Round 3: Sydney FC - 7:50pm AEST - AAMI Park

[Mr MO]

Just now, haz said:

Do people forget Bruno saving our arses only a few weeks ago in the FFA cup?

He was also the reason we got knocked out.

[n i k o]

8 minutes ago, haz said:

Do people forget Bruno saving our arses only a few weeks ago in the FFA cup?

I think there's some reason for concern given our lack of creative outlet in the team and the double teaming and triple teaming tactics of other teams. I'm not off him. I'm just starting to wonder his effectiveness for us when all factors are taken into consideration. 

Edited November 3, 2018 by n i k o

[haz]

8 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I think there's some reason for concern given our lack of creative outlet in the team and the double teaming and triple teaming tactics of other teams. I'm not off him. I'm just starting to wonder his effectiveness for us when all factors are taken into consideration. 

Give him someone who can play him balls and he will be better

[playmaker]

The problem is not Bruno, it is the way we play.

We had no system that worked, no flexibility and no second option.

Even if Bruno was at his best, I don't think the outcome would have been any different.

[haz]

28 minutes ago, playmaker said:

The problem is not Bruno, it is the way we play.

We had no system that worked, no flexibility and no second option.

Even if Bruno was at his best, I don't think the outcome would have been any different.

Take last season as an example. Majority of the time Ross was saving our arse due to his dead ball skills. Then once Arzani came in we started making more chances in open play because of the attention that defenders had to give to Arzani, hence more spaces  were created elsewhere on the pitch.

[n i k o]

1 hour ago, haz said:

Give him someone who can play him balls and he will be better

Been waiting 2 years and 6 months for that. Still waiting. 

[hakz7]

Before Arzani broke through last season, we were playing the same boring, slow football. The only signing this season that could have provided the pace and creativity that left with him was O’Halloran and we replaced him with another holding midfielder when he got injured.

So, expect plenty of performances like this. They obviously won’t all result in losses but there’ll be no flair or directness in attack. We don’t have a winger who can run at defenders with intent nor do we have a striker who’ll be running in behind defences to threaten teams. Not a knock on Bruno, he just needs players than can run beyond him to make it tough for oppositions to deal with and when that’s not present, we’re out of ideas.

I was scratching my head at all the posts in pre-season claiming we have an amazing squad. There’s no distinct attacking quality in any of the new signings. Having depth (which we only have in defense) doesn’t mean anything if the first team isn’t even good. I’m already considering not attending next week but I’ll end up going and regretting it as usual lol.

[mattyh001]

34 minutes ago, haz said:

Take last season as an example. Majority of the time Ross was saving our arse due to his dead ball skills. Then once Arzani came in we started making more chances in open play because of the attention that defenders had to give to Arzani, hence more spaces  were created elsewhere on the pitch.

that for me was the single greatest issue last night. we have no players in the midfield / wide positions that can alter a game on a dime with a turn or dribble at an opponent.

Bruno at his best had Novillo wide doing his thing. 

Mooy was there too with his passing range by all means, but to an extent we have the likes of Bratten and McGree who can (at least somewhat) hit a pass. 

So while the club has tried to replace Mooy's passing, they still haven't bothered with replacing what Novillo brought.  The nearest we have been was with Fernando Brandon, who was unfortunate with that injury. No others.

[Chris p]

We have to see najjarane next week surely, we desperately need a winger with some flare 

[Jimmy]

I have eight years of membership and have been going to games from the very start - attended far more frequently early on - as well as having been to games overseas and watching our national team. I can confidently say the was easily the most boring game I have attended. It was probably close to our worst performance as well.

It was so horribly bad that I experienced a sort of schadenfreude. Seeing thousands of people stream out of the stadium long before the final whistle went was hilarious. 

This club is a joke. Munn needs to be sacked. That man’s fine stewardship has seen us only make negligible inroads at best in regard to attendance and performance. It’s been nine years and we have outstanding resources now. There cannot be anymore excuses. Do it now or risk being made even more irrelevant by a third Melbourne side. 

[NewConvert]

20 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Every time a player is double-teamed  it means we must have a spare man. Joyce should have done what you say, but he isn't on the field and he can't do everything. Our players just aren't smart enough to adapt to the circumstances of the game. And you just can't wait until half-time to change things. The double-teamed man has to lay the ball off, not try to beat the whole defence single-handed. Several of our players were guilty of the latter - Berenguer, De Laet, Bruno, McGree to name a few.

Everyone knows how we play, but worse than that, everyone knows the mentality of CFG, our club, our manager and our players. Even in injury time we were playing the same boring, slow and ineffective way.

IMO it's not actually losing a match that pisses people off. It's not that we have not won a League trophy. It's not that we're not in the ACL. It's that we keep doing the same thing over and over again and it isn't working.

You are quite right that Joyce is not in the field. But I wonder given that Joyce was brought in to "discipline" and add "steel" to the group what happens if players take the initiative to do something different? I think that they will find themselves in an alternative universe or Perth Glory. Wazza reminds me of another Joyce - the AFL's Alan Joyce who took over Hawthorn when Jeans was out with illness and won flags. Then he went to the Doggies and guess what he was crap - as Brereton said it was his way or the highway.

So my doubts about Joyce remain.

[neio]

7 hours ago, Chris p said:

We have to see najjarane next week surely, we desperately need a winger with some flare 

I will be staggered if he comes in next week

Joyce hates it when players go away and miss training. Arzani first half of last season, even mcgree before the Derby 

[CityHeart]

Id suggest Joyce wake up and start thinking long and hard about this season.

He fell out of an ar*e  last season where he dour cr@p was 'saved' by two things - 1. a honeymoon season whereby the whole league was down - very ordinary season & 2. Arzani arrived. 

This season, most teams have their sh*t together and frankly, on paper I can not see how we make finals with our squad. In fact, Im not even sure we go close unless something dramatically changes which history tells this club or coach wont do. 3 very very poor games to start the season. By rights, should only have a point at this stage so that is a bonus.

[kingofhearts]

I knew this club would go to shit the minute we let Manny muscat walk

[playmaker]

And another thing, can someone please show these players how to take and set up for set pieces, as they have been poor and getting worse every since Ross left.

Seriously we show no threat at all from a dead ball.

[HEARTinator]

Well, it just seems like a rerun of the JVS crap. It's the players fault, they're too timid, afraid to play, blah, blah, blah. You know Mr Joyce, it's all about the preparation and the mindset you build up during the week that you take with you onto the park.

When Wazza states "That [intent] is something we addressed this week. The word was used before the game tonight so that makes it disappointing because that was one of the things we talked about in the build up to the game." and the players fail to deliver that means they're not listening to him.

 

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/joyce-lashes-city-s-intent-as-corica-beams-with-sydney-pride-20181102-p50dqw.html

Joyce hints at line-up changes as Corica beams with Sydney pride

By Anthony Colangelo

Amid Melbourne Victory's off-season recruitment splurge Melbourne City chose to talk up the considerable depth in their squad.

That depth could be called into action for their next match against Wellington Phoenix on Friday, after the dismal way in which the first 11 performed in the 3-0 loss to Sydney FC earlier this weekend.

Warren Joyce's side looked sluggish against a disciplined and clinical Sydney outfit that waited to pounce on mistakes and then punished their opposition with efficient attacking play, with goals coming via former City player Paolo Retre and a double to striker Adam Le Fondre.

Joyce said after the game that in training this week he would be on the look out for players who want to "come in and want to fight to get into the team for next weekend".

"We will dust ourselves down, work hard, come back next week and try and move forward and put in a good performance next weekend," he said.

Right-back Nathaniel Atkinson is available again after Young Socceroos duty and he could be an option to come into the side in place of Harrison Delbridge, with Richie De Laet possibly moving into central defence. Iacopo La Rocca could also return for Delbridge.

Rostyn Griffiths has been used off the bench thus far but City could do with his drive and steel in midfield, with Kearyn Baccus and Luke Brattan the ones who could make way.

Pacy winger Lachlan Wales also has a good case to get another start, as does attacking midfielder Anthony Caceras.

Bruno Fornaroli, who is yet to score a goal this season, is playing well but in the Sydney loss it was clear he lacked support up top. Wales would be handy playing off him.

Sydney's goals came via a mistake for the first and poor transitional play for the next two, Joyce said, with the coach bemoaning his side's lack of spark.

"It is not [poor] effort when you have got a lot of possession," Joyce said. "I think the intent to close and press could have been better all night. I think the intent to win tackles and win duels could be better, the intent to run in behind could be better.

"It is the intent to do it, but when you have got a lot of the ball you have got to move it quicker, you have got to have intent to get on the ball, work hard ... because they [Sydney] didn't really have to press that hard, we give the ball away cheap and then we're chasing them.

"That [intent] is something we addressed this week. The word was used before the game tonight so that makes it disappointing because that was one of the things we talked about in the build up to the game."

Opposition coach Steve Corica was delighted with his side's win, especially given it was their third game in seven days after round two's Sydney Derby and Tuesday's FFA Cup final loss to Adelaide United.

"It's been a tough week for them," Corica said. "But a great way to bounce back ... perfect they were. Maybe they [City] had one shot on target but other than that they didn't have anything else.

"They were disappointed after the [FFA] cup [final] but they bounced back extremely well. The next day we got them out [of Adelaide] and I spoke to them after the cup game, I thought we were the best team in the cup game."

Corica praised Retre for his assist and a goal and also said La Fondre was proving to be a formidable striker. The coach named an unchanged starting side in all three games played in the seven-day run.

"We are going to get better, it is early in the season so I think as combinations come ... we are going to get better. We are not right there at the moment but a great performance tonight and I am very proud of them after a difficult week.

"It's not easy [the packed schedule]. If you look at the Wanderers game it is a little bit emotional as well for the players, it's a derby they give everything ... to back it up against Tuesday night in Adelaide away is difficult enough.

"They worked extremely hard, stuck to the game plan and we got the goals that we deserved."

Sydney play Newcastle at Hunter Stadium on Saturday in round four while Melbourne City play at home to Wellington Phoenix on Friday night.

[RedAndWhitePride]

11 hours ago, Jimmy said:

I have eight years of membership and have been going to games from the very start - attended far more frequently early on - as well as having been to games overseas and watching our national team. I can confidently say the was easily the most boring game I have attended. It was probably close to our worst performance as well.

It was so horribly bad that I experienced a sort of schadenfreude. Seeing thousands of people stream out of the stadium long before the final whistle went was hilarious. 

This club is a joke. Munn needs to be sacked. That man’s fine stewardship has seen us only make negligible inroads at best in regard to attendance and performance. It’s been nine years and we have outstanding resources now. There cannot be anymore excuses. Do it now or risk being made even more irrelevant by a third Melbourne side. 

It's going to be so funny when a third Melbourne side comes in and completely overshadows this franchise within about two seconds of existing.

 

12,000 at the game definitely says there's interest in the sport. They're not going to support mediocrity, not in Melbourne. 

[belaguttman]

20 hours ago, n i k o said:

I think there's some reason for concern given our lack of creative outlet in the team and the double teaming and triple teaming tactics of other teams. I'm not off him. I'm just starting to wonder his effectiveness for us when all factors are taken into consideration. 

Can you think of another striker who can perform better when double or triple teamed and given poor service?

[Dylan]

2 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Can you think of another striker who can perform better when double or triple teamed and given poor service?

Oh Ross McCormack obviously 

[n i k o]

13 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Can you think of another striker who can perform better when double or triple teamed and given poor service?

Nope I can't. But I can think of another striker better suited for the system and players we currently have around him and it isn't Bruno. 

 

I'l say it again. Bruno is a legend and is still one of the top strikers in the league (when on form). I'm still behind him but things need to change if he is to reach his potential again this season. Because if they don't he'll be as useful as Kenny for the tards at this rate. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by n i k o

[haz]

1 hour ago, n i k o said:

Nope I can't. But I can think of another striker better suited for the system and players we currently have around him and it isn't Bruno. 

 

I'l say it again. Bruno is a legend and is still one of the top strikers in the league (when on form). I'm still behind him but things need to change if he is to reach his potential again this season. Because if they don't he'll be as useful as Kenny for the tards at this rate. 

I'd love to see Najjar be given 10 mins at the end of a game, just to see what he's got againt seniors.

[jw1739]

19 minutes ago, haz said:

I'd love to see Najjar be given 10 mins at the end of a game, just to see what he's got againt seniors.

Throw the dice. Play 4-2-4 with two up front.

[n i k o]

3 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Throw the dice. Play 4-2-4 with two up front.

And the game with it

[icantthinkofacoolname]

13 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Throw the dice. Play 4-2-4 with two up front.

Joyce would never even dream of going that attacking

[haz]

On a positive note, we had the highest crowd of the round.

4th highest City/Heart non-derby crowd. The other 3 were the ADP and Villa games.

Edited November 4, 2018 by haz

[playmaker]

3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Throw the dice. Play 4-2-4 with two up front.

We could play a 442 diamond quite easily with the players we have and still overlap our full backs. 

With Baccus, Brattan, Florin and Griffiths in the middle it doesn't look half bad to be honest.

[Inchcolm]

9 minutes ago, playmaker said:

We could play a 442 diamond quite easily with the players we have and still overlap our full backs. 

With Baccus, Brattan, Florin and Griffiths in the middle it doesn't look half bad to be honest.

It is the only solution with so many 4s, 8s and 10s in the team. So we will continue to play 4:2:3:1 or 4:3:3 

[mus-28]

Perth looking the goods with a 3-5-2/5-3-2 and doing it without Castro so far, Ikonomidis has a pretty free role to create, which would be perfect for McGree. Just a shame we don't have a genuine 2nd striker because we could genuinely cause havoc with the opposition centre backs having to play 1 on 1 against Bruno

Birighitti

De Laet - Bort - Delbridge

Atkinson - - - - - - - - - - - - - Jamieson

Brattan - McGree - Griffiths

Vidosic - Bruno

[Dylan]

30 minutes ago, mus-28 said:

Perth looking the goods with a 3-5-2/5-3-2 and doing it without Castro so far, Ikonomidis has a pretty free role to create, which would be perfect for McGree. Just a shame we don't have a genuine 2nd striker because we could genuinely cause havoc with the opposition centre backs having to play 1 on 1 against Bruno

Birighitti

De Laet - Bort - Delbridge

Atkinson - - - - - - - - - - - - - Jamieson

Brattan - McGree - Griffiths

Vidosic - Bruno

Couldnt agree more.

But since Wazza was brought in to 'change the culture' and it seems like they used that as the only pre requisite and didnt think we needed anyone brought anyone in with some tactical awareness. In fact I would still be surprised if CFG had anything to do with this hire. Surely they wouldnt be so simplistic to go, 'lets go get one of those old school make em run hard coaches to make us feel better' but who knows really

 

 

[CityBoyz]

1 hour ago, Dylan said:

Couldnt agree more.

But since Wazza was brought in to 'change the culture' and it seems like they used that as the only pre requisite and didnt think we needed anyone brought anyone in with some tactical awareness. In fact I would still be surprised if CFG had anything to do with this hire. Surely they wouldnt be so simplistic to go, 'lets go get one of those old school make em run hard coaches to make us feel better' but who knows really

 

 

Brian Marwood one of the CFG hierarchy chose WJ

Edited November 5, 2018 by CityBoyz

[Dylan]

6 minutes ago, CityBoyz said:

Brian Marwood one of the CFG hierarchy chose WJ

Sure, thats what is said in public. 

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, Dylan said:

Couldnt agree more.

But since Wazza was brought in to 'change the culture' and it seems like they used that as the only pre requisite and didnt think we needed anyone brought anyone in with some tactical awareness. In fact I would still be surprised if CFG had anything to do with this hire. Surely they wouldnt be so simplistic to go, 'lets go get one of those old school make em run hard coaches to make us feel better' but who knows really

I would be astonished if they didn't. IMO it is CFG who call all the shots at Melbourne City. Munn, Petrillo, Joyce etc. are just puppets who do as they're told. Even our style of play is dictated by CFG.

[rayv36]

Bolts pretty much reflects this forum;

Bolton calls for Melbourne City inquest after "lacklustre" Sydney defeat

Former Socceroos goalkeeper Clint Bolton has called for a major inquest into Melbourne City Football Club that goes beyond the players and the coaching staff.

City slumped to a 3-0 defeat against Sydney FC on Friday night in a flat and uninspiring performance in front of the home faithful at AAMI Park.

Bolton, who has been critical of the club's transfer policy during the offseason, hinted that the root of City's problems lies with the City Football Group and their ownership style model.

“It’s a pattern that has emerged in my recent memory of Melbourne City, it’s nothing new,” Bolton told SEN Afternoons.

“What they’ve got to do is something different to what they’ve done over previous years. For me, there’s a whole dissection needed of that organisation, that’s my view.

“Too often we talk about surface level issues around the squad, what’s happening with these players, we might look at the coach and see what’s going on there, but it’s a pattern that’s happened across all squads and all coaches.

“For me, if I was serious at Melbourne City, I’d start dissecting what’s going on and trying to get to the real root of the issues there.”

ARE MELBOURNE CITY LACKING AMBITION?

The fact the Sky Blues were able to sweep City aside coming off a three-day break should be alarming for everyone involved at the club, according to Bolton.

“I can’t get my head around Melbourne City’s approach to the game whatsoever,” Bolton said.

“It was lacklustre, you’d think they would put them under a heap of pressure early to physically test them because of three games in six days.

“They didn’t and it was way too comfortable for Sydney FC.”

City will look to bounce back when they take on Wellington at AAMI Park on Friday night.

[Dylan]

What is one constant that has been with Heart and continued through with City?

 

Anyway, we can only hope CFG are keeping their powder dry until the Aleague is independent. Not sure if that is wishful thinking or not.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Dylan

[playmaker]

Again I repeat, the elephant in the room is Munn and Petrillo.

Drain the swamp.

Should have been done 2 seasons ago.

[jw1739]

14 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Again I repeat, the elephant in the room is Munn and Petrillo.

Drain the swamp.

Should have been done 2 seasons ago.

Clint Bolton has an axe to grind with Melbourne City, but I doubt too many will disagree with him in this case.

Unfortunately, I doubt very much that either Munn or Petrillo will be leaving any time soon, and if CFG continue to own Melbourne City then I also doubt that their removal would make any difference to how the club is run. In fact I suspect that we would see them replaced by clones who would continue to do exactly as they are told by Manchester and Abu Dhabi.

The problem is that in any multi-tentacled organisation, the focus is always on the operation deemed to be the jewel in the crown. In this case, Manchester City. No-one in CFG really cares a toss about Melbourne. We're a feeder club at best, and also a convenient location to conduct various businesses in Asia - the latter now far less important now that CFG has a minority shareholding by Chinese interests.

A core problem for football globally is allowing multi-club ownership. IMO it is a blight on the game and FIFA ought to act to prevent it. 

[belaguttman]

22 hours ago, n i k o said:

Nope I can't. But I can think of another striker better suited for the system and players we currently have around him and it isn't Bruno. 

 

I'l say it again. Bruno is a legend and is still one of the top strikers in the league (when on form). I'm still behind him but things need to change if he is to reach his potential again this season. Because if they don't he'll be as useful as Kenny for the tards at this rate. 

I agree completely with that.

[Torn Asunder]

CFG have always said they’d only spend commensurate to their return in this league. Their biggest failure is they just haven’t been able to deal with grand leveller, the salary cap. Also, as they’ve run us on a budget, they have never really got us a genuine marquee or even a coach with experience. There are things we clearly lead the league in, it’s just friggin disappointing to us long suffering fans that it’s never been our main team.

i do think part of our pain is them acting out of spite to the FFA, by not spending big on players. But the salary cap really does make it hard, with no wiggle room if you sign a dud, or to get genuine overseas talent to come out for more than 1 season.

With no salary cap, and a seemingly genuine desire to qualify for Asia, I think next season  they’ll start throwing the cheque book around ... perhaps even January, if we start seeing some cap restrictions lifted.

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Torn Asunder

[belaguttman]

48 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Clint Bolton has an axe to grind with Melbourne City, but I doubt too many will disagree with him in this case.

Unfortunately, I doubt very much that either Munn or Petrillo will be leaving any time soon, and if CFG continue to own Melbourne City then I also doubt that their removal would make any difference to how the club is run. In fact I suspect that we would see them replaced by clones who would continue to do exactly as they are told by Manchester and Abu Dhabi.

The problem is that in any multi-tentacled organisation, the focus is always on the operation deemed to be the jewel in the crown. In this case, Manchester City. No-one in CFG really cares a toss about Melbourne. We're a feeder club at best, and also a convenient location to conduct various businesses in Asia - the latter now far less important now that CFG has a minority shareholding by Chinese interests.

A core problem for football globally is allowing multi-club ownership. IMO it is a blight on the game and FIFA ought to act to prevent it. 

Perhaps he does, that doesn't prevent him from being correct in this instance though. 

[playmaker]

8 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Perhaps he does, that doesn't prevent him from being correct in this instance though. 

He pretty much reflected what we have been discussing here since the game anyway.

He is no bigger authority on the game than what we are in any case.

Everyone is scratching their head after that performance and have a rite it do so as it goes deeper than just a pathetic on the pitch performance.

Something underlying is definitely broken.

Edited November 5, 2018 by playmaker