Domestic Politics

[Tesla]

Seems like the issue has a fairly simple solution, just treat it as any other face covering (mask, motorbike helmet, etc.) Not an expert but I'm guessing current law is along the lines of people must remove face coverings if asked to do so by police and any individual business/premises has the right to ban people from its premises if they have a face covering. Though I also remember my high school telling us all that masks were illegal in public places in the lead up to muck up day but petty sure they were full of shit.

Regardless, why would this be a federal issue? Honestly might as well abolish the states since very few people seem to understand the concept of a federation.

Not that I'm for abolishing the states, but they are almost irrelevant with the complete ignorance people have in this country in regard to the concept of federation.

Federal Government’s from both sides of Parliament try to legislate on everything these days... just look at Education and Health under both Abbott and Rudd.

 

And the High Court has hardly been any barrier towards the erosion of Australian Federalism.

Exactly what I'm, talking about.

It's just the culture here, the average voter doesn't really care or understand why it's better for things to be handled by the states than the federal government, so the government isn't under any pressure to respect federalism. Try pull this shit in the US and they wouldn't stand for it (though it's getting worse there too, still it's very different). Different culture.

There are very few areas that really should be the responsibility of the federal government. Defence, foreign relations, border control, currency, etc.

The vast majority of things should be handled at a state level. That way laws/policies can be better tailored to the population and specific needs, while also creating a certain level of 'competition' between states which will only be beneficial to the average citizen.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Tesla

[Tesla]

So are the inner city communists going to get a job now or ?

Look, they provided some decent entertainment, but now they've well and truly lost. Time to fall back.

[cadete]

So are the inner city communists going to get a job now or ?

Look, they provided some decent entertainment, but now they've well and truly lost. Time to fall back.

Call me a traditionalist but is not the creation of 3700 largely Blue Collar Jobs exactly the kind of objective that a True Marxist should want their Government to achieve?

[Tesla]

Seems proper details have now been released but lack of news reports reporting it.

$6.8 billion

-$3.3 billion from East West Connect

-$2 billion from the Victorian government

-$1.5 billion from the Commonwealth.

So the Vic government really forking out $5.3bn since they will be repaying the amount East West Connect provide (with interest, but people need to get over that fact as it's not that big a deal)

I'll estimate toll revenue at $250m a year (apparently upto 80k cars a day will use it, at a similar toll to other roads, comes up around this figure), which goes to the Vic government under the PPP model used for this road. Some of that will have to be paid to East West Connect for managing the road (important to distinguish this is different from money being paid to cover the financing East West Connect has done as well).

Honestly it won't cost the Victorian government that much money when all is said and done. I suspect that if this was done via the standard PPP as other toll roads it would probably be only that $2bn that the vic gov would pay, so that's probably around the same cost for the vic government if traffic is as expected. Obviously since the vic government is holding the risk under the model used for this road, that could blow out, or it could be more favourable, but all in all the scare tactics of the communists throwing around $18bn figures etc. are complete and utter BS

Edited September 30, 2014 by Tesla

[Tesla]

Also quite significant, the whole citylink, flemington rd, racecourse rd intersection/s will be fixed. Will probably be far from aesthetically pleasing but it will get the job done.

That in itself is worth a fair bit of $$$.

[hedaik]

And all the tram routes that cross Alexandria Pde will now have a quicker journey. 

[xXJawsaXx]

I don't get the problem others on the left have with the East-West link. Yeah, it would be good to have public transport upgraded, but there will be massive benefits to building this thing. I can admit that and I don't even drive.

[Tesla]

Some nice things for cyclists as well. Such is Dr Napthine's benevolence that he has even provided for the commies that worked day and night to destroy him and his signature project.

[n i k o]

Looks like east west link will be 80kmh all the way through. When will they learn to do things properly first time.

[hedaik]

Think all tunnels are 80kmh to reduce accidents.

Hardly matters anyway, everybody seems to slow to 40kmh for no reason at all inside a tunnel as it is anyway.

[Tesla]

It's 4.4km long.

Going at 100km/h it will take 2:38

Going at 80km/h it will take 3:18

Not really stressing those 40 seconds. Especially since, in practice, you'd probably never get a chance to do 100 because people love driving 20km/h under the speed limit on normal freeways, in a tunnel that's far worse (as hedaik mentions). In an 80 speed limit you'd get closer to the speed limit, so it wouldn't even be a 40 second difference.

I think hedaik is right about the accidents part. 80 has become the top speed limit in tunnels and even on bridges (west gate at least), especially when there is no emergency lane. Even when there is no traffic (as the other reason for dropping the speed down in freeway is fo better traffic flow). Just cost/benefit really, too many negatives to a crash in a tunnel.

The beauty of freeways, you could drive it at 40km/h and get from one end to the other quicker than driving the current route.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Tesla

[FB.]

Seems proper details have now been released but lack of news reports reporting it.$6.8 billion-$3.3 billion from East West Connect-$2 billion from the Victorian government-$1.5 billion from the Commonwealth.So the Vic government really forking out $5.3bn since they will be repaying the amount East West Connect provide (with interest, but people need to get over that fact as it's not that big a deal)I'll estimate toll revenue at $250m a year (apparently upto 80k cars a day will use it, at a similar toll to other roads, comes up around this figure), which goes to the Vic government under the PPP model used for this road. Some of that will have to be paid to East West Connect for managing the road (important to distinguish this is different from money being paid to cover the financing East West Connect has done as well).Honestly it won't cost the Victorian government that much money when all is said and done. I suspect that if this was done via the standard PPP as other toll roads it would probably be only that $2bn that the vic gov would pay, so that's probably around the same cost for the vic government if traffic is as expected. Obviously since the vic government is holding the risk under the model used for this road, that could blow out, or it could be more favourable, but all in all the scare tactics of the communists throwing around $18bn figures etc. are complete and utter BS

Erm, that figures for stage 1.

The 18 bill is for what the entire project is expected to top.

[Tesla]

Seems proper details have now been released but lack of news reports reporting it.$6.8 billion-$3.3 billion from East West Connect-$2 billion from the Victorian government-$1.5 billion from the Commonwealth.So the Vic government really forking out $5.3bn since they will be repaying the amount East West Connect provide (with interest, but people need to get over that fact as it's not that big a deal)I'll estimate toll revenue at $250m a year (apparently upto 80k cars a day will use it, at a similar toll to other roads, comes up around this figure), which goes to the Vic government under the PPP model used for this road. Some of that will have to be paid to East West Connect for managing the road (important to distinguish this is different from money being paid to cover the financing East West Connect has done as well).Honestly it won't cost the Victorian government that much money when all is said and done. I suspect that if this was done via the standard PPP as other toll roads it would probably be only that $2bn that the vic gov would pay, so that's probably around the same cost for the vic government if traffic is as expected. Obviously since the vic government is holding the risk under the model used for this road, that could blow out, or it could be more favourable, but all in all the scare tactics of the communists throwing around $18bn figures etc. are complete and utter BS

Erm, that figures for stage 1.

The 18 bill is for what the entire project is expected to top.I'm well aware. But it doesn't change that it was just a scare tactic as they tried to trick people into thinking it was just for stage 1. Plus that's the maximum construction cost. Based on 8bn max for stage 1 and 10bn max for stage 2. Stage 1 has come in at 6.3bn. So already that 18bn figure is down to 16.3bn. But that's the construction cost, not the cost to the Victorian government. The cost to the Victorian government for stage 1 is probably only that 2bn I mentioned in my other post, as I think they've structured it similar to if the private sector was collecting all the tolls for themselves and that would cover their fees for managing the road and for their financial contribution. Instead the risk has been shifted to the government for this road so the government will collect the tolls, and if they are at expected levels, that revenue should cover the fees to the private sector for managing and financing the role.

If stage 1 costs the Vic government 2bn, I really don't think stage 2 will cost much more. Yes it's construction cost will be more but it had the better cost/benefit analysis I believe so should collect more tolls. Regardless, even if stage 2 was at a cost of 3bn to the Vic government, that's 5bn total, not 18bn.

Let's no forget the real issue here is the exorbitant construction costs we face in the country. Time for a crack down on the unions, then we can build these projects at a much lower cost.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Tesla

[cadete]

 

 

Seems proper details have now been released but lack of news reports reporting it.$6.8 billion-$3.3 billion from East West Connect-$2 billion from the Victorian government-$1.5 billion from the Commonwealth.So the Vic government really forking out $5.3bn since they will be repaying the amount East West Connect provide (with interest, but people need to get over that fact as it's not that big a deal)I'll estimate toll revenue at $250m a year (apparently upto 80k cars a day will use it, at a similar toll to other roads, comes up around this figure), which goes to the Vic government under the PPP model used for this road. Some of that will have to be paid to East West Connect for managing the road (important to distinguish this is different from money being paid to cover the financing East West Connect has done as well).Honestly it won't cost the Victorian government that much money when all is said and done. I suspect that if this was done via the standard PPP as other toll roads it would probably be only that $2bn that the vic gov would pay, so that's probably around the same cost for the vic government if traffic is as expected. Obviously since the vic government is holding the risk under the model used for this road, that could blow out, or it could be more favourable, but all in all the scare tactics of the communists throwing around $18bn figures etc. are complete and utter BS

Erm, that figures for stage 1.

The 18 bill is for what the entire project is expected to top. I'm well aware. But it doesn't change that it was just a scare tactic as they tried to trick people into thinking it was just for stage 1. Plus that's the maximum construction cost. Based on 8bn max for stage 1 and 10bn max for stage 2. Stage 1 has come in at 6.3bn. So already that 18bn figure is down to 16.3bn. But that's the construction cost, not the cost to the Victorian government. The cost to the Victorian government for stage 1 is probably only that 2bn I mentioned in my other post, as I think they've structured it similar to if the private sector was collecting all the tolls for themselves and that would cover their fees for managing the road and for their financial contribution. Instead the risk has been shifted to the government for this road so the government will collect the tolls, and if they are at expected levels, that revenue should cover the fees to the private sector for managing and financing the role.

If stage 1 costs the Vic government 2bn, I really don't think stage 2 will cost much more. Yes it's construction cost will be more but it had the better cost/benefit analysis I believe so should collect more tolls. Regardless, even if stage 2 was at a cost of 3bn to the Vic government, that's 5bn total, not 18bn.

Let's no forget the real issue here is the exorbitant construction costs we face in the country. Time for a crack down on the unions, then we can build these projects at a much lower cost.

 

Of course it was also misrepresented by some in the Left that the Federal Funding for the project could be spent elsewhere on things like Public Transport which was in fact never the case.

[MaliMate]

Also quite significant, the whole citylink, flemington rd, racecourse rd intersection/s will be fixed. Will probably be far from aesthetically pleasing but it will get the job done.

That in itself is worth a fair bit of $$$.

I use this intersection for work cause I'm a cheap cunt that doesn't want to pay $10 tolls everyday. Will the non-toll route become quicker? As in Tulla-Kings Way for example

[Tesla]

Also quite significant, the whole citylink, flemington rd, racecourse rd intersection/s will be fixed. Will probably be far from aesthetically pleasing but it will get the job done.

That in itself is worth a fair bit of $$$.

I use this intersection for work cause I'm a cheap cunt that doesn't want to pay $10 tolls everyday. Will the non-toll route become quicker? As in Tulla-Kings Way for example

Fucking hell, you are a cheap cunt lol. I feel like a cheap cunt when I avoid citylink, but from where I live it generally doesn't end up being much faster at all, apart from going to flemington rd which is very much worth the $2.50 or w/e it is.

Hard to say, they are building a new road between Racecourse Rd and Mt Alexander Rd which should remove some traffic from the intersections there with boundary rd, race course rd, flemington / mt alexander rd.

As well as other improvements at that intersection.

There will be less cunts coming off Citylink to go onto Elliot Av, so that might help things?

There will be a new interchange at Ormond rd, so people can go city-bound from there as well, not 100% sure if that will access citylink as well or just the new fwy, but either way should remove some traffic if you're going the full cheap route (down mt alaxander rd).

Down side is there will be more traffic going between that intersection and the eastern fwy (using the new fwy), so some of that could end up going onto flemington rd or mt alaxandaer rd or racecourse rd.

[Tesla]

http://www.smh.com.au/business/nbn-carveup-rejected-as-vertigan-recommendations-sidelined-20141001-10ouqu.html

10/10 report :clap:

Got to love democracy, experts are hired to conduct a review and make recommendations, they make a series of great recommendations, government probably won't implement any of them.

[hedaik]

Bit like the show Utopia on ABC. Do a community consultation, choose the least wanted project because it sounds good, then spend the entire time trying to justify the decision and fudging the figures to make it viable. 

[Tesla]

So,

How long until Australian ground forces are in Iraq and Syria?

Couple of weeks?

#freekurdistan

[Deviant]

Couple of weeks before they move into broadmeadows? How do you get your info?

[Tesla]

Lol.

Seriously though, why do movements like "Free Palestine" become popular, but no one has any love for a "Free Kurdistan" movement?

Despite the later being a larger ethnic group without a state, having shown they can effectively govern and protect themselves, apparently with fairly democratic and inclusive views, etc.?

Or am I wrong for trying to utilise logic when it comes to such matters?

#freekurdistan

[Deviant]

Too many countries involved, each not wanting to lose their lands.

[cadete]

Lol.

Seriously though, why do movements like "Free Palestine" become popular, but no one has any love for a "Free Kurdistan" movement?

Despite the later being a larger ethnic group without a state, having shown they can effectively govern and protect themselves, apparently with fairly democratic and inclusive views, etc.?

Or am I wrong for trying to utilise logic when it comes to such matters?

#freekurdistan

 

Too many countries involved, each not wanting to lose their lands.

It is actually even more simple that...

 

The Far Left much like the Far Right has always had a historical tradition of being Anti Semitic and the Free Palestine movement allows for such time honoured tradition to continue to occur under the Politically Correct veil of PPL being: AntI Zionist.

 

Obviously such benefits are not on offer if someone wants to be Pro Kurdistan.

[Deviant]

Whatever happens, happens.

Really I just care about Melbourne and the wellbeing of this great and world's best city.

[AyeCee]

 

Lol.

Seriously though, why do movements like "Free Palestine" become popular, but no one has any love for a "Free Kurdistan" movement?

Despite the later being a larger ethnic group without a state, having shown they can effectively govern and protect themselves, apparently with fairly democratic and inclusive views, etc.?

Or am I wrong for trying to utilise logic when it comes to such matters?

#freekurdistan

 

Too many countries involved, each not wanting to lose their lands.

It is actually even more simple that...

 

The Far Left much like the Far Right has always had a historical tradition of being Anti Semitic and the Free Palestine movement allows for such time honoured tradition to continue to occur under the Politically Correct veil of PPL being: AntI Zionist.

 

Obviously such benefits are not on offer if someone wants to be Pro Kurdistan.

 

This is the way I see it.

I'm not a fan of Israel, and whilst I wouldn't label myself as anti-semetic, I certainly don't believe they are due any favours. However I still thought it was a bit silly how the movement quickly progressed into a zionist conspiricy theory.

[cadete]

 

 

Lol.

Seriously though, why do movements like "Free Palestine" become popular, but no one has any love for a "Free Kurdistan" movement?

Despite the later being a larger ethnic group without a state, having shown they can effectively govern and protect themselves, apparently with fairly democratic and inclusive views, etc.?

Or am I wrong for trying to utilise logic when it comes to such matters?

#freekurdistan

 

Too many countries involved, each not wanting to lose their lands.

It is actually even more simple that...

 

The Far Left much like the Far Right has always had a historical tradition of being Anti Semitic and the Free Palestine movement allows for such time honoured tradition to continue to occur under the Politically Correct veil of PPL being: AntI Zionist.

 

Obviously such benefits are not on offer if someone wants to be Pro Kurdistan.

 

This is the way I see it.

I'm not a fan of Israel, and whilst I wouldn't label myself as anti-semetic, I certainly don't believe they are due any favours. However I still thought it was a bit silly how the movement quickly progressed into a zionist conspiricy theory.

 

I am a neutral when it comes to whole conflict myself and often find myself empathetic to the Palestinian cause, however the reality is that Zionist stuff is often taken way too far by a lot of PPL (Not All) campaigning for the #FreePalestine cause.

Edited October 8, 2014 by cadete

[xXJawsaXx]

Lol.

Seriously though, why do movements like "Free Palestine" become popular, but no one has any love for a "Free Kurdistan" movement?

Despite the later being a larger ethnic group without a state, having shown they can effectively govern and protect themselves, apparently with fairly democratic and inclusive views, etc.?

Or am I wrong for trying to utilise logic when it comes to such matters?

#freekurdistan

I honestly care more about an independent Kurdistan than Palestine. Seriously.

[HeartFc]

#freethekardashians

[caveat]

Anyone listen to Michael Obrien and Martin Pakula on the drive home with raf. 

Interesting analysis of both jobs package

[Pete Heartspur]

#freewilly

[cadete]

 

Lol.

Seriously though, why do movements like "Free Palestine" become popular, but no one has any love for a "Free Kurdistan" movement?

Despite the later being a larger ethnic group without a state, having shown they can effectively govern and protect themselves, apparently with fairly democratic and inclusive views, etc.?

Or am I wrong for trying to utilise logic when it comes to such matters?

#freekurdistan

I honestly care more about an independent Kurdistan than Palestine. Seriously.

 

I am seriously worried about what might happen with ISIS and the Kurdish Population in Syria in the next couple of days if Turkey do not get involved FWIW.

[Tesla]

Lol.

Seriously though, why do movements like "Free Palestine" become popular, but no one has any love for a "Free Kurdistan" movement?

Despite the later being a larger ethnic group without a state, having shown they can effectively govern and protect themselves, apparently with fairly democratic and inclusive views, etc.?

Or am I wrong for trying to utilise logic when it comes to such matters?

#freekurdistan

I honestly care more about an independent Kurdistan than Palestine. Seriously.

I am seriously worried about what might happen with ISIS and the Kurdish Population in Syria in the next couple of days if Turkey do not get involved FWIW.

If the Kurds survive this whole IS thing, it will end up being the best thing to happen for them.

It's shown they have the most stable region in Iraq.

It's given them greater control of the Kurdish regions in Iraq and Syria, as well as increasing the size of their region.

It has strengthened their relationship with the US.

It has forced Turkey to (almost) get involved (their parliament approved military action), who were trying to stay on the sideline, as they saw the Kurdish relationship with the US getting stronger and so now the Turks are under pressure to strengthen ties with the US by getting involved.

It's forced Turkey to be more friendly towards them, as I think Turkey realises Kurdish independence will now happen in Iraq, if not Syria as well, and the best move Turkey can make is to support this as the state for Kurds, rather than the Kurdish region in Turkey being viewed as a potential state for the Kurds. In other words, the kurds having their own state may relieve tension in the Kurdish region of Turkey,m so it might not be the worst thing for Turkey if the Kurds gain independence in Iraq/Syria.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Tesla

[Tesla]

I wonder if after all this is over, cunts will finally learn to stop trying to manipulate things in the Middle East, it always back fires. Like the 1000 times its backfired on the US, where the cunts they help then turn in to there enemies, or even Saudia Arabia, cunts who supporter, financed, and promoted sunni extremism more than anyone but now they're shitting themselves that IS will do them over too and have had to join the fight against IS

Edited October 8, 2014 by Tesla

[marteaux]

Or the US now training and offering small arms PKK - which is still recognised largely as a terrorist group.

I've been following the Kurd involvement in the conflict a bit and I agree with what Tesla has said in the fact that ISIS has been somewhat beneficial to a Kurdistan nation state being formed. They have had to retake resource rich areas of Iraq that were taken over by ISIS, and by doing so gaining more economic asset that'll support their claims for down the track.

If Kurdistan is to exist, chummying up to the US and doing the hard yards on the ground against ISIS seems to be their best bet considering their UN clout and the power they hold over Turkey through NATO. They have a track record of being well organised and reliable when workig with the West beginning in 2003.

PS I remember reading some shit about if an IS fighter is killed by a woman they can't enter the Islamic equivalent to Christian heaven. If so, should make for lots of even madder terrorists considering how many women fight in the PKK/Peshmerga. One such example was a recent female suicide bomber killing 27 ISIS fighters. Fuck they'd be mad.

Also take a moment of thought for the plight of the moderate Syrian rebel who are now fighting not only Assad (who is absolutely dominating them), but former friendly forces in the Al Nusra Front and ISIS..

Edited October 8, 2014 by marteaux

[Tesla]

I honestly think it's pretty much a done deal. They're (Iraqi Kurdistan) meant to have a referendum this year, with the US on their side now all they need is the referendum and it's sorted. Turkey and Iran will probably kick up a fuss and not allow them to be called Kurdistan, so they'll probably be called Southern Kurdistan or something. They have a fuckload of oil compared to their population, so they'll have money, but that sort of thing can also cause instability as well so who knows.

I don't really know the history and the fighting that has gone on between the Kurds and Turkey or others too well, but regardless I can't see the problem with creating a country that looks like it has a chance of being fairly stable, democratic and inclusive, out of a failed state like Iraq.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Tesla

[cadete]

I honestly think it's pretty much a done deal. They're (Iraqi Kurdistan) meant to have a referendum this year, with the US on their side now all they need is the referendum and it's sorted. Turkey and Iran will probably kick up a fuss and not allow them to be called Kurdistan, so they'll probably be called Southern Kurdistan or something. They have a fuckload of oil compared to their population, so they'll have money, but that sort of thing can also cause instability as well so who knows.

I don't really know the history and the fighting that has gone on between the Kurds and Turkey or others too well, but regardless I can't see the problem with creating a country that looks like it has a chance of being fairly stable, democratic and inclusive, out of a failed state like Iraq.

You are simplifying Kurdish and Turkish relations,

 

Many Turks treat and consider Kurds as an under class like how Eastern European countries treat Gypsies so an inevitable Kurdish state next to Turkey is bound to have a lot teething problems... in saying that I agree with your assessment of where things are headed.

Edited October 8, 2014 by cadete

[marteaux]

But have Kurds given Turkish actual reasons for hating them like gypsies have given in Europe?

Or it just a modern day extension of the Ottoman trend of committing genocide for no real reason at all?

[cadete]

But have Kurds given Turkish actual reasons for hating them like gypsies have given in Europe?

Or it just a modern day extension of the Ottoman trend of committing genocide for no real reason at all?

I am not qualified to answer that question... except to say obviously its pretty hard to mount a case for any form of domestic discrimination that occurs in any country. 

 

However, you are right in saying that due to his long history of Multiculturalism and Conflict a lot of Racism is still prevalent in Turkish society today... this being of course the inescapable norm for all countries of its size in its region of the world.

Edited October 9, 2014 by cadete

[Tesla]

He's right tbh http://www.news.com.au/national/anthony-albanese-breaks-ranks-with-labor-on-antiterror-laws/story-fncynjr2-1227087821126

Edited October 12, 2014 by Tesla

[AyeCee]

So who are you putting your money on for when these two have it out?

For me, you can't go past Abbott. Previously has competed in boxing, and is a pretty fit cunt. Also look at the chest hair comparison.

Putin may have worked with the KGB, but he trained in Judo, which is for little girls. Rumours are that he once went toe to toe with wild animals, but Tone is on a whole different level imo.