jw1739 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Picking up an idea of Belaguttman...and thinking about the Maycon debacle...how should a club like Heart, new on the block, and with limited resources, go about scouting visa players? Clearly by not looking at a DVD I would say...And where might we look, given that many other clubs are trawling the world looking for the same thing? What sort of criteria should we apply to potentail signings? Indeed, are they worth bothering with at all, given that there must be additional costs, such as relocation, attached to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huzie Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Melbourne is the most livable city in the world, should be getting young talented players from South American slums, getting Germano for 47k a season is insane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toogood18 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Simple and very easy. Go and look at players in developing countries, i.e. Brazil, Argentina, Africa I think can become a big breeding ground for talent (It already is). Bring players out here, better lifestyle than from where they're from, a little bit of cash, no more than about 60k, one year contracts. If anyone has any affiliation with Heart they should get in contact with Steve Panopoulos, Fred's manager, also manages Reinaldo (Ex-Roar) and a few others. Ex South Melbourne gun and let me tell you a ripper bloke, who during the Club World Cup in 2000 met a Brazilian girl and has been living there and managing and scouting for about 8 years now. He is no dill, fantastic player and really good scout, found Rafael and Fabio (Man United twins). I reckon we could end up with a half-decent player from his stable. I'd also look at players similar to Berisha, who are in the German 2nd division, who would like a better lifestyle. Visa players: Either give them a heap and they will come or hope they're from a 3rd world country and will come for very little money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I wouldn't throw out the DVDs, just wouldn't be the only info I used that's all. (We all know the problems with a DVD, shows the successes but not the stuff ups) I would have thought screening potential players by DVD followed by a trip to their home country for a closer look would have made a lot of sense. The cost of the trip would be a fraction of the cost of a poor signing, who sucks money out of the salary cap, chews up a visa spot and takes a place on your roster so you can't even sign an Aussie in their stead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranerz21 Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 DVD's do help, but just promote the better lifestyle we have here in melbourne to the ones in 3rd world countries, or with other players just go this is first division football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilsonMHFC Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I wouldn't throw out the DVDs, just wouldn't be the only info I used that's all. (We all know the problems with a DVD, shows the successes but not the stuff ups) I would have thought screening potential players by DVD followed by a trip to their home country for a closer look would have made a lot of sense. The cost of the trip would be a fraction of the cost of a poor signing, who sucks money out of the salary cap, chews up a visa spot and takes a place on your roster so you can't even sign an Aussie in their stead. Maycon in a nut shell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perthheart Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Definitely should go about getting guys from S.America. Also wonder if the club has considered signing youngsters from here. http://www.aspire.qa/. Supposedly they are recruiting talented kids from all over the 3rd world in hope of turning them into Qatari internationals in time for their hosting of the world cup. They recently beat Manchester United in the milk cup 7-0, one of the bigger international youth tournaments. Is a sad state of affairs that a country must go down this route to field a competitive team. However, if these kids have that much talent the Qatari's may be keen to get their better prospects out playing club football as they reach 20-22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranerz21 Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 south america and mexico would be the ones i would try and target, they got lots of talent in those countries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Having watched some of the ACoN, I'd be looking in Africa too, for instance all but one of the Zambian team play in Zambia. We need a reliable network of local contacts perhaps by cultivating affiliations with local clubs. This is where the club can tap into the multi-cultural Heart fan network:) I think that JvS id going to do some European scouting for us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn Asunder Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I have said it before ... we should have someone looking at Bundesliga second division and aim for a consistent player, maybe 24 - 28 who has a few German youth caps and who's career may have stagnated a little. The quality of the German league is high, the players are physically capable, and a player with the right quality has every chance of coming to the A-league and starring, and then moving into Asia for some big dollars. A player i have started watching, and who is out of contract at the end of the German season is Tobias Feisthammel from Alemannia Aachen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butty Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 This would be a very difficult and tedious task, tbh. Limited resources would make it very frustrating. I would assume most of the VISA players we go for are generally risks. One year contracts on players in develpoing countries is defo the way to go. Give them a promise of a better life whilst also plying their trade here and doing it well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 France, Germany and Scandinavia. Get scouting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butty Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Lower divisions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Lower divisions? Obviously in Germany and half of France. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALZALOL Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 We need a striker, someone who parks the bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpy Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Football Manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) Eastern Europe. Thats where you will find good players who will play for the wages on offer in the A-League. Most of them would be happy to be at a club that actually pays their wages regularly lawl, and some of them could tear this league apart in all honesty. Not only do they posses technical attributes, but its also a region where you will find players who won't have a problem with the physicality of the A-League. Just look at some of the things Modric has said about his time on loan in the Bosnian league for example. Another good location to look in Europe is Cyprus. Probably the most underrated league in Europe. Superior to the A-league in quality. EU has given them good foreigners, plus they have a lot of good non-EU foreigners. There should be some good players we can attract from there, not the top tier of players who are looking to move to big clubs in Europe, but after that there might be some interested in coming here. Africa is heavily scouted by European clubs with their colonial histories ties with countries there. South America also is already heavily scouted but there are a lot of players there, however the level of player we are trying to attract is very risky in all honesty and hasn't worked out a lot of the time. North America? Maybe some Canadians or Americans who have missed out on MLS. Or some talent from central America and Caribbean, like Victory have done with some success. I think its an interesting area to look at. Middle East we can't afford their wages. Most of Asia we can't afford their wages. Lower division Central/West Europe is a possibility as already stated. Dunno, still seems Eastern Europe is the key location. Solid scouting there already from Germany/holland/Italy and the bigger Eatern european leagues like Russia and Ukraine but there are players there we should go after. An example of the kind of CF we could sign: Can hold up the ball, good strength, lots of flick ons, and can score goals. His no superstar, but would be a very handy player in the A-League. In fact, could tear it apart. Just an example as he would command a transfer fee, but there are players out there, send a scout. I view it as the least risky option as I think the players wouldn't have trouble fitting into the A-League's style of play and they wouldn't be on massive wages. Edited March 3, 2012 by Tesla 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTP Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 get scouting in africa imo. unknown territory to the a-league. some amazing potential in ghana, ivory coast etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Also why aren't we taking players on loan from bigger foreign clubs? We don't get big transfer fees for our players anyway, so why not. Plus their club might pay some of their wage, an important factor for A-League. Plus you could structure the loan in a dodgy way to avoid salary cap. For example, parent club pays all the players wage, but A-League club pays a loan fee equivalent to their wage. Nomsaiyin? yeah, clubs probably don't want to loan their players to the other side of the world, but surely a better option than loaning them to an inferior league, and surely some young foreign player wouldn't mind coming to Australia for a year. Kind of like a working holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 get scouting in africa imo. unknown territory to the a-league. some amazing potential in ghana, ivory coast etc We asked JVS this ages ago and he said the European clubs have pretty much monopolised scouting in Africa and will sign any decent player. makes sense since a lot dont count to foreign restrictions in some European locations, so they can go to the lower leagues in France for example, the 3rd division there has heaps of African players, and we are better than the French 3rd league, so the players we would want are already being picked up in a country the players would much rather go to due to same language and cultural ties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) We asked JVS this ages ago and he said the European clubs have pretty much monopolised scouting in Africa and will sign any decent player. makes sense since a lot dont count to foreign restrictions in some European locations, so they can go to the lower leagues in France for example, the 3rd division there has heaps of African players, and we are better than the French 3rd league, so the players we would want are already being picked up in a country the players would much rather go to due to same language and cultural ties. Yes. There is no point is going where there are already scouts crawling all over the place. I think we should look in Asia, because we can offer a new lifestyle and a lot more freedoms in this country than Asian countries afford the citizens of other Asian countries. Another benefit is the huge untapped support we would get from various sectors of Melbourne's population. Not strictly visa players, but another thing we could look at is bring in a name guest player for 10 games. Edited March 3, 2012 by jw1739 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamo_Melb_Warrior Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Fantastic post. I agree with everything you say, and that guy would be immense in the A League. He knows where the goals are, very smart and skill full. Wanna job as a scout? How do we alert the club of this, if they already do not know? Contact JD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heart_fan10 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Also why aren't we taking players on loan from bigger foreign clubs? We don't get big transfer fees for our players anyway, so why not. Plus their club might pay some of their wage, an important factor for A-League. Plus you could structure the loan in a dodgy way to avoid salary cap. For example, parent club pays all the players wage, but A-League club pays a loan fee equivalent to their wage. Nomsaiyin? yeah, clubs probably don't want to loan their players to the other side of the world, but surely a better option than loaning them to an inferior league, and surely some young foreign player wouldn't mind coming to Australia for a year. Kind of like a working holiday. good point, the only problem is that WE know that the a-league is a better league then some of the crappy leagues in europe that players get loaned out to. It's been openly said by kewell, bosschaart and even magilton how they were surprised with the standard of the league, with bosschaart even saying a-league teams were better than the lower eredivisie clubs. The only problem is that the clubs in europe actually believe the standard is extremely poor and unless they come and experience it themselves, or watch a few matches, they may never think of letting players come here. no coach is perfect, but one of the disappointing things about JVS's stint here as a manager is that with all the contacts he has in europe, especially in holland and from Ajax, he couldn't find us a player like a thomas broich or a marcos flores who would have torn teams apart. Surely there was a player who isn't getting much gametime at a top team, or was looking for a club that JVS knew and was a step above the level of the a-league. Perfect example was El Hamdaoui, who was top scorer and top player in the eredivisie a couple of seasons ago and is now playing in the reserves at Ajax apparently. Even though we were apparently talking to him for a possible guest stint over december/january, i can't believe it took 2 years of JVS being at the club to finally use his connections and start targetting bigger players. Which is why if we do end up signing a coach with a reputation, that we make sure he will use whatever connections he has to target the best possible visa players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toogood18 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Yes. There is no point is going where there are already scouts crawling all over the place. I think we should look in Asia, because we can offer a new lifestyle and a lot more freedoms in this country than Asian countries afford the citizens of other Asian countries. Another benefit is the huge untapped support we would get from various sectors of Melbourne's population. Not strictly visa players, but another thing we could look at is bring in a name guest player for 10 games. Now see this happens here as well. Bloke by the name of Peter Skapetis just signed with QPR. Now we offered him, a 17 year old and NYL contract and pretty much his manager told Heart to get stuffed, so it's bloody hard to scout kids here as well. Visa players, my prerequisites would be to have seen 6+ videos on them, then if you like what you see go and watch them and then decide whether to sign them or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Fantastic post. I agree with everything you say, and that guy would be immense in the A League. He knows where the goals are, very smart and skill full. Wanna job as a scout? How do we alert the club of this, if they already do not know? Contact JD? Alert the club of what? The player I linked? Like I said he is only an example, he is under contract so would command a transfer fee, say what you will about some of these Eastern European leagues but they know the worth of their players and what kind of transfer fee they can get. We can't really afford to be paying transfer fees and it really isn't necessary, there are players of the standard we need available on frees. good point, the only problem is that WE know that the a-league is a better league then some of the crappy leagues in europe that players get loaned out to. It's been openly said by kewell, bosschaart and even magilton how they were surprised with the standard of the league, with bosschaart even saying a-league teams were better than the lower eredivisie clubs. The only problem is that the clubs in europe actually believe the standard is extremely poor and unless they come and experience it themselves, or watch a few matches, they may never think of letting players come here. This is true, so many players say they are surprised by the quality of the league. But I think the reputation of our league is growing overseas, so hopefully this problem lessens in the future no coach is perfect, but one of the disappointing things about JVS's stint here as a manager is that with all the contacts he has in europe, especially in holland and from Ajax, he couldn't find us a player like a thomas broich or a marcos flores who would have torn teams apart. Surely there was a player who isn't getting much gametime at a top team, or was looking for a club that JVS knew and was a step above the level of the a-league. Perfect example was El Hamdaoui, who was top scorer and top player in the eredivisie a couple of seasons ago and is now playing in the reserves at Ajax apparently. Even though we were apparently talking to him for a possible guest stint over december/january, i can't believe it took 2 years of JVS being at the club to finally use his connections and start targetting bigger players. Which is why if we do end up signing a coach with a reputation, that we make sure he will use whatever connections he has to target the best possible visa players. I agree, JVS was signed as a high profile coach, and probably the only players that signed because he was here are Sibon and maybe Rutger Worm (because he would have had an inflated sense of how good he actually is), and only Sibon was a good signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 no coach is perfect, but one of the disappointing things about JVS's stint here as a manager is that with all the contacts he has in europe, especially in holland and from Ajax, he couldn't find us a player like a thomas broich or a marcos flores who would have torn teams apart. Surely there was a player who isn't getting much gametime at a top team, or was looking for a club that JVS knew and was a step above the level of the a-league. Perfect example was El Hamdaoui, who was top scorer and top player in the eredivisie a couple of seasons ago and is now playing in the reserves at Ajax apparently. Even though we were apparently talking to him for a possible guest stint over december/january, i can't believe it took 2 years of JVS being at the club to finally use his connections and start targetting bigger players. Which is why if we do end up signing a coach with a reputation, that we make sure he will use whatever connections he has to target the best possible visa players. Top post and bloody good point. Looking back you would have thought that JvS could have arranged for an Ajax youth player to get some experience here playing A-League football under his watchful eye and guidance before both returned to Holland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamo_Melb_Warrior Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Was saying alert the club of the potential of those areas Tesla mate. I assume they would know, but a gentle reminder would not go astray. I know the club is very approachable and value fan input, so maybe email the Johnny D. You never know. I think something like this, getting one or two players from that region, forging relationships with some agents and clubs in that region could be a blessing. You make valuable claims and good points on why getting players from that region would be beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biancorosso7 Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 The future of scouting visa players may change if FFA is required to follow the lead of other AFC nations, being 3 + 1, with the +1 being an Asian player. I think its a huge reason behind HAL guyd being picked up in Japan and Korea etc. If you look at the current 5 visa players, no Asian representative, so makes scouting all regions an important task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR9 Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 You haven't read many of the threads on this forum, have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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