harps21 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Looks like we take to many risks and haven't learnt: Skoko was a risk and didn't pay off. Fred was a risk and we can't get a full 90 minutes out of him. Grella was a risk and lasted 22 minutes. Gary was a risk and has played one game in which we conceded 3 goals. Shall I go on? Bad decision making. Heads need to roll and I blame JD and JA. Im not trying to defend the bloke but the 1 game Gray played none of the goals were his fault IIRC Goal 1 - Hoffman decided he didnt want the ball anymore 5 metres outside box and Fenton ran into open goal Goal 2 - Marronne pushed Brockie fair and square in the back on a cross, penalty Goal 3 - Vrankovic went walk abouts and left Brockie alone in the box, and Bolton should have done better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huzie Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 I recon there are alot of under cover Victory supporters in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviant Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio/Andrew-Redmayne,-Melbourne-Heart/6984 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerou812 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 I recon there are alot of under cover Victory supporters in this thread. Like who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresonlyonebzamora Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Getting defensive there tiger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pringa Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 What about Sidwell having to write a letter to defend JD for after the first game of the season. I can only remember him being overly enthusiastic. What did he actually do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerou812 Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Getting defensive there tiger... Yeah my secret is out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresonlyonebzamora Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Thought so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 On the subject of risks, here's some more: playing 2 guys barely old enough to drink in the centre of defence - Hammill and Good - paid off having a teenage Eli Babalj as your go to man last year - paid off signing Bolton from Sydney when perhaps some thought he was ready to retire - 2 brillant seasons - paid off The club has taken heaps of risks and overall the balance is strongly in the positive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GabiBoyd Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I for one came out of the forum feeling much more positive than when I went in - both in general, and in terms of confidence in JA. As someone said above, it seems like the club is becoming aware of the issues surrounding the club, particularly the difficulty in balancing the different goals of the club (balance sheet, community focus, youth development & silverware). Having said that, JA seemed like the one most in tune with fans' frustration - often in response to a question from the floor, Sidwell would say "you've clearly been talking with JA", stating that they had had several meetings across the season with JA pushing for a strong, stable team as the top priority. It was pointed out by someone that one of the best ways to break even and get more members would be to win something, and JA is a strong advocate of this as well (perhaps obviously as that is his job). The changing tactics after halftime/resorting to long balls/not pressing for the ball are all apparently player-driven actions, completely against JA's instructions. He even said it would be 'stupid of him' to instruct the team to sit back and defend because we simply don't have the players to do that, we're no CCM. So the question is, why aren't the players doing what he tells them to? He blamed a lot of this on youth, lack of experience, and the need for a strong leader on the park. He had hoped that Grella would fill this position and inspire the other players to lift, but it wasn't meant to be. Urgently looking for someone else now. Clearly the problems are still there, still the same as before the forum, but I feel more confident that something will actually be done to address them. Whether that's in time to save this season, is another question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerou812 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 So the players aren't listening to JA or respecting what he has to say or he is not getting his message across to the players. Yes we have some problems but we have had some experienced players for most of the season. It has been some of the older players that have made the mistakes. I think we need strong leadership on the sideline. If the players aren't following the game plan then drop them and play the young kids. Our team is just not well drilled. I just don't think JA is strong enough. I hope he proves me wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 The changing tactics after halftime/resorting to long balls/not pressing for the ball are all apparently player-driven actions, completely against JA's instructions. He even said it would be 'stupid of him' to instruct the team to sit back and defend because we simply don't have the players to do that, we're no CCM. So the question is, why aren't the players doing what he tells them to? He blamed a lot of this on youth, lack of experience, and the need for a strong leader on the park. He had hoped that Grella would fill this position and inspire the other players to lift, but it wasn't meant to be. Urgently looking for someone else now. That is the most disturbing post I have read. So we waited for two-thirds of a season for our 'saviour' to come to lead us? If true, that is just bad management. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sash Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 It's funny with these forums. People who go come out feeling more positive about things. People who don't go but read what was said think it sounds like rubbish. Not saying anyone's right or wrong. But I've noticed the same thing has happened after both. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Defibrillator Posted February 1, 2013 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I fully understand the above. JA wants results and this is more likely with your senior players on the paddock in the short term. You increase your chance in the short term of holding on to your job. But I personally think it's a highly flawed approach. I believe a football manager has an incredibly huge influence on a team. He should dictate style of play and tactics ruthlessly to achieve his vision. To put up with the same players not following instructions week after week not only compromises the chance of success, it's like a cancer in the team. Mediocrity without consequence is a recipe for disaster and, if what he says is true and players aren't doing as they are told, then we have a real problem. I think most fans would tolerate a ruthlessness in our manager to achieve long term success. The beauty of our club is that this philosophy can easily be inmplemented with our youth policy - if you don't do what the fuck I say, then I'll promote a kid who will. You may forego initial results ( and I honestly would accept that) but you will win out in the long run. I can tolerate losing any match, as long as I see 11 players in a red and white short having a real go, and doing exactly what the gaffer says. All of the worlds best managers in all leagues have a "my way or the highway" approach and understand that if their way fails, it's a fickle and cruel industry that will spit them out. But those who insist on a successful plan earn the respect of their players and fans and ultimately experience success. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defibrillator Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 "red and white shirt...." duh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted February 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Great post. Sums up how I feel. Let's get Tony the Yugoslav. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kontra.11 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I vont my money farken! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marteaux Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I'd prefer Crazy Vaclav. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Did anyone ask about injuries and the medical side of things? Ok there is a randomness about injuries, but we seem to getting more than our fair share, every year. This year we have had several from players that seem to have come in training (that is, they looked OK when on the field but next thing we know they are injured). In a salary cap league this can be the difference between winning and losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbobbobmarley Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I fully understand the above. JA wants results and this is more likely with your senior players on the paddock in the short term. You increase your chance in the short term of holding on to your job. But I personally think it's a highly flawed approach. I believe a football manager has an incredibly huge influence on a team. He should dictate style of play and tactics ruthlessly to achieve his vision. To put up with the same players not following instructions week after week not only compromises the chance of success, it's like a cancer in the team. Mediocrity without consequence is a recipe for disaster and, if what he says is true and players aren't doing as they are told, then we have a real problem. I think most fans would tolerate a ruthlessness in our manager to achieve long term success. The beauty of our club is that this philosophy can easily be inmplemented with our youth policy - if you don't do what the fuck I say, then I'll promote a kid who will. You may forego initial results ( and I honestly would accept that) but you will win out in the long run. I can tolerate losing any match, as long as I see 11 players in a red and white short having a real go, and doing exactly what the gaffer says. All of the worlds best managers in all leagues have a "my way or the highway" approach and understand that if their way fails, it's a fickle and cruel industry that will spit them out. But those who insist on a successful plan earn the respect of their players and fans and ultimately experience success. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresonlyonebzamora Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 if you haven't got depth players to replace those that aren't performing, or haven't got the right players to play a 4-3-3 formation due to injury etc then what's a manager to do? admittedly some of our transfers have been here or there, and our youth policy is still there fr the most part but i think we would see more youth if they were up to it. if they aren't up to it, what's the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 if you haven't got depth players to replace those that aren't performing, or haven't got the right players to play a 4-3-3 formation due to injury etc then what's a manager to do? admittedly some of our transfers have been here or there, and our youth policy is still there fr the most part but i think we would see more youth if they were up to it. if they aren't up to it, what's the point? Change formation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defibrillator Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 if you haven't got depth players to replace those that aren't performing, or haven't got the right players to play a 4-3-3 formation due to injury etc then what's a manager to do? admittedly some of our transfers have been here or there, and our youth policy is still there fr the most part but i think we would see more youth if they were up to it. if they aren't up to it, what's the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defibrillator Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 It's not about having the players early on. It's about setting a standard that is expected in effort and following instructions. Once you have set the tone, then you teach the kids (which is what a coach should do after all!!) or you go and get what you want and move on the deadwood. What we are accepting at the moment is ill discipline, mediocre football and poor effort. This is a slow burn to achieve success and requires a coach of strong character and will. I'm not saying sack the bloke at present - he is learning too. But unless he gets his act together soon and takes control, the damage to this club will more than outlast his appointment (no matter how long that will be!!) for many, many years. Culture takes years to mould, but can be eroded in a very short time. This is the same for any business/workplace/sporting club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresonlyonebzamora Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 i ultimately agree with most of that defrib, i think the culture is financial rather than managerial however. if you haven't got depth players to replace those that aren't performing, or haven't got the right players to play a 4-3-3 formation due to injury etc then what's a manager to do? admittedly some of our transfers have been here or there, and our youth policy is still there fr the most part but i think we would see more youth if they were up to it. if they aren't up to it, what's the point? Change formation. don't be ridiculous peter to be fair, 4-3-3 is the 'culture' that the club wants to establish, so it's going to take years as defrib said to build. so if we were to change formation, we would see short term (and god forbid long term!) results but that would go back on the supposed culture we've intended to enforce throughout the first three seasons? sadly it's damned if you do damned if you don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 i ultimately agree with most of that defrib, i think the culture is financial rather than managerial however. if you haven't got depth players to replace those that aren't performing, or haven't got the right players to play a 4-3-3 formation due to injury etc then what's a manager to do? admittedly some of our transfers have been here or there, and our youth policy is still there fr the most part but i think we would see more youth if they were up to it. if they aren't up to it, what's the point? Change formation. don't be ridiculous peter to be fair, 4-3-3 is the 'culture' that the club wants to establish, so it's going to take years as defrib said to build. so if we were to change formation, we would see short term (and god forbid long term!) results but that would go back on the supposed culture we've intended to enforce throughout the first three seasons? sadly it's damned if you do damned if you don't It is clear that we are not going to change formation. As I posted in the "sack Aloisi" thread: "Adelaide was the first time I saw us confidently take it to a compact side. Last night we looked good for most of the match except for maybe a 15 minute period. We should have been up at half time. If JA is planning on only playing the one style, which now seems like he is, then next season had better be right and our squad needs to be shaped around our playing style. With three transfer periods since he took over and the salary cap covered there will be no more excuses." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresonlyonebzamora Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 100% agree. i think too many individual mistakes cost us last night - that's a story for another thread though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 don't be ridiculous peter to be fair, 4-3-3 is the 'culture' that the club wants to establish, so it's going to take years as defrib said to build. so if we were to change formation, we would see short term (and god forbid long term!) results but that would go back on the supposed culture we've intended to enforce throughout the first three seasons? sadly it's damned if you do damned if you don't But surely you have to have a little more flexibility than that? If you have such a rigid playing formation then the other teams quickly work out what that is and how to counter it. Which, looking at our results, is possibly what has happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresonlyonebzamora Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 jw i agree, don't get me wrong there. however it is kind of indicative of how the management must feel when we want to establish a culture (which appears to be formation based as well as youth based) but we also want flexibility in the formation and don't want to play kids if they're having a shocker. i would like to see more flexibility in formations and kids getting a chance without sacrificing culture and/or results, but that is a very difficult middle ground to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGaffer Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 i ultimately agree with most of that defrib, i think the culture is financial rather than managerial however. if you haven't got depth players to replace those that aren't performing, or haven't got the right players to play a 4-3-3 formation due to injury etc then what's a manager to do? admittedly some of our transfers have been here or there, and our youth policy is still there fr the most part but i think we would see more youth if they were up to it. if they aren't up to it, what's the point? Change formation. don't be ridiculous peter to be fair, 4-3-3 is the 'culture' that the club wants to establish, so it's going to take years as defrib said to build. so if we were to change formation, we would see short term (and god forbid long term!) results but that would go back on the supposed culture we've intended to enforce throughout the first three seasons? sadly it's damned if you do damned if you don't With three transfer periods since he took over and the salary cap covered there will be no more excuses." That is all good and well HOWEVER...has anyone asked whether he has access to cash to go out and buy the players he needs? So far in his coaching term he has lost his entire backline (Good, Hamill, Behinch and Marrone) and either has not found adequate replacements out there or the board has told him "there is no money available and do what you can with what you have left". I personally think that under the circumstances, with the constant injuries to Fred, somewhat Colosimo and the unexpected retirement of Grella, that there would have been a signing or two by now if the club was serious about making the finals, but its more likely that they have decided to balance the books and just play out this season..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) That is all good and well HOWEVER...has anyone asked whether he has access to cash to go out and buy the players he needs? So far in his coaching term he has lost his entire backline (Good, Hamill, Behinch and Marrone) and either has not found adequate replacements out there or the board has told him "there is no money available and do what you can with what you have left". I personally think that under the circumstances, with the constant injuries to Fred, somewhat Colosimo and the unexpected retirement of Grella, that there would have been a signing or two by now if the club was serious about making the finals, but its more likely that they have decided to balance the books and just play out this season..... Don't forget that as well as the minimum wage per player there's actually a minimum total wages that must be paid to the senior squad -I think it's 85% of the salary cap. So a club can't have everyone on the basic wage. Also Munn tweeted yesterday he hoped that we would sign a couple of players to help our run to the finals and that he thought we would sneak 5th or 6th position. I support Peter's view. With wages up to the salary cap taken care of by FFA, and eight months to go until next season, there are no excuses for Heart not to have the right squad in place for next season and indeed the next few seasons. I don't think it's so much a matter of what we can afford, rather that we cannot afford another season of mediocrity. Edited February 4, 2013 by jw1739 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 don't be ridiculous peter to be fair, 4-3-3 is the 'culture' that the club wants to establish, so it's going to take years as defrib said to build. so if we were to change formation, we would see short term (and god forbid long term!) results but that would go back on the supposed culture we've intended to enforce throughout the first three seasons? sadly it's damned if you do damned if you don't But surely you have to have a little more flexibility than that? If you have such a rigid playing formation then the other teams quickly work out what that is and how to counter it. Which, looking at our results, is possibly what has happened? Don't confuse our formation with our system. 4-3-3, 3-4-3, 4-2-3-1 and all the other possibilities are variations on the 4-3-3 theme. The advantage they have is that they allow natural triangles and possession based football whilst allowing wide space for attacking RB and LB. 4-4-2 congests the wide spaces and works against playing out from the back with the full backs. There are many different ways to play a 4-3-3 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huzie Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 When's next fan forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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