Domestic Politics

[Deeming]

https://www.facebook.com/heraldsun/photos/a.417370303170.194381.91269123170/10152487101593171/?type=1&theater
Herald Sun unloads on Daniel Andrews for his East West Link backflip and rightly so

[malloy]

https://www.facebook.com/heraldsun/photos/a.417370303170.194381.91269123170/10152487101593171/?type=1&theater

Herald Sun unloads on Daniel Andrews for his East West Link backflip and rightly so

Meanwhile The Age are praising it.

[HeartFc]

Last time I heard the line "better public transport" from the Labor party a little thing called myki popped up, a few years late and a few bil over... plus it's a pile of shite.

What we need is better political leaders, that includes dr nappy dacks. Bring back Jeff Kennett I say... minus the ego (not sure if thats possible). The man speaks sense and has large testicles.

First order of business, disovle 20 local councils and pump the money into sensible infrastructure like connecting suburban rail links, multi lane highways (instead of planting 6 meter wide garden beds and realizing more humans will need to use that space in 10 years)... and for god sake, fuck off those bike lanes and make cyclist wear a rego sticker so fuckers are treated like everyone else.

[hedaik]

https://www.facebook.com/heraldsun/photos/a.417370303170.194381.91269123170/10152487101593171/?type=1&theater

Herald Sun unloads on Daniel Andrews for his East West Link backflip and rightly so

Meanwhile The Age are praising it.

Was funny seeing the complete opposite front page headlines between papers when the protests for the tunnel were happening.

[malloy]

Last time I heard the line "better public transport" from the Labor party a little thing called myki popped up, a few years late and a few bil over... plus it's a pile of shite.

What we need is better political leaders, that includes dr nappy dacks. Bring back Jeff Kennett I say... minus the ego (not sure if thats possible). The man speaks sense and has large testicles.

First order of business, disovle 20 local councils and pump the money into sensible infrastructure like connecting suburban rail links, multi lane highways (instead of planting 6 meter wide garden beds and realizing more humans will need to use that space in 10 years)... and for god sake, fuck off those bike lanes and make cyclist wear a rego sticker so fuckers are treated like everyone else.

The easiest way to attempt to increase the quality of our leaders is to increase their pay, but people already complain that pollies get paid too much.

[hedaik]

 

Last time I heard the line "better public transport" from the Labor party a little thing called myki popped up, a few years late and a few bil over... plus it's a pile of shite.

What we need is better political leaders, that includes dr nappy dacks. Bring back Jeff Kennett I say... minus the ego (not sure if thats possible). The man speaks sense and has large testicles.

First order of business, disovle 20 local councils and pump the money into sensible infrastructure like connecting suburban rail links, multi lane highways (instead of planting 6 meter wide garden beds and realizing more humans will need to use that space in 10 years)... and for god sake, fuck off those bike lanes and make cyclist wear a rego sticker so fuckers are treated like everyone else.

The easiest way to attempt to increase the quality of our leaders is to increase their pay, but people already complain that pollies get paid too much.

 

 

Also extends to the public sector, Im friends with a couple of people who work for ACCC and ACMA and all their best people leave for the private sector as its much better paying and they can spill their inside secrets. 

 

But on the other hand you also want to be careful not to have people who are driven by money and are there because they want to be there. 

[HeartinHobart]

Last time I heard the line "better public transport" from the Labor party a little thing called myki popped up, a few years late and a few bil over... plus it's a pile of shite.

What we need is better political leaders, that includes dr nappy dacks. Bring back Jeff Kennett I say... minus the ego (not sure if thats possible). The man speaks sense and has large testicles.

First order of business, disovle 20 local councils and pump the money into sensible infrastructure like connecting suburban rail links, multi lane highways (instead of planting 6 meter wide garden beds and realizing more humans will need to use that space in 10 years)... and for god sake, fuck off those bike lanes and make cyclist wear a rego sticker so fuckers are treated like everyone else.

The easiest way to attempt to increase the quality of our leaders is to increase their pay, but people already complain that pollies get paid too much.

Also extends to the public sector, Im friends with a couple of people who work for ACCC and ACMA and all their best people leave for the private sector as its much better paying and they can spill their inside secrets.

But on the other hand you also want to be careful not to have people who are driven by money and are there because they want to be there.

I realise that there are some people in these positions that worth substantial sums, but the fact that many people in the public sector earn similar wages too high profile federal and state politicians, is well in my opinion farcical.

Edited September 11, 2014 by HeartinHobart

[cadete]

If the ALP does succeed in blocking the EW Link then all I can say is... 

 

Welcome to Sydney lads: Where is everything is promised by both sides of Parliament, nothing is ever done by either side of Parliament and its takes you an hour and a half to travel 20 Kilometres anywhere on a too narrow road that is always ridden with potholes (with no Bike Lane either).

 

The fact that The Age (The paper nobody reads) is actually behind this move shows how retarded the whole situation is... 

There is no way that John Brumby would have ever of flirted with the Idiotic Idealistic Far Left in such a manner - Which was probably why his Government called the Herald Sun behind closed doors: "Our Paper".

Edited September 12, 2014 by cadete

[Deeming]

 

https://www.facebook.com/heraldsun/photos/a.417370303170.194381.91269123170/10152487101593171/?type=1&theater

Herald Sun unloads on Daniel Andrews for his East West Link backflip and rightly so

Meanwhile The Age are praising it.

 

Actually even the Age was getting stuck into Dan(iel) Andrews backflip too (while trying to oppose EW a little bit too)

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial/ripping-up-contracts-and-stalling-on-roads-20140911-3feid.html

 

Ripping up contracts and stalling on roads

Date September 12, 2014

 

Labor leader Daniel Andrews is playing politics over the East West Link instead of developing sound policy and a genuine solution to Melbourne's worsening traffic congestion. He wants to make the November 29 state election a quasi-referendum on the East West Link, saying that if Labor wins then it will not stand in the shoes of the government to defend a Supreme Court case brought by two inner-city councils that oppose the road tunnel. In other words, if Labor wins the election, the case ends, and in all likelihood the road project would not proceed - or at least not in its current form.

Mr Andrews is waving around legal advice, which contends that if the Supreme Court finds the Napthine government's process for approving the East West project was flawed, then the contracts underpinning the deal would be deemed invalid. The advice in itself is not surprising. What is surprising is Labor's decision to pitch everything it has behind that advice. In doing so, it is sliding away from its earlier commitment to honour contracts signed by the Napthine government prior to the election.

Labor treasury spokesman Tim Pallas said this in April: ''The view we subscribe to is that it's a well-accepted practice that future governments accept and honour contracts signed by a previous government.'' With East West Link, Labor is relying on a technical knockout - the validity or otherwise of the ministerial approvals process - rather than arguing the merits of the project. 

Planning Minister Matthew Guy has previously admitted he approved the project without relying on a business case. Indeed, he said it was ''not necessary'' for him to do so, and it was ''axiomatic that, in the context of the approval decision, the project will deliver a range of economic benefits''. That circular argument is patently insufficient, in our view. Every major project in this state should be assessed by careful consideration of the potential economic, social and environmental benefits and detriments.

The Australian Industry Group alluded to the dubious approvals process yesterday, saying while the threat to the East West contracts was concerning, it was important to have ''processes through which clear and transparent evaluation of prospective infrastructure projects are assessed''. AiG says proper approvals processes ''would substantially reduce the risks that subsequent governments could renege on infrastructure contracts''.

The Age deplores the Napthine government's obfuscation and secrecy on the East West Link. But abandoning the project, as Labor intimates it will do, is not a remedy for anything. The $6-8 billion road is undoubtedly expensive and controversial, but it would release some of the pressure on Melbourne's road network.

We have consistently said that any proper resolution of Melbourne's commuter congestion requires a multi-pronged approach: it requires new roads and commensurate investment in new public transport, especially the Metro rail project, to which both Labor and the Coalition are committed (although the Coalition proposes what in our view is an inferior route). If Labor cruels the East West road, there is nothing in reserve and Melbourne's woes will continue.

By indulging in this kind of political manoeuvring, Mr Andrews risks Labor being depicted as mercurial and capricious, and that puts the business community on edge, jeopardises credit ratings and serves to dissuade new investment. It is not the mark of a responsible leader. When he was installed as Opposition Leader, Mr Andrews blamed Labor's loss in 2010 on the Brumby government's failure to meet the demands of a rapidly growing state. He needs to be very careful not to take the first fateful steps down that same path.

[cadete]

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/heraldsun/photos/a.417370303170.194381.91269123170/10152487101593171/?type=1&theater

Herald Sun unloads on Daniel Andrews for his East West Link backflip and rightly so

Meanwhile The Age are praising it.

 

Actually even the Age was getting stuck into Dan(iel) Andrews backflip too (while trying to oppose EW a little bit too)

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial/ripping-up-contracts-and-stalling-on-roads-20140911-3feid.html

 

Ripping up contracts and stalling on roads

Date September 12, 2014

 

Labor leader Daniel Andrews is playing politics over the East West Link instead of developing sound policy and a genuine solution to Melbourne's worsening traffic congestion. He wants to make the November 29 state election a quasi-referendum on the East West Link, saying that if Labor wins then it will not stand in the shoes of the government to defend a Supreme Court case brought by two inner-city councils that oppose the road tunnel. In other words, if Labor wins the election, the case ends, and in all likelihood the road project would not proceed - or at least not in its current form.

Mr Andrews is waving around legal advice, which contends that if the Supreme Court finds the Napthine government's process for approving the East West project was flawed, then the contracts underpinning the deal would be deemed invalid. The advice in itself is not surprising. What is surprising is Labor's decision to pitch everything it has behind that advice. In doing so, it is sliding away from its earlier commitment to honour contracts signed by the Napthine government prior to the election.

Labor treasury spokesman Tim Pallas said this in April: ''The view we subscribe to is that it's a well-accepted practice that future governments accept and honour contracts signed by a previous government.'' With East West Link, Labor is relying on a technical knockout - the validity or otherwise of the ministerial approvals process - rather than arguing the merits of the project. 

Planning Minister Matthew Guy has previously admitted he approved the project without relying on a business case. Indeed, he said it was ''not necessary'' for him to do so, and it was ''axiomatic that, in the context of the approval decision, the project will deliver a range of economic benefits''. That circular argument is patently insufficient, in our view. Every major project in this state should be assessed by careful consideration of the potential economic, social and environmental benefits and detriments.

The Australian Industry Group alluded to the dubious approvals process yesterday, saying while the threat to the East West contracts was concerning, it was important to have ''processes through which clear and transparent evaluation of prospective infrastructure projects are assessed''. AiG says proper approvals processes ''would substantially reduce the risks that subsequent governments could renege on infrastructure contracts''.

The Age deplores the Napthine government's obfuscation and secrecy on the East West Link. But abandoning the project, as Labor intimates it will do, is not a remedy for anything. The $6-8 billion road is undoubtedly expensive and controversial, but it would release some of the pressure on Melbourne's road network.

We have consistently said that any proper resolution of Melbourne's commuter congestion requires a multi-pronged approach: it requires new roads and commensurate investment in new public transport, especially the Metro rail project, to which both Labor and the Coalition are committed (although the Coalition proposes what in our view is an inferior route). If Labor cruels the East West road, there is nothing in reserve and Melbourne's woes will continue.

By indulging in this kind of political manoeuvring, Mr Andrews risks Labor being depicted as mercurial and capricious, and that puts the business community on edge, jeopardises credit ratings and serves to dissuade new investment. It is not the mark of a responsible leader. When he was installed as Opposition Leader, Mr Andrews blamed Labor's loss in 2010 on the Brumby government's failure to meet the demands of a rapidly growing state. He needs to be very careful not to take the first fateful steps down that same path.

 

Its like Andrews is playing a game of Backyard Soccer against his kid brother and so he decided that he would let his brother score an easy goal.

 

Except its not Backyard Soccer - Its an Election and the EW Link is a Road that as this City desperately needs...

[Tesla]

It's not about the EW Link now. It's about the government's reputation. Once you start ripping up contracts signed by the former government, or worse effectively having them deemed null and void, the state is fucked. We can now add on a 'risk premium' to the already inflated construction costs in this country (thanks unions and Labor), and nothing will ever be built.

[cadete]

The way I see it Andrews behaviour if he goes through with this is simply "Un Victorian" and "Not Melbourne Like" and it will be a return to the crap that this State saw in its darkest days under the guidance of the extremely poor Cain and Kirner governments.

Edited September 12, 2014 by cadete

[hedaik]

This thread needs a resident conspiracy theorist to talk about the raising of the terror level

[Deviant]

lol i'm amazed every-time some mentions the 'illuminati' or the 'free masons', etc. 

[Tesla]

This thread needs a resident conspiracy theorist to talk about the raising of the terror level

If you want to talk conspiracies, I've always found it funny that probably the greatest conspiracy is the term 'conspiracy theory' itself, because basically society has been indoctrinated to automatically associate the term with some sort of crazy deluded idea initiated by some kunt living in their mum's basement, and therefore dismiss it.

Pretty brilliant if you think about it

[hedaik]

 

This thread needs a resident conspiracy theorist to talk about the raising of the terror level

If you want to talk conspiracies, I've always found it funny that probably the greatest conspiracy is the term 'conspiracy theory' itself, because basically society has been indoctrinated to automatically associate the term with some sort of crazy deluded idea initiated by some kunt living in their mum's basement, and therefore dismiss it.

Pretty brilliant if you think about it

 

 

All I think of is some 22 year old factory worker who listens to Immortal Technique and smokes billy bongs all day. 

[Tesla]

Never minded a bit of technique, even though I obviously don't agree with a lot of his politics.

Is he even still alive, talk about losing relevance, I guess when all the lefties discovered social media, where they can add their own $0.02 and not just listen to someone else, they stopped listening to his music

Edited September 12, 2014 by Tesla

[cadete]

 

 

This thread needs a resident conspiracy theorist to talk about the raising of the terror level

If you want to talk conspiracies, I've always found it funny that probably the greatest conspiracy is the term 'conspiracy theory' itself, because basically society has been indoctrinated to automatically associate the term with some sort of crazy deluded idea initiated by some kunt living in their mum's basement, and therefore dismiss it.

Pretty brilliant if you think about it

 

 

All I think of is some 22 year old factory worker who listens to Immortal Technique and smokes billy bongs all day. 

 

Brilliant. :clap:

 

FWIW Strider has come up with some good conspiracy shit from time to time in here... but the Mongs in general do Conspiracy Theories a lot better than us.

[KSK_47]

Never minded a bit of technique, even though I obviously don't agree with a lot of his politics.Is he even still alive, talk about losing relevance, I guess when all the lefties discovered social media, where they can add their own $0.02 and not just listen to someone else, they stopped listening to his music

Speaking of conspiracy theories, the amount of things you blame on lefties is akin to reds under the bed. Lol

[HeartFc]

This thread needs a resident conspiracy theorist to talk about the raising of the terror level

Terror threat level raised, makes people.scared. Scared. Elephants are scared of mice. Mice. Mice rhymes with dice. Dice. Dice are used in monopoly. Monopoly. Monopoly is game about property. Property. Chinese buyers buying up our property. Chinese. Chinese like noodles. Noodles. Noddles are curly. Curly. Pigs tails are curly. Pigs are ham. Muslims don't eat ham. Muslims. Muslims like bombing shit.

Muslims are terrorists... CONFIRMED.

[Pete Heartspur]

 

This thread needs a resident conspiracy theorist to talk about the raising of the terror level

Terror threat level raised, makes people.scared. Scared. Elephants are scared of mice. Mice. Mice rhymes with dice. Dice. Dice are used in monopoly. Monopoly. Monopoly is game about property. Property. Chinese buyers buying up our property. Chinese. Chinese like noodles. Noodles. Noddles are curly. Curly. Pigs tails are curly. Pigs are ham. Muslims don't eat ham. Muslims. Muslims like bombing shit.

Muslims are terrorists... CONFIRMED.

 

Muslims have beards. Hipsters have beards.

 

Hipsters = TERRORISTS!

[Deeming]

Hipsters are a threat to society and our way of life

[Dylan]

 

 

This thread needs a resident conspiracy theorist to talk about the raising of the terror level

Terror threat level raised, makes people.scared. Scared. Elephants are scared of mice. Mice. Mice rhymes with dice. Dice. Dice are used in monopoly. Monopoly. Monopoly is game about property. Property. Chinese buyers buying up our property. Chinese. Chinese like noodles. Noodles. Noddles are curly. Curly. Pigs tails are curly. Pigs are ham. Muslims don't eat ham. Muslims. Muslims like bombing shit.

Muslims are terrorists... CONFIRMED.

 

Muslims have beards. Hipsters have beards.

 

Hipsters = TERRORISTS!

 

 

[jw1739]

I just wonder why we need to have so much media commentary about what "Alert" level we're on, where we're deploying extra police, that there will be increased security at sporting events, railway stations and bus stops and all that sort of thing.

 

I don't have a problem with the security services doing what they're paid to do - if they assess that there's an "Islamist threat" then perhaps there is - but do we need to go on about it so much?

[hedaik]

I just wonder why we need to have so much media commentary about what "Alert" level we're on, where we're deploying extra police, that there will be increased security at sporting events, railway stations and bus stops and all that sort of thing.

 

I don't have a problem with the security services doing what they're paid to do - if they assess that there's an "Islamist threat" then perhaps there is - but do we need to go on about it so much?

 

A big part of it is sending a message to any potential terrorists that "we're onto you". I'm sure the upcoming grand finals and Melbourne Cup were a major factor with the decision. 

[KSK_47]

I'm sure the upcoming grand finals and Melbourne Cup were a major factor with the decision. 

 

 

I am sure it had more to do with gaining poularity

[Tesla]

10/10 timing with the government's new 'anti-terror laws'

[hedaik]

 

I'm sure the upcoming grand finals and Melbourne Cup were a major factor with the decision. 

 

 

I am sure it had more to do with gaining poularity

 

 

I tend to think it was the other way around, the situation with ISIS was known for a while and they've used that as vehicle to bring in new laws. 

 

I don't think something like the threat level which has pretty far reaching consequences (my company now has to beef up security in my workplace and all our zone sub stations) are purely used as a political tool. Fuck around with it too much and it loses its intention and status in stopping any future threats. Unlike the previous wars, most people seem to be in favour of us being involved in any action against IS, so I don't think you can accuse the Government of using it to scare people into a war. Especially as most of the commentary is the reason that the level is being raised is due to our actions. 

 

We'll never know if there is any real threat or what the Government knows, but I just figure on shit like this you're safer just to ride with it and trust they know more than us. 

Edited September 13, 2014 by hedaik

[KSK_47]

I am not saying there is no threat at all but it is certainly being milked for all the PR points they can get from it.

[jw1739]

I just think that there's a real risk that we have a "boy who cried wolf" situation.

 

My views on religious extremism, if that's what it is, are politically incorrect and so cannot be expressed here, but I'm afraid I think that we are simply trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted.

[AyeCee]

I am not saying there is no threat at all but it is certainly being milked for all the PR points they can get from it.

Gotta remember it was raised by ASIO, not the federal government.

ASIO obviously remain regardless of election results, and it's unfair to say that Abbott is responsible for a decision that they make.

That being said, I couldn't tell you how much influence the current government has on it's decisions, I'd hope (and assume) very little.

[KSK_47]

I am not saying there is no threat at all but it is certainly being milked for all the PR points they can get from it.

Gotta remember it was raised by ASIO, not the federal government.

ASIO obviously remain regardless of election results, and it's unfair to say that Abbott is responsible for a decision that they make.

That being said, I couldn't tell you how much influence the current government has on it's decisions, I'd hope (and assume) very little. I wasn't talking about the fact it was raised. JW asked why the need to bang on about it so much. It's a perfect PR opportunity

It's not a dig at liberal. Any Govt in power uses crisis like these to boost their popularity

Edited September 13, 2014 by KSK_47

[AyeCee]

Sorry, was going off how I interpreted this comment.

I'm sure the upcoming grand finals and Melbourne Cup were a major factor with the decision.

I am sure it had more to do with gaining poularity

[Deeming]

I think they need to say it because if anything does happen and nothing was said then the public would be (rightly) up in arms asking 'why didn't you tell us?'

Also having people on alert means the public is taking greater notice of suspicious looking things/people.

[KSK_47]

Sorry, was going off how I interpreted this comment.

I'm sure the upcoming grand finals and Melbourne Cup were a major factor with the decision.

I am sure it had more to do with gaining poularity

Well actually it sort of was. It was more a dig at politicians in general.

[Tesla]

Unlike the previous wars, most people seem to be in favour of us being involved in any action against IS, so I don't think you can accuse the Government of using it to scare people into a war.

The scaring has been done well before this, that's why it is popular.

Not that I disagree with the action being taken by against IS, especially when there is a risk of a genocide occurring if they aren't halted.

But since 2001, terrorism has been well and truly been milked by Western governments for their own benefit.

FWIW, if there is a terrorist attack in Australia, it's because we have played a part in these wars. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have, I'm just saying it's a consequence of it and if people do support these wars they need to realise that its part of the cost of the wars. So really the benefits (improving our allince with the US, theoretically stopping the spread and power of terrorism/terrorists, protecting ethnic groups that are at risk, etc.) should be outweighing this risk of a terrorist attack in Australia.

I think what we're doing is right, especially this time around. But I also think a terrorist attack in Australia is more a matter of when than if. Though it will more than likely be in Sydney than in Melbourne.

[KSK_47]

Speaking of wars and the Abbot Govt (who are obsessed with the economy) is there any truth in the saying "war is good for the economy"? I am no historian or economics major, so I may be wrong, but the only case I can think of where someone has financially benefited from war is the USA in WW1 and 2. But was more to do with them avoiding the war really, so I cant see how war (especially modern war) would help the economy.

[Tesla]

Speaking of wars and the Abbot Govt (who are obsessed with the economy) is there any truth in the saying "war is good for the economy"? I am no historian or economics major, so I may be wrong, but the only case I can think of where someone has financially benefited from war is the USA in WW1 and 2. But was more to do with them avoiding the war really, so I cant see how war (especially modern war) would help the economy.

I've always thought this is a stupid statement. Unless I'm missing something, the only reason it's 'good for the economy' is because it results in an increase in government spending which then stimulates demand and can have a positive short term effect on the economy. However, any other increase in government spending will do the exact same thing. The other thing is, it's only really beneficial in times when the economy is slow, that's when boosting demand will be beneficial in the short term, if the economy is already going well then all it will really do is start to create inflation.

Economic growth in the long term is achieved through an increase of supply, so stimulating demand isn't going to do much for the long term (though, that's not to say the short term isn't important and that there aren't benefits to improving the short term economic climate by stimulating demand, short term can still equate to many years and a shit economy means people don't have jobs, don't progress their career, don't save up money and invest, so a shit short term economic situation can really affect the lives of a whole generation, for example my generation in the current economic climate). In the very long term, economic growth is only achieved through technological advancements.

So really, if the government were to invest in infrastructure, instead of spending it on a war, you are both improving the short term situation and the long term situation (infrastructure = supply). Or if they were to spend it on research, then they are affecting the short term and the very long term (research = possible technological advancements).

Also, if we're talking specifically about Australia, since we import a lot of our military equipment, it isn't really that good. I guess if you're the USA, and other countries are now buying more of your military products, than there is a better argument there that it is good for the economy.

[KSK_47]

Yeah. That's pretty much what I was thinking. Apart from giving a few people a more secure job and creating a bit more growth in what I imagine is a pretty specialist industry (that is as you say if you even manufacturer in your country which most countries dont) I don't see how it helps. And even if it did then why specifically war? Why not just stimulate some other more beneficial industries?

[KSK_47]

According to a Google search (I try not to take too much notice of things I read online unless from reputable sites) it is a myth.