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A-League Expansion


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3 minutes ago, Dylan said:

It seems like the main criteria were... A stadium and how much you were willing to pay for a licence.

 

Except for South Melbourne whom everyone knows talks sooo much shit its not funny, has a few loud supporters of the 500 that turn up each week and has a terrible stadium which is a pain in the absolute ass to get too

But they would've brought in Samaras!

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11 hours ago, Dylan said:

I just dont think there is a suitable area with good PT access from every location in Melbourne. Its not how the PT of Melbourne was originally designed. 

If this suburban loop gets built (which will be 50 years away anyway) it would be a great solution but no point even considering it given the time frames we are talking.

 

I have a good place for a new eastern suburban stadium - its prime land and its close to a railway station. Due to the fact that its a former tip it can't be used for much else. 
Using Google Earth I measured a rectangle 250 x 170m. A international standard soccer pitch would be 100 x 70 so as you can see there is plenty of room for stands as well.

The ground is a little unstable having been a tip previously but that is just an engineering challenge. There would be little room for parking but access to Box Hill station is only a few blocks away and when the suburban loop is built the loop will have a station at Box Hill also.

City Group have plenty of money so could easily afford to build an expandable 20-30k stadium there. This would lock the club in as an Eastern Suburbs team and give us a point fo difference with other teams.

C'mon Eastern Melbourne FC 

cheers Peter

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Edited by TheStig
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42 minutes ago, TheStig said:

The ground is a little unstable having been a tip previously but that is just an engineering challenge.

Easier said than done

 

42 minutes ago, TheStig said:

City Group have plenty of money so could easily afford to build an expandable 20-30k stadium there.

But they arn't throwing any at us

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I suspect where the money is coming from is that it's as much a property development project as it is a football club. Build the stadium and a precinct around it on what would be dirt cheap land, with the stadium creating value for the rest of the precinct. They've chosen land near the train line, the idea there would be that state government will be forced to build a train station once there is a stadium there, creating further uplift for the precinct.

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16 hours ago, Dylan said:

It seems like the main criteria were... A stadium and how much you were willing to pay for a licence.

 

Except for South Melbourne whom everyone knows talks sooo much shit its not funny, has a few loud supporters of the 500 that turn up each week and has a terrible stadium which is a pain in the absolute ass to get too

Metro Tunnel was throwing its weight behind the South Melbourne bid. The new Anzac station  will be a stone's throw away. Granted, that would have still been a few years off, but the door seems to have been closed on that option now, surely you can't have four Melbourne teams, with only one in a 'growth' area.

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12 hours ago, TheStig said:

I have a good place for a new eastern suburban stadium - its prime land and its close to a railway station. Due to the fact that its a former tip it can't be used for much else. 
Using Google Earth I measured a rectangle 250 x 170m. A international standard soccer pitch would be 100 x 70 so as you can see there is plenty of room for stands as well.

The ground is a little unstable having been a tip previously but that is just an engineering challenge. There would be little room for parking but access to Box Hill station is only a few blocks away and when the suburban loop is built the loop will have a station at Box Hill also.

City Group have plenty of money so could easily afford to build an expandable 20-30k stadium there. This would lock the club in as an Eastern Suburbs team and give us a point fo difference with other teams.

C'mon Eastern Melbourne FC 

cheers Peter

image.thumb.png.bbbd7a7843ebbe2f0dd23c3c1c3874d5.png

 

 

 









 

Well 

A) its surrounded by residential, that increases the difficulty 10fold.

b ) There is probably a reason why it hassnt already been developed, given where it is located and that it is a former tip

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11 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Do you know who owns that land? The derelict buildings are an old brickworks.

well its funny. I find alot of people dont know this but you can just go get a copy of the title from the title office website and it will tell you haha.

I can see that changing once its more well known

 

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1 hour ago, Tesla said:

I suspect where the money is coming from is that it's as much a property development project as it is a football club. Build the stadium and a precinct around it on what would be dirt cheap land, with the stadium creating value for the rest of the precinct. They've chosen land near the train line, the idea there would be that state government will be forced to build a train station once there is a stadium there, creating further uplift for the precinct.

Maybe so. But to my mind it's a really big call, especially to put a totally greenfield bid ahead of all the others. Let's hope it works out. IMO what should have brought a new enthusiasm for the League has raised as many questions as it has provided answers.

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14 hours ago, TheStig said:

The ground is a little unstable having been a tip previously but that is just an engineering challenge. There would be little room for parking but access to Box Hill station is only a few blocks away and when the suburban loop is built the loop will have a station at Box Hill also.


image.thumb.png.bbbd7a7843ebbe2f0dd23c3c1c3874d5.png

 

 

It's possible that you mean that the Suburban Rail Loop will connect to the existing Box Hill Station (which is underground), but it sounds like you're saying that another Box Hill Station will be built, which certainly isn't in the plans at the moment. The location of several new stations as part of this project is a mystery, but the only new ones to be announced so far are Monash, Burwood, Doncaster, Bundoora and Melbourne Airport. For stations like Heidelberg, Reservoir, Box Hill, Glen Waverley, Cheltenham, Sunshine and Box Hill, it merely connects with the station that is already there, although stations like the Sunshine 'superhub' will of course need a bit of a spruce up.

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Just now, jw1739 said:

Maybe so. But to my mind it's a really big call, especially to put a totally greenfield bid ahead of all the others. Let's hope it works out. IMO what should have brought a new enthusiasm for the League has raised as many questions as it has provided answers.

Well if I'm right, the question is what happens once the whole precinct is built? They could sell all of that off and also stop investing in the club. Walk away with their profit but have a club which might not be in a too good a state. 

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Smart thinking would've been to bring in Macarthur SWS and Canberra who had existing stadiums, and then add in WMG and Team 11 in 2-3 seasons once/if they had a home ground. Can't see people from Geelong getting out to support a team that will up and leave in 3 years an hour down the road and can't see too many travelling to Geelong to play at an AFL oval for 3 years.

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No doubt it’ll be a tough slog for at least the first five or so years for WMG but it really was now or never. If it didn’t get up this phase, the land and opportunity was gone. That and the fact that the group have promised to fund their own stadium are the reasons this got up. 

Team 11 will come in next phase with certainty regarding their stadium. 

I think, on balance, it’s the right call for the long term. We need to be worrying about what this league will look like in 20 years, not just next year. 

I still don’t see the staggered inclusion, and the order, as very wise but I’m sure WSW pushed FFA pretty hard on delaying SWS. 

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13 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Would we fill Epping? 

Capacity 10,000 (generous estimate I'd say). Seats for less than 1000, concrete terraces one side, the rest grass banks.  Facilities (e.g. toilets) dreadful and would need significant upgrading.

Went there a few times for pre-seasons. Such a shit place to get to. PT just about non-existent. Nobody living south of the Yarra would dream of going there.

Might as well play at Thornbury if you're going to consider Epping.

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Michael Lynch on his FB page explains the WM deal with Wyndham council:

Its all about the property, residential and commercial, which investors hope will pay for the new stadium and the club's operating costs. And some more..Good explainer from Kate Roffey, self described ''director of deals'' for Wyndham council who have gifted the land to the West Melbourne Group in return for what it hopes will be a major payback in regenerating the area.

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IMO WesternMelbourneTarneitGeelong United will be the A-League's biggest mistake so far. I would have thought that FFA would have steered clear of another club founded on predictions as Heart was. 

What's more, I suspect that they have effectively torpedoed Team11 - I doubt that Melbourne can support a fourth club. Team11 should have said they would play out of AAMI on an interim basis - even subsidising travel for their members. As it is I suspect they have lost out permanently.

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10 hours ago, jw1739 said:

IMO WesternMelbourneTarneitGeelong United will be the A-League's biggest mistake so far. I would have thought that FFA would have steered clear of another club founded on predictions as Heart was. 

What's more, I suspect that they have effectively torpedoed Team11 - I doubt that Melbourne can support a fourth club. Team11 should have said they would play out of AAMI on an interim basis - even subsidising travel for their members. As it is I suspect they have lost out permanently.

Depends if Team11 was like SEX or WM which was 90% about developing and selling land

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IIRC, in the announcement of Western Melbourne and South-Western Sydney, the new FFA Chairman said that there would be further announcements "in a week's time."

I assumed that these might include an independent league and the future of Wellington Phoenix.

Have there been any further announcements, and if so, what were they?

Edited by jw1739
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...
2 hours ago, Tommykins said:

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/overseas-investors-threaten-to-back-out-unless-canberra-guaranteed-next-a-league-spot

Difficult to say too much about them at this point but will be interesting how many of the bids that missed out on this round of expansion hang around for the next one.

They will get a license. It's either going to be Wellington's license or a new one. 

It just depends whether FFA or the new, independent A-League want a NZ presence or not.

Fox won't stand in the way of a Canberra bid now.

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4 hours ago, Tommykins said:

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/overseas-investors-threaten-to-back-out-unless-canberra-guaranteed-next-a-league-spot

Difficult to say too much about them at this point but will be interesting how many of the bids that missed out on this round of expansion hang around for the next one.

IMO FFA has stuffed this up as well. The new/revised financial model for A-League clubs was due months and months ago, and is still somewhere in the future. I wonder whether any major sporting body could sit on its hands so completely as FFA does.

Serve the league right if investors do pull out.

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  • 2 months later...
43 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

There are no good options.

Fox wouldn’t broadcast any more fixtures and we can’t play fewer than 26 plus one FFA Cup match.

Had we expanded to 14 teams, we could’ve moved to a 26-match home and away season immediately.

As the article says, it’s a necessary evil until we get to at least 14 teams.

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22 minutes ago, MCMLIII said:

Melbourne is struggling to get enough fans for 2 teams. Where are the fans going to come from for a third team?

Interesting comment. I'll go back to the proposals of the PFA when the A-League was first mooted. I haven't read the proposals in detail (can anyone point me to an on-line copy?) but IIRC their analysis suggested a maximum of three teams in Melbourne and four in Sydney. FFA is going to three teams in Melbourne even before three in Sydney. I can't help but think that this is the wrong way to go.

And the timing IMO could not be worse as far as Melbourne City is concerned. We've lost 2,500 spectators over the past two seasons, and IMO the mediocre season that we've just had will likely mean that defection to Western United will be higher than it would have been if we had been a genuine premiership contender this season.

Sydney is much better equipped than Melbourne as far as reasonable grounds are concerned, because most of their grounds are built for Rugby League and are therefore smaller and rectangular (or almost so) unlike those in Melbourne.

I don't think that FFA has thought the expansion process through, especially with respect to Melbourne.

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2 hours ago, MCMLIII said:

Melbourne is struggling to get enough fans for 2 teams. Where are the fans going to come from for a third team?

I would disagree with this. Melbourne City is struggling for fans. And the reasons are the unfulfilled promises made by CFG. Warren Joyce is the #1 culprit for decreasing the fan engagement. Going to a city match is no longer in ink on my calendar.

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45 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

I would disagree with this. Melbourne City is struggling for fans. And the reasons are the unfulfilled promises made by CFG. Warren Joyce is the #1 culprit for decreasing the fan engagement. Going to a city match is no longer in ink on my calendar.

That very first letter to us on 24th January 2014. It seemed to promise a golden age ahead. Beware of Spaniards bearing gifts.

"Dear Members and Supporters,

It was announced yesterday that Manchester City Football Club, in partnership with the ownership group of the Melbourne Storm, had successfully acquired Melbourne Heart FC.

Today, on our first full day, the work has begun to help your Club to fulfill its immense potential both on and off the field, within Australia and beyond.

A lot has been written overnight about Manchester City’s entry into Australian football, the city of Melbourne, and the Hyundai A-League. It is our view that we are at the very beginning of a significant opportunity. There is a lot to be done and we are very excited to start that work today.

The first thing we intend to do is listen, learn and better understand every aspect of the Club. In the last 24 hours, we have met with members of the Club‘s management. We have also met with John van ‘t Schip, his coaches and the players. The Director of Football at Manchester City FC, Txiki Begiristain, and the Director of the City Football Academy, Brian Marwood, have already watched their first training session.

Naturally, this process will also include hearing from fans, members and partners that have supported this Club during its short history. We want to listen and learn first, and take well-supported decisions immediately thereafter.

The one thing we already know is that we will work hard to deliver very good football. Melbourne coaches and players will have access to City’s world-class global football resources, including scouting, coaching, human performance and performance analysis. It is also expected that players and coaches from Melbourne will spend time at the City Football Academy (CFA) - a world-class facility for football training and development that will open adjacent to the Etihad Stadium in Manchester in July 2014.

I understand that many of you will have questions about the future of the Club. We are committed to sharing information with you as soon as we can. However, as I stated yesterday, out of respect for the players and coaching staff in the middle of the Hyundai A-League season, we will not be making any more major announcements until the end of the current season.

In the meantime, we should all ensure that the team on the pitch enjoys all of our support for a strong and successful remainder of the season.

Yours sincerely,

Ferran Soriano
CEO, Manchester City Football Club
"

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  • 2 years later...
50 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

This prediction has come true with a vengeance.

Yikes, almost two years ago to the day.

I don't want any A-League club to fail long-term (well, almost any club), especially when it revolves around crowds which is something our own club was heavily scrutinised for throughout most of our existence. But if Western United are to succeed that particular metric, imo they must:

  • Change their name to Western Melbourne, Tarneit or Wyndham United - the ambiguity created by their current name does them no favours. I understand the vague 'Western' moniker is supposed to unify Melbourne's greater west, Geelong and Ballarat all into one but the truth of the matter is, this team will one day be playing solely in Melbourne, so rip the band-aid off already and name it as such. The idea that country folk won't support a club that has 'Melbourne' in its name is just not a thing.
  • Play out of one stadium - do whatever it takes to make Knights Stadium, Whitten Oval or another western equivalent a viable short-term solution until the stadium in Tarneit is built. You cannot expect your small, developing supporter base to grow if you're playing home games in multiple stadiums in different cities, let alone two fucking home games in a row in Tasmania of all places! Give your fans a chance to build some sort of affinity with the club.
  • BUILD. THE. STADIUM. ASAP - the whole basis of the Western United bid was that they would be coming into the league and playing out of their very own stadium by the 2021-22 season. That timeline seems way off, which begs the question why they were allowed admission into the league before the likes of Wollongong, Canberra or Tasmania who would already have stadiums ready to go. I personally can't wait for Tarneit Stadium to be built as it'll finally create some genuine away days in Melbourne which will be special and superb for atmosphere, and I'm sure the few Western fans can't wait either. Build the fucking thing that you promised.

 

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13 hours ago, Nate said:

Yikes, almost two years ago to the day.

I don't want any A-League club to fail long-term (well, almost any club), especially when it revolves around crowds which is something our own club was heavily scrutinised for throughout most of our existence. But if Western United are to succeed that particular metric, imo they must:

  • Change their name to Western Melbourne, Tarneit or Wyndham United - the ambiguity created by their current name does them no favours. I understand the vague 'Western' moniker is supposed to unify Melbourne's greater west, Geelong and Ballarat all into one but the truth of the matter is, this team will one day be playing solely in Melbourne, so rip the band-aid off already and name it as such. The idea that country folk won't support a club that has 'Melbourne' in its name is just not a thing.
  • Play out of one stadium - do whatever it takes to make Knights Stadium, Whitten Oval or another western equivalent a viable short-term solution until the stadium in Tarneit is built. You cannot expect your small, developing supporter base to grow if you're playing home games in multiple stadiums in different cities, let alone two fucking home games in a row in Tasmania of all places! Give your fans a chance to build some sort of affinity with the club.
  • BUILD. THE. STADIUM. ASAP - the whole basis of the Western United bid was that they would be coming into the league and playing out of their very own stadium by the 2021-22 season. That timeline seems way off, which begs the question why they were allowed admission into the league before the likes of Wollongong, Canberra or Tasmania who would already have stadiums ready to go. I personally can't wait for Tarneit Stadium to be built as it'll finally create some genuine away days in Melbourne which will be special and superb for atmosphere, and I'm sure the few Western fans can't wait either. Build the fucking thing that you promised.

Spot On; also completely fucking obvious.

Why they thought differently beggars belief.

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