MHFC vs WSW @ Parramatta Staduim on Sat 7/12/13 @ 5:30pm

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

I'm saying Hazard is and mikel isn't. Just like Harry K is and Murdocca isn't.

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

Since round 1 we have missed our creative attacking midfield player in HarryK. If Murdoca is so creative why hasn't he filled in at least once behind the striker...? Because his not creative!

[AlexDaGroza]

I'm saying Hazard is and mikel isn't. Just like Harry K is and Murdocca isn't.

But of the Migs and Murdocca, Mass is cleary is able to "create" many more chances....Resulting in him being "creative" you cant just write a player off and say they arent creative. Mikel can be a very creative at times as well. 

 

Since round 1 we have missed our creative attacking midfield player in HarryK. If Murdoca is so creative why hasn't he filled in at least once behind the striker...? Because his not creative!

So much lol.

 

Firstly Murdocca isnt a number 10. He is used to a holding Midfielder role. Which does not mean he has no creativity. Just means thats his role. FFS you can have a creative Centreback. Your position on the field doesnt dictate how creative you are as a player.

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

Buddy! I'm not saying because his a DM his not a creative player!!!! His not a creative player, because he just isn't! If he was a creative player he could play behind the strikers!!! Kagawa is a creative player! Yes!?? That's why at Utd he can play central Mid, left Wing!! And fkn behind the striker!!!! Are you guys taking the piss now or what?

[AlexDaGroza]

Buddy! I'm not saying because his a DM his not a creative player!!!! His not a creative player, because he just isn't! If he was a creative player he could play behind the strikers!!! Kagawa is a creative player! Yes!?? That's why at Utd he can play central Mid, left Wing!! And fkn behind the striker!!!! Are you guys taking the piss now or what?

Your taking the piss. Do you watch our games? Kagawa is an attacking player.....not a holding Midfielder. Murdocca CREATES chances for us. More so then alot of the team....if thats not CREATIVE then i dunno what is. Im not saying he is the most creative player on our team. Im saying that for you to say he is not creative at all is just naive and illogical.

[KD.]

Buddy! I'm not saying because his a DM his not a creative player!!!! His not a creative player, because he just isn't! If he was a creative player he could play behind the strikers!!! Kagawa is a creative player! Yes!?? That's why at Utd he can play central Mid, left Wing!! And fkn behind the striker!!!! Are you guys taking the piss now or what?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc_LIR5ExIU

[belaguttman]

Leigh Broxham is capable of playing a passing possession based game, as he is doing at this minute. Does that make him creative? Comn guys you for real?

The decent forward runs that other players make give even a plonker like Broxham creative passing options. Sometimes he even passes forwards these days! How can a player make an effective contribution to the team by being creative in isolation to other players?

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

Omg! Please stop talking! Surely someone's reading this and plays the game? Ok listen! Micheal Carrack is Manutd's best passer of the ball ATM and is also a DF who creates 60% of utd's chances... BUT IS NOT A CREATIVE PLAYER!! Any player can create a chance! It doesn't make the a creative individual!!

David Silva

Aguero

Navas

RVP

Oscar

Harvard

Suarez

These are all creative players!!!!

Carrack

Eassien

Cleverly

Felaini

Mikel

Milner

These are all players who create chances yes( but are not CREATIVE players)

FFS guys wtf don't you understand. Just tell me you've never played the game, and ill understand!

[KD.]

your stupidity should be enough to get you banned.

[AlexDaGroza]

Omg! Please stop talking! Surely someone's reading this and plays the game? Ok listen! Micheal Carrack is Manutd's best passer of the ball ATM and is also a DF who creates 60% of utd's chances... BUT IS NOT A CREATIVE PLAYER!! Any player can create a chance! It doesn't make the a creative individual!!

David Silva

Aguero

Navas

RVP

Oscar

Harvard

Suarez

These are all creative players!!!!

Carrack

Eassien

Cleverly

Felaini

Mikel

Milner

These are all players who create chances yes( but are not CREATIVE players)

FFS guys wtf don't you understand. Just tell me you've never played the game, and ill understand!

Who is harvard? is he at all related to Eassien?

[belaguttman]

Omg! Please stop talking! Surely someone's reading this and plays the game? Ok listen! Micheal Carrack is Manutd's best passer of the ball ATM and is also a DF who creates 60% of utd's chances... BUT IS NOT A CREATIVE PLAYER!! Any player can create a chance! It doesn't make the a creative individual!!

David Silva

Aguero

Navas

RVP

Oscar

Harvard

Suarez

These are all creative players!!!!

Carrack

Eassien

Cleverly

Felaini

Mikel

Milner

These are all players who create chances yes( but are not CREATIVE players)

FFS guys wtf don't you understand. Just tell me you've never played the game, and ill understand!

From the look of the players in your list we aren't talking about the same thing then

[AlexDaGroza]

 

Omg! Please stop talking! Surely someone's reading this and plays the game? Ok listen! Micheal Carrack is Manutd's best passer of the ball ATM and is also a DF who creates 60% of utd's chances... BUT IS NOT A CREATIVE PLAYER!! Any player can create a chance! It doesn't make the a creative individual!!

David Silva

Aguero

Navas

RVP

Oscar

Harvard

Suarez

These are all creative players!!!!

Carrack

Eassien

Cleverly

Felaini

Mikel

Milner

These are all players who create chances yes( but are not CREATIVE players)

FFS guys wtf don't you understand. Just tell me you've never played the game, and ill understand!

Who is harvard? is he at all related to Eassien?

 

And yeahhh i play. Been playing since i was a junior. To say that Fellaini is not a creative player? last season he was probably Everton most creative player behing leighton Baines who is a left back.....and to say carrick is not as well? well i dont even know where to begin. Im not saying these guys are super creative...i am saying they have creativity.

[KD.]

Omg! Please stop talking! Surely someone's reading this and plays the game? Ok listen! Micheal Carrack is Manutd's best passer of the ball ATM and is also a DF who creates 60% of utd's chances... BUT IS NOT A CREATIVE PLAYER!! Any player can create a chance! It doesn't make the a creative individual!!

David Silva

Aguero

Navas

RVP

Oscar

Harvard

Suarez

These are all creative players!!!!

Carrack

Eassien

Cleverly

Felaini

Mikel

Milner

These are all players who create chances yes( but are not CREATIVE players)

FFS guys wtf don't you understand. Just tell me you've never played the game, and ill understand!

[n i k o]

I can see where both sides of the arguement are at, but I'm with MLB on this one. If we look at what I think defines a creative midfielder, I dare say murdocca doesn't tick many of the boxes. A creative mid is somebody who your team generally look to pass to when on the attack, they 'dictate the tempo of the game and basically control the flow of the game.' Somebody who provides a lot of assists and can pretty much create chances from nothing. As much as murdocca might be able to provide a some of our assists for our forwards he doesn't have those other attributes. He doesn't dictate tempo of play like a kewell, definitely doesn't control the flow of the game and doesn't really have that ability to create chances out of nothing. So in saying that he isn't a creative mid to its truest definition. Doesn't mean he can't create chances, every player can create chances. He lacks those other attributes that fall under the definition of a true creative mid.

Edited December 9, 2013 by n i k o

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

7.30pm Friday night AAMI park, ill be there to watch some creative football. Tune in and you'll learn something.

[KD.]

7.30pm Friday night AAMI park, ill be there to watch some creative football. Tune in and you'll learn something.

ok.

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

Tactical Analysis: Do Michael Carrick and Marouane Fellaini complement each other in midfield?

From a more attacking point of view Fellaini hasn’t been that productive so far, having failed to create a chance in his two league outings and creating just the one chance versus Bayer in the Champions League tie. In this regard Fellaini is an odd choice as the more progressive player of the two as he is not that creative. Last season the majority of chances he created for team-mates at Everton were from knock-downs and flick-ons, rather than incisive passes.

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

Alex! You want me to find some more articles??

[AlexDaGroza]

Alex! You want me to find some more articles??

Yes plz

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

And FFS Niko now you come? Lol I was waiting 2 hours for your comment! Thank you, someone that understands.

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

A lack of creativity

The major issue with regards to this pairing is the obvious lack of mobility and creativity. Against Manchester City this was devastatingly exposed. Yaya Toure and Fernandinho are two incredibly mobile and energetic midfielders, who are both powerful on and off the ball. Carrick and Fellaini played as a two man midfield pairing, with the club lined up in a 4-4-2. The result was that they were left overwhelmed by the movement of City’s midfield, particularly when Samir Nasri tucked in from the left.

Nasri another creative player! You want more??

[AlexDaGroza]

I can see where both sides of the arguement are at, but I'm with MLB on this one. If we look at what I think defines a creative midfielder, I dare say murdocca doesn't tick many of the boxes. A creative mid is somebody who your team generally look to pass to when on the attack, they 'dictate the tempo of the game and basically control the flow of the game.' Somebody who provides a lot of assists and can pretty much create chances from nothing. As much as murdocca might be able to provide a some of our assists for our forwards he doesn't have those other attributes. He doesn't dictate tempo of play like a kewell, definitely doesn't control the flow of the game and doesn't really have that ability to create chances out of nothing. So in saying that he isn't a creative mid to its truest definition. Doesn't mean he can't create chances, every player can create chances. He lacks those other attributes that fall under the definition of a true creative mid.

Agreed. But a player cant be written off as having no creativity at all. He has been creating and offering alot more up front then Mate, Mebrahtu, and Migs.At the end of the day Murdocca is a holding Midfielder not a number 10. But that alone does not mean he is a player with no creativity

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

Conclusion

Fellaini might emerge as a good player for United. The Belgian is versatile, strong and good in the air, whilst his passing is improving. That being said in a two man midfield pivot he simply doesn’t suit Carrick that well. Neither player is quick enough to compliment each other effectively, whilst Fellaini is arguably not creative enough to dictate the tempo or provide cutting edge from deep (which might be why the club chased Cesc Fabregas). Moyes might have to consider a three man midfield in the bigger games and against sides who play mobile players in these areas, or risk being over-run in this area.

Look Alex this is the last one I finding, read what Niko said because you've missed the point. We aren't saying Murdocca can't creat chances, we are saying he isn't creative!!!

[AlexDaGroza]

A lack of creativity

The major issue with regards to this pairing is the obvious lack of mobility and creativity. Against Manchester City this was devastatingly exposed. Yaya Toure and Fernandinho are two incredibly mobile and energetic midfielders, who are both powerful on and off the ball. Carrick and Fellaini played as a two man midfield pairing, with the club lined up in a 4-4-2. The result was that they were left overwhelmed by the movement of City’s midfield, particularly when Samir Nasri tucked in from the left.

Nasri another creative player! You want more??

Dont see how this is relevant

[AlexDaGroza]

Conclusion

Fellaini might emerge as a good player for United. The Belgian is versatile, strong and good in the air, whilst his passing is improving. That being said in a two man midfield pivot he simply doesn’t suit Carrick that well. Neither player is quick enough to compliment each other effectively, whilst Fellaini is arguably not creative enough to dictate the tempo or provide cutting edge from deep (which might be why the club chased Cesc Fabregas). Moyes might have to consider a three man midfield in the bigger games and against sides who play mobile players in these areas, or risk being over-run in this area.

Look Alex this is the last one I finding, read what Niko said because you've missed the point. We aren't saying Murdocca can't creat chances, we are saying he isn't creative!!!

You keep saying he has no creativity at all. And that is what is irking me.

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

Exactly what's been happening to Hearts midfield being over run! Because we don't have the Del Piero, Ono, fit Harry K (creative player) to run and hold a midfield!

[n i k o]

I can see where both sides of the arguement are at, but I'm with MLB on this one. If we look at what I think defines a creative midfielder, I dare say murdocca doesn't tick many of the boxes. A creative mid is somebody who your team generally look to pass to when on the attack, they 'dictate the tempo of the game and basically control the flow of the game.' Somebody who provides a lot of assists and can pretty much create chances from nothing. As much as murdocca might be able to provide a some of our assists for our forwards he doesn't have those other attributes. He doesn't dictate tempo of play like a kewell, definitely doesn't control the flow of the game and doesn't really have that ability to create chances out of nothing. So in saying that he isn't a creative mid to its truest definition. Doesn't mean he can't create chances, every player can create chances. He lacks those other attributes that fall under the definition of a true creative mid.

Agreed. But a player cant be written off as having no creativity at all. He has been creating and offering alot more up front then Mate, Mebrahtu, and Migs.At the end of the day Murdocca is a holding Midfielder not a number 10. But that alone does not mean he is a player with no creativity

As I said "doesn't mean he can't create chances." I never said he has no creativity. But the debate is whether he is a 'creative mid?' Definitely not in its truest sense. Alright here's a question for you, you saw the massive impact kewell had when he came on during the game on Sunday yeah?? Why is it that kewell had such a big impact that murdocca could never have and hasn't had all season??

Just wanna point out this is not about bagging murdocca, he is a great player with the attributes he has, this is about him not being a creative mid.

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

No I'm not and I'm honestly not trying to have a crack at you either. I just want you to understand that being a player that creates chances and being a classy creative player are two totally different things that's all bud.

[n i k o]

Exactly what's been happening to Hearts midfield being over run! Because we don't have the Del Piero, Ono, fit Harry K (creative player) to run and hold a midfield!

Of course he has some creativity, so saying he doesn't is a bit silly I think. The argument is nearly every player has some level of creativity no matter how little, it doesn't make them creative mids.

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

Yes exactly I'm not bagging him either, I think his energy in our midfield is next to nothing!

[belaguttman]

I can see where both sides of the arguement are at, but I'm with MLB on this one. If we look at what I think defines a creative midfielder, I dare say murdocca doesn't tick many of the boxes. A creative mid is somebody who your team generally look to pass to when on the attack, they 'dictate the tempo of the game and basically control the flow of the game.' Somebody who provides a lot of assists and can pretty much create chances from nothing. As much as murdocca might be able to provide a some of our assists for our forwards he doesn't have those other attributes. He doesn't dictate tempo of play like a kewell, definitely doesn't control the flow of the game and doesn't really have that ability to create chances out of nothing. So in saying that he isn't a creative mid to its truest definition. Doesn't mean he can't create chances, every player can create chances. He lacks those other attributes that fall under the definition of a true creative mid.

Murdocca is a creative link player, he doesn't impose himself on a game and dictate the flow of the game but he creatively links defence through midfield with the forward line with short angled passes or longer penetrating passes. In order to do that effectively though he needs to receive the ball in a good position and have a player making a run into a good position to pass the ball to. Of course neither of those things happen in Aloisi's Heart and that's why he's less effective. 

Edited December 9, 2013 by belaguttman

[AlexDaGroza]

....i dont even

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

Demon_Heart why would you want me banned..? Who would you be having 4 hour debates with to make your day go faster? Anyway I'm off, thanks for this morning debate! Have a good1

[n i k o]

I can see where both sides of the arguement are at, but I'm with MLB on this one. If we look at what I think defines a creative midfielder, I dare say murdocca doesn't tick many of the boxes. A creative mid is somebody who your team generally look to pass to when on the attack, they 'dictate the tempo of the game and basically control the flow of the game.' Somebody who provides a lot of assists and can pretty much create chances from nothing. As much as murdocca might be able to provide a some of our assists for our forwards he doesn't have those other attributes. He doesn't dictate tempo of play like a kewell, definitely doesn't control the flow of the game and doesn't really have that ability to create chances out of nothing. So in saying that he isn't a creative mid to its truest definition. Doesn't mean he can't create chances, every player can create chances. He lacks those other attributes that fall under the definition of a true creative mid.

Murdocca is a creative link player, he doesn't impose himself on a game and dictate the flow of the game but he creatively links defence through midfield with the forward line with short angled passes or longer penetrating passes. In order to do that effectively though he needs to receive the ball in a good position and have a player making a run into a good position to pass the ball to. Of course neither of those things happen in Aloisi's Heart and that's why he's less effective.

Yes that true, I understand and agree with that to an extent. Yes he does link our defense and forward line, but doesn't every midfielder in the world do this? It's an obvious progression through the passage of play...defence to 'mid' and mid to forward. But like you pointed out in your post, he needs to receive the ball in a good position and have a player make a good run into a good position. A creative mid can go beyond this and create more if he doesn't have the ball in a good position and if a player doesn't run into a good position. That's the difference.

Edited December 9, 2013 by n i k o

[Embee]

So creativity is based on stats alone?

 

I guess Alex Hleb wasn't a creative player then seeing as his assists stats were always rock bottom 

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

Again Thank You! (Make something out of nothing) (creative)

Hearts midfield nothing. Harry comes on makes a a play out of nothing, which we've missed for 8 weeks.

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

When Hleb played in his preferred position, in the hole he was great... Beacse he was a creative individual! But Once a more creative player came along in Nasri, it was time to leave Arsenal.

[billyheart]

Anyone see that pass with the outside of Mass's foot that was cm peferct and put Ramsey through on goal against Adelaide in the 1st half? Possibly the best pass I've ever seen made by a MH player.

But it's wasn't creative.

If he's role was to play further up the field rather than win the ball deep this wouldn't be a topic.

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

Lol that was one pass dude, I'm sure Hoffman has made a decent pass. You guys don't get the topic, that's the problem. Of Murdoca was cornered with two players againts him could he dribble his way out of it? If Hersi was cornered with two players againts him could he get himself out of it??? Yes he could because Hersi is creative!

[billyheart]

Hersi must have lost all of his 'creativeness' on Saturday then because we struggled to get passed just Aziz on most occasions. Mass is a different player. If he's against 2 he'll pass to the free man and then move into space. Like any deep MF would do. He's not going to take them on and risk give up the ball when he has it in such a dangerous position on the field, like the winger example you have provided can.

There's no doubt our team lacks a fuck load of creativity. But Murdocca isn't the reason. He was a solid part of a very successful and 'creative' roar team.

Not recruiting a genuine #10 and then playing Poor Willo there, now there's the issue.