Domestic Politics

[Tesla]

But that's exactly my point, that theoretically it is fairly easy, I'm fully aware that in reality that isn't the case and there lies the problem.

The way I see it, federal government is always going to want to take more power so I wouldn't expect them to ever try to reverse it. If you look at countries where Federalism is still strong (eg the US, even though it is being eroded there slowly as well), it's usually the states that really fight for and assert their rights, as well as the general population having strong beliefs in favour of Federalism, especially in certain areas (the south), which also makes it hard for the federal government to take too much power.

In Australia, the general population doesn't really care, and I think Federalism has been eroded so much that many people don't even really see the point of state government anymore which makes it worse.

Sorry, but your original post didn't really read like someone who has conceded that the Federal Government is never going to return certain Taxes to the states...

 

Also as Shahanga correctly pointed out as far as States Rights are concerned I think you will find PPL in WA, SA, Tasmania, QLD, and the NT are all obsessed with State Rights, in fact its one of the more popular political discussions "Non Political PPL" have in these states and territories. I know that is only half the country but its still a majority of the country's states... but agree Victorian State Politics did seem more like the big time under Kennett.

 

I know you love going on about Small Government but TBH "True Small Government" IMO is as big a myth as a "Working Socialist State"... that belongs in a post WW2 World. The last true small Federal Governments in the bastion of Small Government that you have mentioned in that of the USA collapsed into a heap in the Great Depression under Hoover.

 

Since then under mainly Republican Presidents and mainly Republican Controlled Houses of Congress - Government's in the States have gotten nothing but bigger and once they grow they never give up their power even if its their supposed prime political policy. This is just to do with the mechanics of getting Government to work with growing populations than any Political Theory.

 

The last Republican President in Bush for example spent fuckloads more domestically alongside expanding the arms Government predecessor in Clinton.

To me "Small Government" in the States has even less meaning to when Labor say "Health and Education" or the Libs "More Jobs" come election time over here which as all no is not much than that of a boring catch cry.

Well you're right, I dont concede it will never happen, I still remain hopeful it will happen at some point. But I'm also not under any allusions as to the political reality. I do think that there will be tax reform soon, seems to be on the agenda, but I don't expect there to be too much interest from the federal government in moving taxes to the states, only thing that will likely come of it for the states is a wider GST base and possibly a higher GST rate.

You make a good point about those other states, unlike you I haven't lived in any of them so have only ever experienced Victoria, but I have noticed that it does seem to be more of an issue in the media more when it comes to WA and Qld. I'm sure it's the case in those other states but since there less significant I haven't really noticed it too much in relation to those others (thought it does explain a few things now that you mention it).

I think you'll find that since the Bush government (because he did go so overboard with spending), there has been a reasonably amount of noise within the Republican party to return to what many see as more traditional conservative values as opposed to the neo-conservatives that have dominated the Republican party in modern times. The establishment and popularity of the Tea Party movement is evidence of that. While it's obviously not the case that someone from that camp is going to receive the Republican nomination, they certainly could go the distance given that they are likely to receive large funding, and it's also likely the running mate will once again be someone from this camp, as the last two republican running mates have been (further highlighting the growing influence). You'll also find that the current US government has actually made a significant achievement in that the US Federal Deficit is now decreasing. A large part of this is due to the Republican controlled house and senate utilising their influence, which I think highlights were the Republican party currently sits on government spending and small government. So I think there is sufficient reason to believe that if there is a Republican government after the next election, it will be quite different to the Bush government, in regard to government size and spending at least.

Though fucking Jeb Bush is the favourite for the nomination, haven't paid too much attention to US politics in recent times but being a Bush I'm not expecting too much from him on the economic front. But after that pretty much all the other serious contenders (Walker, Rubio, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz) are very much fiscal conservatives, with Walker having turned around a massive deficit into a surplus in his state while cutting taxes, Rubio being the Tea Party's man, Rand Paul the fucking name says it all (seriously is this guy named after Ayn Rand? Wouldn't put it past his father), and Ted Cruz of course being the guy who influenced the government shutdowns over spending measures.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Tesla

[cadete]

 

 

But that's exactly my point, that theoretically it is fairly easy, I'm fully aware that in reality that isn't the case and there lies the problem.

The way I see it, federal government is always going to want to take more power so I wouldn't expect them to ever try to reverse it. If you look at countries where Federalism is still strong (eg the US, even though it is being eroded there slowly as well), it's usually the states that really fight for and assert their rights, as well as the general population having strong beliefs in favour of Federalism, especially in certain areas (the south), which also makes it hard for the federal government to take too much power.

In Australia, the general population doesn't really care, and I think Federalism has been eroded so much that many people don't even really see the point of state government anymore which makes it worse.

Sorry, but your original post didn't really read like someone who has conceded that the Federal Government is never going to return certain Taxes to the states...

 

Also as Shahanga correctly pointed out as far as States Rights are concerned I think you will find PPL in WA, SA, Tasmania, QLD, and the NT are all obsessed with State Rights, in fact its one of the more popular political discussions "Non Political PPL" have in these states and territories. I know that is only half the country but its still a majority of the country's states... but agree Victorian State Politics did seem more like the big time under Kennett.

 

I know you love going on about Small Government but TBH "True Small Government" IMO is as big a myth as a "Working Socialist State"... that belongs in a post WW2 World. The last true small Federal Governments in the bastion of Small Government that you have mentioned in that of the USA collapsed into a heap in the Great Depression under Hoover.

 

Since then under mainly Republican Presidents and mainly Republican Controlled Houses of Congress - Government's in the States have gotten nothing but bigger and once they grow they never give up their power even if its their supposed prime political policy. This is just to do with the mechanics of getting Government to work with growing populations than any Political Theory.

 

The last Republican President in Bush for example spent fuckloads more domestically alongside expanding the arms Government predecessor in Clinton.

To me "Small Government" in the States has even less meaning to when Labor say "Health and Education" or the Libs "More Jobs" come election time over here which as all no is not much than that of a boring catch cry.

 

Well you're right, I dont concede it will never happen, I still remain hopeful it will happen at some point. But I'm also not under any allusions as to the political reality. I do think that there will be tax reform soon, seems to be on the agenda, but I don't expect there to be too much interest from the federal government in moving taxes to the states, only thing that will likely come of it for the states is a wider GST base and possibly a higher GST rate.

You make a good point about those other states, unlike you I haven't lived in any of them so have only ever experienced Victoria, but I have noticed that it does seem to be more of an issue in the media more when it comes to WA and Qld. I'm sure it's the case in those other states but since there less significant I haven't really noticed it too much in relation to those others (thought it does explain a few things now that you mention it).

I think you'll find that since the Bush government (because he did go so overboard with spending), there has been a reasonably amount of noise within the Republican party to return to what many see as more traditional conservative values as opposed to the neo-conservatives that have dominated the Republican party in modern times. The establishment and popularity of the Tea Party movement is evidence of that. While it's obviously not the case that someone from that camp is going to receive the Republican nomination, they certainly could go the distance given that they are likely to receive large funding, and it's also likely the running mate will once again be someone from this camp, as the last two republican running mates have been (further highlighting the growing influence). You'll also find that the current US government has actually made a significant achievement in that the US Federal Deficit is now decreasing. A large part of this is due to the Republican controlled house and senate utilising their influence, which I think highlights were the Republican party currently sits on government spending and small government. So I think there is sufficient reason to believe that if there is a Republican government after the next election, it will be quite different to the Bush government, in regard to government size and spending at least.

Though fucking Jeb Bush is the favourite for the nomination, haven't paid too much attention to US politics in recent times but being a Bush I'm not expecting too much from him on the economic front. But after that pretty much all the other serious contenders (Walker, Rubio, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz) are very much fiscal conservatives, with Walker having turned around a massive deficit into a surplus in his state while cutting taxes, Rubio being the Tea Party's man, Rand Paul the fucking name says it all (seriously is this guy named after Ayn Rand? Wouldn't put it past his father), and Ted Cruz of course being the guy who influenced the government shutdowns over spending measures.

 

As far as States getting better treatment...

 

It will never happen because the Federal Government will not only never give up its influence, but the way the Constitution was written in only listing Federal Powers and not States the High Court has almost always/and will continue to almost always very liberally rule in favour of the Federal Government's favour. (Arguing whether these have been correct decisions is another discussion)

 

Ted Cruz - I agree is the interesting candidate in terms of Small Government as he has been able to at a much lower level run a Government in some sort of "Small Government" way than most others in the USA.

 

Also as far as I am concerned The Tea Party are joke but then again in US Politics despite my dislike of Obama (Due to him being the worst President since Carter) I am firmly a democrat. 

Edited May 18, 2015 by cadete

[Tesla]

If you mean they are a joke because you don't like their ideology then fair enough, but if you think they're a joke in terms of their influence then I'd disagree because they certainly have had a decent amount of influence on the Republican party.

Lol even I'm not far off being a Democrat by US standards, they're probably more right wing than the Liberal party here.

As for Obama, that's what you get when you elect someone as president only because of their race (a white guy with his background wouldn't have even been a serious candidate for the nomination). Wouldn't surprise me if the Democrats get another Presidential win at the next election based primarily on their nominee being a female (to be fair Hillary does has some credentials, but being a female certainly wouldn't hurt).

[cadete]

If you mean they are a joke because you don't like their ideology then fair enough, but if you think they're a joke in terms of their influence then I'd disagree because they certainly have had a decent amount of influence on the Republican party.

Lol even I'm not far off being a Democrat by US standards, they're probably more right wing than the Liberal party here.

As for Obama, that's what you get when you elect someone as president only because of their race (a white guy with his background wouldn't have even been a serious candidate for the nomination). Wouldn't surprise me if the Democrats get another Presidential win at the next election based primarily on their nominee being a female (to be fair Hillary does has some credentials, but being a female certainly wouldn't hurt).

I think the Tea Party are a joke because they may yield influence (As do the Greens/Clive Palmer over here in the Senate) but also because I am a fierce realist as you know...  and they are as stupidly idealistic as the PPL you complain about in this thread in half your of posts.

 

That's my point about "Small Government" just like "Marxism" it's a Economic Theory that sounds very logical in some ways on a piece of paper but is completely impractical in the day to day running of Government.

 

Whether being from the far left or far right I despise "Unelectable Political Movements" which the Tea Party is def one because they just hurt the political process by convincing PPL on the fringes that the impossible is possible... when it's not.

 

I think we are just lucky that these idealistic types generally dont find themselves in the major parties of Australian Politics due to proportional representation allowing for Minor Parties and if they do operate in a Major Party it's at best as a Unknown Candidate for a Major Parties in seats that they will never win.

Edited May 19, 2015 by cadete

[thisphantomfortress]

Andrew's government announcing first level crossings to go; Glen Iris, Ormond, Bentleigh and McKinnon. Marginal seats in the East hardly a surprise.

 

 

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/first-to-go-level-crossings-in-melbournes-southeast-top-andrews-election-promise-todo-list-20150519-gh4t2r.html

Edited May 19, 2015 by thisphantomfortress

[cadete]

Andrew's government announcing first level crossings to go; Glen Iris, Ormond, Bentleigh and McKinnon. Marginal seats in the East hardly a surprise.

 

 

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/first-to-go-level-crossings-in-melbournes-southeast-top-andrews-election-promise-todo-list-20150519-gh4t2r.html

I would hardly call Glen Iris marginal...

 

But that crossing has been one of the worst in the state since forever... a pity Bell Street is not on that list.

[thisphantomfortress]

Three of the four are marginal seats. Glen Iris is a shocker, up there with how bad Nunawading used to be. FWIW I pretty much support any removal of level crossings just more interested by the choice of locations.

[cadete]

Three of the four are marginal seats. Glen Iris is a shocker, up there with how bad Nunawading used to be. FWIW I pretty much support any removal of level crossings just more interested by the choice of locations.

I would have thought Bell Street could have been a good first choice...

 

Something to show to the Inner North Vote Wasting Community (Which must use that crossing a lot even if its not in their electorate) what a party who can win office can actually do when in power.

 

As opposed to when you elect a Greens Nerd who does nothing but give ridiculous idealistic soundbite statements at the end of the News stories about a Government's announcing its actually doing something.

(If they need a particular News story padded out that is.)

Edited May 19, 2015 by cadete

[Moraiwe]

Bell St have never seemed that bad to me, then again I grew up living in Reservoir which might need an atom bomb to correct the mess that is the Edwards/Spring/High/Broadway/Reservoir Station convergence.  But unless the Greens become a major player, it will never happen being in a seat that the Liberals don't care about and Labor takes for granted.  In short, avoid Reservoir at all costs!

[Tesla]

Weren't some of those started and funded by the previous government? Pre construction work has started on St Albans as well but that's another one from the previous government. Apparently Labor are trying to include the other St Albans crossing at Furlong Rd in the same contract so I'm guessing that's why they haven't claimed it yet.

[hedaik]

Biggest joke if those 3 Isis fighters are allowed back into Australia

[cadete]

Biggest joke if those 3 Isis fighters are allowed back into Australia

I want them back: Bring them back and put them in some cells with some Bikie's... I a more than happy for this to occur.

[hedaik]

Biggest joke if those 3 Isis fighters are allowed back into Australia

I want them back: Bring them back and put them in some cells with some Bikie's... I a more than happy for this to occur.

Just as much chance of them turning against the system again (even if they truly have changed their mind) and recruiting again in gaol.

[thisphantomfortress]

 

Just as much chance of them turning against the system again (even if they truly have changed their mind) and recruiting again in gaol.

 

You get a like for using the proper spelling.

 

TBH I think that I'd rather they were incarcerated here than running wild overseas.

[AyeCee]

Biggest joke if those 3 Isis fighters are allowed back into Australia

I want them back: Bring them back and put them in some cells with some Bikie's... I a more than happy for this to occur.

Keeping them over there is pretty much the same as placing them in jail here, in fact it's probably a bigger punishment to force them to live in such a shithole.

And they'll wind up dead over there anyway, the US will flatten their camp without even blinking.

The thing that annoys me is that there is always furore about criminals being released from jail early and then recommitting crime. The question is always 'why do they get let out at all?'

Yet we're now considering letting people who have actively decided that they are against the morals and culture of our society and have fought against us back into the country

[cadete]

Seriously every time I see an article about IS on facebook I almost always see someone eventually make a comment like this underneath it.

 

 

Can PPL get any more retarded... if these types like Peter FitzSimmons really think this shit maybe they can holiday in Syria and not Rome next Winter.

[bt50]

Easy fix - shoot them on the spot.

[Deviant]

 

Biggest joke if those 3 Isis fighters are allowed back into Australia

I want them back: Bring them back and put them in some cells with some Bikie's... I a more than happy for this to occur.

 

My guess would be that the bikies would recruit them. 

[thisphantomfortress]

Easy fix - shoot them on the spot.

BT50 on track for Nobel Peace Prize, such compassion

[Deviant]

I can't believe this topic still divides this nation?

These specific people have shown their true persona by turning their back on the country that has supported them, their family and provided for you and yours!

 

What could be a possible reason excuse, plausible enough, to allow such weak minded individuals back in here? 

Do they miss the free education and decent health system?

 

The seed had been planted, the tree flourished and this is the outcome. 

It's happened in the past, it's happening again now and will happen again if both parties aren't educated.

 

Furthermore, when you have people boycotting ANZAC day, a day that celebrates the shaping of our nation. Antagonising retired servicemen and women while they celebrate the lives of loved ones and fallen brethren... you know there's a fucking problem. 

 

This nation needs a stronger and unified foundation to grow on. Too many people have a voice and this then leads to the blind leading the blind.

[cadete]

 

 

Easy fix - shoot them on the spot.

BT50 on track for Nobel Peace Prize, such compassion

 

I dont believe in the Death Penalty in any circumstances, I also believe a life in jail with Mental Illness is a crueller more suitable punishment for these parasites.

 

However, why should the word compassion be used in a conversation about these PPL?

A bunch of blokes who believe that the compassion that they should shown to anyone who does belong to their religious sect is nothing else but Death.

 

I think certain PPL in the Left on social media need to remember the following ISIS policies on the following PPL:

An Atheist - Death

A Socialist - Death

Non Covered Woman - Death

Homosexual - Death

 

Its not just North Sydney Catholics that ISIS believe should be dead.

Edited May 20, 2015 by cadete

[Shahanga]

This dumping of paid parental leave for mothers who get it from their employers is a bit odd.

Why would a company now offer it at all if the government will just pay for it instead?

It has since come to my attention that it's pretty much only the public service that has an employer scheme, so not many companies offered it anyway.

[hedaik]

 

This dumping of paid parental leave for mothers who get it from their employers is a bit odd.

Why would a company now offer it at all if the government will just pay for it instead?

It has since come to my attention that it's pretty much only the public service that has an employer scheme, so not many companies offered it anyway.

 

 

It would be much more than that, my current company (large) and the last company I was at (small) both offered it, the only other chick I know whos pregnant atm also has 9 months(!) paid through her company.  Why would those companies bother giving women maternity leave out of their own money when the government will just offer it anyway? Its used by companies to attract women to the workforce. If a company wants to provide an extra benefit to attract the best people to their company then let them. 

 

Theres also all the well publicised guidelines by the Australian Government that babies should be breastfed up to 12 months (WHO say 24 months) and the one to one contact during a babies development that will be lost due to mothers being forced to go back to work earlier. 

 

For the record I was against Abbotts 12 month paid scheme for being too generous (which I posted about on here), but this has just gone to the other extreme. 

Edited May 20, 2015 by hedaik

[malloy]

Biggest joke if those 3 Isis fighters are allowed back into Australia

I want them back: Bring them back and put them in some cells with some Bikie's... I a more than happy for this to occur. Keeping them over there is pretty much the same as placing them in jail here, in fact it's probably a bigger punishment to force them to live in such a shithole.

And they'll wind up dead over there anyway, the US will flatten their camp without even blinking.

The thing that annoys me is that there is always furore about criminals being released from jail early and then recommitting crime. The question is always 'why do they get let out at all?'

Yet we're now considering letting people who have actively decided that they are against the morals and culture of our society and have fought against us back into the country

Add to that the country bearing the cost of these retards having a trial and the cost to incacerate them.

Plus I wouldn't want to run the minute risk of our legal system going full retard and them only getting a slap on the wrist.

[Deviant]

Because if the government offer it, they need to subsidise it. Money doesn't grow on trees, its acquired through tax.

Tax from the pregnant lady and the company help subsidise the money she gets and is incentive to go back to work and keep paying tax.

Imagine this world without females in jobs... Sounds good in theory right? But in practicality, we'd be fucked!

[bt50]

Because if the government offer it, they need to subsidise it. Money doesn't grow on trees, its acquired through tax.

Tax from the pregnant lady and the company help subsidise the money she gets and is incentive to go back to work and keep paying tax.

Imagine this world without females in jobs... Sounds good in theory right? But in practicality, we'd be fucked!

We'd have clean houses tho 0_o

[cadete]

 

 

 

Biggest joke if those 3 Isis fighters are allowed back into Australia

I want them back: Bring them back and put them in some cells with some Bikie's... I a more than happy for this to occur. Keeping them over there is pretty much the same as placing them in jail here, in fact it's probably a bigger punishment to force them to live in such a shithole.

And they'll wind up dead over there anyway, the US will flatten their camp without even blinking.

The thing that annoys me is that there is always furore about criminals being released from jail early and then recommitting crime. The question is always 'why do they get let out at all?'

Yet we're now considering letting people who have actively decided that they are against the morals and culture of our society and have fought against us back into the country

Add to that the country bearing the cost of these retards having a trial and the cost to incacerate them.

Plus I wouldn't want to run the minute risk of our legal system going full retard and them only getting a slap on the wrist.

 

Yeah thats a worry - Should be locked away for years for committing Treason.

[Deviant]

 

Because if the government offer it, they need to subsidise it. Money doesn't grow on trees, its acquired through tax.

Tax from the pregnant lady and the company help subsidise the money she gets and is incentive to go back to work and keep paying tax.

Imagine this world without females in jobs... Sounds good in theory right? But in practicality, we'd be fucked!

We'd have clean houses tho 0_o

 

lol you could be right. 

[GreenSeater]

They should be left over there. Absolutely zero compassion for these shitcunts. If you go overseas to join an enemy of Australia you revoke your rights to Australia. Leave them over there and ISIS will sort them out themselves like they did with that 19 year old from Melbourne who they beheaded for trying to come back to Australia

[Tesla]

I think people are missing the point of bringing them back (1 less IS fighter, 1 less Australian/westerner to be used for propaganda reasons, etc.).

They'd then go to jail for a long time.

Not to mention many of those that go over there are quite young and would realise the massive mistake they've made almost immediately upon the reality of being part of IS hitting them. It's a fundamental part of our justice system that people generally get second chances, especially if they are young and haven't offended previously, and it's exactly that sort of shit that separates us from places like the Islamic State. Bring them back and let the legal system deal with them.

People become extremely irrational when anything terrorism related comes up (can't really blame them, but it's still irrational).

Edited May 20, 2015 by Tesla

[hedaik]

I think people are missing the point of bringing them back (1 less IS fighter, 1 less Australian/westerner to be used for propaganda reasons, etc.).

They'd then go to jail for a long time.

Not to mention many of those that go over there are quite young and would realise the massive mistake they've made almost immediately upon the reality of being part of IS hitting them. It's a fundamental part of our justice system that people generally get second chances, especially if they are young and haven't offended previously, and it's exactly that sort of shit that separates us from places like the Islamic State. Bring them back and let the legal system deal with them.

People become extremely irrational when anything terrorism related comes up (can't really blame them, but it's still irrational).

 

fuckin do-gooder

[Tesla]

I think people are missing the point of bringing them back (1 less IS fighter, 1 less Australian/westerner to be used for propaganda reasons, etc.).

They'd then go to jail for a long time.

Not to mention many of those that go over there are quite young and would realise the massive mistake they've made almost immediately upon the reality of being part of IS hitting them. It's a fundamental part of our justice system that people generally get second chances, especially if they are young and haven't offended previously, and it's exactly that sort of shit that separates us from places like the Islamic State. Bring them back and let the legal system deal with them.

People become extremely irrational when anything terrorism related comes up (can't really blame them, but it's still irrational).

 

fuckin do-gooder

I've been accused of many things, but never for being a "do-gooder".

Need to make some anti-welfare posts to balance it out

[bt50]

It's a fundamental part of our justice system that people generally get second chances, especially if they are young and haven't offended previously, and it's exactly that sort of shit that separates us from places like the Islamic State. Bring them back and let the legal system deal

What's the chances of these people having not offended in some way or another previously? Be definatly the minority I would think.

The other thing, does anyone think the legal system in Australia deals with anyone appropriately these days anyway?

[Braveheart]

I think people are missing the point of bringing them back (1 less IS fighter, 1 less Australian/westerner to be used for propaganda reasons, etc.).

They'd then go to jail for a long time.

Not to mention many of those that go over there are quite young and would realise the massive mistake they've made almost immediately upon the reality of being part of IS hitting them. It's a fundamental part of our justice system that people generally get second chances, especially if they are young and haven't offended previously, and it's exactly that sort of shit that separates us from places like the Islamic State. Bring them back and let the legal system deal with them.

People become extremely irrational when anything terrorism related comes up (can't really blame them, but it's still irrational).

Yep.

 

Just an aside as I've heard some fairly strong 'put em up against a wall and shoot em' shit about this of late.

 

Jurisprudence in the Australian tradition has evolved well past such base and simplistic 'solutions' to rather fucking complex problems such as these. We are better than these ISIS zealot dogs because we respect the rule of Law even when transgressors don't and thus that makes our approach consistent NOT weak and compromised like the one they purport to be bound by. Punish the fuck out of these people because their despicable actions predicated on misguided conceptions of 'duty' cannot go unchecked but if we as a civilised nation can't move past 'an eye for an eye' type approaches to justice by attempting to reform these people after they have been punished (the kids in particular who almost exclusively have never offended in any sense before) then what's the point at all? Wouldn't we rather have them become productive members of society after they have served their time? Ronald Ryan (1967) constitutes the example of the break from zero sum approaches to crime and punishment that no longer reflected the attitudes and values of Australian society and I think rightly so. Real, well adjusted Aussies don't kill people and neither does our state. Those that call themselves Aussies and who do take the lives of innocents both domestically and overseas deserve to face the full force of the law but we are better than these violent fucks thus their crimes should not be met with state administered violence nor mob justice.

[cadete]

 

I think people are missing the point of bringing them back (1 less IS fighter, 1 less Australian/westerner to be used for propaganda reasons, etc.).

They'd then go to jail for a long time.

Not to mention many of those that go over there are quite young and would realise the massive mistake they've made almost immediately upon the reality of being part of IS hitting them. It's a fundamental part of our justice system that people generally get second chances, especially if they are young and haven't offended previously, and it's exactly that sort of shit that separates us from places like the Islamic State. Bring them back and let the legal system deal with them.

People become extremely irrational when anything terrorism related comes up (can't really blame them, but it's still irrational).

Yep.

 

Just an aside as I've heard some fairly strong 'put em up against a wall and shoot em' shit about this of late.

 

Jurisprudence in the Australian tradition has evolved well past such base and simplistic 'solutions' to rather fucking complex problems such as these. We are better than these ISIS zealot dogs because we respect the rule of Law even when transgressors don't and thus that makes our approach consistent NOT weak and compromised like the one they purport to be bound by. Punish the fuck out of these people because their despicable actions predicated on misguided conceptions of 'duty' cannot go unchecked but if we as a civilised nation can't move past 'an eye for an eye' type approaches to justice by attempting to reform these people after they have been punished (the kids in particular who almost exclusively have never offended in any sense before) then what's the point at all? Wouldn't we rather have them become productive members of society after they have served their time? Ronald Ryan (1967) constitutes the example of the break from zero sum approaches to crime and punishment that no longer reflected the attitudes and values of Australian society and I think rightly so. Real, well adjusted Aussies don't kill people and neither does our state. Those that call themselves Aussies and who do take the lives of innocents both domestically and overseas deserve to face the full force of the law but we are better than these violent fucks thus their crimes should not be met with state administered violence nor mob justice.

 

Plus a few years in Barwon Prison known as "The ISIS Kid" is enough punishment to ruin a man's life for good.

[cadete]

Good to see "Gay Civil Unions" finally being treated as the Non Political Issue that it is... mind you it would be better if Shorten would allow the Government to go through the process rather than hijacking the issue for Political Points with a Private Member's Bill.

[Tesla]

Boring. Just make it legal already. Then we can waste a few years on the next obvious one, medical marijuana.

[cadete]

Boring. Just make it legal already. Then we can waste a few years on the next obvious one, medical marijuana.

Agreed.

[CALZALOL]

This is a serious question but what is the argument against same-sex marriage? Is there one?

[thisphantomfortress]

This is a serious question but what is the argument against same-sex marriage? Is there one?

Paging bt50