SF33
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Posts posted by SF33
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But Epping is easy for me to get to. Have the owners thought about that?
It's tough for me, but who gives a stuff? It's just where they train. If I can't go to watch training, stiff shit. The only thing that's important to me is that the players and coaches don't have any significant issues getting out there.
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It's a shame as he'll be better with some confidence and 10 or so goals in a few NYL games
Imagine there'd have to be at least a decent chance that he comes back through there, if he's right to go next week. A spot's opened up with Engelaar's absence, but he'd hardly be a like-for-like.
Seeing his enthusiasm after the game last night (he's either the greatest actor in the world, or he was genuinely as happy as any of the guys who played), he seems like a tough guy not to like. I just want him to get some confidence so when he does get back, he'll be in a good position to contribute.
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I do think that he needs to improve in 2 areas, he has given away too many penalties and received too many red cards that have cost us dearly so he needs to become less sloppy. He also needs to work on his short passing as he goes for the long ball far too quickly.
He's only had the one of each, hasn't he? And an additional suspension for yellows, but I would have thought that's just part and parcel of having a couple of players in defence with a bit of mongrel in them. I mean, you'd much rather zero of both, but I'll put up with the odd suspension, if it doesn't reduce us to 10 on the field. I stand to be corrected, but one red and one penalty is hardly an epidemic, for someone who plays like Kisnorbo.
Each cost us a game although of course there were also other contributing factors to this
Well, yeah, things like those usually end up proving costly, though in his defence, it's a big wrap to him to suggest that if he'd been on a park we would have got something out of the Victory game. And both of them were, at the time, a little on the contentious/harsh side. Not defending him for the penalty, but from memory it was one of those 'letter of the law' ones which, if they called it every time it happened, there'd probably be half a dozen penalty shots per game.
Engelaar will get a pass for his red last night, due to the result and I'm certainly not crucifying him for it. But should that really be how it works? Engelaar's dismissal really put us in a very similar hole to Kisnorbo's in the derby and, for whatever reason, the 10 remaining players on the park responded this time and they didn't the last time. But the way I look at it, as probably our nominal 'enforcer' in a team of players who generally don't have the size or the temperament to fill that role (at least until Engelaar returned), one penalty, one red and an additional suspension on cards this season doesn't really strike me as an indicator that he has a significant issue with his discipline.
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I do think that he needs to improve in 2 areas, he has given away too many penalties and received too many red cards that have cost us dearly so he needs to become less sloppy. He also needs to work on his short passing as he goes for the long ball far too quickly.
He's only had the one of each, hasn't he? And an additional suspension for yellows, but I would have thought that's just part and parcel of having a couple of players in defence with a bit of mongrel in them. I mean, you'd much rather zero of both, but I'll put up with the odd suspension, if it doesn't reduce us to 10 on the field. I stand to be corrected, but one red and one penalty is hardly an epidemic, for someone who plays like Kisnorbo.
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Got a lot of manlove for Paddy K. Been absolutely immense since he came back. Gerhardt was good when he got his opportunity at PK's expense at the start of 2014. And, as far as I know, both are saying all the right things when they find themselves sitting on the bench.
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The 20 odd people are probably just city fans who decided to come on board. I only saw one personally last night (thought it might even have been that guy from the city supporters group).
Yeah, good point. I know a fair few City supporters over here who range between non-fussed about the A-League, to 'semi-Victory supporters', to Victory members. I've had a bit of half-joking banter with a few about them signing on with the Heart. And if any of them turned up last night (or for any of the remaining games), I'd be delighted.
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At the risk of sounding naive, is it possible that many people who were wearing City shirts were Sydney supporters? I've occasionally worn a different club/country's red/white shirt to a Heart game in the past.
As for the guy in the half and half shirt, was he definitely a Heart supporter? I would have thought those sort of things would happen quite regularly with rival club's supporters as a bit of a shit stir. And if he does support the Heart, good luck to him. The more people we get on board over the next 10 weeks, the better. What Melburnian said is spot on.
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I still don't get this identity thing. What identity does any club have. Most are pretty much all the same. We all want to play good football and win games. Gee I can't stand the football pundits in this country they really give me the shit's.
Exactly. I mean, you can understand the Victory supporters giving that one a crack, since the ladder position/lack of support taunts are probably going to become redundant in the very near future. All they'll have soon is that they were here first and that many Heart supporters probably started out with Victory. But in a league where we're specifically trying to keep away from the ethnic rivalries of the old NSL (with good reason), what's left? Geography? Yeah, maybe if we'd picked the west/north/south/east or Geelong there would have been more immediate uptake (and that's a big maybe) like there was with WSW - if they'd won immediately, but you're just adding an artificial ceiling to the club (which is why WSW sold for less than Heart did).
Manchester City wanted to buy the club, because they see the potential here. Melbourne is sports mad and they will jump on board with any club that is playing at a high standard in a high quality league, even if it is something of a foreign sport to us (see our Storm attendances). And memberships and attendances can often fluctuate quite wildly, based on the team's performances (see an AFL club like Richmond, that has been around for over 100 years and has gone from 30.8k members in 2008, to 60.3k in 2013).
Currently, Victory and Heart combined claim less than 1% of the Greater Melbourne region as members. And if we continually put out a better product than them over the next 5-10 years, we'll get more sign-ups than them over that period. All the club needs to do is win.
As for an identity, if it's not going to be based on religion/ethnicity and we chose not to make it about geography (and rightly so, in my opinion), what's it going to be based on? Well, that will occur organically, with the supporters, as it becomes a generational thing with families, with the personalities of the players who become stalwarts for the club, the imports that we bring in, the coaches and so on. There's no reason to force it; an identity will clearly be established of its own accord over the next few years. And we'll be a big part of it.
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His easily the most frustrating player in the team, before his typical one-off brilliance, he was just lobbing the ball to noone time and time again giving away possession when we were struggling to get a grip with 10men understandably.
Not sure about that. He'd only been on the park for 20 minutes and by the time he came on, it was pretty clear that a point, given the circumstances, wouldn't have been a bad result. Several times, Williams or Behich got possession and were running up the wing and literally didn't have an option, because everyone was sitting back. So, in that situation, I'd probably rather them take the American Football option and just punt it as far and as high as possible, so Sydney takes over possession deep in their defensive half and our defenders and mids have a few seconds to catch their breath and regroup, rather than trying to invent something, expecting Kewell to win a one on three or something and ultimately giving away the ball to Sydney well in their attacking half.
I like Williams, but not as our marquee Australian, obviously. We'd want someone Williams' age, or a bit younger, who will be in the squad for Brazil and that should be within our reach. I guess whether we keep Williams or not will depend partly on whether he'd accept a more sensible contract than what's been suggested here.
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That red Card tonight was very week, even the fox sports team felt it was to harsh. Not to mention that the sydney players new it was yellow
Hugely disappointing, though it's hard to get too down after tonight's performance. The last thing we needed right now from Engelaar is for him to play 20-odd minutes total in two weeks.
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We'll beat Perth next week too; apart from Gallas, Serna and Smeltz (and maybe Vukovic), they're shit! haha
The smart money would be on Gallas not playing next week, I imagine. Got airborne towards the end of the Victory game tonight and landed awkwardly, looked like he jarred his knee.
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Hate to say it but Hoffman is actually playing well.
With all due respect - why? He's wearing our colours, isn't he?
What an absolutely fantastic win. Seven points in three weeks after giving away the first goal each time. That simply did not happen in the year and a half before JVS came back. I'm proud of everyone who played tonight; there just weren't any passengers, from my perspective. Yeah, the goal that Redmayne conceded was absolutely terrible, but besides that, it was as close to a mistake-free game that I've seen from the Heart (well, serious mistakes anyway). The amount of one-on-ones that Kewell just willed himself to win, after Engelaar was sent off, was just amazing.
For those asking about top six and whatever, the simple answer is 'don't expect it'. We're on 12 points now, with 10 games to go. Last year, sixth place finished on 32 points (and got in on goal difference). The year before, it was 37. So essentially, we're going to need at least 20 points to be anywhere near it (five wins/five draws, six wins/two draws/two losses, or better).
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It's not really a big money item, but I would like to see an independent website and a decent one, rather than those shitty template sites all the teams have now.
Was discussing this the other day. Do we still have to use the approved FFA format? Or have we just not updated?
no idea. I'm assuming we have to use the FFA format, but also wouldn't be surprised if we just haven't updated it.
Some AFL clubs use the standard template and some use their own thing. The issue with that is if we were to go down our own path, we'd have to make sure that we have enough content to justify it at all times. Shouldn't be a problem, if we fill any gaps with a weekly MC, NYC and perhaps a Storm wrap during the winter. The thing about those template sites is that either the league or the club can add whatever league related stories are on the main website with the click of a button and with the templates, they're simple enough that pretty much anyone at the club would be able to add content, after taking a one hour training course.
For me, number one is a training base that is instantly the best in the A-League, or at least as good as anything anyone else has got. I want an Australian U23 marquee player. I want to make a big splash with an international marquee signing; a guy who makes everyone sit up and say 'Yep, that's one of the best recruits in the history of the A-League.' Not sure if that would mean the end of Engelaar; hopefully we could retain him, if he continues to find touch for the rest of the season. And I want Kewell to stay on.
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If city just wanted a licence, i have no doubt the FFA would have sold them one for a nice fee.
They bought the club, not just the licence
What do we have that is of interest to them?
7000 members, a community base that is spread far and wide & a premium home stadium
7000 members is not a lot. Being the global powerhouse I am sure they will have no trouble attracting 7000 people.
A community base spread far and wide- I am not really sure what you mean by this.
Its not our stadium.
We do have Melbourne. It's debatable whether Manchester City would have been interested in buying a club that wasn't based in Melbourne or Sydney. And we have huge potential for growth, if our club ever becomes a consistent power in the league, far more than Sydney FC and Victory, who are already well-established and West Sydney, which has boxed itself in to an extent, by basing itself specifically in the western part of the city (which is why we sold for more than they did).
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It needs to done in consultation with fans because there is a real pressing desire from the fanbase to see changes, not because the new owners want us to fit in with the foreign identity of some European club.
If the talk and assumptions are wrong then the Club will quickly bring out a statement to allay the Supporters fears (In fact even Munn himself has done this a few times in the past.)
Yet all we hearing is complete silence - Even after Lynch wrote an article about our fears on the specfic issue.
Yeah, I'm struggling to work it out. The owners offered a statement saying the will listen and left it at that, which seems fair enough. But the other messages coming from FFA and the unquestioned media reports etc, and the lack of response/clarification is concerning me too.
The Lynch articles could quite easily have been done at MH's instigation, just to fly it up the flagpole and see what response they get. Which has been overwhelmingly that the red and white stripes should be retained. We'll find out in due course, but don't expect anything beyond rumours/speculation until the end of the season, as the City group has said that no big decisions will be made until then.
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No reason?
Sidwell's disconnecting himself from the issue and the FFA's positive comments towards such a move are two reasons.
What evidence do we have that the colours will be protected?
PPL on a forum saying we should not panic, or that they have hunchs... nothing from the FFA, City or the Media to calm the masses.
The reality is this new club is going to be far more Manchester City than it is Melbourne Heart... and although I will probably support the team I wont be putting in the hours that I did for Heart.
I'm not sure what else Sidwell could have done. Sure, it would have been nice for him to secure a guarantee from the new owners, but he's just made $5-6 million on the sale...I'm pretty sure he would have been keen to keep them as happy as possible, which may have just mean it wasn't discussed at all. And now that it's not his team, he can't guarantee anything.
As for the FFA, who knows? Gallop straight-batted the question and I'm not sure how else he could have handled it.
I agree, it's a distinct possibility (anyone who thinks it isn't is kidding themselves, in my opinion) and I would be hopeful that as a minimum, the stripes are retained as an away kit (though red and white at home and sky blue away is by far my preferred scenario), though it won't be a deal breaker for me. But the statements by Sidwell and Gallop really don't mean anything, in and of themselves. Until the Man City group starts talking about it, I think it's just speculation.
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I really don't care about the other codes or cross promotion or any of that peripheral crap.
Winning will bring the crowds. People say look at Brisbane they have played well and crowds have not increased... well that's because it's Brisbane dammit.
I'm sorry but I don't want any "cross" promotion with other codes. They can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.
That's fine, but as far as I'm concerned, the people who feel that same way aren't losing anything be the club exploring such initiatives. No-one would be holding a gun to their heads. But for people like me who pretty much love all sports, it would probably be the kick in the bum I need to get along to a few Storm games, when they don't clash with my AFL team - and support our new part-owners. I think our city, for the most part, respects a sporting club that embraces other clubs that others might see as a rival for our attention. Especially the Storm, whose season doesn't clash with ours. Better to extend the hand of friendship, I say.
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City has publicly stated the desire to get Heart to be a regular participant in the ACL. Assuming they are looking to invest elsewhere in Asia, I think it's reasonable to assume that they are well and truly on top of this and if they end up owning two teams in Asia that are good enough to qualify, they'll do what is necessary to ensure that both are allowed to play.
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watched the game live then had to go back to bed for some kip!
Impressions:
- better standard then I expected (sorry if this sounds patronising, its not meant to be);
- Kewell really put a shift in - impressed;
- Really important to recognise that Heart came from behind to take the lead away from home- credit deserved for that;
- last minute goals always a risk - I think Heart sat back after scoring and invited pressure. Knowing when to control possession is also part of this;
- Engelaar needs to dominate midfield more - I assume he's getting back into match fitness, but he needs to bully the other midfield when fit;
- Mifsud didnt impress - ignoring the 'miss' before the penalty, he didnt seem to make runs to anticipate balls, often just standing there to see where the ball ended up - as a result, he was often behind defenders;
- Felt sorry for Behich - clearly lacking confidence and this affected him I think.
Next game on TV is Vs Sydney at 8:30 am next week - I'll be up for that cheering on my new second club!
keep the faith guys, things are looking better.
Awesome post. Not sure how much research you've done on the club/league, but the bolded is especially important. Unless I'm very much mistaken, Heart managed to salvage exactly one point from that position throughout Aloisi's entire tenure (one and a half years). While this result wasn't ideal and a bit disappointing, it should be remembered that we've now got four points after giving away the first goal in the past two weeks. The team is starting to show a bit of resilience.
And it is sad to watch Mifsud and Behich at the moment; two blokes who are just absolutely bereft of confidence.
Kewell must be retained.
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I´d worry about higher prices when you lot start worrying about getting a ticket at all.. So much easier to increase revenue by attracting people to watch games at this stage eh?
Yep, the old supply/demand concept. I think it would be ridiculous for them to even entertain the prospect of prices being raised, until we get enough through the gate that we actually have people sitting on the top level for non-derby games at AAMI.
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Memberships went on sale June 5th 2013 with the season kicking off on October 11th.
Hmmm...May's not great timing then.
Oh well...
I don't know about others, but I felt at the time that was far too early to start memberships. We hardly had a squad at that stage. Just from the football side of things I would have thought August is quite early enough to start the membership drive. An early-bird discount tied in with the City game would also be good.
Agreed. I think sporting clubs that start flogging memberships before the ins and outs have been pretty much finalised and before the fixture has been released are usually just being greedy and/or keen to get in a dick measuring contest to say they've got X amount of members by <date in the preseason>.
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Thoughtful comments SF33. For comparison with AFL club membership WB have about 28,000 members whilst at the other end Collingwood has about 78,000. So For Victory with about 22,000 its not too bad. Heart has a long way to go but as I mentioned in another post, people are not going to turn up to watch crap. So the potential is there.
Also last season they tried cross promotion with T20 but given that this was discontinued this season I can only presume that it was a fizzer.
True. No-one can really put shit on the Victory for the club's membership/attendance figures, but I was more getting at the fact that Melbourne is still a hugely untapped resource, despite what they would like us to believe. Less than one person in every 100 living in Greater Melbourne is a member of either club. And with the AFL example, we can see by the regular five-year fluctuations in membership figures (I think Richmond has doubled in the past five years and is going to smash last year's record tally in 2014), that people will get on board a winner. If we're aiming for 20,000 within the next five years, Victory should be aiming for 30-35,000, in my opinion.
I do remember crossing the bridge to go to the MCG following a Heart game last season (think it was Stars v Renegades), but I'm an MCC member, so didn't remember if there was a discount involved or not. Definitely worth another crack, now that the club will surely be kicking it up a gear (or several). I think it would make sense to schedule them the other way around (since you'd get 40-50k to the cricket - especially Stars v Renegades - and if just 5k of those figured 'what the hell?' and had a look at AAMI Park, that would be massive for us, but if the same percentage of a regular Heart crowd kicked on to the cricket, it would barely be noticeable. Problem being, the BBL obviously likes playing its games at night.
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as long as the don't keep ending everything with #believe. Nothing is worse than when you haven't won for about 2 years and they end everything with just #believe ARGH !!!!
It's on every email and tweet etc.
with the new training facilities that are about to open in the summer at City, ADUG were at an advantage building close to the stadium due to the fact the immediate area was so run down . the land was virtually derelict even after the commonwealth games were held there, the local council were happy to give planning permission for the project, it does seem that ADUG like brown sites that can be redeveloped into new use and also benefit the local residents ie.. jobs better living conditions etc etc in fact i think there was clauses given to the developers and builders that a percentage of local
people had to be employed on the project , oh yea get used to the word project, that is the word that is the cornerstone of everything !!! Anything to do with what is going on at our clubs is wrapped up in the title " the project " its not meant or used in a derogatory term its just the phrase that encompasses everything that is happening .
Yes, and they're still doing it. It's so juvenile and a dreadful turn-off. That's why I want new administrative staff to come in and start treating supporters and potential supporters like adults.
I'm not a big fan of marketing departments, believe me, but I sort of feel sorry for ours, given the substandard product we've been putting out. It can't be fun to have to go through the level of vitriol that's directed at them on Facebook every time they post something, following a loss and our players would have rarely given them an easy week in-season, over the past year. They're really on a hiding to nothing. They can either keep putting the #believe stuff out and look a bit stupid, or stop putting it out and give the impression that those on the inside of the club have given up on the season. And I acknowledge that it looks stupid at the moment, but if the goal is still to push for the top six, as has been stated (prior to Sidwell leaving, but I'm sure they're still sticking with it), they don't really have a choice.
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It is not that strange considering how young the A League is and not everyone having a connection to a NSL club.
Then consider your pearants are from a different country, in your ear about the homeland.
I have been following Hannover96 (RIP Enke) for most of my life, the Heart is my first Australian team.
So...not that strange.
Yeah, should have mentioned that a family link is also fair enough, of course.
Orlando Engelaar
in Melbourne City
Posted
Not ashamed to say that I've really got no idea what the story is with Garcia leaving. Once Heart's season finished, I switched to AFL-mode, heard about the huge signings and the major exodus of Fred/Bolton/Thompson/Colosimo and assumed Garcia would be with us in 2013/14. Then when the squad was finalised and I looked at the ins and outs, he wasn't there. Shit happens. Anyway, I'll always respect how he played for the side last year and don't hold any ill-will towards him.