Melbourne Derby Round 1

[mattyh001]

 

 

whats all the more amusing for me is that it really gives Heart all the more incentive to start with a bang.  a big win really would do wonders in restoring confidence amongst the fans. 

Look at how useful the first round win was last year? Sure it will be nice to win this one (I'm doubtful) but really it will be the following games that mean much more. 

 

edit: it's easy for Heart to fire up for the Derbies it seems but the games we are supposed to win, not so much. 

 

 

agreed that it the games after are big games too, and wasn't meaning to imply otherwise - not sure how i was interpreted otherwise but perhaps i'm just reading too much into it myself.

 

in comparing last season, what do you think that had the bigger influence; the five straight losses at the end of the season (of which we were sitting 5th beforehand and finished 5 points out of finals), or the four from 5 game losses after the Round 2 Wellington game (the one that Heart really should have won and the fact that three of the following four losses were on the road)?  

 

TBH, Heart's end ladder position was more to do with the fact they were shite on the road.

 

in reality the fact Heart came good mid season and (except for the really poor run of form at the end) meant they were actually on track to make finals.  that in itself would point to the fact that the early games aren't be all end all.  in turn, i would come back to one of my main points from before that an early season win over the visitors is more critical given the influence it has on Heart's fans.

 

and surely having a good start to the season over the first few games must mean the first game is just as important as any game thereafter.

Edited August 20, 2013 by mattyh001

[jw1739]

Each and every game is as important as every other game in terms of points. Yes, the derbies have local significance, but they mean nothing at all in terms of Premierships, Championships and the ACL unless we treat every other game with the same passion, commitment, focus etc. etc. etc. As already pointed out, no value in beating the Visiturds one week and then facing up to Wellington 3rds with completely the wrong attitude the next.

 

The good coaches make sure that their squads are mentally prepared to the same level before every game. 

 

Our squads have been as good as the other clubs, but it's our mental attitude that has been lacking so far. We took just one point from Wellington last season, and just four from Newcastle. Says it all for me, and IMO it's the single most important issue we have to deal with in 2013-14.

[Deviant]

I also don't think that Aliosi is a shit as most of you are saying. He has definitely grown as a coach. I don't think that he would be the weakest link - he has rebuilt the team to what we know and love today.

 

Team cohesion will be our biggest problem as it was the last few years. Too many new faces, too many one year deals as well as the old ones not getting game time due to injuries. Our pre-season games have shown that we can definitely hurt teams who don't come to play - or don't have the pace and agility to match ours... 

 

But, the new signings are the one's that are shining - thus being bitter sweet. Where are our old one's? Where are the fan favourites, the one's that busted their ass every game, Kalmar, Germano, etc. Why should we rely on murdoca, ramsay, kewell and the like. This is their first year, and they're meant to be our saviors? What if they injure themselves? Carrying one team member is easy to do... carrying half the team makes it very difficult and disheartens the rest of the players.

 

I don't doubt Aloisi, i doubt the players who don't know their place in the team. I doubt the players who haven't had a proper pre-season. Who haven't played a proper game with their new team mates. I doubt the cohesion.

 

In the scope of things, (and looking at other teams such as CCM, they haven't replaced many people over the years in comparison to us),  I am tipping (and don't go quoting me to your mates) that we will make finals, finishing 5th - 6th. If we keep the team as it is next season, we will finish top 4. This is based on a balance of the quality of our players and cohesion, as we don't know what to expect from the other teams. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But what would i know lol

[Jimmy]

I liked your post after reading the first sentence deviate. I really rate JA.

[theresonlyonebzamora]

A+ post deviate.

[Deviant]

Lol it was about time i posted something that was relevant - rather than being a trolllol

[theresonlyonebzamora]

not just a pretty face eh  

[Deviant]

not just a pretty face eh

A heck of a body too lol

[Kiro Kompiro]

A+ post deviate.

 

 

C+.

 

OOH you say- Aloisi is better than we think because he has recruited Weilaart, Kewell, Murdocca and Engelaar.  OK Check.  But then you say we lack team cohesion because Germano, Kalmar haven't stepped up.

 

But isn't that at least  partially because they been given opportunities to step up?  Why hasn't Kalmar been given more time in the midfiled?  Why hasn't Germano-even at RB.   I don't rate Walker as much as some do here (In fact he is the weakest link and I expect him to have a torrid time every game as his side will be targetted).  Isn't that all Aloisi's responsibility.

 

Cohesion comes from players playing together but also having an understanding of their roles in the overall game plan that manager is implementing.  And therein lies the problem: If Aloisi has a game plan, can somebody tell me because for the life of me I haven't worked it out yet!

[theresonlyonebzamora]

 

A+ post deviate.

 

 

C+.

 

OOH you say- Aloisi is better than we think because he has recruited Weilaart, Kewell, Murdocca and Engelaar.  OK Check.  But then you say we lack team cohesion because Germano, Kalmar haven't stepped up.

 

But isn't that at least  partially because they been given opportunities to step up?  Why hasn't Kalmar been given more time in the midfiled?  Why hasn't Germano-even at RB.   I don't rate Walker as much as some do here (In fact he is the weakest link and I expect him to have a torrid time every game as his side will be targetted).  Isn't that all Aloisi's responsibility.

 

Cohesion comes from players playing together but also having an understanding of their roles in the overall game plan that manager is implementing.  And therein lies the problem: If Aloisi has a game plan, can somebody tell me because for the life of me I haven't worked it out yet!

 

 

way to miss the point, point misser.

[jw1739]

I also don't think that Aliosi is a shit as most of you are saying. He has definitely grown as a coach. I don't think that he would be the weakest link - he has rebuilt the team to what we know and love today.

 

Team cohesion will be our biggest problem as it was the last few years. Too many new faces, too many one year deals as well as the old ones not getting game time due to injuries. Our pre-season games have shown that we can definitely hurt teams who don't come to play - or don't have the pace and agility to match ours... 

 

Really? Our last five games against A-League opposition were pathetic losses. So far this pre-season we've played three public games against sub-standard opposition...how you can justify your statements is beyond me.

 

The test will come when we actually play some serious opposition.

[Kiro Kompiro]

 

 

A+ post deviate.

 

 

C+.

 

OOH you say- Aloisi is better than we think because he has recruited Weilaart, Kewell, Murdocca and Engelaar.  OK Check.  But then you say we lack team cohesion because Germano, Kalmar haven't stepped up.

 

But isn't that at least  partially because they been given opportunities to step up?  Why hasn't Kalmar been given more time in the midfiled?  Why hasn't Germano-even at RB.   I don't rate Walker as much as some do here (In fact he is the weakest link and I expect him to have a torrid time every game as his side will be targetted).  Isn't that all Aloisi's responsibility.

 

Cohesion comes from players playing together but also having an understanding of their roles in the overall game plan that manager is implementing.  And therein lies the problem: If Aloisi has a game plan, can somebody tell me because for the life of me I haven't worked it out yet!

 

 

way to miss the point, point misser.

 

 

 

Please enlighten Oh wise and wonderful master

[Kiro Kompiro]

 

I also don't think that Aliosi is a shit as most of you are saying. He has definitely grown as a coach. I don't think that he would be the weakest link - he has rebuilt the team to what we know and love today.

 

Team cohesion will be our biggest problem as it was the last few years. Too many new faces, too many one year deals as well as the old ones not getting game time due to injuries. Our pre-season games have shown that we can definitely hurt teams who don't come to play - or don't have the pace and agility to match ours... 

 

Really? Our last five games against A-League opposition were pathetic losses. So far this pre-season we've played three public games against sub-standard opposition...how you can justify your statements is beyond me.

 

The test will come when we actually play some serious opposition.

 

 

 

I agree.

 

Aloisi is the weakest link.

 

One of the fundamental and glaring problems has been the total absence of off the ball movement.  Aloisi had a whole season to identify and rectify and failed to do so.  It still seems to be an unfixed problem.

 

 Look at Edwards at Perth: two weeks and he completely re-vamped the playing style using more or less the same squad of players.

 

We are beyond the point where a one or two better players would guarantee a championship.  The coach is king, and the buck stops with him.

[theresonlyonebzamora]

 

 

 

A+ post deviate.

 

 

C+.

 

OOH you say- Aloisi is better than we think because he has recruited Weilaart, Kewell, Murdocca and Engelaar.  OK Check.  But then you say we lack team cohesion because Germano, Kalmar haven't stepped up.

 

But isn't that at least  partially because they been given opportunities to step up?  Why hasn't Kalmar been given more time in the midfiled?  Why hasn't Germano-even at RB.   I don't rate Walker as much as some do here (In fact he is the weakest link and I expect him to have a torrid time every game as his side will be targetted).  Isn't that all Aloisi's responsibility.

 

Cohesion comes from players playing together but also having an understanding of their roles in the overall game plan that manager is implementing.  And therein lies the problem: If Aloisi has a game plan, can somebody tell me because for the life of me I haven't worked it out yet!

 

 

way to miss the point, point misser.

 

 

 

Please enlighten Oh wise and wonderful master

 

 

Haha. I'm just saying that you've stated that 'you say Aloisi is better than we think cause he recruited X players' but deviate never SAID that. I don't disagree that just cause you make a few good signings you're all of a sudden a better manager, in fact the rest of deviate's post beyond the first sentence just about mirror yours.

 

IIRC in pre season so far germano is returning to fitness and kalmar is injured. I am sure we will see more of them. If you are talking about last season, then that's a whole different can of worms.

[Kiro Kompiro]

aah.  I read the 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A+ post deviate.

 

 

C+.

 

OOH you say- Aloisi is better than we think because he has recruited Weilaart, Kewell, Murdocca and Engelaar.  OK Check.  But then you say we lack team cohesion because Germano, Kalmar haven't stepped up.

 

But isn't that at least  partially because they been given opportunities to step up?  Why hasn't Kalmar been given more time in the midfiled?  Why hasn't Germano-even at RB.   I don't rate Walker as much as some do here (In fact he is the weakest link and I expect him to have a torrid time every game as his side will be targetted).  Isn't that all Aloisi's responsibility.

 

Cohesion comes from players playing together but also having an understanding of their roles in the overall game plan that manager is implementing.  And therein lies the problem: If Aloisi has a game plan, can somebody tell me because for the life of me I haven't worked it out yet!

 

 

way to miss the point, point misser.

 

 

 

Please enlighten Oh wise and wonderful master

 

 

Haha. I'm just saying that you've stated that 'you say Aloisi is better than we think cause he recruited X players' but deviate never SAID that. I don't disagree that just cause you make a few good signings you're all of a sudden a better manager, in fact the rest of deviate's post beyond the first sentence just about mirror yours.

 

IIRC in pre season so far germano is returning to fitness and kalmar is injured. I am sure we will see more of them. If you are talking about last season, then that's a whole different can of worms.

 

 

 

Ahh sorry I interpreted his statement that:

 

"he has rebuilt the team to what we know and love today" as referring to the recruiting we have done this year

 

I *hope* deviate is right about Aloisi growing as coach. I have my doubts.

 

Germano still unfit and Kalmar injured?  Didn't know that was the case.  I think they've both pulled up a stool at the last chance saloon this season.

[theresonlyonebzamora]

has the team not been rebuilt to better than it was though? has our recruiting so far this year been poor? i'm not sure if aloisi necessarily oversees ALL of that.

[Deviant]

 

Ahh sorry I interpreted his statement that:

 

"he has rebuilt the team to what we know and love today" as referring to the recruiting we have done this year

 

I *hope* deviate is right about Aloisi growing as coach. I have my doubts.

 

Germano still unfit and Kalmar injured?  Didn't know that was the case.  I think they've both pulled up a stool at the last chance saloon this season.

 

We all hope i'm right about Aloisi. lol.

 

The only difference is that i'm confident about him being our manager

Edited August 21, 2013 by Deviate

[jw1739]

JA said in a recent interview that Germano and Kalmar are both "...several weeks away." I interpreted that as meaning they are injured. Presumably training injuries, because they haven't featured in any of the public pre-season games.

 

IIRC Germano had a series of bio-mechanical tests to assess some aspect(s) or other about his musculo-skeletal situation, as did Alex Terra a couple of seasons ago.

 

With a squad limited to 23, three of those to be youth players, an A-League club can't afford these longer-term unavailability situations.

[kingofhearts]

With the squad we have now, surely we are just paying JA to be a glorified babysitter? There is enough talent as well as potential leaders on this team that even if JA coaching goes to shit this season, surely we can make finals on talent alone??

[alexandro]

With the squad we have now, surely we are just paying JA to be a glorified babysitter? There is enough talent as well as potential leaders on this team that even if JA coaching goes to shit this season, surely we can make finals on talent alone??

 

Doesn't work like that. For starters players will get injured and depending on who they are the team wont look so shit hot. Secondly you underestimate how much a role psychology and team harmony plays in the success of a team. 

[marteaux]

We need to win this game or Marteaux will be a very sad little Panda.

[Peter]

JA said in a recent interview that Germano and Kalmar are both "...several weeks away." I interpreted that as meaning they are injured. Presumably training injuries, because they haven't featured in any of the public pre-season games.

 

IIRC Germano had a series of bio-mechanical tests to assess some aspect(s) or other about his musculo-skeletal situation, as did Alex Terra a couple of seasons ago.

 

With a squad limited to 23, three of those to be youth players, an A-League club can't afford these longer-term unavailability situations.

Don't worry JW. With the new splash the cash Heart, injury replacements are only a phone call away.

[mulhollanddrive]

Need one of Germano or Kalmar able to start along side Engelaar-Murdocca, as it stands.  Allows Kewell to play as a striker.

[HeartinHobart]

Need one of Germano or Kalmar able to start along side Engelaar-Murdocca, as it stands. Allows Kewell to play as a striker.

Or maybe we just sign a decent striker.

[n i k o]

Should have one by tomorrow remember

[HeartinHobart]

Should have one by tomorrow remember

I'm calling bullshit on Inmyheart. Happy to be proven wrong

[biancorosso7]

 

A+ post deviate.

 

 

C+.

 

OOH you say- Aloisi is better than we think because he has recruited Weilaart, Kewell, Murdocca and Engelaar.  OK Check.  But then you say we lack team cohesion because Germano, Kalmar haven't stepped up.

 

But isn't that at least  partially because they been given opportunities to step up?  Why hasn't Kalmar been given more time in the midfiled?  Why hasn't Germano-even at RB.   I don't rate Walker as much as some do here (In fact he is the weakest link and I expect him to have a torrid time every game as his side will be targetted).  Isn't that all Aloisi's responsibility.

 

Cohesion comes from players playing together but also having an understanding of their roles in the overall game plan that manager is implementing.  And therein lies the problem: If Aloisi has a game plan, can somebody tell me because for the life of me I haven't worked it out yet!

 

 

Did you see Walker v Del Piero in Melbourne last season? 

 

Calling Walker the weakest link in the squad is an ignorant comment. Particularly given the fact that we have not seen the need to sign another RB this offseason.

[mus-28]

Agreed I thought Walker was impressive nearly every game he appeared in, he was rarely beaten in 1v1 situations, always offered an option on the touchline and didn't overplay when in posession. I think he'll star this season with a midfield that is able to retain the ball a lot better and defenders that don't have to continually lump it or play the ball to 50/50 contests.

[hedaik]

Walker and Garcia were our only 2 players who could hold their heads up after last season imo

[Jimmy]

Walker and Garcia were our only 2 players who could hold their heads up after last season imo

Gerhardt, Kalmar, Merbrahtu, Redmayne and Behich.

[theresonlyonebzamora]

Behich didn't play last season?

[KD.]

Yes he did

[theresonlyonebzamora]

Yes he did

Yes yes he did. Blame the alcohol

[kingofhearts]

 

Yes he did

Yes yes he did. Blame the alcohol

 

Alcohol- The solution, and cause, of all of mans problems