrone or Walker. When was the last time our fullbacks overlapped regularly during a game? I agree, it doesn't happen. This is one of the most notable things when you compare the two managers. The fullbacks were very important under JVS, not only did the overlapping create attacking opportunities, but the fullbacks where the only real option 2 for playing out from the back under JVS, especially against the victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedukeofhearts Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I have a feeling that the tone and subjects talked about in this thread is going to be a common feature of these match day threads again this season. I really don't see anything changing soon. We'll probably play the odd good game and get a few wins at home and then go back to the same old shit. That's the problem I see. JA just doing enough not to get sacked because we are 'improving' then just going back to the same old and then just doing enough again. Long term, we will never get anywhere unless decisions are made. Only the 3rd game but time flies when you'r playing shit !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I think it goes without saying that our football would be very different if we weren't missing these 2 key midfielders, Kewell and Engelaar, which Heart (and Aloisi) targeted for a long time and worked hard to sign. Murf, I usually agree with your posts, but not this one mate. It would be different if we were Borussia Dortmund. It would be different if we were Barcelona. It would be different if... The issue is that it isn't any different whoever we have playing in midfield. It's the same shit as last season. Doesn't matter who we play there. Or in fact in the defence or the forwards. We're just not winning. We must stop looking for that magic bullet, that player who is going to solve all our problems. We've already got good individual players all over the park. It's the style of play that is at fault, and it all goes back to the gaffer. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 (edited) I think it should be said that this match shouldn't be seen as THE indicator for how our whole season will go. Some perspective. 4 teams made the finals last season with 9 or more losses (3th place had 9 losses, 4th place 10, 5th 12 and 6th 13). So getting 2 points and our first loss by round 3 isn't a big deal. I'd still like to see at least another 2 or 3 games before I speculate what kind of football we'll play for the rest of the season. Perth were awful round 1 and round 2, but their style evolved a lot by round 3 against us. I reckon our football will evolve, and in particular our attack. We have 2 new CBs and an entirely new midfield (compared to last season, every round has had a midfield we've never used before), so it probably shouldn't be too surprising that we don't play a lot of great slick passes by our 3rd game. Also, anyone who thinks Migliorini and Williams are as good as Engelaar and Kewell is insane. Nonetheless, despite the upheaval Heart should be playing better. I think Aloisi could have put out different players and maybe have gotten more out of this game. And I expect better in the coming rounds. As I said in pre-season, if things are bad after 8-10 games, the club should consider axing the manager. But I want to see more evidence before such a decision has to be made. Edited October 27, 2013 by Murfy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellum Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I think it goes without saying that our football would be very different if we weren't missing these 2 key midfielders, Kewell and Engelaar, which Heart (and Aloisi) targeted for a long time and worked hard to sign. Murf, I usually agree with your posts, but not this one mate. It would be different if we were Borussia Dortmund. It would be different if we were Barcelona. It would be different if... The issue is that it isn't any different whoever we have playing in midfield. It's the same shit as last season. Doesn't matter who we play there. Or in fact in the defence or the forwards. We're just not winning. We must stop looking for that magic bullet, that player who is going to solve all our problems. We've already got good individual players all over the park. It's the style of play that is at fault, and it all goes back to the gaffer. There is no structure for those players to fit into so I can't see how they will improve things apart from the odd moment of class. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartofmelbourne12 Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 At least our youth team won out of melbourne 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepdog Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Such a massive disappointment. After all the buzz and excitement off season, coupled with a respectable first 2 games against quality opposition, our team is back to the same position we were at the end of last season. Unable to get a result against a team we should beat either home/away/the fucking moon, we find ourselves back to square one. We played terrible. Absolute shite. Nothing has changed. Is it a lack of respect for the coach or is his game plan seriously that deluded? Gonna be a long season if we keep being served that crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Any news on Paddy K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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