Defibrillator

I'll ask the perennial question - does anyone think we can win this year with JVS? My feeling is very few of us. So in my mind it's time to be bold. We may never have a 10 as good as Mooy for years and a striker in red hot form taking the piss. This is a rare moment in the A league and may only be fleeting. I think we should try a shock, cash in with this squad, get a new manager now and try and sneak a trophy. I don't give a shit who it is - even some hard ass like Kosmina could organise a defence (and he's only an example so don't go nuts) - but the moment is passing and may not be back in a hurry. I'd rather be bold and fail rather than limp along like we are now. I just feel we're pissing all the talent we've got up against a wall. CFG should have the balls to just go for it!!

I disagree slightly Tesla - we've scored against a highly defensive Sydney as well as WSW. I think the problem is more that teams sit deep and compact knowing we're going to storm up the park with a stupidly high line and just pick us off on the counter. The weekend a case in point and the last WSW game embarrassing how far the midfield was ahead of their breaks. By ploughing forward we're clogging up all sorts of space and leaving gaping holes. Just for once I'd like us to sit a bit deeper with an organised midfield to draw a team out and give Mooy, Bruno and Harry some space to work in.

Been giving this a lot of thought - I'm enjoying this thread. I partly disagree with the above Bela - I agree the coaching is contributing to our woes at present, but I think a 3-5-2 is definitely wrong for this team and is certainly not playing to our strengths. We don't have three quality CBs (I would argue 2), we don't have fit full backs who can get up and down the park all day (crucial to a 3-5-2 to prevent wide opposition attacks which are killing us - but we do have two quality full backs working themselves in to fitness) and we haven't been playing midfielders with intelligence to screen the back 3. The strength of our team is the 10 and the two lads up front - they have been performing with little midfield support. My mind on the 3-5-2 changed in the Wellington home game - the first half arguably the best football we've played this year. The thing that stood out like dogs balls was the instruction for the 6 and 8 to sit and screen the defence. Paartalu amd Caceras were brilliant in this game for this (and Malik moved in) and nothing got through. Melling went in there for the last 10 minutes and was woeful. The thoughts above about intelligent midfielders is spot on - only look at Wanderers away with Paartalu having a shocker and going walkabout so many times (the ultimate frustration for me with Paartalu was his inconsistency - you never knew what you were going to get). I don't think Retre has the quality to work smartly with a team mate and I sure as hell know Melling doesn't. To me this team should be playing 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-1-3 with the 6 and 8 sitting deep and well structured (Malik and Caceras) - exactly what WSW are doing to great effect with Dimas and Andreau. The fullbacks need not be so suicidally advanced like at present - they're not fit enough anyway but a deep 6 and 8 can tuck in if they get adventurous. The forward third is looking after itself and should be left to do its work. Bruno, Harry and Mooy usually conjure something amongst themselves - imagine just this week, with Brunos brilliant effort, if the other end of the park was well protected - bank the points. This push forward at all costs (which is implicit in a 3-5-2) is failing against disciplined teams at the top of the table. Sure it's been good for shits and giggles against crap opposition, but how many on here think this formation and mentality can deliver us the title? I'd suspect not many. I honestly think we we have the players who are smart enough, skilled enough and disciplined enough to gel together but the formation is wrong and the team instruction is wrong. I'd try: Sorensen Franic. Wilkinson. Paddy. Zullo Caceras. Malik Mooy Fitzgerald. Bruno. Harry with the option to push Mooy up and isolate Bruno higher if that was working better. Ditch the 3-5-2.

And they're nearly through again on another quick transition from one of our corners. This is an epic coaching failure not to have systems sorted for this - even down a man.

I just want to win. A good team puts the foot on the oppositions throat when they can dominate, but a good team also realises when they've got a battle on their hands, adjusts as necessary, and finds a way to win. "All guns blazing" means you can quickly run out of ammunition. 3 points always shuts up most critics - no matter how it is achieved.

What shits me about last night is how fucking dumb we were. It was obvious they were coming at us directly and quickly yet the description above of "kamikaze" is perfect. You don't have to push up every game and try and kick 3-4 goals. No patience to sit back, absorb pressure, keep the 6 and 8 disciplined in front of the back three, tell your full backs to be cautious and play to the obvious strength of our team which is to allow Bruno/Harry/Mooy to show their brilliance. It's called adapting to the most difficult away environment in the league, taking a pragmatic approach to cover your weaknesses and try and exploit your strengths. Fuck a point is a good result up there. But this attack at all costs with no situational awareness is just beyond the pale.

I'm a bit more confident of a result here after watching our midfield on the weekend. WSW have the best midfield in the comp and beaten us there in both the games at AAMI - destroying us in the first game especially. If we can maintain the midfield discipline and shape our forwards should be too good for them. It's a tough gig but would really make a statement to the A league to win in the most hostile environment.

Use Melling exclusively as a defender. He's better there than in midfield and arguably better than Clisby.

Just home and a great day at the football had by the whole family. Watched the girls who deserved their win well before extra time (a just result given their dominance) and well done to Melburnians - a few hardcore there to cheer the girls on and the noise at the start of the match the loudest I've heard in quite a while. Added to a fantastic night. I'm in a minority of opinion on here about our defence so far this season. I've maintained the crux of the problem is the midfield and the lack of screening cover. Well tonight, in the first half especially, we were excellent. Caceras to me just looked fantastic. Whilst not flashy, if Paartalu drifted out of shape he was incredibly aware and covered him really well and communicated well. They looked like two guys who had played together for a while and Caceras is a much better ball user than big Erik. In fact a 6 and 8 combination of Malik and Caceras is something I would really like to see. Both Malik and Caceras were disciplined, held shape and always looking around all the time to work with their partner. And if you wanted any evidence of how much improved we were in midfield, watch the replay from 80 minutes on when Melling went in there. I know he's a forum favorite, but he has a "see ball, get ball" mentality which dragged us out of shape and helped cede the midfield. The spray he got from both Mooy and JVS at varying times were appropriate - he was like a headless chook charging around and neglecting his defensive responsibilities to the team. Makes me wonder if he is better suited to the back 3/4? He has to hold shape there and it ties him down to a disciplined role. And the result of the improved midfield? Statistically probably our best defensive effort this season. 9 shots on goal with 4 on target for Wellington and zero big chances created (compared to the high teens or low 20's shots we've regularly been conceding for a lot of the season). Stem the flow in midfield and life gets so much easier. And the goal for them? A brilliant strike from distance due to a soft midfield turnover from Paartalu. The defence couldn't be blamed for that. Also great to see our first choice fullbacks on together - they were pretty good both ways. I admit Paddy K and Hughes aren't perfect, I just don't think they're as bad as everyone thinks they are. Harry and Bruno just great again (despite Harry's ball use in general play below par from what we've seen) and Mooy sluggish early but still damaging. I love how all three of them push right to the whistle, and Bruno getting fired up in extra time after some rough attention is something we wouldn't have seen in the Heart days - a bit of resolve. There's a lot to like going forward. Tonight really was good fun and get Paartalu a bit more reliable with his passing or drop Malik in there instead and this could be a very interesting season. And let's not forget a potential marquee coming. Hang on, this looks like fun.

At the game and loving this. The midfield have had their best half of the season so far. Paartalu and Caceras working really well together with someone always sitting and breaking up play. We actually have some shape. Caceras looks very smart, disciplined and focussed. I think a big piece of the jigsaw has just fallen in to place.

I still think the bulk of the problems stem from midfield and their shape. Watching WSW and Sydney last night, both had disciplined midfielders with great shape (a 4-2-3-1 vs a 4-4-2) and both midfields working as a unit and defensively stemming forward flow. Compare this to us with Melling and Paartalu haring around, often in front of the ball and little reserve to track, Mooy looking tired, and it's way too easy to traverse the middle of the park. I think more than anything the midfield shape and discipline needs to be sorted. We have conceded the midfield in plenty of games this year but fortunately have the cattle up front to punish the opposition. Get the midfield right and the defence will look a lot more secure.

Just home and buzzing. A great win by the lads when we looked on the ropes for the second half. Our front 1/3 is just so exciting to watch and as noted above they give a shit. To push to the end was just brilliant. I like they have a bit of mongrel too - every bit of niggle we get they give back and won't take a backward step. Watching closely tonight the real worry was the midfield. The 3-5-2 had them on the back foot for the first 25, but once Poppa tweaked it our midfield was pretty well shit until Melling came off and, to JVS's credit, he switched to a 4-3-3 in the last 10 minutes and we looked different. If you want to know why our defence looked so shit, we leaked like a sieve in the middle of the park. Silva's right above - no one playing the disciplined game and sitting in front of our back three/four protecting our CBs. I thought Paartalu was woeful here (how many times in front of Mooy and then couldn't track!!) and added to this he ran out of legs quite early. (Fwiw Demas and Andreau basically ran the midfield for the last 65 minutes and, from a footballing perspective, were a delight to watch play alongside each other. Demas in particular really gave Mooy a hard time once he gave him the respect he deserved. Best midfield I've seen us play against for quite a while - both very disciplined, holding excellent shape and feeding balls forward at will especially to Nicholls). 17 shots on goal from WSW and 12 on target - the ball getting into their front 1/3 way too easily. It was obvious to me Poppa was trying to suck us down the pitch and try and hit our slower CBs on the burst - like their first goal - and it was too easy to achieve with no one filling the space. Hughes better than I thought he would be (ok the OG I'll admit) but he's quite strong on the ball and matched Piovaccari quite well in some one on one duels. Clisby ok but still the wayward turnover too frequently and Paddy K ok. Sorensen made up for his blunder and performed well to keep us alive. We would have crumbled a year ago with losing the midfield but to our credit we kept going and pushing - this to me is the most pleasing thing. Guys give a shit and want to win - just great to see. And are Koren's cards stamped?? Really concerning when your marquee can't even make the bench. Would love to trade him off for a decent number 6 or disciplined 8. Get our best fullbacks back on the park and a decent DM in and this could be a really interesting year!!

I want our NYL coach to develop youth ("what's in a name"?) I want our senior coach to win something by properly utilising this developed youth and ensuring the NYL team is being run to his requirements. Experimentation with clearly underprepared players and not pulling out all stocks to win games is off the table. I would expect the best "youth coaches" described above have an excellent development assistant and are all over and micromanaging the NYL setup.

Surely our patience can't extend that far............ Jvs is still pissing me off and the weekend being a case in point. He seems to enjoy an air of experimentation in squad positions and selection which means we're not settled. I understand injuries have been bad, but despite this players are thrown around in all sorts of positions from week to week and you just can't settle a team. Sitting behind Graeme Arnold on the weekend watching him pull out every stop to cajole and berate to get a win vs Jvs trying ideas was laughable. Annie spotted the weakness immediately and you could hear him try to exploit it immediately. If we're down on personnel because of injury it surely means you take a pragmatic approach and try to negate a game and kill it to some extent. But no, we come out trying to attack and we're lucky to not be 3-0 in the first 20 minutes with more experienced players sitting on the bench. He seems to think it's all about development and an academic exercise rather than being hard nosed and grinding out wins. The opposition shots on goal we are conceding at the moment is alarming and we can't win anything with that happening. He just can't kill a game - or won't. Compare that to Popovic or Arnold who will. And a final point, it's obvious to everyone Koren is struggling in terms of fitness, speed and confidence. Ageing number 10's around the world adapt and play deeper in the 6 or (especially) 8 role because they can't get up and down the park. Whilst their legs are gone, their guile and vision has not. Yet every week he has Koren in an advanced position where he can't track and is slowing down to be effective, thus he goes missing. Week after week. It's just begging for him to be tried deeper in training and yet on the park the team is exposed by the same insanity. It might not work I admit, but it's obvious the way we're using him and the way he's playing is useless. The guy has a CV that tells us he can play but a body that can't. Try something or drop him!!

We're playing the top team with a settled lineup who are patiently dismantling their opposition. We're a merry-go-round with changing lineup and a coach who throws selection places in the air - the youth player subbed after 30 being a case in point. Once we're settled I'll agree with you, but not until then.

I'd be happy with a draw here. We were slaughtered last time by the Wanderers especially in midfield - we didn't fire a shot there. Admittedly we started with Mauk, Melling and Paartalu, but the two Spanish guys in midfield with Nicholls have been the best midfield in the A league this year by a mile. Their guile and discipline has been outstanding. We have to match them to have any chance of winning. Mooy back a real bonus and with Melling gone Paartalu picks himself. I'm going out on a limb here (and start the engines!) but I'll float the idea of picking Koren over Retre to sit deep with Paartalu in a 4-2-3-1. I think we need experience and patience - basically what they've been doing to grind out wins - and Koren needs to pull his head in and play a role for us which he has done before at Hull. Their midfield isn't that quick - it's just clever and experienced. Koren could bring some of that experience - ? more so than Retre. I wouldn't mind at all if Retre was picked and Koren providing midfield cover, but Koren sitting deeper has to happen, and Retre does offer versatility from the bench. If we match the midfield our forwards will do the rest. And give the Gooch a crack on the wing - let him run at them. Harry can play either side so start him on the right and Gooch on the left. Cue the outrage.....................

Never in doubt............ Just home and buggered after having my adrenal glands wrung out for 90 minutes. I thought watching sport was meant to be an enjoyable pastime but after their goal that was 60 minutes of torture. Well done to the lads - the gods smiled on us and we take the points and march on. Two great goals and I loved Retre'a work tonight - he brought a huge amount of energy to the midfield and is improving weekly. He is also quicker than I gave him credit for which is helpful next to QE2 Paartalu. Sorensen clearly MOM and saved our bacon with stunning saves. I think Bruno had a tough night with Delpierre who is in another league compared to recent defenders, but I just love his energy and fight. You can see he's busting his guts and the respect shown by others towards his efforts seems to lift us. So we were a bit lucky, but I think it's really hard to judge some performances tonight because of the conditions. It was just oppressive watching it in the stands let alone playing. Paartalu looked fucked and couldn't track at the end and even Koren struggled with his 10-15 minutes. And Franjic is way off being fit - I can't wait til he is - he provides great drive and cunning. Tactically I would have dropped Mooy deeper and played Koren further up when he came on. Koren was so off the pace fitness wise and he's possibly just one of those players who struggles with heat. Some people just don't have the physiology to deal with it. And what planet is Muscat on when he says the second half was the most one sided in derby history? We were second best in the second half admittedly but he must have missed the numerous chances we had to bury the game and forgets the 4-0 thumping we dished out a few years back. Idiotic statement. Santa came early and I hope everyone on here enjoyed the final result as much as I did. Merry Christmas!!

Don't get me wrong, I love how the guy plays - so exciting to watch. But one weakness he has is his left side (or confidence in it). He's constantly cutting back to his right and I can't remember which goal it was where rounding the keeper he could have rolled it in with his left but chose to turn his body and use his right, making it all look much more difficult. I think with A league defenders this is less of an impediment compared to stronger leagues. It will be interesting to see how he goes against an experienced CB like Delpierre and hopefully he's too quick for him.

Good post Murf. The attack has been great to watch and providing plenty of excitement - something we haven't seen in a while. As you note - some of our play is good. But the old saying "attacks win you games, defences win you championships" keeps ringing in my ears. It's the back that just has me so worried and JVS, over all his tenure (bar a Madaschi inspired run), hasn't been great with the defence. In terms of problem solving and where success will be achieved, this is the elephant in the corner of the room. Whether he can tame or banish it will ultimately decide our season.

Perth had 18 shots on goal (to our 25). That's not a sign of two DMs locking down a midfield and repelling an opposition. They leaked pretty badly. I'd be interested in the number of intercepts and number of times they broke down attacks. I just think there is huge room for improvement here especially in positioning and decision making. And Murf the jury is still out for me on this midfield - namely the DMs. Time will tell

This is spot on Bela. We were somewhat flattered by the scoreline at half time - the defense leaked but I thought the two DMs - especially Retre - had a poor first half and left us exposed a lot. In fact the first half was probably the worst I've seen Retre play and that's saying something. His passing and decision making were poor and he just didn't work well with Paartalu at all. Credit to the kid - he regrouped at half time and got his shit together. Mooy and the front three were exceptional and exciting - it was brilliant to watch. But plenty to fix at the back still and plenty of personnel to return (Franic is a definite step up). A decent Perth CF and the game would have been much more "interesting".

I was thinking the other day, how many years do you have to sit and watch shit football, clueless coaches and a club bereft of a winning culture before you can jump off and NOT be labelled a "fair weather supporter"? A derogatory phrase thrown around a lot but I think everyone's patience is being tested at present!!

Just home and just flat. Despite the dodgy second goal we shouldn't lose sight of the fact we were thrashed across the whole park tonight. It was as abject a performance as I have seen for a while. I know no Mooy and we suffered - but to be so dependent on one player is an indictment on how we set up. The change of formation was just poor and didn't work the whole game. 4-2-3-1 (I suppose to stem the goal flood we've let in recently) had Melling and Paartalu sitting way too deep and inviting them in, Mauk too far forward with no ability to link up, and Bruno far too isolated. The midfield was slaughtered by experienced international professionals who kept their shape. Mauk was a real disappointment tonight - not providing a linking option, not fit enough, and not smart enough to cover if Melling or Paartalu ventured forward. The three of them played disjointed selfish football with no structure or sense of helping each other. The other real disappointment was Kuzmanovski - not presenting, not working back and when he did he is defensively very, very average. He deserved to be subbed at the break. Garruccio just outplayed and had a really poor game. But JVS what can I say? The structure was not working very early and I was sitting behind Poppa and could see he was tweaking all the first half. Often a pressing 4-4-2 to an aggressive forward 4-2-4, he just looked at our structure and overloaded it. He had us on the ropes early and JVS could do very little - or decided to do little! No one stepped up to the fight and this looks like a team not playing for their manager - obvious when you compare the interplay between players and their respective benches. His cards have to be marked surely. And if Hughes is injured that just takes the cake - the ageing recruit syndrome is beyond a joke now. To keep making this mistake just defies belief. Something has to change. Two primetime home games and we serve up this shit. What chance to grow the club??

I disagree with many above. I don't think he has the qualities now as a 6 to create sustained success for us. I think a good 6 is such a linchpin in any team and critical to success at any level. My concerns are: His fitness - a good 6 has to run the whole game and have elite levels of fitness to cover the back four at all times. I think this is really hard for someone of his size frame and his fitness has been questionable since he joined us. He's often caught out of position and has difficulty recovering. His ability to push up the park with the 8 dropping in is really poor - he just can't sustain anything. His passing - an ability to complete passes is crucial from the point of view that the passes are often made deeper on the park - any turnover is far more costly. He simply turns the ball over way too deeply - in fact it's embarrassing this year and hence why he was dropped. His mongrel - I think he's too passive. A 6 has to take the team yellow to protect the back four when everyone's out of shape. I just don't see him doing these mongrel acts at times when clearly called for. I also actually think his tackling is pretty poor for a 6 - a quality that is crucial. His vision - the best 6s can spot the game breaking pass to open up an opposition defence if possible. I've never seen him do this and I don't know if he can. His offensive assets are poor. His history - whilst a good history at Brisbane in the A league, did anyone see him in the ACL when with Brisbane? For all of the above he was a disaster against better opposition in big games. From memory Brisbane did not win an ACL game when he was there. Whilst we all think of guys like Yaya Toure , Matic, even Coquelin from the EPL alone, do good 6s appear in the A-league? Putting our hate for other teams aside, names like Milligan (when deep), Brattan, Valeri, even Mooy when deep spring to mind. Good players with the ability to create havoc both ways and the ability to concentrate for a whole game.. Paartalu is so off the mark in my mind.

This!!!! Why are people concerned about maintaining "shape" or "structure" when they're clearly failing? This is like saying I don't want to fix something that's broken and useless because I'm worried I'll make it worse, forgetting it's broken in the first place! They were coming at us aggressively for the last 20-30 minutes and our defence was struggling. Clisby on and quickly obvious not providing the solution. The next thing to do is to then try something else to fix the problem. Another winger is not the answer. We we were lucky Adelaide were crap in finishing. It just concerns me this was a game that demanded to be locked down but we left the gate wide open. Poor management either not to tactically do it, or not to teach a team how to kill a game.